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Sgt. Cortez wrote:


The Space Marines are hilarious in that they try to be the awesomest of the awesome - however they fight for the worst oppression you could ever imagine. They want to be superheroes but are actually SS-villains and it doesn't matter if they fight for the Imperium or Chaos.

I've always seen the SM like the typical villains of 40k too In fact I only like SW as they don't have those fascist ancient rome inspired details or anything to do with crusaders, inquisition and the typical religious fanatism that other chapters have. They're more like vikings with pagan references, I love them

The new guilliman is certainly among the nastiest super villains ever seen in sci fi environments. Which contributes to keep the 40k universe grim dark.

 Storm Shadow wrote:
C'thulu.

Hmm not really. At all.

The setting for the RPG Paranoia.

On the subject of Lovecraft, CthulhuTech. Mythos lore crossed with Evangelion tropes and flavoured with a dash of cyberpunk, to produce a setting with the screwed-up bits of all three.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Whatever is on the other side of the FTL drive in Event Horizon must be pretty darn horrid, or at least on par with the Warp.

There is a theory out there which states that Event Horizon is the 40k universe, just much closer to our time now. And what happened was that the "Event" went into to warp with out Geller shields.


Have any of you guys heard of a game called Cthulhu Tech? That universe is pretty messed up.


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 AnomanderRake wrote:
On the subject of Lovecraft, CthulhuTech. Mythos lore crossed with Evangelion tropes and flavoured with a dash of cyberpunk, to produce a setting with the screwed-up bits of all three.

Just mentioned this game, those magic batteries that Chrysalis makes

Lovecraft?

Perdido Street Station by China Mieville is pretty messed up. All of the worst aspects of the Industrial Revolution combined with an oppressive, all-powerful regime similar to that of the Empire and all kinds of perverse horrors ready to taint the meaningless lives of anyone who turns the wrong street corner.

World of Darkness and maybe 2000AD`?

Give me a day or two with Stellaris and we'll see what I can come up with.

 Luciferian wrote:
Perdido Street Station by China Mieville is pretty messed up. All of the worst aspects of the Industrial Revolution combined with an oppressive, all-powerful regime similar to that of the Empire and all kinds of perverse horrors ready to taint the meaningless lives of anyone who turns the wrong street corner.

Yeah, the world he created is seriously dark and screwed throughout all the books set therein. It's like someone did an "Mature" rated Dr. Who setting (Main character is a fat black guy with a lover who has a bug's head on a model's body. Cactus people. ) Awesome and evocative books though!

KayTwo wrote:

There is a theory out there which states that Event Horizon is the 40k universe, just much closer to our time now. And what happened was that the "Event" went into to warp with out Geller shields.

Totally. I love EH, and I've thought for years that it's basically a very early experience of the Warp by humanity in what would become the 40k universe.

The Mutant Chronicles Universe that Warzone is set in is pretty dark, although I don't know if it can compare to 40k since it's set in one solar system.

On the other hand the fact it's set in one solar system, with the Dark Legion coming from Pluto, the Earth a radioactive wasteland, and the system planets warred over by the armies of the MegaCorps means there's not as much chance of getting away from it as there is in 40k. There's no equivalent of Ultramar for example.

Cthulhutech and its main inspirations (namely HP Lovecraft's work and Neon Genesis Evangelion) is a pretty nasty one. The Imperium is collapsing but there is still the messainic promise of the return to a lost golden age, which makes one wonder sometimes if it is perhaps the victim of its own excessive cruelty and dogmatism. With the NEG (the ruling government of Earth in the Cthulhutech setting) however, humanity is at the very peak of its capabilities and there is much more of a sense of utter desperation when one realises that no amout of human ingenuity or heroism is ever going to be enough to stem the tide.

 Rippy wrote:

 Storm Shadow wrote:
C'thulu.

Hmm not really. At all.

