Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi everybody. Our local community started to play Horus Heresy, and so I'm inclined to start playing Iron Warriors. I've managed to built this sorry excuse of a list .

Rite of War: Ironfire

Centurion; siege breaker = 95
Centurion; primus medicae, cataphractii = 130

10 Legion terminators; cataphractii = 325
3 Rapier quad launchers; phosphex shells = 240
3 Rapier quad launchers; phosphex shells = 240
3 Rapier quad launchers; phosphex shells = 240

10 Legion assault marines; 2 power weapons, power fist = 210
10 Legion assault marines; 2 power weapons, power fist = 210

10 Iron havocs; missile launchers, augury scanner = 365
3 Medusas = 465

Perturabo; forgebreaker = 490

The idea is that Perturabo deep strikes somewhere near enemy forces, assault squads deploy either near him in nuncio-vox radius or somewhere near other enemy forces, and all the guns starts pummeling enemy into dirt using Ironfire benefits.
(also, Perturabo is pretty much mandatory as everone in my club run a Primarch and he's pretty cool guy, giving furious charge and not afraid of anything)

What are your thoughts about it?

You will almost certainly decimate anyone you play and they will then give you the finger and not play this list again.
If thats what you want then sure lol
Quad mortars with phosphex remove infantry no matter what and if you give them shatter as well you may as well not play, 3 is a hard list 9 is just silly.

You will wreck some armies, others will wreck you. You don't have many answers to Mechanicum armies with a lot of automata or flyer heavy lists. However, if you don't have any opponents that play those lists you'll be fine. You also only have 30 scoring models in a 3k list. Some folks will just target your assault marines and terminators and leave you unable to score points on objectives.

The havocs would deal with flyers to be honest.
I assume perturabo will deep strike with the termies on turn 1 or atleast hope to, aslong as he makes it down next turn everyone else can deep strike near him while hes busy tearing things apart. the quads will deal with any infantry on the board and since not taking shatter would be foolish the quads and havocs can pop anything av14 and under while perty can either wait to be charged on his arriving turn and probably do a decent job of killing whatever goes for him or not get charged and start tearing things apart by turn 2.
this list basically removes the benefit of a spartan death star since it just ends up camped in its own deployment zone while he kills the rest of the army at range with the quads, havocs and medusas.
He also gets to use perty for barrage spotting and starts dropping iron fire tokens to make everything fearless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do remember however that a nuncio vox can only be used by a model that started the turn already on the board.

 King Amroth wrote:
You will almost certainly decimate anyone you play and they will then give you the finger and not play this list again.
If thats what you want then sure lol
Quad mortars with phosphex remove infantry no matter what and if you give them shatter as well you may as well not play, 3 is a hard list 9 is just silly.

Well, yeah, everybody say that. But is there any other way to play fluffy trigger-happy genicidal artillerists?

 Vexler wrote:

 King Amroth wrote:
You will almost certainly decimate anyone you play and they will then give you the finger and not play this list again.
If thats what you want then sure lol
Quad mortars with phosphex remove infantry no matter what and if you give them shatter as well you may as well not play, 3 is a hard list 9 is just silly.

Well, yeah, everybody say that. But is there any other way to play fluffy trigger-happy genicidal artillerists?

With medusas / basilisks / whirlwinds or a combination of them, honestly those quad mortars will make people not want to play your army, leave in 1 squad and sub the others for other types of arty.. unless you are aiming for a very competitive list in which case go right ahead sir

I play ironfire, and you will get very bored of playing that list very quickly. In my 2k list, I only use two quads and two medusas, that is more than enough. I'd loose some of your artillery, and add some variation to give you some play style options, otherwise every game is going to involve you using that the same tactic.

Don't let haters deter you - the Phosphex stuff is mean, but by no means the end-all. That being said, triple per squad is generally overkill. You definitely want Shatter rounds too - those will nuke Knights and non-Flare shield armor. It may not be Barrage, but it is a useful tool to have.

Not sure you need triple Medusa, though I know it does capitalize on the RoW. If you don't own them, I would start with two and see if the third is really necessary.

Your Assault squads are a bit puny and could stand to get bumped to 15. Artificer armor is a must. And generally so is an Apothecary - though that might not be possible as the Quads take priority.

