[KS] Rogue Heroes Rifts Boardgame-Project Cancelled May 13

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**ced1106**

Speaking of reading the comments, it's evident that some backers want this KS to succeed, but not-Palladium isn't doing a good job with the campaign.

Sean O'Hayer about 15 hours ago

More add-ons then stretch goals... and the only stretch goal currently available is to add color to the rulebook, something that should be standard.

The longer I watch all of this happening, the less inclined I feel to keep my pledge. This KS feels like it wasn't thought through well...

I'll hang on as long as I can, hoping for things to improve.

Michael Caldwell about 14 hours ago

@tgmoore I could agree, to an extent, but it's not purely conjecture. As a project/program manager myself, if one of my staff committed a gaff like that in such a public way I would simply reassign them; they obviously don't have the temperament to perform in that specific role.

That gaff, added to the small yet numerous other concerns, is (to me) indicative of a)management issues b)disorganization and c)leadership issues.

I'm not poking at anyone. I want this to succeed because of a love for Rifts, something everyone here shares. I hope things do shape up; we need this not only to fund, but to follow through to project completion. We as backers can absolutely make or break this so it is important that we support it, but we need confidence in the creators. I think Carmen's vision is awesome, but he might need some more help.

@Pete well said.

Todd Ferrullo about 14 hours ago

I am not sure what is less professional, Andrew Cooke's comment about not wanting to answer the questions from $1 backers, Carmen deciding to bail on the comments on his KS before even two days have passed or the absurd excuses about not revealing the miniature manufacturer.

I am starting to lose what little faith I have in this project and I am unsure that I will retain my pledge unless things improve (as I expect many other folks are also considering).

Graham Bailey about 3 hours ago

@daquack I'm right there with you, I own all of the Rifts books from PB, and all of the new Savage Worlds stuff too. I've been playing & GM-ing Rifts for decades, and I was very excited by this project as I really wanted to get my hands on quality sculpted Rifts miniatures .However, I feel at the moment that the project isn't being managed in an open, respectful, transparent or respectful manner and this makes me fearful for a positive outcome for this game. Also, it's not great value for money in comparison with other, more successful Kickstarter campaigns.
However, it's early days yet and it *may* gather steam, if the 'creators' get motivated to actually respond to concerns and smarten up their behaviour and responses on here. I'm still hopeful that they can deliver a quality product that I'm happy to play and own.

Iain Row 19 minutes ago

Well, here we are. I have no opinion either way on RRT, beyond the careful note I have taken of the concerns made very clear by certain backers. I am relieved to see that seems to have died down a bit, we have all seen it and we don't need to be reminded every 5 minutes.

What I have a problem with is the objective attributes of this KS compared to other miniatures based board / skirmish / dudes on a map games.
- A black and white rulebook. What? Haven't seen one of them since the 90s
- 20 miniatures, human size. What? Mythic Battles (ignore stretch goals) has packed 37 into their base game, 8 of which are epic monsters/gods.
- A laminated paper gaming mat. What? I can only assume that this is essentially a Paizo flip mat product. These are terrible, they never lie flat, give bad glare in artificial light, and look cheap.
- No indication of game mechanics. Levelling up? Equipment? The campaign mode?
- No stretch goals. A colour rulebook is not a stretch goal, it is a minimum. Maybe Carmen expected this game to go like CMON games, where the funding is so fast that they sneak in parts upgrades and alternate sculpts in to soak up the first few $100k and the "real" stretch goals start coming in around $300k or more. In which case we could be in for a situation where the game isn't "finished" until funding has hit $160k or higher, and that is just not going to happen at this speed.
- No reviews. All other games send advance copies to well-known reviewers like Rahdo, Undead Viking. Nothing here.
- Beta rulebook. Not only not available, confirmed as not even going to be available at any point during the KS. That means it isn't written yet.
- No manufacturer provided. Endure the Stars went out of their way to reassure backers that they had Ludofact on board, and their CEO even penned a long piece on how they planned to help this new company realise their vision.
- No detailed component breakdown. Probably because it is not yet written. In fact, I highly doubt anything is ready even as a mock-up/prototype except the basic combat rules and a gang-fight scenario.
- No promotion. Beasts of War did a legthy piece with the Myth guys about how to launch a successful KS in this new age. Carmen seems to have missed it. Mythic went on roadshows all around France, testing their game in FLGSs. Monolith did the same with Conan. A PB open house is not the same thing. Once again, this demonstrates Carmen has nothing to show anyone.

