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 Kilkrazy wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
A very interesting report from the BBC about how education is an important indicator of voting intentions.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39936927

The TL/DR is that the better educated you are, the more liberal you seem to get. We don't know why.

It could be something simple like professors at institutions of higher education are themselves disproportionately liberal and promote liberal agendas. That's certainly the case in the US, though I admit I don't know what its like in the UK.

That's a circular argument.

How so? Care to elaborate?

 Graphite wrote:
What's this nonsense about "enforcing" payment of an international debt? What are the "International community" going to do - invade and repossess the television?

No. What happens is that the EU and UK work out what they feel would be a reasonable payment, in whichever direction. If the UK either doesn't negotiate it, or doesn't pay it, NO OTHER COUNTRY EVER TRUSTS US AGAIN..

The Uk can argue that there is no debt to begin with as the EU doenst work on a credit basis. Our financial commitments are part of being a member, if we are not members and not getting the benefits of membership we dont need to pay, or at least should contest the billing raised. Also note that this is bill the EU wants paid prior to negotiating (at extra cost) for trade deals.

It is not however a debt default, so trust or lack thereof doesn't come into it.

Put it this way. If it was a debt we would know how much and why. There are no statutory bills for leaving the EU, and no actual debt of any kind.
We don't even know what the EU want to bill us because its an arbitrary fee the EU bureaucracy are trying to extract from us.

 Graphite wrote:

Because we don't pay what the rest of the world and it's dog have looked at and decided is a reasonable amount. It's politics, not accountancy.

Rest of the world? EU bureaucrats are not the rest of the world.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
A very interesting report from the BBC about how education is an important indicator of voting intentions.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39936927

The TL/DR is that the better educated you are, the more liberal you seem to get. We don't know why.

Because academia is itself very liberal. It tends to create a bit of an echo chamber.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
A very interesting report from the BBC about how education is an important indicator of voting intentions.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39936927

The TL/DR is that the better educated you are, the more liberal you seem to get. We don't know why.

It could be something simple like professors at institutions of higher education are themselves disproportionately liberal and promote liberal agendas. That's certainly the case in the US, though I admit I don't know what its like in the UK.

I assume that the better educated tend to have more exposure to other cultures. In most industries, any business above the coalface usually involves meetings with other people which quite often means other countries/cultures etc. I deal with foreign peers on a daily basis, but I didn't when I worked nightclubs.

There's probably some correlation between education level and curiosity / horizon expanding as well. Visiting different culture on holiday Vs just getting plastered in Costa Del Sol.

Other studies have shown that higher educational attainment correlates with higher intelligence, and with increased ethical development.

How long are you going to persist with this 'conservatives are thick tangent'? Weren't you talking about this last week?

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
A very interesting report from the BBC about how education is an important indicator of voting intentions.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39936927

The TL/DR is that the better educated you are, the more liberal you seem to get. We don't know why.

Because academia is itself very liberal. It tends to create a bit of an echo chamber.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
A very interesting report from the BBC about how education is an important indicator of voting intentions.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39936927

The TL/DR is that the better educated you are, the more liberal you seem to get. We don't know why.

It could be something simple like professors at institutions of higher education are themselves disproportionately liberal and promote liberal agendas. That's certainly the case in the US, though I admit I don't know what its like in the UK.

I assume that the better educated tend to have more exposure to other cultures. In most industries, any business above the coalface usually involves meetings with other people which quite often means other countries/cultures etc. I deal with foreign peers on a daily basis, but I didn't when I worked nightclubs.

There's probably some correlation between education level and curiosity / horizon expanding as well. Visiting different culture on holiday Vs just getting plastered in Costa Del Sol.

Other studies have shown that higher educational attainment correlates with higher intelligence, and with increased ethical development.

How long are you going to persist with this 'conservatives are thick tangent'? Weren't you talking about this last week?

Just because someone leans a political way does not make them enlightened or stupid.
Some liberals are total morons who are grounded in helium and belive we can negoiate with Isis and that economy is funded on a unicorn powered money tree.

Likewise some are genius level, and some conservetives may be a Einstein or a total idiot who thinks that life revolves around thr pub, take away and beating up rival football fans.

No set value here. No set stats for a person of particular leaning.

