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I'm not talking about legalities, I'm talking about manner and proper etiquette. If someone takes offense to something you say, then you should try and explain that it wasn't your intent, even if it's over something seemingly innocuous. I recently had this exchange with one of my coworkers. I was complaining about my neighbors and referred to them as "ghetto". She took offense because she saw that as derogatory. I apologized, said I wasn't trying to insult her, and we moved past it, like adults. Plus, I still use the word ghetto, I just don't use it with her because she thinks it's offensive. Simple stuff.

As bad as the left is about PC culture, the right has had a sudden resurgence in "I should be able to say whatever I want and if you think I'm a jerk, then you're overly sensitive".

Alternatively I might be nice but I would put them on the list of people not to talk to. *


*In actuality I only talk business at work with the exception of one or two people or very minor pleasantries. That avoids these problems alltogether.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 redleger wrote:
Yep, it's sad now that calling someone ma'am, showing respect to them is offensive.

A young lady at an office I was visiting told me in a non-aggressive way that I was being sexist for holding the door open for her. The way I was raised, you ALWAYS hold the door open for women, the elderly, and the disabled. And if you're ever dining with a woman, the elderly, or the disabled, you ALWAYS pick up the bill.

Is that sexist? Is it ageist? Is it abilitist? To me, it's just a common courtesy, and to be honest, when I see men who do not extend these courtesies, I see it as evidence of a lack of character.

In the push for egalitarianism, it's my opinion that we should not throw the baby out with the ubathwater. But maybe the world is passing me by.

Dude, different places have different social conventions. It's really simple. It's not the death of decency because you met someone raised with different expectations to your own.

It was in the same town that I work. I chalked it up as a generational thing. It did not make me angry at all, just a bit melancholy. Not all changes are for the better.

 Frazzled wrote:

I'm not talking about legalities, I'm talking about manner and proper etiquette. If someone takes offense to something you say, then you should try and explain that it wasn't your intent, even if it's over something seemingly innocuous. I recently had this exchange with one of my coworkers. I was complaining about my neighbors and referred to them as "ghetto". She took offense because she saw that as derogatory. I apologized, said I wasn't trying to insult her, and we moved past it, like adults. Plus, I still use the word ghetto, I just don't use it with her because she thinks it's offensive. Simple stuff.

As bad as the left is about PC culture, the right has had a sudden resurgence in "I should be able to say whatever I want and if you think I'm a jerk, then you're overly sensitive".

Alternatively I might be nice but I would put them on the list of people not to talk to. *


*In actuality I only talk business at work with the exception of one or two people or very minor pleasantries. That avoids these problems alltogether.

Prior to getting out we saw each other 14 to 18 hours a day, so we talk about everything. Don't know if you have heard Soldiers in their native habitat, but this conversation would be about different kinds of language. Hopefully when I start working as a contractor the curve isn't so bad. Less hours around people might help.

Pops, the "jig" event was one person committing assault and battery over a misunderstanding. I think it's safe to say the fault lies with the criminal. It's also what I was talking about when I said sometimes a request is too onerous to comply with. If you work with a machine that's called a jig, and you you often need to specify that machine to coworkers, then it is an unreasonable burden to avoid the word jig. If a coworker has a problem with it, usually a simple conversation expressing lack of intent to use (or even awareness of) a slur should suffice. If your coworker attacks you without warning, that's on him and you probably don't need to worry about staying on his good side since he'll hopefully get shitcanned.

 redleger wrote:
And this is being overly construed. Ghetto is very easily associated with race. But knowing ghetto upset her and moving on is the way it should work, because it's not a far streatch, so I wouldn't necessarily call that reaching. If I say I bought a new jig for my new fishing pole, and you take offense to that, then I'm not entirely sure I would care. I would however limit interaction with that person from now on.

Perfectly reasonable.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sebster wrote:
The left wants to show how much more enlightened they are by lecturing everyone about everything. Both sides are utterly insufferable.

I'll own it. But don't knock what works; my son is one of the best behaved kids in his class because he'll do anything to avoid an insufferable lecture.


Still better than being one of those insufferable Golden Meanists.

