Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

With summoning being a type of wild card reserves, do you think other armies than demons and GSC will get the ability to summon?

That's a tough call. I'd be willing to bet that at least Chaos Space Marines can, although it is likely limited.

It also looks like many psykers are getting set powers, like the Rubric Marine Sorcerer. So most armies may not have access to any kind of summoning
There may also be a lot of abilities that are just not Psychic powers anymore, like Force.

I actually anticipate Daemons to no longer have Deep Strike or whatever the 8th equivalent is, because Summoning will be there version of it.
I also really hope that Pink/Blue/Brimstone horrors still have the split rule and that it doesn't require points (because I'd rather just start them on the board if that's the case). But of course it would need to look a bit different than it does in 7th.

Aside from Chaos Daemons, my guess would be:

- Tyranids can summon in Termagants from Tervigons, and maybe Garygoyle, Trygons, and Mawlocs depending on how they set up the army. Summoning Ripper Swarms from undergroud might be fun too.

- Necron Flayed Ones might be summonable, if an army can summon without Psykers. Heck, Summoning might be a way to bring back casualties to units of Infantry.

- Imperium of Man can summon Legion of the Damned. I mean seriously, they are Warp entities that come in when help is needed; why not try to summon them? Maybe even Saint Celestine (or a generic Saint model might be cool if GW goes that way).

- Blood Angels can summon the Sanguinor.

I like the idea that "Summoning" can bring back casualties form a unit, but not necessarily for Daemons.
Tervigons could function like Necron Spiders do now for Scarabs, no psychic power needed. Just roll D6 and add that many models to a Gaunt unit within 6" up to their starting strength.

That wouldn't need points at all either. This mechanic could remain for Necron Spiders/Scarabs and Ghost Arks/Warriors.
Psychic Summoning could be solely for new units that require points

-

 Galef wrote:
That's a tough call. I'd be willing to bet that at least Chaos Space Marines can, although it is likely limited.

It also looks like many psykers are getting set powers, like the Rubric Marine Sorcerer. So most armies may not have access to any kind of summoning
There may also be a lot of abilities that are just not Psychic powers anymore, like Force.

I actually anticipate Daemons to no longer have Deep Strike or whatever the 8th equivalent is, because Summoning will be there version of it.
I also really hope that Pink/Blue/Brimstone horrors still have the split rule and that it doesn't require points (because I'd rather just start them on the board if that's the case). But of course it would need to look a bit different than it does in 7th.

In Age of Sigmar, a Summoning spell is automatically known by all the Wizards in your army. I would assume that the same is carried over to Psykers in 40K. It is a different mechanic than Deep Strike, which is had by several units for teleporting or flying into battle, and those units are picked at the list-building stage of the game. Summoning brings in a unit that was not previously in your list.

For example, I make a 1500 point army, but reserve 400 points for Summoning, so I have a 1100 point army that deploys as per normal, including Reserves and Deep Strike. On turn 3, I decide that my Level 2 Chaos Sorcerer needs to bring in a unit of Bloodletters for some support on the left flank, and some Pink Horrors on the right flank. I would cast the two spells, and, if successful, I would place the units on the table as per the summoning rules (my guess is they will arrive as if from Deep Strike). If the Bloodletters cost 100 points and the Pink Horrors cost 150, then I would still have 250 points remaining for Summoning in additional units next turn.

I don't play Tzeentch in Age of Sigmar, but I think that Pink/Blue/Brimstone Horrors splitting DOES require points. Heck, Saint Celestine and Commissar Yarrick would cost additional points to bring back with their current rules.

Hopefully KDK blood tithe will now be a universal Khorne ability to summon in Khorne Deamons. Allocate the points to summon as normal, but when you kill an enemy unit you're allowed to bring in one of your summons automatically (or maybe kill X number of units to summon Y number of units).

 Galef wrote:
That's a tough call. I'd be willing to bet that at least Chaos Space Marines can, although it is likely limited.

It also looks like many psykers are getting set powers, like the Rubric Marine Sorcerer. So most armies may not have access to any kind of summoning
There may also be a lot of abilities that are just not Psychic powers anymore, like Force.

I actually anticipate Daemons to no longer have Deep Strike or whatever the 8th equivalent is, because Summoning will be there version of it.
I also really hope that Pink/Blue/Brimstone horrors still have the split rule and that it doesn't require points (because I'd rather just start them on the board if that's the case). But of course it would need to look a bit different than it does in 7th.

Generally the power that lets you summon comes from the unit being summoned, not the caster.