So, maybe something like this:


HQ:
Siegebreaker
Boarding Shield
[105]

Primus Medicae
Cataphractii Armor
[120]

Elites:
(8) Cataphractii Terminators
3x Chainfists, 5x Power Axes, 5x Combi-Plasma, Plasma Blaster
[345]

(2) Quad Launchers
Shatter, Phosphex
[180]

(2) Quad Launchers
Shatter, Phosphex
[180]

(2) Quad Launchers
Shatter, Phosphex
[180]

Troops:
(15) Assault Squad
3x Power Axe, Power Fist & Artificer Armor
[295]

(15) Assault Squad
3x Power Axe, Power Fist & Artificer Armor
[295]

Heavy:
(2) Legion Medusa
[310]

Legion Whirlwind Scorpius
[115]

(10) Iron Havocs
Missile Launchers, Augury Scanner
[365]

Lord of War:
Perturabo
Forgebreaker
[490]

Not quite 3k - has some wiggle room. Just a rough outline of the changes.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Don't let haters deter you - the Phosphex stuff is mean, but by no means the end-all. That being said, triple per squad is generally overkill. You definitely want Shatter rounds too - those will nuke Knights and non-Flare shield armor. It may not be Barrage, but it is a useful tool to have.

Not sure you need triple Medusa, though I know it does capitalize on the RoW. If you don't own them, I would start with two and see if the third is really necessary.

Your Assault squads are a bit puny and could stand to get bumped to 15. Artificer armor is a must. And generally so is an Apothecary - though that might not be possible as the Quads take priority.

So, maybe something like this:


HQ:
Siegebreaker
Boarding Shield
[105]

Primus Medicae
Cataphractii Armor
[120]

Elites:
(8) Cataphractii Terminators
3x Chainfists, 5x Power Axes, 5x Combi-Plasma, Plasma Blaster
[345]

(2) Quad Launchers
Shatter, Phosphex
[180]

(2) Quad Launchers
Shatter, Phosphex
[180]

(2) Quad Launchers
Shatter, Phosphex
[180]

Troops:
(15) Assault Squad
3x Power Axe, Power Fist & Artificer Armor
[295]

(15) Assault Squad
3x Power Axe, Power Fist & Artificer Armor
[295]

Heavy:
(2) Legion Medusa
[310]

Legion Whirlwind Scorpius
[115]

(10) Iron Havocs
Missile Launchers, Augury Scanner
[365]

Lord of War:
Perturabo
Forgebreaker
[490]

Not quite 3k - has some wiggle room. Just a rough outline of the changes.

This list is a good change but i would take it 1 step further and drop one of the units of quad mortars and fit in a kheres mortis contempter, it will give you a decent interceptor as augury scanners only work within 18" and against units that deep strike.

It really depends on his meta. If flyers aren't a major concern, I wouldn't bother. Also, I think the Deredeo is the better AA option, as it can do double-duty of popping armor at range.

They work just as well on a unit outflanking
Aye i prefer a deredeo but the list can probably spare an elite slot better than it can a heavy slot.

 King Amroth wrote:
They work just as well on a unit outflanking
Aye i prefer a deredeo but the list can probably spare an elite slot better than it can a heavy slot.

Eh. The Scorpius in my list could easily go over to the Deredeo. Sure, it loses one more Barrage unit, but that isn't that important compared to having a balanced approach, imo. The original list has a Heavy slot open. Elites are packed full and rightfully so! Quad Mortars are brutal.

I agree that the army seems vulnerable to an alpha-strike army with drop pods or heavy amounts of outflanking and flyers. It also seems vulnerable to large amounts of AV 14 played aggressively.

What happens if Perturabo deep strikes and the enemy just drives past him to murder the rest of the army with whatever is in their Spartan? Or, worse, what happens if they counterattack Perturabo and kill him in one round? 10 Terminators with no upgrades isn't exactly an overwhelming amount of offensive power and if you soften them up with a couple of AP2 blasts beforehand it should be well within the realm of possibility for most armies to kill them off without much difficulty. The assault squads also seem like a very thin reed to rest on with no real ability to hurt things like terminators or dreadnoughts.

The army relies on its quad mortars being able to kill stuff, and the Havocs and Medusas being able to fill in the gaps. But Medusas are unreliable and if the terrain doesn't give them a place to hide they can be killed easily. I like them, but they're nothing to build an army around, and if the enemy kills them what do you have that can kill Terminators? Or Spartans with Flare Shields?

I think the army could be greatly improved just by adding upgrades and weapons to the Terminators and maybe the assault squads too. Some additional sources of mobility or, better still, mobile firepower would be great, like the aforementioned dreadnoughts with assault cannon. I would drop one unit of the Quad Mortars to pay for that.

 Saber wrote:
I agree that the army seems vulnerable to an alpha-strike army with drop pods or heavy amounts of outflanking and flyers. It also seems vulnerable to large amounts of AV 14 played aggressively.