Well, I guess you can say some places have not "progressed" as well as others.
A prior work of mine was like the United Nations with so many nationalities in it which was awesome.
BUT to be within this topic, they did not have anyone I knew of that had some disability in their employ (unless you count the guy who was 7'4" tall).

My main local hobby shop has this one small step right at their door and I know of at least 3 people confined to wheelchair in the area that want to play and post on Facebook.
They keep asking people to come over to their place "because it is easier".
I have harassed the store owner in that regard and his #1 reply is: "I rent the space, I am not allowed to change the facility."
One step. They have sufficient space and flat floor and even the tables are low... it could so easily accommodate.

Not sure how that is the managers fault?

 Talizvar wrote:
Well, I guess you can say some places have not "progressed" as well as others.
A prior work of mine was like the United Nations with so many nationalities in it which was awesome.
BUT to be within this topic, they did not have anyone I knew of that had some disability in their employ (unless you count the guy who was 7'4" tall).

My main local hobby shop has this one small step right at their door and I know of at least 3 people confined to wheelchair in the area that want to play and post on Facebook.
They keep asking people to come over to their place "because it is easier".
I have harassed the store owner in that regard and his #1 reply is: "I rent the space, I am not allowed to change the facility."
One step. They have sufficient space and flat floor and even the tables are low... it could so easily accommodate.

Not hard to help your wheel chair bound buddy up one step. When my wife shattered her pelvis I got her up and down a handful of steps multiple times a day. Seems silly to let one step stop you from gaming in this case.

I'm not sure where the assumption that we can't use 'jig', 'black', and 'retardant' in the proper context from.

Is there an actual instance of someone ordering black coffee and getting grief over it?

Saying "that jig is garbage" in a workshop loud enough for a co-worker driving a forklift to hear and get enraged is an obvious misunderstanding, and kudos to the poster for discussing it with his co worker like an adult instead of hiding behind HR and the authorities.

There's an awful lot of histrionic smoke in here and no real fire.

 CptJake wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
Well, I guess you can say some places have not "progressed" as well as others.
A prior work of mine was like the United Nations with so many nationalities in it which was awesome.
BUT to be within this topic, they did not have anyone I knew of that had some disability in their employ (unless you count the guy who was 7'4" tall).

My main local hobby shop has this one small step right at their door and I know of at least 3 people confined to wheelchair in the area that want to play and post on Facebook.
They keep asking people to come over to their place "because it is easier".
I have harassed the store owner in that regard and his #1 reply is: "I rent the space, I am not allowed to change the facility."
One step. They have sufficient space and flat floor and even the tables are low... it could so easily accommodate.

Not hard to help your wheel chair bound buddy up one step. When my wife shattered her pelvis I got her up and down a handful of steps multiple times a day. Seems silly to let one step stop you from gaming in this case.

And if his buddy is on his own? I think the concern is more that the hobby shop is refusing to help customers with disabilities, like Stephen Hawking wanting to come pick up some dice.

EDIT: Self-deleted.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
Well, I guess you can say some places have not "progressed" as well as others.
A prior work of mine was like the United Nations with so many nationalities in it which was awesome.
BUT to be within this topic, they did not have anyone I knew of that had some disability in their employ (unless you count the guy who was 7'4" tall).

My main local hobby shop has this one small step right at their door and I know of at least 3 people confined to wheelchair in the area that want to play and post on Facebook.
They keep asking people to come over to their place "because it is easier".
I have harassed the store owner in that regard and his #1 reply is: "I rent the space, I am not allowed to change the facility."
One step. They have sufficient space and flat floor and even the tables are low... it could so easily accommodate.

Not hard to help your wheel chair bound buddy up one step. When my wife shattered her pelvis I got her up and down a handful of steps multiple times a day. Seems silly to let one step stop you from gaming in this case.

And if his buddy is on his own? I think the concern is more that the hobby shop is refusing to help customers with disabilities, like Stephen Hawking wanting to come pick up some dice.

I strongly suspect if someone wheeled up to the door and asked for help getting in, somebody, either a customer or employee, would give them a hand. If not, well, it wasn't a gaming community worth hanging out with anyway. No-one said they were refusing to help, what was said is they were refusing, allegedly based on their lease agreement, to alter the structure even to put in a ramp. Big difference in my mind.

 jasper76 wrote:

 redleger wrote:
Yep, it's sad now that calling someone ma'am, showing respect to them is offensive.