 Ketara wrote:
I think on the matter of the Brexit 'bill', there's a certain degree of disingenuity going on from the EU. Not, I hasten to add, the EU as an entity, but from certain aspects within it. Namely those who are obsessed with trying to make talks either break down or 'punish' the UK, the sorts who Juncker and his cohorts represent. I don't believe that they represent the EU in its entirety, and I don't even think they necessarily control affairs. But they do have quite a strong voice out there, and it is I think, important that their voice is not permitted to be the dominant one. Their voice is one of the reasons Brexit is occuring, and if it is allowed to sabotage future relations between the UK and EU, it will be catastrophic for all involved.

I'm puzzled you think that way. How do you think austerity was imposed in EU as the norm? It's because of people like those you described had the strong calls to force it upon the hapless countries and people. They really are the ones who decide.

Why do you think UK would be an exception? Because you thought you were all high and mighty enough to be spared of the grudge from the EU decision makers?

I suggest you to go back to reality. It's pretty clear a lot of them won't let UK go without having to pay dearly for their decision. They don't want it another way. For a good reason; people must be punished for what they have done, to keep others from following the same way than UK. This is the thought that actually rules EU (and frankly, a lot of countries in the world).

Yes, it will be catastrophic. It can't be another way. It calls for disaster, as usual. And its supporters will not see it before it's too late. As always.

 Sarouan wrote:

 Ketara wrote:
I think on the matter of the Brexit 'bill', there's a certain degree of disingenuity going on from the EU. Not, I hasten to add, the EU as an entity, but from certain aspects within it. Namely those who are obsessed with trying to make talks either break down or 'punish' the UK, the sorts who Juncker and his cohorts represent. I don't believe that they represent the EU in its entirety, and I don't even think they necessarily control affairs. But they do have quite a strong voice out there, and it is I think, important that their voice is not permitted to be the dominant one. Their voice is one of the reasons Brexit is occuring, and if it is allowed to sabotage future relations between the UK and EU, it will be catastrophic for all involved.

I'm puzzled you think that way. How do you think austerity was imposed in EU as the norm? It's because of people like those you described had the strong calls to force it upon the hapless countries and people.

Why do you think UK would be an exception? Because you thought you were all high and mighty enough to be spared of the grudge from the EU decision makers?

I suggest you to go back to reality. It's pretty clear a lot of them won't let UK go without having to pay dearly for their decision. They don't want it another way. For a good reason; people must be punished for what they have done, to keep others from following the same way than UK. This is the thought that rules EU (and frankly, a lot of countries in the world).

Yes, it will be catastrophic. It can't be another way. It calls for disaster, as usual. And its supporters will not see it before it's too late. As always.

Careful there. Your true colours are showing through.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


Careful there. Your true colours are showing through.

What do you mean ? It's obvious the EU decision makers are really holding a grudge against UK decision makers. Because the latter ones really put the first in a big mess. And it is really a struggle for EU as well; what do you think would happen if other countries not satisfied with the way EU works right now see that UK quietly walks away without any trouble, and actually gain more than they lost? It's just a logical conclusion EU decision makers would try to make it as harsh and hard for UK as possible.

I'm not saying the current situation is a good one. I actually don't like what is happening. But when I read something like that, I'm really puzzled you would believe they wouldn't act another way, just because you fear being beaten with the hard part of the stick. They will use the hard part of the stick. Because they have to set an example for other countries thinking of doing the same.

 Sarouan wrote:

I'm puzzled you think that way. How do you think austerity was imposed in EU as the norm? It's because of people like those you described had the strong calls to force it upon the hapless countries and people.

It wasn't? I know Greece got made to carry the can when their economy collapsed, but that's about the only case of any country being made to obey any central EU diktats with regards to finance. Everyone else does what they want. Have you seen France's finances lately?

Why do you think UK would be an exception? Because you thought you were all high and mighty enough to be spared of the grudge from the EU decision makers?

Because they don't run the EU, they merely influence it. I estimated prior to the vote, and I reckon even now that the lobbyists of big companies and central governments carry equal weight. I don't believe they'll allow Juncker and co. full rein to do as they will.

And if they do? In all seriousness, at that point I'd say we made the right call regardless of the cost. Because if people like that are genuinely calling the shots within the EU, if they actually have that sort of power, a decade of crippling economic pain would be worth escaping their clutches.

Either way we win, I think (well, from a specific angle ). Either we'll get a reasonable deal that works (more or less) and keeps everything for everyone ticking along with only some minor damage on both sides, or it will be clear that we just managed to jump ship before the EU evolved down the path I feared it would when I voted to leave. That's my view anyway. YMMV.

