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The new deep strike rules include a description for the Trygon's tunnel:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/17/new-warhammer-40000-reserves-and-deep-striking-may17gw-homepage-post-4/

It took them 5 minutes to fix it, but they had to wait 3 years to do it. Why did they wait?

Option 5, what's the point of fixing a chair in a burning house?

Feth the trygon...my god...the implications of that article are mind boggling Oo

 Purifier wrote:
Option 5, what's the point of fixing a chair in a burning house?

They Tyranid Codex was released with 7th ed in mind. It came out a month or 2 before the 7th ed main rulebook. It should have been a time for hope, not a time for despair.

Roknar wrote:Feth the trygon...my god...the implications of that article are mind boggling Oo

Not sure how prevalent it is in the current game, but not being able to hold an entire army in reserve sounds pretty huge to me. As a long term WHFB player, I really don't mind a dull first turn but maneuvering around an empty table isn't much fun. However, we will miss the potential for hilarity like this.

Purifier wrote:Option 5, what's the point of fixing a chair in a burning house?

I would also like to vote for option 5

I'm going with incompetence. They honestly thought people didn't care about points and played games from a "historical" perspective with pre-determined outcomes. In that case, "rolling" for "reserves" wasn't a thing; it just mattered that it could possibly happen in the rules and went with it.

But NuGW seems to have shook off that incompetence. Couldn't be happier!

Super happy about the Trygon. I might actually get to play Tyranids again without losing by default.

I don't get what is going on?

 Purifier wrote:
Option 5, what's the point of fixing a chair in a burning house?

I'd prefer to be comfortable in my final moments.

I am liking that a lot. It only means good things in the future for my Necrons and all the shenanigans I can potentially pull.

I dunno if it's allowed to be positive of GW on this board, but:

It almost sounds like they bothered to listen to players with this release (8th eidition as a whole I mean). They got some of the game's most influential players involved in their play testing - people who seem to understand how the game works, and how people like to play it. There used to be this mentality that GW knew how people wanted to play, and if you didn't want to "forge the narrative" you were just playing the game wrong. It seems they're taking in the actual playerbase opinions.

I guess for that reason I'd say it's probably 'Incompetence' - GW just don't understand their own game well enough to know when things aren't working. Perhaps we'll see changes to units like Mutilators and the hinted changes to Rough Riders now that GW have finally woken up to their playerbase.

At that time, they just didn't care. I don't think it mattered one bit to them which units were broken one way or the other.
It seems they may have turned a corner in their mind set but only time will tell.
I am quietly confident though that things are going to improve.

 Yarium wrote:
I'm going with incompetence. They honestly thought people didn't care about points and played games from a "historical" perspective with pre-determined outcomes. In that case, "rolling" for "reserves" wasn't a thing; it just mattered that it could possibly happen in the rules and went with it.

But NuGW seems to have shook off that incompetence. Couldn't be happier!

If you're correct, that suddenly makes a lot of GW's past actions make sense. I look at a lot of things that GW puts out, wondering if they even notice the implications. They can be forgiven for missing edge and corner cases, but sometimes I think they get so caught up in the fluff that they don't actually notice how the resulting game actually plays when people aren't just reenacting famous past battles. That would also explain why the book missions are so bloody doofy: they don't ever actually play them.

If that's correct, then bringing tournament players in for testing will help out a lot more than just the WAAC scene.

It also seems clear enough so far that they're not just listening to the loudest internet salt, either: if they had, Tau would be squatted, Eldar nerfed into worthlessness, Knights left in the fluff but no longer playable, Orks, Chaos Marines and Blood Angels the far and away most powerful factions (well, OK, that part is still possible), we'd have a dozen plastic Sisters kits on the way, and bolters would be a lot stronger. (Ok, I'm mostly taking the mickey here, but even still...)

 nurgle5 wrote:

Not sure how prevalent it is in the current game, but not being able to hold an entire army in reserve sounds pretty huge to me. As a long term WHFB player, I really don't mind a dull first turn but maneuvering around an empty table isn't much fun. However, we will miss the potential for hilarity like this.

I love that story

That being said, a Trygon followed up by a unit of Warriors and then they can still shoot and charge that turn? Color me horrified (don't tell the Commissar)

Today's update on Imperial Knights mentions that Trygons will be a threat to Knights with their "multiple D6 damage melee attacks". Sounds to me like they are going to be here to tear through big stuff.

jade_angel wrote:
If you're correct, that suddenly makes a lot of GW's past actions make sense. I look at a lot of things that GW puts out, wondering if they even notice the implications. They can be forgiven for missing edge and corner cases, but sometimes I think they get so caught up in the fluff that they don't actually notice how the resulting game actually plays when people aren't just reenacting famous past battles. That would also explain why the book missions are so bloody doofy: they don't ever actually play them.