A young lady at an office I was visiting told me in a non-aggressive way that I was being sexist for holding the door open for her. The way I was raised, you ALWAYS hold the door open for women, the elderly, and the disabled. And if you're ever dining with a woman, the elderly, or the disabled, you ALWAYS pick up the bill.

Is that sexist? Is it ageist? Is it abilitist? To me, it's just a common courtesy, and to be honest, when I see men who do not extend these courtesies, I see it as evidence of a lack of character.

In the push for egalitarianism, it's my opinion that we should not throw the baby out with the ubathwater. But maybe the world is passing me by.

I bet that same lady would be pissed if you didn't hold the elevator for her though. Doors are all fun & games, but anyone who watches the doors close as your coming up to an elevator is truely evil

I've heard stories like yours before, but they seem to be rarer than a bigfoot sighting, so feel free to hold the door.

 CptJake wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
Well, I guess you can say some places have not "progressed" as well as others.
A prior work of mine was like the United Nations with so many nationalities in it which was awesome.
BUT to be within this topic, they did not have anyone I knew of that had some disability in their employ (unless you count the guy who was 7'4" tall).
My main local hobby shop has this one small step right at their door and I know of at least 3 people confined to wheelchair in the area that want to play and post on Facebook.
They keep asking people to come over to their place "because it is easier".
I have harassed the store owner in that regard and his #1 reply is: "I rent the space, I am not allowed to change the facility."
One step. They have sufficient space and flat floor and even the tables are low... it could so easily accommodate.

Not hard to help your wheel chair bound buddy up one step. When my wife shattered her pelvis I got her up and down a handful of steps multiple times a day. Seems silly to let one step stop you from gaming in this case.

And if his buddy is on his own? I think the concern is more that the hobby shop is refusing to help customers with disabilities, like Stephen Hawking wanting to come pick up some dice.

I strongly suspect if someone wheeled up to the door and asked for help getting in, somebody, either a customer or employee, would give them a hand. If not, well, it wasn't a gaming community worth hanging out with anyway. No-one said they were refusing to help, what was said is they were refusing, allegedly based on their lease agreement, to alter the structure even to put in a ramp. Big difference in my mind.

Well, this is where the scenario is a bit tough:
- The door opens outward so will take some effort to get open with the fairly strong door closer.
- The opening is a bit of a dog-leg so no-one would see this person trying to gain entrance so would have to wait till someone goes to enter or exit.
- I would argue the point with the landlord to get a ramp in just for the trolleys people bring in will all their gaming stuff if for some silly reason wheelchair access is not enough .
- Washroom would be a bit harder but it has the space and installing grab rails are not all that hard to do (Not tile so you do not have to go too crazy).
I think this would be a business advantage because they hold all kinds of MTG competitions and getting right into Pokémon as well as a 40k tournament this weekend so getting a name for inclusivity is helpful. LGBT community is well represented so it is a strange "one small step" to get stuck on.

sirlynchmob wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 redleger wrote:
Yep, it's sad now that calling someone ma'am, showing respect to them is offensive.

A young lady at an office I was visiting told me in a non-aggressive way that I was being sexist for holding the door open for her. The way I was raised, you ALWAYS hold the door open for women, the elderly, and the disabled. And if you're ever dining with a woman, the elderly, or the disabled, you ALWAYS pick up the bill.

Is that sexist? Is it ageist? Is it abilitist? To me, it's just a common courtesy, and to be honest, when I see men who do not extend these courtesies, I see it as evidence of a lack of character.

In the push for egalitarianism, it's my opinion that we should not throw the baby out with the ubathwater. But maybe the world is passing me by.

I bet that same lady would be pissed if you didn't hold the elevator for her though. Doors are all fun & games, but anyone who watches the doors close as your coming up to an elevator is truely evil

I've heard stories like yours before, but they seem to be rarer than a bigfoot sighting, so feel free to hold the door.

Agreed on the elevator. Also agree on the rarity. When o think about it, I must've held thousands of doors, bit I've only ever been told it was sexist the one time.