I strongly suspect that the only things in existence right now are some 3D renders, a handful of painted test sculpts from an unknown manufacturer (the same one used on RRT perhaps?) and the items Carmen showed in his photo. That is so far short of being a full game it is not even funny.

In his defence, I assume that is why he has put 2 years down for delivery. That is basically enough time for him to design the game and produce it. But that is the problem I have here...they are not showing us a product and asking for funds to help make it a reality. They are showing us an idea for a game from someone who has never made such a game in the past (he has written RPG sourcebooks and fiction...how is that even remotely like writing a board game? Unless this game turns out to be Rifts played with figures, which would be hilarious!)

I don't wish him or the company ill, I love Rifts and would love to back it. But right now, the creator and collaborators are asking us to place our money on complete trust. This is why the track record and the involvement of PB matters, and I really hope all the shillers and people who are going to call me a troll (who probably haven't read this far anyway) take this one point away from this post and concede
IT MATTERS ONLY BECAUSE IT IS ALL WE HAVE TO GO ON.

I would be with you in telling all the RRT crowd to pipe down and keep it to their own project, and would have some sympathy for your slightly Putin-like interpretation of all criticism and questioning as a plot or conspiracy against your game, or "revenge", if the KS offering was a professional one. But to be quite honest I have never seen anything so amateurish outside of those hand-drawn ones that get $1

I am amazed it has gotten as much as it has with these issues, and I can only assume it is because of the love so many people have for Rifts. Which is a real shame if they get let down.
PLEASE put these things right. Vampire Hunters had criticism, they cancelled and came back a year later with a manufacturer confirmed, a beta rulebook, a fully planned out path to all their expansions and a business plan.

I CANNOT recommend highly enough that Rogue heroes does the same, relaunch when you are ready or show us that you have more than you are letting us see right now. You need to look credible, if only because the only way people get massive amounts of money right now is courting the ebay flippers who treat this like a business. I don't like it any more than you do, but there is no doubt they pile in in large size for things like CMON knowing they will get delivered. They might be scum, but they are dispassionate and will pile in and fund this baby regardless of RRT revenge issues if they are confident they will get a product they can sell at a margin to Rifts superfans on the secondary market.

Peace.

**Alpharius**

They absolutely should cancel, reconfigure and relaunch.

Kevin should just extend the license for his good friend Carmen.

BUT...I think someone can see that $100K line in sight, and will be too tempted to try and reach it, even though it would probably be a bad thing now.

Plus, aside from the license fee, do we think Palladium gets a cut of everything here, and all future 'sales' (Heh!) too?

**WithintheDungeon**

Ian Row... Whoever and Wherever You are my Hero!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alpharius wrote:
Swabby wrote:
That would be Asterios.

Indeed it would be!

In hindsight, we should have known that wasn't going to end as he predicted as he can't even capitalize the first word in a sentence, and his 'price for silence' was rather low.

I mean they'd have been stupid to have not just paid him off and ended that before it started.

As for this campaign?

It doesn't look good, and unless it overfunds by a ton, I can't see it being successfully delivered.

And then, if it does overfund by a ton, that would be another whole set of issues which would probably sink it too.

Ugh.

That's because over at Palladium the glass is neither half full or half empty... It must be absolutely mind boiling being them... huh?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alpharius wrote:
Plus, aside from the license fee, do we think Palladium gets a cut of everything here, and all future 'sales' (Heh!) too?

Steve Dubya and I tried to make sense of that on the Palladium Books forums... If you can make any sense of some of Carmen's responses You'll be the first.

Link:http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=104&t=152621

FYI: Carmen doesn't understand that cut and percentage.... represent the same idea!

**Steve Dubya**

As they are listed as Collaborators, I'm tempted to ask when Kevin and Wayne are on deck for communication duties, as clearly it won't take away from their busy schedule of not communicating on their own project.

**WithintheDungeon**

Steve Dubya wrote:
As they are listed as Collaborators, I'm tempted to ask when Kevin and Wayne are on deck for communication duties, as clearly it won't take away from their busy schedule of not communicating on their own project.

Are we voting on this cause I would like to vote 1,000 times. Please do it... Please please, please!

