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A delay on a PB product. That's a shocker /s

Sining wrote:
A delay on a PB product. That's a shocker /s

But it's not a PB product! /s

Morgan Vening wrote:


There's also another tidbit of information that might be relevant. "I will be shipping out from Windsor ON for us Canadians.". That doesn't parse as all shipments will be sent from Ontario. Which would be what a truly independent company would do. I wonder where else they could ship from in the continental United States....

Yeah, still not buying that this isn't some kind of shell company for Palladium. I'd want to see the shipping docket from the manufacturer listing a Canadian address before I accepted otherwise, and Carmen not just shuffling the likely much smaller Canadian contingent through the Michigan/Ontario border.

US orders certainly wouldn't be shipping from the Palladium warehouse because like they are totally separate and independent companies.

Caveat Emptor on this one.

Is anyone really going to back this? Palladium's involvement is not known (and nothing says Kevin won't interfere), and Carmen, the creator, already had a suicide attempt after two hours in the RRT comments.

Retail is always an option. At the least, if you wait for retail, you won't be contributing towards the stress Carmen will have in fulfilling a KS project. If he has a mental breakdown after funding, the last thing he needs is to respond to backer demands for a refund.

I won't back.

I'd say this was very much 'retail is not an option' as I doubt it will get there unless the KS is a success,

I suspect backing will be fairly high risk though

Ah, a Rifts miniature game...

Does it use the Rifts RPG rules? Will we get to spend 30 minutes playing out 8 seconds of combat, accounting for every nick and scratch, only to discover one side has no hope of winning because they brought dog boys, city rats, and a cyber doc with default SDC gear against a Glitterboy, Borg, and Mindmelter with MDC armor and weapons?

I have finished off the first batch of figures sent to me, and they are now back with Rogue Heroes for them to film their demo videos ready for their Kickstarter which is starting this Monday (3pm Canadian time)
Leyland line wizard

Borg

Grackletooth

Juicer Sniper

The completed group

I will be getting some more figures to paint in the next couple of weeks.
If you want more info please see links in first post as I am only the painter and unable to awnser any questions.

Cool, some nice iconic figures there.

Those look really nice, both the figures and paint job. Hopefully they end up for sale at some point, but the creator seems completely unstable :(

Something looks... off about the scale of those figures. What is there size?

As to the unstable comment- most definably. That's why they have no business with your cash.

Would be fun to have an 'official' Glitterboy for my character. I've been using a converted Iron Man Warmachine figure for mine, but he's a little tall for a 10' character, more like 12-14 feet.

It's great fun though- I own the most powerful non-vehicle gun in the game, but my character prefers melee combat against monsters, Pacific Rim-style.

The minis look decent but I'd certainly pass on this one.

I was a fan of the Rifts setting back when it released 20+ years ago but it hasn't aged well with me and I'm just not interested in it anymore. There's also the consideration of Palladium and their undelivered Robotech kickstarter, so even if I were interested I wouldn't touch it until it were physically available on the shelf. Their history KS campaigns and pre-order items that are years behind schedule are just too risky to put good money on.

I would feel better if Savage Worlds was putting out the models alongside their rules adaptation (which is awesome and runs 1,000 better than the old system). Stories of Palladium worry me.

Same here. I'd have loved Rifts minis four years ago even though I haven't played in a Rifts campaign in 10 years (that campaign was an on/off one for 15 years that got me into gaming btw). Now? Not so much. The minis look ok (the coalition stuff) to good (the red borg) but there is no way that I'll give palladium even a penny of my money whether directly or indirectly until wave 2 is delivered (and, yes, to head off any tryhards out there that might try ask me if I *really* think wave 2 will ever come... no, I don't). This, along with Savage Worlds, is firmly in my used purchase camp. If I can preferrably trade for it with another player (or possibly pick it up used at a big discount) then I'll consider getting it since Palladium won't see a penny of that transaction.

