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Made in tw
Longtime Dakkanaut





At present it seems like being of greater power (a primarch) are harder to bring back than “lesser” beings, such as those Thousand Sons Rubric marines brought back to life.

Could Ynnead bring back any of the Necrons? I kinda assume that they werent nearly so powerful brfore they became robotic, and so perhaps would be easy as individuals or small groups to bring back.

How do you think such an action would pan out lore wise (what repercussions etc...)

   
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Infiltrating Broodlord





No because their Souls were consumed by the C'tan
   
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Agile Revenant Titan






Who knows? Ynnead's a very new entity with unknown powers at present.

As for how it would pan out, I'd imagine you'd get a whole host of Necrons heading out to capture her in a Tesseract Vault of some sort and force her to reanimate their population. You'd probably get more Necrons trying to hunt down the reanimated Necrontyr to dissect them and try and discover how to do it themselves.

You'd probably also get lots of Necrons capturing and dissecting Ynnari Eldar themselves to try and work out how they do it.

Sounds like a pretty cool situation with lots of opportunity for cool narratives to me

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Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Not...really.
The problem with necrons isn't just that they are dead, they don't even have bodies. Like, you have to put the soul into something after resurrecting it, right?
That's why some of them are so interested in biotransference; they want a new organic body they can put their consciousness in.
At least that's how I understand it. You'd think they would just make cyborgs, but GW gonna GW I suppose.

Also, they don't have souls. Or at least they aren't supposed to, but GW sometimes says they do, and if they don't have souls then there's no point in finding a new body, is there?
I mean, even if they do put their minds in a meatsack, nothing would really change would it? They would still be a machine, just with an inferior, transient form. Or maybe that's the point, maybe they do want to die, to free themselves from the torment of living. Contradicts their earlier motive of escaping death, hence the deal with the proverbial space devil, but one could pass that off as Irony, I suppose.

I'm probably thinking too hard about it, I don't think Ward really thought out the new lore that carefully...


Now, if Ynnead could bring them back to life, that would actually be very bad for the Necrons. Because remember, the Necrons are the Eldar's sworn enemy, and that of the Eldar gods as well.
Why is it bad? Well, you can kill them now, can't you? The necrons' greatest strength is that they can take all sorts of punishment, but they keep coming back thanks to not being able to die.
Ynnead uses pheonix down - now the necrons' are alive, and you can shoot them to death, and this time they stay dead.
In order for regaining true life to be beneficial to the necrons, it must be on their own terms. If an outside force does it before they are ready, that would be the end of them.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/03/30 15:56:16


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Agile Revenant Titan






 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I don't think Ward really thought out the new lore that carefully...


Understatement of the century when it comes to Newcrons...

Lots of imagination, I honestly can't fault that at all. Just less finesse than Oldcrons.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
In order for regaining true life to be beneficial to the necrons, it must be on their own terms. If an outside force does it before they are ready, that would be the end of them.


I think you're right here.

If the Necrons do manage to resurrect their race, I think the way that would be clever would be to resurrect a population of Necrontyr (to fulfill whatever pride it is that drives them to resurrect their race), while retaining a majority population of Necrons to defend them.

Either that or you could go even more grimdark if you like. One of the Necrons' main problems is that there can never be new Necrons (not since Pariahs were axed). They're a finite resource. The grimdark resurrection route would be they resurrect their race as livestock for repopulating their Necron armies...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/30 16:00:43


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Yvraine returned several Thousand Sons Rubric Marines to life with a wave of her hand, so I don't see why not
   
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Swift Swooping Hawk





It would be the same principle as what Yvraine did with the Rubrics, the problem is scale. The Rubrics have been like that for less than ten thousand years. The Necrons lost their bodies something like sixty million years ago.

So, I'm honestly not sure, but I lean toward yes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/30 17:21:56


 
   
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Even if its possible, I don't them the Eldar are going to be interested in helping the Necrons out. The Eldar and Necrons are ancient enemies.