**Asterios**

You know as I sit here contemplating Kevin's posting of Carmen's attempted suicide I can't help wondering if we will see this situation down the road.

the RBG project is funded, 2 years down the road, nothing to show for it, Carmen has a relapse and almost attempts to kill himself again Kevin says because of that Carmen needs to take time off form the RBG game to recuperate, the fan friends are gushing all over Carmen with hopes of him getting better and a small go fund me is started for him to help him with bills and such.

Meanwhile in another undelivered kickstarter corner you can here RRT backers saying we told you so

by the way noticed they changed the first stretch goal and judging by the stretch goals posted they are getting very nervous about funding, not too mention losing most of the money to the Government and KS.

me think the ship is sinking and its time to many the life rafts.

**warboss**

For those of you doing the work of informing potential backers about the real but hidden risks of this kickstarter, don't forget to calmly post the facts once in each update's comments. There is no real reason to post/rehash the details every 5 minutes in the general comments but a single reminder in each update is probably a good idea for the health of the community.

**Asterios**

warboss wrote:
For those of you doing the work of informing potential backers about the real but hidden risks of this kickstarter, don't forget to calmly post the facts once in each update's comments. There is no real reason to post/rehash the details every 5 minutes in the general comments but a single reminder in each update is probably a good idea for the health of the community.

Alas I was banned before the 1st. update showed

but think the interested backers are doing enough now that the whole operation is under question. and something tells me the questions they will answer in the next update are going to be very cherry picked and they will lose some backers.

**warboss**

Lol, a white knight who visits dakka is definitely posting there as I just tried catching up and saw a Swordfist Buttwiper profile name. He's apparently not brave enough to post here because he won't have NMI or Wayne to wipe away all reasonable dissent/facts/discussion with red text and warnings when he's proven to be wrong like over on the Megaversal forums or facebook.

**Asterios**

warboss wrote:
Lol, a white knight who visits dakka is definitely posting there as I just tried catching up and saw a Swordfist Buttwiper profile name. He's apparently not brave enough to post here because he won't have NMI or Wayne to wipe away all reasonable dissent/facts/discussion with red text and warnings when he's proven to be wrong like over on the Megaversal forums or facebook.

did you see what his cost analysis was? he honestly thinks that project will make that much in the last day? he is seriously high on something, me i'm thinking the project will go from $80-90K when all is said and done. hes expecting last minute push, problem is he fails to realize those last minute pushes are for stretch goals worthy of getting, this project has none.

**WithintheDungeon**

warboss wrote:
Lol, a white knight who visits dakka is definitely posting there as I just tried catching up and saw a Swordfist Buttwiper profile name. He's apparently not brave enough to post here because he won't have NMI or Wayne to wipe away all reasonable dissent/facts/discussion with red text and warnings when he's proven to be wrong like over on the Megaversal forums or facebook.

In the spirit of having stones... I've entered the fray.

Also I've started thread over at Kicksnarker g+ Here is the link:https://plus.google.com/communities/117630024819014429962

If you post a question over there in my topic, such as you're not participating in the KS... If It passes my "morality" smell test I will post it on the Rifts Board Game Kickstarter. If you don't know what a morality smell test is google it (I'd be surprised to know myself).

You may post it here, but even though this thread is growing on me like a fungus among us (and I like it more each day) I will not post the question.

This is also my official commitment to back the project if the principle satisfies my needs, my needs are few and I have my doubts they will be capable... But if they do, I will back it!

On with the rest of the day.

**Stormonu**

WithintheDungeon wrote:

Steve Dubya and I tried to make sense of that on the Palladium Books forums... If you can make any sense of some of Carmen's responses You'll be the first.

Link:http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=104&t=152621

FYI: Carmen doesn't understand that cut and percentage.... represent the same idea!

Man, also on the thread ... *on PB's own site* 55% said they wouldn't back a board game and they still went through with the KS?

Double Ugh

**Bossk_Hogg**

warboss wrote:
Lol, a white knight who visits dakka is definitely posting there as I just tried catching up and saw a Swordfist Buttwiper profile name. He's apparently not brave enough to post here because he won't have NMI to wipe away all reasonable dissent/facts/discussion with red text and warnings when he's proven to be wrong.

I give it 50/50 that hes fake white knighting, since his earlier posts were under a different name and were more critical, and then he went into Andrew Dice Clay mode for a while. However it REALLY is hard to tell, given just how fething stupid Palladium fanboys are. If you criticize anything you're a "bully" or "meanie", which is pretty funny to hear from a grown man. Kevin Siembieda has always attracted a particularly unhinged crowd (I guess that's why every book has the "disclaimer" that magic and monsters arent real), so it really is hard to tell.