Until then, I'll honestly relate my abysmal four year and counting with no end in sight experience with Palladium (which Carmen was an integral part of) to any independent community (like Dakka) I'm a member of to make sure that potential backers are realistically warned of their prospects. I will *NOT* pledge a dollar for his campaign though just to comment (I didn't with Savage Worlds either) nor will I engage in any futile discussions on Palladium owned or operated venues like the Megaversal forum or their facebook pages. If people don't do a simple web search to find out just how bad the customer experience is with Palladium then that's on them. As for Rogue Heroes being a separate company, Palladium made the initial announcement, is the primary source/origin of advertising, as has creative control/approval over all content. Despite what some Canadian legal form says, I consider them one and the same. That is especially true as Carmen trained under the tutelage of his mentor Kevin and I can't realistically believe that he didn't pick up a multitude of bad habits from his "friend", mentor, boss, and now licensor.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I would feel better if Savage Worlds was putting out the models alongside their rules adaptation (which is awesome and runs 1,000 better than the old system). Stories of Palladium worry me.

*That* is a good idea. Pinnacle Entertainment Group has put out metal miniatures for its various Savage World RPG lines, so it's not like they don't have any miniatures experience.

Even if the game doesn't hit retail, that doesn't mean the miniatures can't.

ced1106 wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I would feel better if Savage Worlds was putting out the models alongside their rules adaptation (which is awesome and runs 1,000 better than the old system). Stories of Palladium worry me.

*That* is a good idea. Pinnacle Entertainment Group has put out metal miniatures for its various Savage World RPG lines, so it's not like they don't have any miniatures experience.

Even if the game doesn't hit retail, that doesn't mean the miniatures can't.

Carmen likely licensed the exclusive rights before PEG approached Palladium.

Nice stuff, I'll definitely want to hear more WHEN THEY HIT RETAIL.

In fact I'd advise them to put the game and KS on hold, put these out now and us those sales to help fund the game.

A dozen or so high quality Rifts figures are a much easier proposition than creating, printing, packing and shipping a board game.

That's probably the prudent choice given the collosal fulfillment failure of Carmen's and Kevin's previous crowdfunding endeavor but it's so much less prestigious/ambitious for two such talented (at least according to humble multigenre redefining Kevin himself) folks. For all we know (and I have no concrete details), Carmen needs this to go big in order to feasibly pay Kevin for the next part of the license. IIRC, one of them said he had been working on this for years so likely the renewal time is drawing near with no product yet to show for it.

Regardless, I expect this project to hit 6 digits easily despite the issues surrounding both Carmen and the association of Palladium and all the baggage both entail. The Savage Rifts ks proves beyond a doubt that there are plenty of nostalgic fans who either don't know about the issues or don't care once they do.

You know, beyond the total instability of the project creator and their unsavory business connections, and the complete mess of all connected prior crowdfunding I am having a hard time even wanting to back this because the miniatures really just do not look good.

I genuinely thought they would be putting a better product forward, but these look really good for 10-15 years ago, not the market today.

 warboss wrote:
That's probably the prudent choice given the collosal fulfillment failure of Carmen's and Kevin's previous crowdfunding endeavor but it's so much less prestigious/ambitious for two such talented (at least according to humble multigenre redefining Kevin himself) folks. For all we know (and I have no concrete details), Carmen needs this to go big in order to feasibly pay Kevin for the next part of the license. IIRC, one of them said he had been working on this for years so likely the renewal time is drawing near with no product yet to show for it.

Regardless, I expect this project to hit 6 digits easily despite the issues surrounding both Carmen and the association of Palladium and all the baggage both entail. The Savage Rifts ks proves beyond a doubt that there are plenty of nostalgic fans who either don't know about the issues or don't care once they do.

Carmen's mentioned that it's nearing the point he needs to do something or else the license will lapse. He's mentioned it being 18 months worth of work, Kevin mentioned it's been two years, and a PBWU from March 1st 2012 (five years ago) has it mentioned there. So it's pretty clear neither of these two could lie straight in bed. He's also mentioned having sunk way too much in personally, that he can't afford to let it go.

I'm also expecting it to hit six figures. Would not surprise me at all if it hit 300K total, and 100K in the first 48 hours. Because I think there are way too many people out there who don't make considerations when it comes to Kickstarters. I think people who do comment, or even lurk, think more do than actually do. So, for all the expectation that it'll be a rowdy place in the commentary, I expect most backers to not look. They'll see the front page, and make a decision based on that. And take into account the speed of funding, which given the PB fanbois, is going to be very fast, very early.

