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Hi gang,

I'm trying to field a larger legion using Covenant of Fire for a game coming up soon. This will be my largest game yet as a Salamanders Legion player.

I'm wondering if Implacable affects vehicles since it states that "All units gain move through cover" RAW.

Looks legit. It doesn't specify units with the Legio Astartes Salamanders rule so I would interpret that as anythIng which is part of that detachment.

I'm not even sure what move through cover does for vehicles in all fairness.

Freakish1987 wrote:
Looks legit. It doesn't specify units with the Legio Astartes Salamanders rule so I would interpret that as anythIng which is part of that detachment.

I'm not even sure what move through cover does for vehicles in all fairness.

Vehicles dont have the Legiones Astartes rules.

I feel like you may have jumped on me a bit prematurely there VVT. From my copy of HH2; Massacre, the RoW that the OP is talking about does NOT specify 'all units with the Legiones Astartes (Salamanders) special rule have' , it simply states 'all units have'. Thus was my reasoning.

Oh sorry then mate, I've been slightly distracted today

Thats fine my brother, I just didn't want my question decried before I had a chance to have it answered.
<3

Freakish1987 wrote:
Looks legit. It doesn't specify units with the Legio Astartes Salamanders rule so I would interpret that as anythIng which is part of that detachment.

I'm not even sure what move through cover does for vehicles in all fairness.

LINK HERE TO IMPLACABLE/MOVE THROUGH COVER RULE: http://www.fortheemperor.net/2015/09/23/move-through-cover/


Basically Detachment Units get "Move Though Cover", which means you wouldn't have to pay for Dozer Blades right? (Saving you a few points which really add up in the long run).

Essentially, I want to confirm if you would need to pay for dozer blades or not since you auto-pass dangerous terrain tests.

I'm trying to make an army which can take advantage of this when it comes to the assault. =P




Move Through Cover -

Units role an extra D6 die when moving through difficult terrain
Units are not slowed when charging through difficult terrain
Units automatically pass dangerous terrain tests
Monstrous creatures, flying monstrous creatures, gargantuan creatures, and flying gargantuan creatures have the “move through cover” special rule.


Key points to remember:

When assaulting through difficult terrain you don’t subtract 2″ from the charge distance
Units still suffer the penalty to their initiative when charging through difficult terrain unless they have assault grenades or a special rule saying otherwise
Flying monstrous creatures that are “gliding” and jump monstrous creatures do not take difficult terrain tests

Move Through Cover from the Rite, the ability to swap heavy bolters for heavy flamers from Purging Flame, and the Promethean Gift rule all apply to 'vehicles in this detachment', they don't specify that the vehicles must be Salamanders vehicles.

So the really funny loophole to try and argue is that you can take a Blood Angels/Salamanders Shattered Legions army, swap any heavy bolter on any vehicle for a heavy flamer, and then swap the heavy flamer for an assault cannon, thus producing such comic abominations as the Sicaran Battle Tank with four assault cannons as backups to its main gun, assault-cannon-armed jetbikes, and the Baal-pattern Malcador Defender with seven assault cannons mounted around its perimeter.

When weighed against that technically-legal bizarre abuse of the rules arguing that Move Through Cover from Covenant of Fire applies to your vehicles, which it does and is fairly clear about, is almost tame.

(The really fun use of Covenant of Fire is to give your Bikes/Assault Squads immunity to Dangerous Terrain tests in Zone Mortalis.)

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Move Through Cover from the Rite, the ability to swap heavy bolters for heavy flamers from Purging Flame, and the Promethean Gift rule all apply to 'vehicles in this detachment', they don't specify that the vehicles must be Salamanders vehicles.

So the really funny loophole to try and argue is that you can take a Blood Angels/Salamanders Shattered Legions army, swap any heavy bolter on any vehicle for a heavy flamer, and then swap the heavy flamer for an assault cannon, thus producing such comic abominations as the Sicaran Battle Tank with four assault cannons as backups to its main gun, assault-cannon-armed jetbikes, and the Baal-pattern Malcador Defender with seven assault cannons mounted around its perimeter.

When weighed against that technically-legal bizarre abuse of the rules arguing that Move Through Cover from Covenant of Fire applies to your vehicles, which it does and is fairly clear about, is almost tame.

(The really fun use of Covenant of Fire is to give your Bikes/Assault Squads immunity to Dangerous Terrain tests in Zone Mortalis.)

That..is ridiculous haha...I would bet that most people who show up with an army like that would draw a lot of hate and ire though. That's honestly, really, TECHNICALLY legal?

I just wanted to be able to ensure my transports get where they need to go...I don't mind shelling out for Dozer blades if I have to, but freeing up those points helps a lot at lower point levels.

I've also been thinking about bikes and assault troops, I know they're aren't as fluffy for Salamanders, but they really lend something to those rules. I hate dealing with dangerous terrain tests, mainly because I get absent-minded about them easily.

Herecomesyourman wrote:
...That..is ridiculous haha...I would bet that most people who show up with an army like that would draw a lot of hate and ire though. That's honestly, really, TECHNICALLY legal?...

Emphasis on technically. Given that Shattered Legions are permission-use in the first place if you actually tried to do this you're more likely to end up getting a stupefied look and a "...No?" from your opponent than anything else, so don't go building your Ravenwing Protocol assault-cannon jetbike army just yet. (And unlike the Salamanders' heavy flamer swap the Blood Angels' assault cannon swap specifies "Blood Angels models", so you can't give the assault cannon to a White Scars biker for Skilled Rider. You can still borrow a third Legion's Rite of War, though, so these assault cannon jetbikes can totally be Scoring and leave the table during their Movement phase to enter by Outflank on the next turn from Ravenwing Protocol.)

Where does the fourth assault cannon on the Sicarian come from?

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Herecomesyourman wrote:
...That..is ridiculous haha...I would bet that most people who show up with an army like that would draw a lot of hate and ire though. That's honestly, really, TECHNICALLY legal?...

Emphasis on technically. Given that Shattered Legions are permission-use in the first place if you actually tried to do this you're more likely to end up getting a stupefied look and a "...No?" from your opponent than anything else, so don't go building your Ravenwing Protocol assault-cannon jetbike army just yet. (And unlike the Salamanders' heavy flamer swap the Blood Angels' assault cannon swap specifies "Blood Angels models", so you can't give the assault cannon to a White Scars biker for Skilled Rider. You can still borrow a third Legion's Rite of War, though, so these assault cannon jetbikes can totally be Scoring and leave the table during their Movement phase to enter by Outflank on the next turn from Ravenwing Protocol.)

Honestly I'm not going to bother with Shattered Legion lists just yet...I want to get to a point with my Sallies where I feel they're about done, and easily fielded in a scaleable manner depending on the point level.

I think what you're describing is a balance oversight that will probably, eventually be FAQ'd out. I just think it's funny no one caught things like this during the editing phase of the rule books.

I do however think small outrider bike squads with double plasma might be in my future as harassing units.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Where does the fourth assault cannon on the Sicarian come from?

Two sponsons, one hull mount, one pintle mount.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Herecomesyourman wrote:
...I think what you're describing is a balance oversight that will probably, eventually be FAQ'd out. I just think it's funny no one caught things like this during the editing phase of the rule books...

I'm describing the reason Shattered Legions are permission-use. They weren't heavily vetted and aren't likely to make it into any future releases outside of a heavily-restricted reimagining that allows things like Istvaan survivor forces (possibly via Rite) without allowing silly combos like Stone Gauntlet Firedrakes and the aforementioned bizarre-assault-cannon-spam constructions.