**TwoGunBob**

That's what's extra funny is that the Palladium end is gagged because if Wayne or Kevin put on their six shooters and come in to 'straighten the towering inferno out' Steve McQueen style they will get inundated with so many Robotech questions that they'll have basically crap their collective pants and run back to the Palladium submarine and wish they'd just kept their mouthes shut.

I can imagine Kevin and Wayne both doubled over from stress ulcers that they can't come in both guns blazing and start blasting people.

I feel for Carmen because Palladium is forcing him into the kickstarter because licensing is expiring and he's unprepared. But also Carmen could have done research into ANY board game project to know what is expected rather than listen to Palladium's two decades out of touch advice.

I'm guessing the black and white rulebook was going to be printed on Palladium's standard... What was it? A wax press printer than Kevin is faster at using than a computer? I can't remember what archaic printer Palladium uses and declares that old, broke down, two column rule books is what Palladium fans want because they can't handle modernization in rulebook design.

Robotech's disaster may be blamed but it comes down to Carmen hanging out with Palladium too much and not realizing it's not 1993 anymore. Palladium tries to pretend digital photography is hard as well. Hey, we'll get pictures up as soon as the pics get back from the Fox Photo Booth! Kevin is driving across town to pick them up now!

Carmen should have done his homework, simple as that. Should have looked at what other projects were doing. He's been working on this for anywhere from 5-10 years or something? During that time he couldn't look at Kickstarter and go hmmm, what is this Dark Souls boardgame?

You'd think the last game the guy opened was Panzer Blitz! by Avalon Hill and thinking, "Whoah! I can do better than this!" Only what they're offering is not much better I can promise you Panzer Blitz! is playable while gRifts rules are apparently nebulous at best.

I'm not completely trying to kick Rogue Heroes in the teeth but there's SO MUCH basic research they should have done. As is they seemed to think RIFTS! and people would just throw hundreds of thousands of dollars at them with no questions at all. Four years ago Kickstarter was new and exciting. In those four years a LOT of people have been ripped off by a lot of projects and people know the questions to ask. Questions Rogue Heroes was completely oblivious that they'd have to answer. Or they simply forget that you can not communicate or use obfuscated platitudes until AFTER you have the money.

Like I said, Robotech will get the blame, but this is totally a bungled Palladium/Rogue Heroes deal as they are showing they have ideas, but no plan and want the money to start figuring out the plan because Palladium is telling them to pass fecal matter or get off the pot. Like usual, the real villain is Kevin Siembieda treating business as business and friendship as a commodity he can use in business.

**WithintheDungeon**

Stormonu wrote:
WithintheDungeon wrote:

Steve Dubya and I tried to make sense of that on the Palladium Books forums... If you can make any sense of some of Carmen's responses You'll be the first.

Link:http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=104&t=152621

FYI: Carmen doesn't understand that cut and percentage.... represent the same idea!

Man, also on the thread ... *on PB's own site* 55% said they wouldn't back a board game and they still went through with the KS?

Double Ugh

Let's be fair though... Palladium's metric for success only goes to 98%... so 55% of that, is much... more oh! wait... No, it is even worse isn't it...

**n815e**

I agree with you, it's a bad situation for Carmen. He is being forced to do this before fully prepared and it seems like he has given in to pressure from Palladium to let them handle a lot, if not nearly all, of the details just because he's stuck.
Perhaps Kevin offered his "help", because he has so much "experience" and is such a "great friend". 'Use the warehouse, set up another corp that I will handle, let me run the KS, etc.'

Carmen is losing control of this.
I feel bad for him. We all know what it is like to step up to something new and big, look for guidance from experienced hands and get all sorts of meddling and bad advice in return. Carmen should have chosen better mentors. He shouldn't be adopting the PB customer relations method of ignoring anything other than rainbows and sunshine, or letting his staff/partners insult financial supporters.

Perhaps easier said than done, but as I had told him previously, this is all on him, his decisions, his responsibility. Kevin isn't going to be there to clean up the mess, Kevin only makes messes.

**Asterios**

n815e wrote:
I agree with you, it's a bad situation for Carmen. He is being forced to do this before fully prepared and it seems like he has given in to pressure from Palladium to let them handle a lot, if not nearly all, of the details just because he's stuck.
Perhaps Kevin offered his "help", because he has so much "experience" and is such a "great friend". 'Use the warehouse, set up another corp that I will handle, let me run the KS, etc.'