What happens if Perturabo deep strikes and the enemy just drives past him to murder the rest of the army with whatever is in their Spartan? Or, worse, what happens if they counterattack Perturabo and kill him in one round? 10 Terminators with no upgrades isn't exactly an overwhelming amount of offensive power and if you soften them up with a couple of AP2 blasts beforehand it should be well within the realm of possibility for most armies to kill them off without much difficulty. The assault squads also seem like a very thin reed to rest on with no real ability to hurt things like terminators or dreadnoughts.

The army relies on its quad mortars being able to kill stuff, and the Havocs and Medusas being able to fill in the gaps. But Medusas are unreliable and if the terrain doesn't give them a place to hide they can be killed easily. I like them, but they're nothing to build an army around, and if the enemy kills them what do you have that can kill Terminators? Or Spartans with Flare Shields?

I think the army could be greatly improved just by adding upgrades and weapons to the Terminators and maybe the assault squads too. Some additional sources of mobility or, better still, mobile firepower would be great, like the aforementioned dreadnoughts with assault cannon. I would drop one unit of the Quad Mortars to pay for that.

How are Medusas unreliable? S10 AP2 Large Blast is solid against everything except a Flare Shielded AV13+ vehicle. Plus, they nuke squads pretty well too.

I don't get the appeal of the Kheres. Short-range and only S6 with Rending just never wow'd me.

One thing this list absolutely would benefit from is a Primaris-Lightning with a full compliment of Krakens. Especially with Perty letting it zip in on T1, it can nuke a Spartan in one round pretty reliably. Therein lies the problem - not enough points to make a well-rounded list and keep on theme easily, it seems.

Medusas are unreliable because they can be killed easily. Some games the enemy doesn't have the wherewithal to get at them, or they have terrain to hide behind. Other games they get killed easily by an outflanking landspeeder or whatever.

They're a good unit, but they're so fragile that one should hesitate to make them a central focus of an army. This is doubly so in the army presented in this thread which has no real way to screen or protect them due to a lack of other vehicles or expendable troops. I'm not against including them; I'm against having them as the sole source of ranged AP 2 and the only thing that can engage a Spartan. The army needs redundancy to compliment the Medusas.

Wow, thanks for all the replies, I do appreciate this.
As it has bee nsaid, medusas here are primaly for killing vehicles which havocs and shatter quads can't adecuately threaten while also giving those sweet ironfire markers. The lack of shatter shells and 10-men squads are because there are no spare points for those, really, but dropping 1/3 of quads sove this problem, yeah.
As for bodyguards for Perturabo - it's not like there are many as strong/stronger units anyway, domitar-ferrums, may be, but they cost ungodly amount of points.
The idea of this list was not to be "super-competitive", but "fluffy AND able to win". And yeah, we (at the moment, when most 40k players just starting to move to 30k - apparently, I'm 4th in our club!) don't use flyers - well, we didn't use them that much in 40k either, that's just unmanly, compared to mighty god-men mowing "puny" 6-feet tall angels of death for breakfost and making epic stand-offs every saturday.

 Vexler wrote:
Wow, thanks for all the replies, I do appreciate this.
As it has bee nsaid, medusas here are primaly for killing vehicles which havocs and shatter quads can't adecuately threaten while also giving those sweet ironfire markers. The lack of shatter shells and 10-men squads are because there are no spare points for those, really, but dropping 1/3 of quads sove this problem, yeah.
As for bodyguards for Perturabo - it's not like there are many as strong/stronger units anyway, domitar-ferrums, may be, but they cost ungodly amount of points.
The idea of this list was not to be "super-competitive", but "fluffy AND able to win". And yeah, we (at the moment, when most 40k players just starting to move to 30k - apparently, I'm 4th in our club!) don't use flyers - well, we didn't use them that much in 40k either, that's just unmanly, compared to mighty god-men mowing "puny" 6-feet tall angels of death for breakfost and making epic stand-offs every saturday.

I think flyers can become somewhat common in the heresy as things like the lightning is the best anti tank out there. Fire raptor are also decently good.

It's not that terminators make a bad bodyguard but naked terminators just don't hurt very much. They also have a colloidal foot print with 10 and perty how youd ever deepstike that I don't know.

Shatter shells are definetly worth it as others have mentioned I'd also probably drop medusa down to 2 maybe add a vindicator so it doesn't suffer from the awful squadron rules.