 Sarouan wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


Careful there. Your true colours are showing through.

What do you mean ? It's obvious the EU decision makers are really holding a grudge against UK decision makers. Because the latter ones really put the first in a big mess. And it is really a struggle for EU as well; what do you think would happen if other countries not satisfied with the way EU works right now see that UK quietly walks away without any trouble, and actually gain more than they lost? It's just a logical conclusion EU decision makers would try to make it as harsh and hard for UK as possible.

I'm not saying the current situation is a good one. I actually don't like what is happening. But when I read something like that, I'm really puzzled you would believe they wouldn't act another way, just because you fear being beaten with the hard part of the stick. They will use the hard part of the stick. Because they have to set an example for other countries thinking of doing the same.

While that maybe true.
Of we have no chance of victory then why should we not stand up, tell them to shove it and leave em on Monday.

We are not beholden to a Junker who loves a few drinks, a German woman who thinks she runs Europe like her private empire.
Why drag it out if that's true and Stand up regardless because no matter how we play that scenario wr lose.

Is rather live in a free nation than under a europeen jack boot if that's the case.
We have survived against the odds alongside our commonwealth allies. We can do so once more if needed.

 Sarouan wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


Careful there. Your true colours are showing through.

What do you mean ? It's obvious the EU decision makers are really holding a grudge against UK decision makers. Because the latter ones really put the first in a big mess. And it is really a struggle for EU as well; what do you think would happen if other countries not satisfied with the way EU works right now see that UK quietly walks away without any trouble, and actually gain more than they lost? It's just a logical conclusion EU decision makers would try to make it as harsh and hard for UK as possible.

I'm not saying the current situation is a good one. I actually don't like what is happening. But when I read something like that, I'm really puzzled you would believe they wouldn't act another way, just because you fear being beaten with the hard part of the stick. They will use the hard part of the stick. Because they have to set an example for other countries thinking of doing the same.

Your post came across as spiteful and vindictive.

 Ketara wrote:

 Sarouan wrote:

I'm puzzled you think that way. How do you think austerity was imposed in EU as the norm? It's because of people like those you described had the strong calls to force it upon the hapless countries and people.

It wasn't? I know Greece got made to carry the can when their economy collapsed, but that's about the only case of any country being made to obey any central EU diktats with regards to finance. Everyone else does what they want. Have you seen France's finances lately?

France's finances aren't that catastrophic, but some people have a lot of interests to make it look that way. As you said, YMMV.

Besides, I'm not talking just about Greece. Greece is the poor defenseless guy bullied in school. I'm just saying that your optimism about EU decision makers finally coming to reason and deciding to let UK go peacefully without any real trouble is just that; optimism. What happened so far in recent history is that EU decision makers don't want to make life easier for people trying to go against their interests.

Because they don't run the EU, they merely influence it. I estimated prior to the vote, and I reckon even now that the lobbyists of big companies and central governments carry equal weight. I don't believe they'll allow Juncker and co. full rein to do as they will.

This is based about your point of view, indeed. Where are the proofs of that? Big companies aren't especially cheerleading for UK - when your politicians tried to go to Germany and talk to big patrons there, they weren't really welcomed as they thought they would. They are only looking for their own interests, and it doesn't have to be linked to the fate of one's country. If they have to leave the UK's sinking ship...they will. Money doesn't care for nationalism.

And to be honest, some companies already showed they won't hesitate to let the UK's ship sinking deep into the sea.

Either way we win, I think. Either we'll get a reasonable deal that works (more or less) and keeps everything for everyone ticking along with only some minor damage on both sides, or it will be clear that we just managed to jump ship before the EU evolved down the path I feared it would when I voted to leave. That's my view anyway. YMMV.

Sure, you have the right to decide your own way. I'm just saying that wishing EU making it easy for UK because otherwise it will be a disaster is just that; a wish. To me, they will make it as harsh as possible, just to set out an example. No matter what happens to the poor people caught into the fire. That's how EU is ruled so far. I don't see why they would change their ways just because it's UK.

And yes, it needs to be changed. But the causes are much deeper than that.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Sarouan wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


Careful there. Your true colours are showing through.

What do you mean ? It's obvious the EU decision makers are really holding a grudge against UK decision makers. Because the latter ones really put the first in a big mess. And it is really a struggle for EU as well; what do you think would happen if other countries not satisfied with the way EU works right now see that UK quietly walks away without any trouble, and actually gain more than they lost? It's just a logical conclusion EU decision makers would try to make it as harsh and hard for UK as possible.