With regards to the OP post...I don't think I've ever used, or heard used, the word "lame" to refer to someone with disabilities, aside from older books or movies set in like Victorian England and the like. "Lame", in all current usage I have encountered, is pretty much exclusively used to mean "uncool" with zero connotations of disability in my experience. That sounds like an odd one to get upset about.

Man this is crap. Words have multiple meanings and intent and use of the word matters more than the word itself. I'm sorry if this is a colorful world and things have gotten too real for some people but censoring words won't take away the bad things some of those words represent. For instance if you took away the word rape it's not like it'd go away.

This hyper-sensitivity is such crap and PC is only PC when it is based around politically left issues. If a christian or white male was insulted (calling a white guy a 'cracker') would the PC crowd even bat an eye at it? I kind of hate the first world nations now because of all this. I almost want to live in a slightly less developed nation so i can see what real problems are and appreciate them as such.

SO much smoke. So little fire. I should start a fainting couch business. I'd make a killing.

The anger about "Politically Correct" form of speaking its absurd. 40 years ago the people that today feel represed where the ones censoring what you can say and when you can say it.

Now the sides have fliped. In 40 years thing will be again at the inverse. Its pretty futile to be angry about this.
Human history its ciclical. As a species we face the same problems again and again. The thing that changes its how we answer those problems.
Hipocrisy its one of the things that really upset me, thats why the partisanism of today society its very tiresome to me. The "If my party do it, its right, if the other guys do it, its wrong" its infuriating.

PD: So many letters to don't say anything with substance

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Man this is crap. Words have multiple meanings and intent and use of the word matters more than the word itself. I'm sorry if this is a colorful world and things have gotten too real for some people but censoring words won't take away the bad things some of those words represent. For instance if you took away the word rape it's not like it'd go away.

And often the other meanings are based on the original definition and seek to conflate those or belittle those people.

This hyper-sensitivity is such crap and PC is only PC when it is based around politically left issues. If a christian or white male was insulted (calling a white guy a 'cracker') would the PC crowd even bat an eye at it?

Yes, they would.

I kind of hate the first world nations now because of all this. I almost want to live in a slightly less developed nation so i can see what real problems are and appreciate them as such.

Just because other problems are worse doesn't make another problem isn't a problem, especially when it's a problem that can be dealt with somewhat easily.

As a right-wing Christian gun owner I often get upset when the leftist anti-gun atheists belittle my religion and political views here on Dakka. It triggers my anxiety disorder and sometimes causes panic attacks. As a result I hope you will all accommodate my needs and never again be critical of Christianity, the second amendment or conservatism on the forum. Easy enough to censor yourself so you don't offend me, right?

Or I could continue to wear a thick skin and not expect everyone else to conform to me all the time, like any sane adult in the real world.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

This hyper-sensitivity is such crap and PC is only PC when it is based around politically left issues.

That's because the term political correctness is used by the right and aimed at the left in a derogatory way. The PC crowd can't be on the right by definition but you just try to say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" and you apparently start a War on Christmas. There's literary a whole TV network of thin-skinned snowflakes making money with that outrage during the winter months :/

 Nostromodamus wrote:
As a right-wing Christian gun owner I often get upset when the leftist anti-gun atheists belittle my religion and political views here on Dakka. It triggers my anxiety disorder and sometimes causes panic attacks. As a result I hope you will all accommodate my needs and never again be critical of Christianity, the second amendment or conservatism on the forum. Easy enough to censor yourself so you don't offend me, right?

Or I could continue to wear a thick skin and not expect everyone else to conform to me all the time, like any sane adult in the real world.

Well, this original discusion wasn't about opinions or ideology criticism, but about medical and physical conditions.


Religion its not a person, so even if you insult religion (Budhism, Islam, Christianism, etc...) you aren't attacking a person. If someone its offended because you have attacked an ideology, the fault of being offended its only theirs. I have meet Vegans and Vegetarians that take offense in a personal level when I criticise those things. I really don't care about that.

This its different if I attack "males/females", or black people, white people, disabled people, tall people, etc... because I'm not speaking about an Ideology, about a "External" thing of those people. I'm talking about conditionts that they didn't choose, and they can't change, so its totally normal when people take offense of attacks against their natural and biological conditions.