I totally agree. Lovecraft's work is dark and I like it a lot but most of it can be summarized in this rough formula:

- Impending doom that is outside the realm of mortal understanding
- The normal population is unaware and lives their normal lives.
- Those who peer into the unknown risk going mad.
- There are some mad or evil backwater cults who dabble in that what should not be known, some of them hasten the end others become monsters themselves.
- Those who try to investigate it are nearly always part of the intellectual elite risk becoming discredited if they publish their findings and most often fail horrible at stopping the impeding doom.

Most of this is already part of the 40k setting.The eldar evils take the form of the dark gods or nasty tentacled monsters from out of the void and both attract cults and the IoM isn't winning.
40k is less grim dark in the part that investigators are believed in their findings and are supported ( at least partly) by the official institutions. However I would say that this is more than compensated by the fact that regular live of a human is stuff of nightmares and all the other horrible stuff that is going on in the setting.

The Star Wars universe
The Republic and the Rebel Alliance/New Republic tolerates a lot of immoral stuff to go on in the Galaxy such as slavery, murder and torture and all of that stuff, and they don't bat an eye to be politically correct. For example, the hutts exist and they go around doing a lot of crap and the Republic is like "eh". If it was the Imperium in that position, they would genocide the hutts out of existence and nuke their worlds, as they should. Also, they don't do anything about creatures like the Sarlacc ; 1,000 years of painful digestion? Screw that, not even dark eldar is that cruel; the Imperium would genocide those creatures out of existence as well, as they should, because 1000 years of painful digestion is nothing to scoff at (I dont know how Luke Skywalker can live with himself after he pushed people down into the Sarlacc; 'I'm gonna let live beings get digested alive for 1000 years to be politically correct'). Also the Republic pretends to be all morally superior and stuff, when they're using clones, making deals with hutts, trade with slavers

 DragonRaptor wrote:
; 1,000 years of painful digestion? Screw that, not even dark eldar is that cruel

Also the Republic pretends to be all morally superior and stuff, when they're using clones, making deals with hutts, trade with slavers

O boy you are going to have a blast reading upon the horrors that are hidden in the 40k Dark eldar and IoM fluff ; )


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 DragonRaptor wrote:
the Imperium would genocide those creatures out of existence as well,

Actually... those worms seem to pose little danger to society or the empire. They do not appear to be mobile, intelligent or compete for any of the resources the IoM is after. The IoM will probably just classify them as local harmless fauna. Some cunning biologist might even decide that they have some commercial value after some minor genetic engineering.

Here are a few examples creatures that are allowed to exist inside the IoM.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Kraken_(Sea_Creature)
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Netherworms
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Osedex
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Wire_Weed

 DragonRaptor wrote:
The Star Wars universe
The Republic and the Rebel Alliance/New Republic tolerates a lot of immoral stuff to go on in the Galaxy such as slavery, murder and torture and all of that stuff, and they don't bat an eye to be politically correct. For example, the hutts exist and they go around doing a lot of crap and the Republic is like "eh". If it was the Imperium in that position, they would genocide the hutts out of existence and nuke their worlds, as they should. Also, they don't do anything about creatures like the Sarlacc ; 1,000 years of painful digestion? Screw that, not even dark eldar is that cruel; the Imperium would genocide those creatures out of existence as well, as they should, because 1000 years of painful digestion is nothing to scoff at (I dont know how Luke Skywalker can live with himself after he pushed people down into the Sarlacc; 'I'm gonna let live beings get digested alive for 1000 years to be politically correct'). Also the Republic pretends to be all morally superior and stuff, when they're using clones, making deals with hutts, trade with slavers

Lol no. The worse elements of Star Wars would be the kindest and most honorable good guys in 40k.

And no, the Imperium wouldn't genocide the Hutts because of slavery or selling drugs, they'd do it because the Hutts are filthy xenos and xenos must die. The Imperium is perfectly happy to deal in slaves, conscripted troops, converting people into mindless servitors, etc, if it's to the Imperium's benefit. The Imperium's primary objection to slavery as it exists in Star Wars would be that it's disorganized and inefficient, consisting primarily of wealthy individuals and their personal household servants. I mean, in the best look we get at slavery in Star Wars, the "slaves" have their own house, adequate food, the mother is allowed to raise her child, they're allowed to have guests over without their owner's permission, etc. The only "slavery" aspect seems to be that they aren't permitted to seek employment elsewhere. Such kind treatment would be a spectacular waste of resources in the eyes of the Imperium. Cut the living space to rooms of bunks with just enough space for the slaves to lie down, take away all of their individual possessions, take the kids away to be raised in more efficient groups, etc. And forget all this individual ownership nonsense where people have a couple of household servants, enslave entire planets and put them to work in factories for the benefit of the Imperium. And that's the situation on a good planet in the Imperium, if you aren't so lucky things are much worse.