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 Grey Templar wrote:
Even if its possible, I don't them the Eldar are going to be interested in helping the Necrons out. The Eldar and Necrons are ancient enemies.


Typically I would agree, but if helping the Necrons held the Eldar, then why not? When Yvraine resurrected the Rubrics, it wasn't done as a favor to the Thousand Sons, it was done to distract Ahriman, and it worked. Imagine bringing a contingent of Necrons back and the effect it would have on certain overlords. At the very least, reanimation protocals are going to have a hard time on a living organism, and I could imagine the confusion it might create with Destroyers and Flayed Ones.


   
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Infiltrating Broodlord





Ravingbantha wrote:
Yvraine returned several Thousand Sons Rubric Marines to life with a wave of her hand, so I don't see why not


Well the Difference here is that Rubics still have their soul.. Necrons Don't
   
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Liche Priest Hierophant







 Robin5t wrote:
It would be the same principle as what Yvraine did with the Rubrics, the problem is scale. The Rubrics have been like that for less than ten thousand years. The Necrons lost their bodies something like sixty million years ago.

So, I'm honestly not sure, but I lean toward yes.


The other problem is that Rubricae are souls and dust trapped in armour, while Necrons are consciousness transfered into a robotic shell.

Necrons have no soul for Yneead to manipulate, so I'd lean towards no.
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





Ravingbantha wrote:
Yvraine returned several Thousand Sons Rubric Marines to life with a wave of her hand, so I don't see why not


except it was only temporary, so did she really have that power and retract her gift (as clearly she wanted Ahriman to think) or was it trickery to play a psychalogical game with him

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Norn Queen






Rubric Marines still have their souls inside their possessed suits of armor. Necrons had their souls devoured by the C'tan. It is not the same thing.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
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 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
 Robin5t wrote:
It would be the same principle as what Yvraine did with the Rubrics, the problem is scale. The Rubrics have been like that for less than ten thousand years. The Necrons lost their bodies something like sixty million years ago.

So, I'm honestly not sure, but I lean toward yes.


The other problem is that Rubricae are souls and dust trapped in armour, while Necrons are consciousness transfered into a robotic shell.

Necrons have no soul for Yneead to manipulate, so I'd lean towards no.
What I got from that scene was more that she reality-warped the Rubrics back to their pre-rubric state than any explicit soul manipulation, I don't recall the exact quote though so I could be wrong.
   
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Agile Revenant Titan






 Lance845 wrote:
Rubric Marines still have their souls inside their possessed suits of armor. Necrons had their souls devoured by the C'tan. It is not the same thing.


Is that still the party line in the Newcron codex? I can't remember.

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Regular Dakkanaut




The Necrons don't have souls. They were devoured by the C'tan during bio-transference. My understanding is that the entire Necron race was arguably annihilated during the process, and what you have now are AI copies of their personalities that retain the memories of the Necrontyr, but are new individuals.

Essentially, any Necrontyr that entered the transference furnaces, from their perspective, died. What walked out was a copy that thought of itself as a continuation, but was in fact a new individual with implanted memories.

So no. I doubt Ynnead could. The Rubricae are souls without bodies, so all he/she/it did was regenerate their physical forms. No Necron ever had a physical form - they're just an AI routine that falsely recalls being a Necrontyr with one.

I even doubt Ynnead could ressurect many people. Most souls when they die are either consumed by a god, or claimed by another. As a young god, I doubt Ynnead could steal souls back, so their ressurection power is likely limited to those near/at the point of death, or stored souls, such as with the Rubric Marines, or Eldar in Soul Stones. As Ynnead is powered by Soul Stones though, even that would likely be something they'd be averse to doing, as it would rob them of their own power.
   
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GodDamUser wrote:
Ravingbantha wrote:
Yvraine returned several Thousand Sons Rubric Marines to life with a wave of her hand, so I don't see why not


Well the Difference here is that Rubics still have their soul.. Necrons Don't


Rubric Marines are human, which have presence in the warp. Necrontyr do not have presence in the warp. Yvraine is a warp entity borne of the Eldar who have massive psykic pressence in the warp. Yvraine may not have as much power of things that do not have presence in the warp.

