[KS] Rogue Heroes Rifts Boardgame-Project Cancelled May 13

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Lynx7725**

Eh I've tossed a dollar on it just to be able to access info. Not intending to post anything there, this one can succeed or fail on its own merits.

Overall from my experience on KS (be it what it may, including RRT), this one looks a bit stretchy. Target seems a bit high -- we are talking about a boardgame not a RPG book -- and bundles/ offers look low.

He's basically looking for a 1000 backers... eh ok, that's a bit high for a boardgame of a niche universe IMO, but not unreachable. Price point looks a tad bit high but that could be just me. Early Bird pricing looks.. still a bit high, but close enough to wallet comfortable.

Add-ons are basically not worth the trouble. I might up pledge just to get a few minis for the sake of it, but they look to be mono-cast with no options, so not too keen on them. Fair deal to them, that's pretty industrial standard for boardgames.

Stretch goals are not much at the moment, but an extra 30K for colour on 64 pages? Eh, 64x1300 is a significant number of pages, I not too sure where he's getting his printing done.

At least the delivery date is believable for the current content.

Overall.. Yeah ok this might fund, but I don't think there'd be a big wave of backers driving the money up.

**Steve Dubya**

I'll be "that guy."

1) What is the periodicity of the license, meaning when will the license expire/require renewing? While the amount could probably be eventually expressed mathematically once the KS has a goal, I imagine that the existing license was a flat rate - will it be a flat rate to renew, or will it be a percentage of the KS funding/distribution?
1a) I see that two Palladium employees (Wayne and Kevin) are listed as "Collaborators;" what assurances are there that PB will not take control of the project?
2) As the intention of the KS is to create a production run to make it into distribution, what will the break-even numbers for various print runs?
3) What is the pool size of playtesters for the game?
4) How many production samples of the miniatures have been acquired, and has a manufacturer been decided upon?
5) Have the various timeline goalposts been identified (e.g. artwork finalized, miniature molds completed, packaging at distribution site)? When and how will those be shared with backers?
6) How will game errata be addressed? Will the rules for the game be provided to backers prior to being finalized?
7) Have potentially-friendly reviewers been identified and contacted about review copies of the game? Here I'm talking about game reviewers that have generally favorable views for this style of game, and thus might be best able to speak to its strengths, not necessarily reviewers that will provide solely positive reviews.
8) Finally, what sort of insurance/reassurance is there that the project will be protected in the event of single point failure? I think it would be remiss to ignore the fact that the project creator attempted suicide barely over two and a half months ago regarding the possibility that the project could go sideways.

Curious how many of these will actually get responses.

**warboss**

Lynx7725 wrote:

Overall from my experience on KS (be it what it may, including RRT), this one looks a bit stretchy. Target seems a bit high -- we are talking about a boardgame not a RPG book -- and bundles/ offers look low.

While I don't think the value is there (compared with things like the Star Wars Assault game) but that's what stretch goals are for. The one thing I would agree with is the initial funding goal and I thought they might try to lowball it like Palladium did (iirc 30% lower while also including the cost of shipping).

**FacelessMage**

Steve Dubya wrote:
I'll be "that guy."

1) What is the periodicity of the license, meaning when will the license expire/require renewing? While the amount could probably be eventually expressed mathematically once the KS has a goal, I imagine that the existing license was a flat rate - will it be a flat rate to renew, or will it be a percentage of the KS funding/distribution?
1a) I see that two Palladium employees (Wayne and Kevin) are listed as "Collaborators;" what assurances are there that PB will not take control of the project?
2) As the intention of the KS is to create a production run to make it into distribution, what will the break-even numbers for various print runs?
3) What is the pool size of playtesters for the game?
4) How many production samples of the miniatures have been acquired, and has a manufacturer been decided upon?
5) Have the various timeline goalposts been identified (e.g. artwork finalized, miniature molds completed, packaging at distribution site)? When and how will those be shared with backers?
6) How will game errata be addressed? Will the rules for the game be provided to backers prior to being finalized?
7) Have potentially-friendly reviewers been identified and contacted about review copies of the game? Here I'm talking about game reviewers that have generally favorable views for this style of game, and thus might be best able to speak to its strengths, not necessarily reviewers that will provide solely positive reviews.
8) Finally, what sort of insurance/reassurance is there that the project will be protected in the event of single point failure? I think it would be remiss to ignore the fact that the project creator attempted suicide barely over two and a half months ago regarding the possibility that the project could go sideways.