I'm not saying the current situation is a good one. I actually don't like what is happening. But when I read something like that, I'm really puzzled you would believe they wouldn't act another way, just because you fear being beaten with the hard part of the stick. They will use the hard part of the stick. Because they have to set an example for other countries thinking of doing the same.

Your post came across as spiteful and vindictive.

Plus economics.
How many German cars, French cars, Italian you see on UK roads.
Lots, many mnay thousands.

Now what if all those new cars where now American, Japan, China or even Korean?

Oh that might hurt. Economics. Both sides rely too much for EU to turn this just into a lets beat the UK over the head game.

I have a Hyundai I10. I won't be losing any sleep over losing access to Volkswagens, Audis and BMW's.

Toyota Aygo. Before that. Ford KA.

Nope. I can buy Japanese.
I can live without a Mercedes and buy a nice crysler, Lincoln or any other car maker.

And I'd miss having access to Alfa Romeos but it's a price I'd be willing to pay.

And f.y.i, if this is all true then it just goes to show that the EU is a malicious bully of an organisation after all.

Plus economics.
How many German cars, French cars, Italian you see on UK roads.
Lots, many mnay thousands.

Now what if all those new cars where now American, Japan, China or even Korean?

Oh that might hurt. Economics. Both sides rely too much for EU to turn this just into a lets beat the UK over the head game.

Economics go both ways. Why do you think they aren't that many so far? It's because it's more advantageous that way for now. What if the rules are changed? And why do you think you would get a better deal with Japan, America, China or even Korea, when those countries know you are on the weak side, having to find another market at all costs ?

What UK really is exporting that the other countries don't already give? Think more about it.

 Sarouan wrote:

Besides, I'm not talking just about Greece. Greece is the poor defenseless guy bullied in school. I'm just saying that your optimism about EU decision makers finally coming to reason and deciding to let UK go peacefully without any real trouble is just that; optimism. What happened so far in recent history is that EU decision makers don't want to make life easier for people trying to go against their interests.

I don't disagree that some of them are indeed like that. I think that there are more highminded people in Brussels than you give credit for though. I think for every Juncker, there is likely to be someone less ...shall we say, unreasonable?

This is based about your point of view, indeed. Where are the proofs of that? Big companies aren't especially cheerleading for UK - when your politicians tried to go to Germany and talk to big patrons there, they weren't really welcomed as they thought they would. They are only looking for their own interests, and it doesn't have to be linked to the fate of one's country. If they have to leave the UK's sinking ship...they will. Money doesn't care for nationalism.

There's no proofs for anything as of yet, and there won't be until everything is settled. I'm not entirely certain what sort of 'proof' you're demanding or would accept. Historically speaking though, money talks, and there's a lot of it tied up in trade of various types between the EU and UK; some of it with us as the destination, others with us doing the exporting. Businesses adapt, but only when they have to. There will be intense pressure to maintain arrangements as similar as we have now, I have no doubt of that. Businessmen work with politics as they have to, but they crave stability above all else.

And to be honest, some companies already showed they won't hesitate to let the UK's ship sinking deep into the sea.

Blimey, let's not get too carried away. We're a top five economy with a tremendously strong amount of cultural, industrial, and financial headway. I highly, highly doubt we'll see a repeat of the 1930's any time soon. Anything that did that much damage to us would drag down most of the world with us.

There's us having a recession and us 'sinking deep into the sea'. I know a lot of Remainers are getting vicarious pleasure out of forecasting the latter, but it's mostly rhetorical hyperbole with little in the way of evidence beyond vague predictions of doom and gloom at this stage.

 Sarouan wrote:

Plus economics.
How many German cars, French cars, Italian you see on UK roads.
Lots, many mnay thousands.

Now what if all those new cars where now American, Japan, China or even Korean?

Oh that might hurt. Economics. Both sides rely too much for EU to turn this just into a lets beat the UK over the head game.

Economics go both ways. Why do you think they aren't that many so far? It's because it's more advantageous that way for now. What if the rules are changed? And why do you think you would get a better deal with Japan, America, China or even Korea, when those countries know you are on the weak side, having to find another market at all costs ?

What UK really is exporting that the other countries don't already give? Think more about it.

While that may be true and wr may have a tough time for a few years.

However. All it shows is how black, cold and vindictive thr heart of Europe is in its true form.
Is it right for them to act so. No.