Carmen's mentioned only having the single pledge level, but I think he'd do well to consider offering both the miniatures separate, and the game separate (using cardboard standees). And then the combined pack at a slight discount. I think the market would be there for both options, and the packing complexity is minimal, and would attract some backers that wouldn't otherwise back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Swabby wrote:
You know, beyond the total instability of the project creator and their unsavory business connections, and the complete mess of all connected prior crowdfunding I am having a hard time even wanting to back this because the miniatures really just do not look good.

I genuinely thought they would be putting a better product forward, but these look really good for 10-15 years ago, not the market today.

I don't think they're bad (one of the Skelebots excepted, it's knee is all kinds of fethed). I've seen people praise them as awesome, but I'm suspecting a lot of that is being PB insular (so a fan of the artwork) and not having much interest in the level of quality for miniatures of this type. GW, Malifaux, PPress, all make these look meh if you're not looking at them through PB colored lenses. They either don't know better, or don't care to know better.

That they're going to be boardgame plastic, is an issue for painting. It's why people were happy RRT was going to be in a more rigid plastic to begin with (and regardless of what PB say, no they did NOT have to be split that way), so as board game counters, they're passable. I just hope people don't have high expectations of their paintjobs holding up under significant play. I can see the potential for a lot of flaking as a result of regular play. Have seen it a lot in other wargames where people have used softer plastic toys as proxies.

This has all the signs of being a dumpster fire like Defiance Games fiasco. There are enough posts in this thread to make everyone realize that they'll likely not see a return on their investment any time soon, if at all.

As I said in the Defiance thread, "You were warned. Everyone on Dakka was warned."

 Breotan wrote:
This has all the signs of being a dumpster fire like Defiance Games fiasco.

Oh, it'll be a disaster, to be sure. If Carmen attempted suicide after a couple hours of manic posting on RRT, before coming down to reality, imagine how well he's going to handle legit concerns and backer ire from people who put real money down and expect him to deliver. Can his fragile mind handle it?

 Breotan wrote:
This has all the signs of being a dumpster fire like Defiance Games fiasco. There are enough posts in this thread to make everyone realize that they'll likely not see a return on their investment any time soon, if at all.

As I said in the Defiance thread, "You were warned. Everyone on Dakka was warned."

It's worth noting that Palladium did produce one wave of RTT before the 4+ years of hot air.

Even Defiance produced 2 or 3 kits before folding up and taking everyone's money.

So they seem less like scams and more like incompetence.

Alas this project is not exactly brimming over with signs of competence. I really think scaling back now, early, to just minis and showing they can do that would go a long way to helping.

As Palladium themselves said producing a game is vastly more complex than just books, or just models. It adds the need for boxes, packing, shipping and vastly multiplies the number of partners.

They fact that physical models exist gives us some small amount of confidence, why not focus on that?

I can only say for myself. I'll purchase these when they are on a shelf in a store in person. I won't back any kickstarter run by or associated with Kevin or Palladium again. I won't even order anything from him. Zero trust in the people there. The miniatures however look great.

I'm not filled with confidence on this one. At all.

Hm, those Deadboys are... well, the prototypes exists and are mostly correct, that's something. Other than that I must say that they are kind of underwhelming. I think I'd be better of getting some more Eisenkern stormtroopers, maybe with a head swap.

I do like the grackle and the cyborg, though.

The Borg looks cool.

but at the end of the day, it's Rifts. And Rifts is a gigantic practical joke, I'm sure.

 Swabby wrote:
You know, beyond the total instability of the project creator and their unsavory business connections, and the complete mess of all connected prior crowdfunding I am having a hard time even wanting to back this because the miniatures really just do not look good.

I genuinely thought they would be putting a better product forward, but these look really good for 10-15 years ago, not the market today.

Remember, as I understand it, these are single-piece (or maybe two piece) board game minis. Sadly they won't be proper wargame miniatures etc.