Curious how many of these will actually get responses.

A dollar pledge says zero.

**warboss**

Steve Dubya wrote:

Curious how many of these will actually get responses.

Does revoking your pledge and removing the comment count as a response? That's what I'd expect given that Carmen trained under Palladium and enjoys the fruits of NMI's labor.

Speaking of removed comments, I don't see the inflammatory Robotech comments under the Rogue Heroes comment list or even that they backed. Did Carmen get a refund and/or the comments he made about hoping Robotech burns get removed?

edit: It's apparently under a separate account now renamed "Casey". https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/comments?cursor=15949843#comment-15949842

I didn't realize when it happened that his "burn" comment was only the second one he made apparently with only one other poster inbetween that comment and his introductory comment.

**Asterios**

also curious why Carmen changed his name on Kickstarter to Casey?

**Genoside07**

Carmen is saying the project is 90% done but not planning a completion date of June 2019 (two years) ..
Is that some type of special Canadian math I don't know about?

**Elbows**

It's Palladiumath.

**Asterios**

well after the brief just started surge which is usual of most kickstarters, this project has started slowing down and well shy of their goal.(less then a third

)

**n815e**

It's apparently under a separate account now renamed "Casey". https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/comments?cursor=15949843#comment-15949842

How fishy can this thing get?

**Asterios**

n815e wrote:
It's apparently under a separate account now renamed "Casey". https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/comments?cursor=15949843#comment-15949842

How fishy can this thing get?

very.

**Swabby**

Woah that is crazy. What is with the name change? Maybe an attempt to make late screenshotters seem less credible?

**AegisGrimm**

As an aside, anyone who had fun with the Rifts setting back in the day should definitely try out the Savage Worlds take on it. So much fun, and with a game engine that's not broken, either.

**JohnHwangDD**

At least the comments are entertaining..

I wonder if the "trolling" is going to lead to another nervous breakdown.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rogueheroes/rifts-board-game/comments

**Asterios**

Swabby wrote:
Woah that is crazy. What is with the name change? Maybe an attempt to make late screenshotters seem less credible?

yeah well won't work now since I linked his kickstarter profile which is tied to a number and not a name.

**John Prins**

In his comment (which he can't edit), he named himself. Doesn't matter what user name he chooses, unless Kickstarter actually removes his post.

**Alpharius**

Here we go!

There is no Wave 2 ! ! ! 16 minutes ago

This comment has been removed by Kickstarter.

crassus668 41 minutes ago

@rogue if you were handing out wads of money folded up and paper clipped in a paper bag to people randomly. eventually you'll run into people that complain about how the money is folded. Please ignore all the trolls they're just being mean because that's what they do. If they knew the word strawberry offended you they would talk about how to make strawberry shortcake strawberry pie and strawberry ice cream just to piss people off!!! So ignore them and watch where you step because of all the b*******. That being said I'm a backer and I want you to knock this out of the park and I want the board game box to be in orbit and be a second moon for the planet!!!!! Go rogue hero's publishing!!! Woot!!!!

Rogue Heroes Publishing Creator 39 minutes ago

@ crassus668: Thanks for the awesome advice!

**Swabby**

Typical palladium groupthink in action.

**TwoGunBob**

The way kickstarter acts you'd think it was creators paying to keep their lights on and not backers. Glad I'm just a spectator to these fabulous train wrecks these days. Thought about putting a dollar in to comment but honestly any points I was going to make regarding information about the miniatures manufacturer have already been asked and pointedly ignored. Although we do know that no matter what backers will NEVER get the 3D files even if the minis never appear.
Carmen is so far ignoring any real questions while gleefully discussing useless fluff regarding the fictional date his board game takes place in. I will note that I was curious about the size of the minis and they are kind of 28mm but seem a little all over the place rather than consistent although it could be the number of loonies they are putting under the base.

**Asterios**

Alpharius wrote:
Here we go!

There is no Wave 2 ! ! ! 16 minutes ago

This comment has been removed by Kickstarter.

crassus668 41 minutes ago

@rogue if you were handing out wads of money folded up and paper clipped in a paper bag to people randomly. eventually you'll run into people that complain about how the money is folded. Please ignore all the trolls they're just being mean because that's what they do. If they knew the word strawberry offended you they would talk about how to make strawberry shortcake strawberry pie and strawberry ice cream just to piss people off!!! So ignore them and watch where you step because of all the b*******. That being said I'm a backer and I want you to knock this out of the park and I want the board game box to be in orbit and be a second moon for the planet!!!!! Go rogue hero's publishing!!! Woot!!!!