Carmen is losing control of this.
I feel bad for him. We all know what it is like to step up to something new and big, look for guidance from experienced hands and get all sorts of meddling and bad advice in return. Carmen should have chosen better mentors. He shouldn't be adapting the PB customer relations method of ignoring anything other than rainbows and sunshine, or letting his staff/partners insult financial supporters.

Perhaps easier said than done, but as I had told him previously, this is all on him, his decisions, his responsibility. Kevin isn't going to be there to clean up the mess, Kevin only makes messes.

Kevin sees this situation as a win win for him, he has nothing to lose and everything to gain, its not his neck on the line, nor is it his reputation on the line it is Carmen's and only Carmen's and Carmen can't say a darn thing cause of those pesky NDA's.

also someone might want to let Arete know that i may be the reason he is not posting, according to someone who claims to be in contact with Carmen:

I was talking to Carmen in person at the time through messenger
trust me you got into his head he wont respond to anyone on that page at this point

**WithintheDungeon**

So which is it guys...

Either Kevin is a puppeteer... or totally inept... You guys switch your theories, like fishwives at the butchers table... Glad I'm in the right place. I thought I was the only one.

**Asterios**

WithintheDungeon wrote:
So which is it guys...

Either Kevin is a puppeteer... or totally inept... You guys switch your theories, like fishwives at the butchers table... Glad I'm in the right place. I thought I was the only one.

hes both, he is an inept puppeteer.

**Necros**

I haven't been following this much but wow, that comments page...

I feel bad for Carmen too. It's clear he loves the game/IP/whatever and wants to make a cool miniatures game for it, but he's probably limited by what PB will let him do and had to make it a rush job I guess if the license is about to expire. I think this will still fund though, it'll trickle it's way up unless there's a huge mass exodus.

Personally I think they would have had much better luck sticking with metal or resin minis and doing a skirmish game or warmachine-sized battle game, rather than the boxed game route. Then they could have had everything produced domestically and much lower funding goals. Then if it's successful and they really wanted a board game, come back for round 2 after everything is delivered with boxed game that's fully compatible with the minis from the first campaign.

**Asterios**

Necros wrote:
I haven't been following this much but wow, that comments page...

I feel bad for Carmen too. It's clear he loves the game/IP/whatever and wants to make a cool miniatures game for it, but he's probably limited by what PB will let him do and had to make it a rush job I guess if the license is about to expire. I think this will still fund though, it'll trickle it's way up unless there's a huge mass exodus.

Personally I think they would have had much better luck sticking with metal or resin minis and doing a skirmish game or warmachine-sized battle game, rather than the boxed game route. Then they could have had everything produced domestically and much lower funding goals. Then if it's successful and they really wanted a board game, come back for round 2 after everything is delivered with boxed game that's fully compatible with the minis from the first campaign.

Well, the problem is, say Carmen collect $100K on this project, IRS takes a bite, then KS takes a bite, Amazon (or whoever is collecting the monies) takes a bite, then Carmen has to pay Kevin for the Rifts books and such that sold on the add-ons then he has to pay to renew the IP license and after all that me thinks Carmen will be left with very little if any monies. so like I said carmen is better off if this project does not get funded.

**Taarnak**

Asterios wrote:
TwoGunBob wrote:
I'll be curious how Kickstarter handles this one. Given their penchant for siding with creators they'll likely slap Drew on thie wrist, tell him to behave, and ban the guy called out for his bid.

well you know they will delete the post but it has been screenshotted and it could cause a serious backlash for KS if they do nothing about it, imagine the press, project collaborator releases private information about a backer and kickstarter does nothing about it but delete the incriminating evidence

meanwhile what Andrew just did might have killed the kickstarter anyway, some new voice I never saw before are speaking up now and calling him on that.

Which private information?

**Bossk_Hogg**

WithintheDungeon wrote:
So which is it guys...

Either Kevin is a puppeteer... or totally inept... You guys switch your theories, like fishwives at the butchers table... Glad I'm in the right place. I thought I was the only one.

I view him as both. He's a hustler who has cultivated a small group of saps, including Carmen who apparently has mental health issues which Kevin decided to make public to misdirect blame for the RRT mismanagement. At the same time, he's demonstrably crappy at business, game design, production... you name it. Palladium is constantly on the verge of insolvency, bailed out only by the members of his bizarre cult of personality.