So, no. Its not the same if someone attack your ideology, that if somebody attack you for being white/black or male. (Or attack those groups of people that share a biological condition)

Summarizing: No one should be criticied and attacked by things they cant choose. Now, for things that we can chose, go ahead. Thats why we have freedom to chose them in the first place. No ideology should be free of criticism and derision. And I say this as a filthy marxist (Economical, social marxism its just absurd)

 Nostromodamus wrote:
As a right-wing Christian gun owner I often get upset when the leftist anti-gun atheists belittle my religion and political views here on Dakka. It triggers my anxiety disorder and sometimes causes panic attacks. As a result I hope you will all accommodate my needs and never again be critical of Christianity, the second amendment or conservatism on the forum. Easy enough to censor yourself so you don't offend me, right?

Or I could continue to wear a thick skin and not expect everyone else to conform to me all the time, like any sane adult in the real world.

You really think some of us haven't held back considerably as a courtesy to Christian feelings? Now who's a sensitive snowflake?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

You really think some of us haven't held back considerably as a courtesy to Christian feelings?

I don't think that at all. If you don't make anti-religious remarks then my sarcastic reply doesn't apply to you. If you want to make anti-religious remarks, go ahead. My genuine reply applies in that case and I will accept it as another person's opinion and get on with life like any adult should do without demanding society change to my whims.

My point is that any mature, sane person should be able to deal with people using words they dislike without having to demand people act in a certain way and modify their vocabulary in their presence.

 jasper76 wrote:
A young lady at an office I was visiting told me in a non-aggressive way that I was being sexist for holding the door open for her. The way I was raised, you ALWAYS hold the door open for women, the elderly, and the disabled. And if you're ever dining with a woman, the elderly, or the disabled, you ALWAYS pick up the bill.

Is that sexist?

Yes. Textbook definition of sexism.
Personally I hold the door for everyone.

 Nostromodamus wrote:
As a right-wing Christian gun owner

So you mean, as the archetype the society you lives in cater to the most? Oh woah that sure gives extra weight to your argument.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Nostromodamus wrote:
As a right-wing Christian gun owner

So you mean, as the archetype the society you lives in cater to the most? Oh woah that sure gives extra weight to your argument.

So that makes it ok for people to hurt my feelings by saying my beliefs are invalid? I thought you PC types were for equality? Anyway, you're getting my anxiety up. Kindly cease your microaggressions. I may have to just keep not giving a feth what you think.

You (I use it in plural) are turning this thread in something that it wasn't about. Please, we should go back to a rational debate as mentally mature humans.

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

You really think some of us haven't held back considerably as a courtesy to Christian feelings?

I don't think that at all. If you don't make anti-religious remarks then my sarcastic reply doesn't apply to you. If you want to make anti-religious remarks, go ahead. My genuine reply applies in that case and I will accept it as another person's opinion and get on with life like any adult should do without demanding society change to my whims.

My point is that any mature, sane person should be able to deal with people using words they dislike without having to demand people act in a certain way and modify their vocabulary in their presence.

From the religion that brought you book burnings, bannings, boycotts, blasphamy laws, and religious tests for political office, you know demanding people act in a certain and change to their whims. Just don't ask them to be tolerant of others and not use known racial slurs & offensive language, because they can't be bothered to try and be less offensive.

Yup, better throw history's list of terrible things at my feet because I'm totally responsible for, and endorse, all of the above.

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

You really think some of us haven't held back considerably as a courtesy to Christian feelings?

I don't think that at all. If you don't make anti-religious remarks then my sarcastic reply doesn't apply to you. If you want to make anti-religious remarks, go ahead. My genuine reply applies in that case and I will accept it as another person's opinion and get on with life like any adult should do without demanding society change to my whims.

My point is that any mature, sane person should be able to deal with people using words they dislike without having to demand people act in a certain way and modify their vocabulary in their presence.

Just like any sane or mature person should be able to moderate his vocabulary for the people he is around. So far, I think the best analogy in this thread is to think of it as swearing in front of children. You have the right. Others have the right to ask you to stop. How do you proceed?