 Yougottapaythetrolltoll wrote:
Warhammer 40,000 is undoubtedly one of the darkest and one of the most morbid universes in all of fiction. But is there a fictional universe that is much worse? Whether it's sci-fi or fantasy what is this universe?

Matrix (in the movie) could be a strong contender, except for those who are not aware of it's nature And Zardoz! The whole post-apocalyptic genre?

Conan the Barbarian (due to the gory aspect in writing), Michael Moorcock's Elric & al (whom GW strongly borrowed), A.C. Clarke's Rendezvous with Rama (where earth gets destroyed and it's just inevitable, sorry) etc.

I recall seeing a short film where the society gave everyone 1000 credits when they were born. This currency was also one's life in years - one could get more years running a business etc., but one could as well waste everything in booze before turning twenty. That kind of vision about a society was rather morbid, to me at least.

It kind of depends on your view of "morbid".

 DragonRaptor wrote:
The Star Wars universe
The Republic and the Rebel Alliance/New Republic tolerates a lot of immoral stuff to go on in the Galaxy such as slavery, murder and torture and all of that stuff, and they don't bat an eye to be politically correct. For example, the hutts exist and they go around doing a lot of crap and the Republic is like "eh". If it was the Imperium in that position, they would genocide the hutts out of existence and nuke their worlds, as they should. Also, they don't do anything about creatures like the Sarlacc ; 1,000 years of painful digestion? Screw that, not even dark eldar is that cruel; the Imperium would genocide those creatures out of existence as well, as they should, because 1000 years of painful digestion is nothing to scoff at (I dont know how Luke Skywalker can live with himself after he pushed people down into the Sarlacc; 'I'm gonna let live beings get digested alive for 1000 years to be politically correct'). Also the Republic pretends to be all morally superior and stuff, when they're using clones, making deals with hutts, trade with slavers

You really haven't dived very deep in to 40k if you think the Star Wars universe is more screwed up. They are not even close. Not even close to being close. Star Wars universe is all love and happiness in comparison. It actually has hope.

Hope is the first step on the path to disappointment.

I'm still fairly sure this planet and this timeline are worse than the 40K universe.

On average, 40K planets are home to less evil.

I mean, in the best look we get at slavery in Star Wars, the "slaves" have their own house, adequate food, the mother is allowed to raise her child, they're allowed to have guests over without their owner's permission, etc. The only "slavery" aspect seems to be that they aren't permitted to seek employment elsewhere.

Watto was a very kind slave owner, and then we have such gems as the Empire using Wookies as slave labor to construct stuff for the Death Star and casually letting them die by the thousands in labor camps. EU before it got cut had far better examples of cruel taskmasters and slavers.

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:
Hope is the first step on the path to disappointment.

You would be lucky to only be disappointed in the IoM. A little government oppression is as bad as it gets in Star Wars. Standard society is much worse than this on every level in 40k



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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

I mean, in the best look we get at slavery in Star Wars, the "slaves" have their own house, adequate food, the mother is allowed to raise her child, they're allowed to have guests over without their owner's permission, etc. The only "slavery" aspect seems to be that they aren't permitted to seek employment elsewhere.

Watto was a very kind slave owner, and then we have such gems as the Empire using Wookies as slave labor to construct stuff for the Death Star and casually letting them die by the thousands in labor camps. EU before it got cut had far better examples of cruel taskmasters and slavers.

Off topic, but the second aftermath book shows Kashyyk in a very brutal way, much worse than the EU managed to portray it IMO.

Any universe that considers Janeway a hero of any kind.