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I’m sure its possible to mod that into the game, as Regiments of Renown have that recruitment restriction.

I think Empire:Total War had the limited recruitment of elite units(in addition to the named ones) built in as well, so as to encourage taking Line Infantry.

I use a lot of first teir stuff for raids and annoyance. Run a army of say 10 clan rats 9 slaves and a random lord.

Run into enemy held land start raiding and sacking settlements. They die..... Well if they managed to kill a keep or 2 I am more then pleased. The whole army upkeep is like 300 gold lol.

Also run a assassin around beside them to lord snipe if an army comes to deal with them.

But ya my main army is mostly elites and monks. But when I was at the last ritual I had a spare army of mass clan rats only to help fight toad man. Sadly lightning strike kills the whole two army strat.

 djones520 wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
I also like the capping elite units idea. Would make things more interesting. The idea of having them cost a crap ton only really works up to a point. Once you're economy blows up, the cost of armies isn't much of a hindrance anymore.

Nah, I like my armies of nothing but swordmasters and star dragons, thank you.

That's why I suggest a max points limit to armies rather than a slot cap. You could have your army of swordmasters and star dragons, it'd just be smaller than my army of savage orcs and wolf riders, but it'd mean my savage orc and wolf rider army would still be viable late game and your swordmaster and star dragon army would still have a challenge late game instead of steam rolling everything.

One of my problems with campaign mode is 90% of battles are either far too easy or far too hard so I just auto resolve them. One of my other problems is late game the low tier units become useless in battles. Adding a points cap would go some way to helping both those issues.

Steamrolling's fun tho, if you want balanced and limited battles that's what custom battles are for

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
I also like the capping elite units idea. Would make things more interesting. The idea of having them cost a crap ton only really works up to a point. Once you're economy blows up, the cost of armies isn't much of a hindrance anymore.

Nah, I like my armies of nothing but swordmasters and star dragons, thank you.

That's why I suggest a max points limit to armies rather than a slot cap. You could have your army of swordmasters and star dragons, it'd just be smaller than my army of savage orcs and wolf riders, but it'd mean my savage orc and wolf rider army would still be viable late game and your swordmaster and star dragon army would still have a challenge late game instead of steam rolling everything.

One of my problems with campaign mode is 90% of battles are either far too easy or far too hard so I just auto resolve them. One of my other problems is late game the low tier units become useless in battles. Adding a points cap would go some way to helping both those issues.

This is also an interesting idea. Is there any real reason to continue capping army stacks at 20? The limitation existed at first as a technical limitation for field battles (in older Total War games you could never have more than 20 units on the field at once) but I think they solved that a few games ago and now you can command more than 1 army on the field at the same time.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
I also like the capping elite units idea. Would make things more interesting. The idea of having them cost a crap ton only really works up to a point. Once you're economy blows up, the cost of armies isn't much of a hindrance anymore.

Nah, I like my armies of nothing but swordmasters and star dragons, thank you.

That's why I suggest a max points limit to armies rather than a slot cap. You could have your army of swordmasters and star dragons, it'd just be smaller than my army of savage orcs and wolf riders, but it'd mean my savage orc and wolf rider army would still be viable late game and your swordmaster and star dragon army would still have a challenge late game instead of steam rolling everything.

One of my problems with campaign mode is 90% of battles are either far too easy or far too hard so I just auto resolve them. One of my other problems is late game the low tier units become useless in battles. Adding a points cap would go some way to helping both those issues.

Nice idea but it would need tweaking, Upkeep reduction is already the superior skill option to go for. This would make it effectively mandatory. Basing the unit on base price, but allowing any relevant skill to reduce the burden on the limit. So an archery skill would ease the unit burden on archers greatly while a recruitment or upkeep boost would ease the burden slightly but on everything. Or simply base max army size on level with level 40 offering about 50% more than level 1, so its mostly fair.

A good point. Maybe extend the army upkeep penalty you get for having multiple lords? Armies become more expensive the larger they become?

 Orlanth wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
I also like the capping elite units idea. Would make things more interesting. The idea of having them cost a crap ton only really works up to a point. Once you're economy blows up, the cost of armies isn't much of a hindrance anymore.

Nah, I like my armies of nothing but swordmasters and star dragons, thank you.