**TwoGunBob**

Exactly, if anything, for Kevin/Palladium this is basically a litmus test to see if his sorry carcass can come back to Kickstarter and start rolling out projects for books, Heroes Unlimited coasters, D-Bee keychains, etc. The Savage Worlds KS wet Kevin's appetite for more sweet, sweet obligation free Kickstarter money and he's using Carmen to see how much brand damage Robotech really caused him.

To Kevin, I think he's seeing it as still actively hostile. People are asking questions, real questions that can't be dispelled as Robotech haters begone! People want a game plan, not to finance a DREAM that Carmen has apparently spent more time doing the dreaming portion and not doing the business portion. His plants that are all throwing rainbows and bobbing their collective heads and saying 'JUICY' and 'Mouth Wateringly AWESOME' aren't gaining any traction and really standing out from general backers in much the same way Robotech backers kind of stand out.

At the end of the day I hope Carmen knows that no one hates him. Hell, the guy would probably be able to run a' Kevin Siembieda ruined my finances with his licensing fees and left me when I was in the lurch' gofundme and possibly get a chance to recover some of the money he lost to Kevin and Palladium because it became a poisoned well. He just followed way too much Palladium advice and is finding out it's been all bad advice.

But still, as I say, Carmen had plenty of time to do market research on his own. He's stuck in mad scrambling mode now to present an average board game kickstarter. Hope he manages to pull out and knows that no one hates him as a person. He just needs to really reevaluate and definitely talk to some people in gaming that are not related to Palladium to get his bearings on where he needs to go whether the kickstarter funds or not.

**Asterios**

Taarnak wrote:
Asterios wrote:
TwoGunBob wrote:
I'll be curious how Kickstarter handles this one. Given their penchant for siding with creators they'll likely slap Drew on thie wrist, tell him to behave, and ban the guy called out for his bid.

well you know they will delete the post but it has been screenshotted and it could cause a serious backlash for KS if they do nothing about it, imagine the press, project collaborator releases private information about a backer and kickstarter does nothing about it but delete the incriminating evidence

meanwhile what Andrew just did might have killed the kickstarter anyway, some new voice I never saw before are speaking up now and calling him on that.

Which private information?

this:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts/1811029

**Grot 6**

ced1106 wrote:
Speaking of reading the comments, it's evident that some backers want this KS to succeed, but not-Palladium isn't doing a good job with the campaign.

Sean O'Hayer about 15 hours ago

More add-ons then stretch goals... and the only stretch goal currently available is to add color to the rulebook, something that should be standard.

The longer I watch all of this happening, the less inclined I feel to keep my pledge. This KS feels like it wasn't thought through well...

I'll hang on as long as I can, hoping for things to improve.

Michael Caldwell about 14 hours ago

@tgmoore I could agree, to an extent, but it's not purely conjecture. As a project/program manager myself, if one of my staff committed a gaff like that in such a public way I would simply reassign them; they obviously don't have the temperament to perform in that specific role.

That gaff, added to the small yet numerous other concerns, is (to me) indicative of a)management issues b)disorganization and c)leadership issues.

I'm not poking at anyone. I want this to succeed because of a love for Rifts, something everyone here shares. I hope things do shape up; we need this not only to fund, but to follow through to project completion. We as backers can absolutely make or break this so it is important that we support it, but we need confidence in the creators. I think Carmen's vision is awesome, but he might need some more help.

@Pete well said.

Todd Ferrullo about 14 hours ago

I am not sure what is less professional, Andrew Cooke's comment about not wanting to answer the questions from $1 backers, Carmen deciding to bail on the comments on his KS before even two days have passed or the absurd excuses about not revealing the miniature manufacturer.

I am starting to lose what little faith I have in this project and I am unsure that I will retain my pledge unless things improve (as I expect many other folks are also considering).

Graham Bailey about 3 hours ago

@daquack I'm right there with you, I own all of the Rifts books from PB, and all of the new Savage Worlds stuff too. I've been playing & GM-ing Rifts for decades, and I was very excited by this project as I really wanted to get my hands on quality sculpted Rifts miniatures .However, I feel at the moment that the project isn't being managed in an open, respectful, transparent or respectful manner and this makes me fearful for a positive outcome for this game. Also, it's not great value for money in comparison with other, more successful Kickstarter campaigns.
However, it's early days yet and it *may* gather steam, if the 'creators' get motivated to actually respond to concerns and smarten up their behaviour and responses on here. I'm still hopeful that they can deliver a quality product that I'm happy to play and own.