In AoS, reinforcing an existing unit is free. Is just when you create a new unit from 0 that cost your points. So, a Tervigon reinforcing a Hormagant unit for example, will be free. If is like AoS.

 andysonic1 wrote:
Hopefully KDK blood tithe will now be a universal Khorne ability to summon in Khorne Deamons. Allocate the points to summon as normal, but when you kill an enemy unit you're allowed to bring in one of your summons automatically (or maybe kill X number of units to summon Y number of units).

that could be what the mysterious "blood for the blood god" is

I kind of hope the mechanic stays unique to summoning. It is a cool trait that will allow armies like Daemons to have a unique feature where they can summon things in to support the army according to their need. I don't think every army needs that toy and hopefully other kinds of reserves are pre-selected parts of your army.

It will make the different methods feel unique without a lot of extra work. Summoning allows for wild card deployments while traditional reserves are set units, but not beholden to a specific unit being present to bring them in.

I could definitely see other armies getting summoning besides Daemons though. Necrons seem like an obvious choice, phasing in reinforcements from a distant tomb world based on their current needs. Hell, 'Nids could probably use something similar.

But the Imperium? Nah, their shtick is being inflexible and hidebound, make us pre-select and pre-plan our reinforcements.

If you have to roll a successful power to summon, and you still pay exactly the same points. What advantage does summoning have, if any, over just buying units that can deepstrike when they arrive or simply deploy from the start if they want to? As I see it - a summoned unit is at a distinct disadvantage to a normal every day DS unit that doesn't rely on a psyker or a power roll to have to appear.
Am I missing something?

The advantage summoning has is you don't have to specify what you are summoning when you set aside the points. This allows you to tailor your army to your opponents army without being a metagaming jackwagon (eg: "oh you are playing marines" *furious scribbling on his list*" ok lets go"). If your opponent has lots of tanks summon lots of anti-tank units. GSC has very flexible summoning in 7th ed, as they could summon close combat focused troops or shooting units equipped to handle a variety of situations.

There are disadvantages to summoning like it's less reliable than reserves, and units that can be summoned have that ability baked into their point total (at least in AoS), but in the right hands it's a solid take all comers strategy. My guess is the only other TAC strategy in 8th ed will be to bring a little bit of everything.

As for summoning, Necrons might not be bad fluff wise for the addition, units like the Monolith and night scythe already use wormholes to summon units from distant tomb worlds often parsecs away from the fight, so it's not unfluffy. However I'm the first person to say fluff makes a terrible basis for rules, so they would probably only add it if there was some edition change induced deficiency. One area we know Necrons will probably summon is scarabs since scarab farm has been a Necron staple for a while now. It might only be to replace losses though because spiders can only summon one unit type, and without them being free I can't think of a reason not to start with them on the board.

Vampire elfs already summon

I think summoning as a pool of points could be a fun way to do off board artillery/orbital strikes/strafing/bombing runs. Different styles and types of munitions depending on the target. Probably with some inherent inaccuracy and delay.

Of course, that doesn’t sell models, so is unlikely to happen.

(Sorry, I try not to be cynical. I’ll go get another cup of coffee now)

Well blood for the blood go and all that so it wont really affect me, while I like the sound of randomised spells this will be good for balance I think, I also like this new idea for sumooning so it isnt spammed anymore, but my thoughts are why not just take the damn models and after they die spawn them again? Setting aside points seems a waste.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait just remembered versitility lol. Still dont think its worth it but eh.

I'm glad I only started into daemons and didnt go wild with buying models to summon but this is a little disheartening. I know summoning had been abused but my hope was using it for utility. Hard for me to imagine how Tz daemons will fair in the new edition but we've only seen pieces so far. I do have quite a few pinks/blues/brim horrors though. Trying to stay positive, didn't want to get into a new army for it to solely be for display.

If points are taken off the table can that be used to spawn stuff?

ShadowPug wrote:
If points are taken off the table can that be used to spawn stuff?

The way it works in AoS resummoning units that were previously destroyed (via a 'Reality Blinks' Daemonic Instability result, healing magic, whatnot) doesn't take summon points, but you can't summon something else for free because you had destroyed stuff behind you.

The problem with daemons and summoning is that daemons don't really have much in the way of versatility, Khorne being the poster child for I only do one thing. That makes summoning, less than ideal for single chaos god armies like the KDK. Chaos space marines, on the other hand, have a huge variety of things they can summon, and while it isn't free I think we will see the versatility pay off.

Malleus inquisitors might be able to summon daemons.

Also remember that they can avoid reserve roll shinanagins.

Think about Drop Pods with this availability...