If fear is all that holds them together then they will crumble. They will break and we will be there inviting others to join us, and stand together.

 Ketara wrote:

I don't disagree that some of them are indeed like that. I think that there are more highminded people in Brussels than you give credit for though. I think for every Juncker, there is likely to be someone less ...shall we say, unreasonable?

I understand what you're saying, but I'm asking again; on what basis do you believe they would suddenly go back to reason, when recent history so far showed than they showed no mercy at all whenever they had the chance? Why do you think these reasonnable people would suddenly appear, when it seems they weren't predominant when some really bad decision were taken so far ? That's why I'm saying you're really optimist on that view. It's not talking about "doom and gloom". It's about seeing what happened and was said from both sides so far. I really don't see any reasons it would go that well in the end.

There's no proofs for anything as of yet, and there won't be until everything is settled. I'm not entirely certain what sort of 'proof' you're demanding or would accept. Historically speaking though, money talks, and there's a lot of it tied up in trade of various types between the EU and UK; some of it with us as the destination, others with us doing the exporting. Businesses adapt, but only when they have to. There will be intense pressure to maintain arrangements as similar as we have now, I have no doubt of that. Businessmen work with politics as they have to, but they crave stability above all else.

I feel like you're talking about your ideology, What I mean is that thinking it would come that way is one thing, but that doesn't mean it would become that way just because you believe hard in it and that's it. Indeed, businesses craves stability for sure, but you seem not to see that the Brexit is already a cause of instability for a lot of businesses outside and inside of UK. It still keeps being a source of it, with the sillyness happening in your country right now.

It wouldn't be surprising some companies believe there would be more stability in the EU rather than with a lonely UK. And thus, not needing at all supporting the Brexit idea or staying with the UK. Businesses usually look for big markets, and the EU market is definitely way bigger than the UK one. It's just as simple as that.

Thinking otherwise is national pride, to me. Money doesn't care for that at all. That's what I noticed so far in history.

There's us having a recession and us 'sinking deep into the sea'. I know a lot of Remainers are getting vicarious pleasure out of forecasting the latter, but it's mostly rhetorical hyperbole with little in the way of evidence beyond vague predictions of doom and gloom at this stage.

Of course. But being too optimist without having a contingency plan if things would go bad is also dangerous, IMHO.


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 jhe90 wrote:


While that may be true and wr may have a tough time for a few years.

However. All it shows is how black, cold and vindictive thr heart of Europe is in its true form.
Is it right for them to act so. No.

If fear is all that holds them together then they will crumble. They will break and we will be there inviting others to join us, and stand together.

Rise, brothers!

And yes,what you said is true. It's not right to do so.

But that's how it worked so far. Why believe they would suddenly act differently? This is why I'm really puzzled by your reactions.

 Sarouan wrote:

I understand what you're saying, but I'm asking again; on what basis do you believe they would suddenly go back to reason, when recent history so far showed than they showed no mercy at all whenever they had the chance? Why do you think these reasonnable people would suddenly appear, when it seems they weren't predominant when some really bad decision were taken so far ? That's why I'm saying you're really optimist on that view. It's not talking about "doom and gloom". It's about seeing what happened and was said from both sides so far. I really don't see any reasons it would go that well in the end.

Different scenarios engender different reactions from different interests. There's been no parallel thus far to Brexit in any capacity. We're breaking new ground. So I'm falling back on what I know of the power structures of the EU and past historical occurrences in similar scenarios.

I feel like you're talking about your ideology, What I mean is that thinking it would come that way is one thing, but that doesn't mean it would become that way just because you believe hard in it and that's it. Indeed, businesses craves stability for sure, but you seem not to see that the Brexit is already a cause of instability for a lot of businesses outside and inside of UK. It still keeps being a source of it, with the sillyness happening in your country right now.

It wouldn't be surprising some companies believe there would be more stability in the EU rather than with a lonely UK. And thus, not needing at all supporting the Brexit idea or staying with the UK. Businesses usually look for big markets, and the EU market is definitely way bigger than the UK one. It's just as simple as that.

With all due respect, ideology has nothing to do with it. Absolutely nothing. This is basic economics. Markets are fixed in many regards. Other places can be as stable as they like, but if you want to buy high aero-engines? Your purchasing areas are limited. If you want to export substantial quantities of food? You can't suddenly relocate your business from selling to the UK to Poland. I could go on for another ten paragraphs, but the point should be made by now.