That's why I suggest a max points limit to armies rather than a slot cap. You could have your army of swordmasters and star dragons, it'd just be smaller than my army of savage orcs and wolf riders, but it'd mean my savage orc and wolf rider army would still be viable late game and your swordmaster and star dragon army would still have a challenge late game instead of steam rolling everything.

One of my problems with campaign mode is 90% of battles are either far too easy or far too hard so I just auto resolve them. One of my other problems is late game the low tier units become useless in battles. Adding a points cap would go some way to helping both those issues.

Nice idea but it would need tweaking, Upkeep reduction is already the superior skill option to go for. This would make it effectively mandatory. Basing the unit on base price, but allowing any relevant skill to reduce the burden on the limit. So an archery skill would ease the unit burden on archers greatly while a recruitment or upkeep boost would ease the burden slightly but on everything. Or simply base max army size on level with level 40 offering about 50% more than level 1, so its mostly fair.

It would need some tweaking because it'd be a new core mechanic.

I think the army value limit would be separate from upkeep or recruitment cost, so a reduction in upkeep wouldn't let you take a larger army, it'd just make that army cheaper to maintain. The max army size would just be based off the unit values that are currently used in multiplayer since they already put a lot of time in to balancing those. It could still have adjustments or penalties based on lord or hero skills, but I think they'd have to be balanced separately from existing upkeep/recruitment bonuses.

I don't even think it'd have to be a hard limit, maybe something you could go over but start to suffer attrition or exponentially greater upkeep. Maybe units at half strength could be worth less points so you could reinforce with fresh units to compensate for ones that are at low strength.

Just ideas, I think it's a mechanic that needs some thought but could make the mid to late game much more interesting and entertaining.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Steamrolling's fun tho, if you want balanced and limited battles that's what custom battles are for

One of the biggest things I hear is how total war campaigns are only fun for the first 50 to 100 turns when things are a challenge.

Hou could still steamroll, just take 2 armies everywhere or set the difficulty to easy.

If you are not carfull chaos can wipe you out when they spawned lol.

Also when I was skaven in tww2 and doing the last ritual I was hit with 5 armies of interventions, 3 chaos warbands with giants ect and 7 armies of skaven unknown warband.......
It was not a easy fight lol.

Those darn skaven warbands, they always attack my cities with two armies and full stacks. Fortunately abominations are still stupid easy to kill otherwise I would probably never be able to scrape some victories by!

Mortal Empires steam page is up...

http://store.steampowered.com/app/617810/Total_War_WARHAMMER_II__Mortal_Empires/

 djones520 wrote:
Nah, I like my armies of nothing but swordmasters and star dragons, thank you.

Which is cool. I thought it was pretty fun when Archaon came to bring the end times and I greeted him with a single stack with 3 tanks, 3 luminarks and most of the rest demigryphs. Twisted chaos monstrosities are nice and all, but I have tanks and laser guns. I'm doing something similar with High Elves now, although I'm opting for something with a little more variety, one of each dragon, some dragon princes, and a mix of Sea Guard, Sword Masters and Phoenix Guard.

I love ending up with a crazy mega-army stack like that, or even 3 of them, but it shouldn't be easy. It certainly shouldn't be achievable within the first 100 turns, but right now as soon as your first city reaches size 5 you'd have to be deliberately neutering yourself not to upgrade your main army to something obscenely impossible to kill.

Add some rules so that building those kinds of mega stacks requires an actual empire with contributions from many high level cities and you'd get three benefits. First you'd have a lot more strategy in city building, as building a single mega military province wouldn't be enough. Second you wouldn't see the megastacks until later in the game so they wouldn't get boring before the game ended. And lastly there would be a real feeling of achievement and power when you finally had the empire to support an all conquering megastack like that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LordofHats wrote:
A good point. Maybe extend the army upkeep penalty you get for having multiple lords? Armies become more expensive the larger they become?

Or you could remove the upkeep discount entirely. Instead Lord upgrades allow you to increase your army size?

OgreChubbs wrote:
If you are not carfull chaos can wipe you out when they spawned lol.

Also when I was skaven in tww2 and doing the last ritual I was hit with 5 armies of interventions, 3 chaos warbands with giants ect and 7 armies of skaven unknown warband.......
It was not a easy fight lol.