Tbh if i run perty he runs with 10 tyrants and a siege breaker for 20 bs5 tank hunting krak missiles, ive only ever had 1 person try and drive past it with a spartan and that thing got shot in the ass and then the unit inside got charged. I also love the tyrants because you can split fire with the sergeant and therefore you dont overkill a unit and have nothing to charge.

Titanicus wrote:
They also have a colloidal foot print with 10 and perty how youd ever deepstike that I don't know.

Oh. Something to consider, yeah.

 King Amroth wrote:
Tbh if i run perty he runs with 10 tyrants and a siege breaker for 20 bs5 tank hunting krak missiles, ive only ever had 1 person try and drive past it with a spartan and that thing got shot in the ass and then the unit inside got charged. I also love the tyrants because you can split fire with the sergeant and therefore you dont overkill a unit and have nothing to charge.

And how do you generally deploy and use them?

If your playing friendly, drop the quads in a heartbeat.

Competitive games?
Add shatter shell's to your quads.

Then things like flyers and mechanicum really become meaningless.
36 S8 shots tend to go through just about anything.
Just watch out for AV14 with flare shields.


If you want models up field, take siege terminators with peturbo.
They will decimate just about anything and add to your shooting.
More S8 AP3 will never go amiss.





My only concern is orbital assault armies.
I've taken to running my legions under orbital as it gets me where I need to be turn 1.
Also gives shooting armies a huge headache as they don't have the time to weaken the units.

The problem with deep striking squads is at least a bit mitigated with Iron havocs w/augury scanners. All in all, yeah, I guess I'm not interested in being "That Guy", so there is a second attempt to list:


Centurion; siege breaker, phosphex bomb, cataphractii = 140
Centurion; primus medicae, cataphractii, lightning claw = 135

2 Rapier quad launcher; phosphex = 160
2 Rapier quad launcher; phosphex = 160

15 Legion assault marines; 3 power weapons, power fist, artificer = 295
15 Legion assault marines; 3 power weapons, power fist, artificer = 295

10 Iron havocs; autocannons, augury scanner = 315
10 Iron havocs; lascannons, augury scanner = 465
10 Tyrant siege terminators = 545

Perturabo; forgebreaker = 490

Don't let people make you think you are being "that guy". You aren't. Your original list with some tweaks was fine and on theme for Ironfire. Now it really doesn't even factor in if you go for that RoW.

I think you have way too many points tied up in Havocs. I would cut one unit and bolster your army elsewhere. Apothecaries for the Assault Squads for sure. Shatter shells for sure.

I do like that you went full infantry/artillery. That is going to deny the enemy much use out of their dedicated antitank weaponry beyond pointing it at Perty.

Maxed quads in friendly games isn't all that friendly.
Considering they get the same reception as things like wraithknights and scatterbikes lol.

Fluffy is 1 thing, but maxing out the best 30k unit to be fluffy?




In any case, shatter shell's are worth every point.
They give you the extra flexibility to remove armour if needed.


I do agree about the havocs though.
They really aren't all that great to be fair.
The lascannons unit especially as it's a huge sink in points.


I would avoid armour though.
As it stands, you have none.
Taking 1-2 tanks gives the enemy something to fire all those S7+ weapons at.
As it stands, all they can shoot is infantry.

I've found armour is sort of all or nothing in 30k.
With the wide range of tank weapons about, taking them in small numbers is a death sentence.

 Jackal wrote:
Fluffy is 1 thing, but maxing out the best 30k unit to be fluffy?

Hey, that's the style of fluffy I certainly like

Also, I've almost entirely forgot that there is another source of barrages - whirlwind scorpius, so I've also made list based on them:

Centurion; forge lord, cataphractii, rad grenades = 130
Centurion; primus medicae, cataphractii = 130
Damocles command rhino = 100

10 Legion terminators; 2 plasma blasters, 8 chainfists = 435
3 Rapiers; heavy bolters = 120
3 Rapiers; heavy bolters = 120
3 Rapiers; heavy bolters = 120

20 Legion assault marines; 4 power weapons, power fist, artificer = 370
20 Legion assault marines; 4 power weapons, power fist, artificer = 370
20 Legion assault marines; 4 power weapons, power fist, artificer = 370

Legion whirlwind scorpius = 115
Legion whirlwind scorpius = 115
Legion whirlwind scorpius = 115

Perturabo; forgebreaker = 490

Scorpiuses are for barreging the enemy, rapiers to cover them (18 shrapnel bolts from either squad is nothing to sniff at IMO and mathematically), everything else is for deepstriking into enemies deployment zone turn 1 (with the help of Damocles), utilizing furious charge from Perturabo's "relentless strategist" rule.