Iain Row 19 minutes ago

Well, here we are. I have no opinion either way on RRT, beyond the careful note I have taken of the concerns made very clear by certain backers. I am relieved to see that seems to have died down a bit, we have all seen it and we don't need to be reminded every 5 minutes.

What I have a problem with is the objective attributes of this KS compared to other miniatures based board / skirmish / dudes on a map games.
- A black and white rulebook. What? Haven't seen one of them since the 90s
- 20 miniatures, human size. What? Mythic Battles (ignore stretch goals) has packed 37 into their base game, 8 of which are epic monsters/gods.
- A laminated paper gaming mat. What? I can only assume that this is essentially a Paizo flip mat product. These are terrible, they never lie flat, give bad glare in artificial light, and look cheap.
- No indication of game mechanics. Levelling up? Equipment? The campaign mode?
- No stretch goals. A colour rulebook is not a stretch goal, it is a minimum. Maybe Carmen expected this game to go like CMON games, where the funding is so fast that they sneak in parts upgrades and alternate sculpts in to soak up the first few $100k and the "real" stretch goals start coming in around $300k or more. In which case we could be in for a situation where the game isn't "finished" until funding has hit $160k or higher, and that is just not going to happen at this speed.
- No reviews. All other games send advance copies to well-known reviewers like Rahdo, Undead Viking. Nothing here.
- Beta rulebook. Not only not available, confirmed as not even going to be available at any point during the KS. That means it isn't written yet.
- No manufacturer provided. Endure the Stars went out of their way to reassure backers that they had Ludofact on board, and their CEO even penned a long piece on how they planned to help this new company realise their vision.
- No detailed component breakdown. Probably because it is not yet written. In fact, I highly doubt anything is ready even as a mock-up/prototype except the basic combat rules and a gang-fight scenario.
- No promotion. Beasts of War did a legthy piece with the Myth guys about how to launch a successful KS in this new age. Carmen seems to have missed it. Mythic went on roadshows all around France, testing their game in FLGSs. Monolith did the same with Conan. A PB open house is not the same thing. Once again, this demonstrates Carmen has nothing to show anyone.

I strongly suspect that the only things in existence right now are some 3D renders, a handful of painted test sculpts from an unknown manufacturer (the same one used on RRT perhaps?) and the items Carmen showed in his photo. That is so far short of being a full game it is not even funny.

In his defence, I assume that is why he has put 2 years down for delivery. That is basically enough time for him to design the game and produce it. But that is the problem I have here...they are not showing us a product and asking for funds to help make it a reality. They are showing us an idea for a game from someone who has never made such a game in the past (he has written RPG sourcebooks and fiction...how is that even remotely like writing a board game? Unless this game turns out to be Rifts played with figures, which would be hilarious!)

I don't wish him or the company ill, I love Rifts and would love to back it. But right now, the creator and collaborators are asking us to place our money on complete trust. This is why the track record and the involvement of PB matters, and I really hope all the shillers and people who are going to call me a troll (who probably haven't read this far anyway) take this one point away from this post and concede
IT MATTERS ONLY BECAUSE IT IS ALL WE HAVE TO GO ON.

I would be with you in telling all the RRT crowd to pipe down and keep it to their own project, and would have some sympathy for your slightly Putin-like interpretation of all criticism and questioning as a plot or conspiracy against your game, or "revenge", if the KS offering was a professional one. But to be quite honest I have never seen anything so amateurish outside of those hand-drawn ones that get $1

I am amazed it has gotten as much as it has with these issues, and I can only assume it is because of the love so many people have for Rifts. Which is a real shame if they get let down.
PLEASE put these things right. Vampire Hunters had criticism, they cancelled and came back a year later with a manufacturer confirmed, a beta rulebook, a fully planned out path to all their expansions and a business plan.

I CANNOT recommend highly enough that Rogue heroes does the same, relaunch when you are ready or show us that you have more than you are letting us see right now. You need to look credible, if only because the only way people get massive amounts of money right now is courting the ebay flippers who treat this like a business. I don't like it any more than you do, but there is no doubt they pile in in large size for things like CMON knowing they will get delivered. They might be scum, but they are dispassionate and will pile in and fund this baby regardless of RRT revenge issues if they are confident they will get a product they can sell at a margin to Rifts superfans on the secondary market.