Rogue Heroes Publishing Creator 39 minutes ago

@ crassus668: Thanks for the awesome advice!

yeah got this:

We're sorry, your account is currently under review. Please contact us here for further information: https://www.kickstarter.com/contact.

and then this:

Hello,
This is the third time that we have noticed you posted abusive content. This kind of activity is against our Community Guidelines and it is not permitted. Additionally, our Terms of Use outline that abusive behavior is not tolerated within our community.
Due to your inability to comply with our guidelines, your ability to message has been revoked until Nov 4 2017 6:11 pm EST, your ability to comment has been revoked until Nov 4 2017 6:11 pm EST, and your ability to post on Campus has been revoked until Nov 4 2017 6:11 pm EST.
Please note that further violations may result in the permanent suspension of account privileges, such as the ability to post comments, send messages, and back projects.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Best,
Kickstarter

**TwoGunBob**

Obviously Kickstarter does not want your money. Or rather they want your money but not your mouth. I give them five stars out of five for customer service.

**Asterios**

TwoGunBob wrote:
Obviously Kickstarter does not want your money. Or rather they want your money but not your mouth. I give them five stars out of five for customer service.

and so far the only post I can find really removed was this one here:

just to give some facts down: the project creator Carmen Bellaire, back in February of 2017 (just a few months ago) attempted to take his own life because of some backers who informed him on another kickstarter they would not back any project connected with Palladium books the incident in the words of Kevin Siembieda: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts/1811029 Furthermore a little fact checking will show that this company is located in Windsor Ontario which is not Livonia, Michigan furthermore there is no company of this name to be found in Michigan. and the final word is (which is subjective) that this company is nothing more the a front for Palladium Books which has yet failed to deliver on promised product on another project which they had created called Robotech RPG Tactics, of which this companies owner Carmen Bellaire was very much involved with and worked on. All I have to say to backers is Caveat Emptor "buyer beware". furthermore: the project creator here has threatened RRT backers with making sure the RRT project is not completed unless this project of his funds (yes those are carmens own words), you can go look them up, he has changed his name to hide his posts from backers looking into him, but you can find his posts here: https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/415122038/comments and see how he stated he would put a stranglehold pretty much on RRT if his project here did not fund. he would not help "fix" RRT and would let it burn. (well his responses to the responses since think his initial post was removed by Kickstarter). also if he had nothing to hide why did he change the name on the account to Casey ? so tell em does that sound like a project creator that is worthy of backing?

**Elbows**

I just ate popcorn...but I'm willing to pop some more. This is gonna be good.

**TwoGunBob**

The same has been said by other backers using different words so perhaps Kickstarter's world renowned customer service will come into effect and they'll start stifling a plethora of backers and open a new age of Kickstarter, give us your money and do not question!

Honestly, I'm glad I only got screwed over by 2 of the 3 projects I backed before I wised up. Of the three I know the creator of one and actually understand why he's having so many issues but yeah, very done with that. I'm starting to notice a lot of projects seem completely hosed up with creators cutting and running. I guess the format is still going strong despite all that.

**Asterios**

hey I did my warning, but if people want to throw their money away that is on them.

**Elbows**

The platform still works. There have been plenty of great successes - you just need to do research on who you're backing. Simple as that.

I've had excellent results from the companies I've used with Kickstarter with the exception of two - both of which I knew from the outset were large risks (i.e. Robotech, and Hero Quest 25th). I've no one to blame but myself. However, everything else has been fantastic (if late, that's almost always the case).

I don't back small time single-person projects...those I don't trust.

**Asterios**

yeah well the fact this company says it is in the USA when they are not registered in this country amounts to fraud.

**John Prins**

Elbows wrote:

I don't back small time single-person projects...those I don't trust.

I dunno, small, modestly ambitious projects are generally ok. I'm talking about (for miniatures) somebody casting a few metal figs or some resin terrain. Once you have to start contracting things out (like most plastic minis campaigns), it gets a lot dodgier for inexperienced creators.

Note that Palladium still has approvals over everything in Carmen's KS. That'll feth him up more than anything else, methinks.

**Swabby**

Nice Asterios, I was just getting ready for another legal tsunami but then I remembered they silenced you

**Elbows**

Kevin must be adding a porch to his new home or something, gotta get that Rifts money.