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Hierophant wrote:
The Necrons don't have souls. They were devoured by the C'tan during bio-transference. My understanding is that the entire Necron race was arguably annihilated during the process, and what you have now are AI copies of their personalities that retain the memories of the Necrontyr, but are new individuals.

Essentially, any Necrontyr that entered the transference furnaces, from their perspective, died. What walked out was a copy that thought of itself as a continuation, but was in fact a new individual with implanted memories.

So no. I doubt Ynnead could. The Rubricae are souls without bodies, so all he/she/it did was regenerate their physical forms. No Necron ever had a physical form - they're just an AI routine that falsely recalls being a Necrontyr with one.

I even doubt Ynnead could ressurect many people. Most souls when they die are either consumed by a god, or claimed by another. As a young god, I doubt Ynnead could steal souls back, so their ressurection power is likely limited to those near/at the point of death, or stored souls, such as with the Rubric Marines, or Eldar in Soul Stones. As Ynnead is powered by Soul Stones though, even that would likely be something they'd be averse to doing, as it would rob them of their own power.


What an excellent way of looking at the Necrons. 'AI echoes of their former personalities'. Very grimdark

I also think you're right about Ynnead's limitations too.

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As I recall, when the Necrontyr were made in their new form, the Ctan did not eat the souls. They are creatures soley of the material realm and cannot touch the warp/souls. In the Necrontyr biotransference to their new forms their lifeforce was transferred, but their soul were cut adrift in the process. There was a feeding frenzy on in the warp as daemons feasted on the souls of an entire species (Mmm souls).

No souls, no resurrection.
   
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Tygre wrote:
As I recall, when the Necrontyr were made in their new form, the Ctan did not eat the souls. T


They did it was the entire purpose of the process
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




If I recall correctly the 3rd Edition Codex mentioned the C'tan devouring Necrontyr souls. Though with a brief flick through just now I couldn't find any mention of it.

The 5th Edition one doesn't mentioned them consuming souls. It just says that they "swarmed about the biotransference sites, drinking in the torrent of cast-off life energy and growing ever stronger".
   
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Dakka Veteran




Ward messed up the fluff pretty bad. They transferred their "conscience" into robots. IE they just had their brain's data copied into robots, so they were actually just copies, not transferred souls. They're not Eldar machinations running on soul stones. They are just (in the case of the warriors, shoddily) copied information loaded into robots. This is one of the reasons the old fluff is so much better. They were very irritated about this fact, and wanted to destroy all life because they were effectively cheated out of it. Even those who declined to be transferred were FORCED into it. This makes for some very angry AI, and a lot of them just wanted to ruin things for everything else, if they retained any sort of ability to think for themselves at all.
   
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they are not creatures of the warp so no

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Hierophant wrote:
The Necrons don't have souls. They were devoured by the C'tan during bio-transference. My understanding is that the entire Necron race was arguably annihilated during the process, and what you have now are AI copies of their personalities that retain the memories of the Necrontyr, but are new individuals.

Essentially, any Necrontyr that entered the transference furnaces, from their perspective, died. What walked out was a copy that thought of itself as a continuation, but was in fact a new individual with implanted memories.

So no. I doubt Ynnead could. The Rubricae are souls without bodies, so all he/she/it did was regenerate their physical forms. No Necron ever had a physical form - they're just an AI routine that falsely recalls being a Necrontyr with one.

I even doubt Ynnead could ressurect many people. Most souls when they die are either consumed by a god, or claimed by another. As a young god, I doubt Ynnead could steal souls back, so their ressurection power is likely limited to those near/at the point of death, or stored souls, such as with the Rubric Marines, or Eldar in Soul Stones. As Ynnead is powered by Soul Stones though, even that would likely be something they'd be averse to doing, as it would rob them of their own power.
wouldn't that basically explain nemesor zahndreks situation in the sense he has some glitch in his system which makes him unable to see the changes in reality

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