Peace.

In the real world, we call this "Champaign Dreams on a Colt 45 budget."

The thing of it is that they are relying on their Palladium super-fan club to stifle and counter spin past actions, and business practices that, honestly- cannot be excused. They see a project that they "Think" they know will look like, not as it will really appear.

When you have to grease it as hard as they have, there honestly is an issue in there somewhere that they are not discussing.

Like I have said, AVOID THIS ONE AT ALL COSTS. There is something wrong here that I cannot put my finger on, aside from the simple fact that Palladium is involved with it. ( Which should be enough.)There is some bad mojo all around this project, and there is more to this then just a simple, "Hey I need such and such amount to cast a few minis for a tabletop miniatures game."

**Asterios**

Grot 6 wrote:

The thing of it is that they are relying on their Palladium super-fan club to stifle and counter spin past actions, and business practices that, honestly- cannot be excused. They see a project that they "Think" they know will look like, not as it will really appear.

When you have to grease it as hard as they have, there honestly is an issue in there somewhere that they are not discussing.

Like I have said, AVOID THIS ONE AT ALL COSTS. There is something wrong here that I cannot put my finger on, aside from the simple fact that Palladium is involved with it. ( Which should be enough.)There is some bad mojo all around this project, and there is more to this then just a simple, "Hey I need such and such amount to cast a few minis for a tabletop miniatures game."

as it goes their super-fan club has probably turned away more backers then any of the RRT crazies have, imagine you are a backer looking to back this project, you see people asking reasonable questions, then you see the slavering PB mob pounce on them calling them names and such for asking reasonable questions, what would you think? to me it would feel like the whole project is a scam.

**John Prins**

Necros wrote:
Personally I think they would have had much better luck sticking with metal or resin minis and doing a skirmish game or warmachine-sized battle game, rather than the boxed game route.

Probably true. Carmen is trying to straddle as many target audiences as he can and it's not working. The target audiences want different things:

Wargamers: Want RIFTS minis they can use in other systems. They want top quality plastics that don't cost a bazillion dollars. This doesn't offer that.
Boardgamers: Want a board game with good mechanics and replay-ability. We haven't seen if it offers that.
RIFTS Fans: Probably want minis they can use to play the RIFTS RPG with. This doesn't offer enough variety to do that.

Honestly, a 15mm RIFTS wargame could have satisfied the Wargamers and RIFTS fans and the boardgame market has a lot of very steep competition. At 15mm he could bring in vehicles and big monsters at reasonable costs.

**WithintheDungeon**

At this point, what Carmen is straddling is unknown beings the chair infront of his computer where he should be fielding questions, must have been thrown out the window the day before yesterday. I'm such a wimp... I hope he is ok.

**warboss**

TwoGunBob wrote:
I feel for Carmen because Palladium is forcing him into the kickstarter because licensing is expiring and he's unprepared. But also Carmen could have done research into ANY board game project to know what is expected rather than listen to Palladium's two decades out of touch advice.

When you create/devote a youtube channel to espousing the beauty and elegance of the Palladium rules system like Carmen did, you're not exactly particularly discerning nor keeping up with the current trends. If the pinnacle of RPG rules development in Carmen's mind (at least 5 years or so ago) was a cobbled together scifi unbalanced mess of a 1st ed D&D clone largely intact since Ronald Reagan's presidency, you shouldn't realistically expect him to be caught up in another genre either. He seems like he's making a pre-FFG/kickstarter era board game with less than the production value of a $20 D&D minis starter set from 2004ish (at least that was in color!). Part of it is indeed that he can't simply afford to do better without getting the funds first (an admittedly chicken and egg scenario) but the main part feels like despite apparently having the license from his dear friend Kevin for years that he's woefully unprepared. No gameplay video to start? No downloadable quick start demo rules and paper minis to show off the system? No BGG entry? No ready answers to questions that most all similar kickstarted games get asked? No apparent lessons learned from YOUR previous kickstarter experience in Robotech except how to disclaimer everything to the point where you could put out a 4 page pdf and consider the $100k kickstarter fulfilled? The only thing Kevin and Carmen seemed to have learned is how to further cover their asses in their current project (not that they need it given the lack of legal repercussions with Robotech... kiddie pool legal tsunami included). This campaign just smells of a quick attempt to crowdfund before the license expires and Palladium requires another paycheck to keep the dream alive.