I reckon the only thing that makes those things hard is if you're playing an army that even with a full stack isn't terribly powerful. I didn't have much of a problem playing as Lizardmen because a high tier full stack of Lizardmen is quite capable of steamrolling over one ritual incursion army after the other. I'm struggling in TWW1 with Orcs vs the Chaos incursions because bringing down Kholek or Archaon's armies is difficult unless I bring 2 full stacks to the party and even then I suffer big losses so if another doomstack is wandering about it'll do me in.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Mortal Empires steam page is up...

http://store.steampowered.com/app/617810/Total_War_WARHAMMER_II__Mortal_Empires/

The page notes that while the Vortx campaign is not in Mortal Empires, the Chaos Incursions from the first game still are. And the forces of Chaos will be coming from surprising new directions. I assume that last bit means that the New World areas will also be suffering from Chaos atta (and possibly Brettonia, as well).

Looks like a whole bunch of youtubers got early access to mortal empires, so if you search mortal empires on youtube you'll find lots of videos from the regular Total War youtubers showing the map, starting locations, etc.

Looks like the "africa" continent has been squished so it's not as long but wider, Lustria has been cropped as have parts of the Dark Elf areas. 8 and 10 slot settlements are now spread out everywhere and it looks like there's some new building options for the TWW1 races. Athel Loren now has 12 slot setllements, so I guess their mechanics as a "horde" race is much the same but with more weight on their starting settlements.

Eumerin wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Mortal Empires steam page is up...

http://store.steampowered.com/app/617810/Total_War_WARHAMMER_II__Mortal_Empires/

The page notes that while the Vortx campaign is not in Mortal Empires, the Chaos Incursions from the first game still are. And the forces of Chaos will be coming from surprising new directions. I assume that last bit means that the New World areas will also be suffering from Chaos atta (and possibly Brettonia, as well).

Hmm. Maybe they split them up so some hit Kislev and some hit naggarond, rather than having the doom stack just run over Kislev.

Voss wrote:

Eumerin wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Mortal Empires steam page is up...

http://store.steampowered.com/app/617810/Total_War_WARHAMMER_II__Mortal_Empires/

The page notes that while the Vortx campaign is not in Mortal Empires, the Chaos Incursions from the first game still are. And the forces of Chaos will be coming from surprising new directions. I assume that last bit means that the New World areas will also be suffering from Chaos atta (and possibly Brettonia, as well).

Hmm. Maybe they split them up so some hit Kislev and some hit naggarond, rather than having the doom stack just run over Kislev.

I suspect that Kislev is still going to get overrun. After all, if Kislev somehow managed to *stop* the Chaos Doom Stacks, then the other Old World nations wouldn't feel much of a challenge, would they?



But I'm guessing that there will be additional stacks turning up in various places in the New World as well.

Seems like Norsca didn't make the cut for Mortal Empires. A shame because I was wanting to test them out and was waiting for ME to do so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LordofHats wrote:
This is also an interesting idea. Is there any real reason to continue capping army stacks at 20? The limitation existed at first as a technical limitation for field battles (in older Total War games you could never have more than 20 units on the field at once) but I think they solved that a few games ago and now you can command more than 1 army on the field at the same time.

I did some testing and found that on my computer where I've tuned the settings to get 30-40FPS in the benchmark, I get good performance with ~4400 models on the screen even with magic being thrown around. With 6000+ I start to get some slowdown. 4400 models, that's the equivalent of a full army of Clanrats vs a full army of Skinks. I tried a game with 8800 models (2v2 full armies of nothing but skinks, clanrats and magic user lords), it was still playable but some real significant slowdowns when everything was visible on screen at once.

FWIW, TWW2 does seem to handle large battles better than TWW1. They must have done some performance tweaking because both games I tuned to have roughly 30-40fps but TWW1 I get slowdowns more easily when things get too chaotic, TWW2 seems much more stable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
2 hours to go according to Steam!

Things loaded faster for me too in TWW2, so hopefully they keep it up into ME

Did ME download for you guys yet? I'm not seeing it on mine.

Nah not yet, still says 1 hour for me, I assume it'll come out at midnight my time, which would be 9am on the east coast of the USA.

Ah OK, thanks. I was looking all over the site for some DLC that I missed lol.