At the end of the day, there is a market of close to 70 million people here with an income much higher than that in most of the world, most of the world does business here in a sizable capacity, and we possess many exports which cannot be easily replicated. Whilst that remains the case, substantial sums of money will continue to be involved here. It's not a tap that the EU can turn off or reroute, even if it was a singular dedicated entity with central planning (which it isn't). And whilst those substantial sums of money are flowing through here, the people behind them will be pressuring with all their might to ensure that those flows can continue unimpeded. It's always been the case, even in the throes of a world war. That pressure will be hitting the national governments, and their EU representatives, and I believe it will be of sufficient weight to overrule the small groups of influential quangos within the EU. They might have power, but nowhere near sufficient to make or break a matter as complex with as many players as this.

Leastways, that's what I think. I repeat,YMMV, and if I turn out to be wrong, then we jumped ship just in time!

Well eu doesn't really even have to be vindicative. No access to single market freely without free movement. Uk refuses. Uk gets screwed economically. Eu survives better without uk trade than otherway around. Strenght in numbers and geography. For all transports it's still more efficient to trade with nearby countries. How many non eu countries uk has close?

Companies are already reducing presence in uk or preparing for it. Prices going up for common people(who are the ones hurt must. Gg. You voted this yourself). Uk became nice little sinking ship. That's what happens when you follow populists.

 jhe90 wrote:
Toyota Aygo. Before that. Ford KA.

Aygo is made in the Czech Republic. The Ka is made in Poland by Fiat, but you probably owned the previous model which was made in Spain.

Now, where do you think all those British-made Nissan Qashqai or Honda Civics are going for the most part?

It is in the UK's best interest that trade flows smoothly, if only because exports to the EU make up 13% of UK GDP and exports to the UK make only 3% of the EU.

 jasper76 wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
A very interesting report from the BBC about how education is an important indicator of voting intentions.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39936927

The TL/DR is that the better educated you are, the more liberal you seem to get. We don't know why.

It could be something simple like professors at institutions of higher education are themselves disproportionately liberal and promote liberal agendas. That's certainly the case in the US, though I admit I don't know what its like in the UK.

That's a circular argument.

How so? Care to elaborate?

Because the question is why are people in institutes of higher learning more liberal, and your proposal is that it is because people at institutes of higher learning are more liberal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jhe90 wrote:
Toyota Aygo. Before that. Ford KA.

Nope. I can buy Japanese.
I can live without a Mercedes and buy a nice crysler, Lincoln or any other car maker.

That was the argument for the benefits of Brexit that the head of Wetherspoon's gave. It isn't an argument for a benefit so much as an argument that there won't be a disbenefit.

Because the question is why are people in institutes of higher learning more liberal, and your proposal is that it is because people at institutes of higher learning are more liberal.

No, thats not at all what you said.

You said "people who are better educated are more liberal". Not "People at Institutes of Higher Learning are more liberal". The former implies graduates, people who've gone through the system and moved on to a career outside of academia. The latter implies professors and academics, people who chose to "stay" in Higher Learning rather than move on.

The response to this is that the overwhelming bias towards liberalism in academia is a contributing factor to why people who are "better educated" (Graduates) are more liberal. If all your teachers and professors are liberal, and are teaching you liberal ideas and values, you're probably going to become a liberal yourself.

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/864949438531461129

Tory manifesto WILL include clear promise of cutting net migration down to tens of thousands, students will stay in totals

of course.

Perhaps some people will be glad to hear this

But I've ran out of things to say on this subject...

My reaction to these manifestos is well know: they are dull, bland, insipid, visionless, unimaginative plans, from bank managers acting as though the EU referendum never happened. No grand plan for 21st century Britain, just more managed decline for the British people...

And the June 8th result is a foregone conclusion, and I have nothing more to say about the EU or Scotland...

I think I've reached the end of the line until at least the Autumn.

I may drop in from time to time...

I'm still tempted to just take a steaming big gak on my ballot paper...

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


The response to this is that the overwhelming bias towards liberalism in academia is a contributing factor to why people who are "better educated" (Graduates) are more liberal.

Citation very much needed.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I'm still tempted to just take a steaming big gak on my ballot paper...

I wouldn't blame you. I know you disagree with Scottish independence, but at least it's a cause, a campaign, a vision that will take you somewhere.

I feel sorry for dakka members from the rest of the UK because they are being offered 3 shades of horsegak

What happened to reclaiming sovereignty? What's the point if you aren't going to exercise it?