Yeah, still not out yet it seems, seems my guess was wrong. The page now says "less than an hour". Unfortunately I need to work tomorrow so I have to go to bed now, lol.

 Tagony wrote:
Did ME download for you guys yet? I'm not seeing it on mine.

I’m assuming a 10AM-1PM EST window for when it available to download. Thats been the case for most Total War: WH DLC.

Would love to be wrong,though!

Mine's started to download now. 4.5GB download should be done in about 10 minutes, but I REALLY need to go to bed Will have to play it after work tomorrow, lol.

Eumerin wrote:

Voss wrote:

Eumerin wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Mortal Empires steam page is up...

http://store.steampowered.com/app/617810/Total_War_WARHAMMER_II__Mortal_Empires/

The page notes that while the Vortx campaign is not in Mortal Empires, the Chaos Incursions from the first game still are. And the forces of Chaos will be coming from surprising new directions. I assume that last bit means that the New World areas will also be suffering from Chaos atta (and possibly Brettonia, as well).

Hmm. Maybe they split them up so some hit Kislev and some hit naggarond, rather than having the doom stack just run over Kislev.

I suspect that Kislev is still going to get overrun. After all, if Kislev somehow managed to *stop* the Chaos Doom Stacks, then the other Old World nations wouldn't feel much of a challenge, would they?

Oh no doubt. I just got tired of seeing 4 full chaos armies work in tandem and insta-gib Kislev.


So, east coast north america has it live at this point. It installed the 'free' dlc by itself, but I see I'll have to exit and restart steam for it to reload the rest, after the big patch (4.5 Gig) downloads, and downloading the actual 'mortal empires' dlc.
Its happily burbling in 'preallocating,' thanks steam.

Voss wrote:

Eumerin wrote:

Voss wrote:

Eumerin wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Mortal Empires steam page is up...

http://store.steampowered.com/app/617810/Total_War_WARHAMMER_II__Mortal_Empires/

The page notes that while the Vortx campaign is not in Mortal Empires, the Chaos Incursions from the first game still are. And the forces of Chaos will be coming from surprising new directions. I assume that last bit means that the New World areas will also be suffering from Chaos atta (and possibly Brettonia, as well).

Hmm. Maybe they split them up so some hit Kislev and some hit naggarond, rather than having the doom stack just run over Kislev.

I suspect that Kislev is still going to get overrun. After all, if Kislev somehow managed to *stop* the Chaos Doom Stacks, then the other Old World nations wouldn't feel much of a challenge, would they?

Oh no doubt. I just got tired of seeing 4 full chaos armies work in tandem and insta-gib Kislev.


So, east coast north america has it live at this point. It installed the 'free' dlc by itself, but I see I'll have to exit and restart steam for it to reload the rest, after the big patch (4.5 Gig) downloads, and downloading the actual 'mortal empires' dlc.
Its happily burbling in 'preallocating,' thanks steam.

I didn't have to restart Steam, but yeah, after the 4.5GB download I clicked to install the DLC and another 680MB update started.

Seems to be working after that though.

I ran into some steam issue after downloading the patch. Their sales front is messed up, which is especially annoying since the dlc is free.

Edit: Found a workaround, though. Apparently can just download it from the store page for it. Steam is weird.



Some changes to the map and starting armies. Queek's new position is interesting- Southlands in general feel really different- some of the provinces are a lot bigger due to the different ways the two campaign maps distort the geography.
He's on the edge of the TW1 and TW2 campaign maps (even though the provinces he's in aren't really there in TW2). In the mountains above the dwarves and orcs next to Krog Gar, which is near some of the orcs from TW1. Strange to get used to.

Queek now has a warp lightning cannon, nightrunners with slings and stormvermin with sword and shield starting out.

Well I hope mine is done by the time I get home, I left it up to start the DL while I'm at work. Is there any mention of unit retools? I would really like a revamped HE artillery. Those things don't hit hard at all for me.

 Tagony wrote:
Well I hope mine is done by the time I get home, I left it up to start the DL while I'm at work. Is there any mention of unit retools? I would really like a revamped HE artillery. Those things don't hit hard at all for me.

Really? As long as they're in the right fire mode, they tear apart targets.

But yea, they got changed according to the patch notes: fewer hp on the bolt throwers themselves. Not the crew, just the engines.