If that's correct, then bringing tournament players in for testing will help out a lot more than just the WAAC scene.

It also seems clear enough so far that they're not just listening to the loudest internet salt, either: if they had, Tau would be squatted, Eldar nerfed into worthlessness, Knights left in the fluff but no longer playable, Orks, Chaos Marines and Blood Angels the far and away most powerful factions (well, OK, that part is still possible), we'd have a dozen plastic Sisters kits on the way, and bolters would be a lot stronger. (Ok, I'm mostly taking the mickey here, but even still...)

There was an article circulated a year ago where it pointed out that exact thing, as stated by Jervis Johnson. They played it where you already knew the end result, and just wanted to see how that would happen. So it wasn't "thing many points vs an even number of points" but instead "1000 points is going to die against 2000 points, let's see how long they held out for!".

tag8833 wrote:
The new deep strike rules include a description for the Trygon's tunnel:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/17/new-warhammer-40000-reserves-and-deep-striking-may17gw-homepage-post-4/

It took them 5 minutes to fix it, but they had to wait 3 years to do it. Why did they wait?

According to the Knight Faction Focus article it also has multiple D6 damage attacks that could potentially kill a Knight in a single assault.

They didn't just fix it, they made it a straight up murdermachine.

Will be real nice to see what tyrgons and mawlocks are like in the new edition. And Carnifex. And Exocrine.... etc

 Lance845 wrote:
Will be real nice to see what tyrgons and mawlocks are like in the new edition. And Carnifex. And Exocrine.... etc

What about Pyrovores?

pm713 wrote:
Super happy about the Trygon. I might actually get to play Tyranids again without losing by default.

I don't know what you mean by that. I'm still sitting here wondering how I'm going to kill off 4 Flyrants.

I mean, sure the Daemon Flying Circus is worse, but seriously, it's not losing by default if you can field an entire army of FMC's.

It will be nice to see Tyranid units other than the Flyrant being fielded, though.

I do hope they've upped it's Strength and toughness from 6.
When they came out with the 5th edition codex I was like "cool model, looks super strong and tough"
(Looks at statline) "Str 6 T 6 awwww"

Jbz` wrote:
I do hope they've upped it's Strength and toughness from 6.
When they came out with the 5th edition codex I was like "cool model, looks super strong and tough"
(Looks at statline) "Str 6 T 6 awwww"

It also has 6 wounds, which is more than resilient enough, considering S6 is the magic threshold for "I have to chip all these wounds away one at a time." I'm not sure what you were expecting. That's twice as much staying power as any of my tanks, with the added bonus of not being unable to shoot for losing one of those wounds.

I still don't know why MC's couldn't just be Walker Vehicles with armor values.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Jbz` wrote:
I do hope they've upped it's Strength and toughness from 6.
When they came out with the 5th edition codex I was like "cool model, looks super strong and tough"
(Looks at statline) "Str 6 T 6 awwww"

It also has 6 wounds, which is more than resilient enough, considering S6 is the magic threshold for "I have to chip all these wounds away one at a time." I'm not sure what you were expecting. That's twice as much staying power as any of my tanks, with the added bonus of not being unable to shoot for losing one of those wounds.

I still don't know why MC's couldn't just be Walker Vehicles with armor values.

Well as It's (almost) twice the size of all the previous monstrous creatures I was expecting higher than 6.
Str/T6 to me should be the realm of the smallest monstrous creatures.

The main benefit of the changes to the Str/T chart in eighth edition will be that they can make things have higher than T 6/7 if the model's size implies it without breaking it in the rules

The Trygon use to be T7 with 5 wounds and had the Gargantuan Creature rule, when it was still a Forge World Model. They changed it because, at the time, Gargantuan Creatures and Superheavies were unheard of in normal 40k. Fast forward 1.5 editions and these things became so commonplace that the once-terrifying and economic Trygon became a joke.

Jbz` wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Jbz` wrote:
I do hope they've upped it's Strength and toughness from 6.
When they came out with the 5th edition codex I was like "cool model, looks super strong and tough"
(Looks at statline) "Str 6 T 6 awwww"

It also has 6 wounds, which is more than resilient enough, considering S6 is the magic threshold for "I have to chip all these wounds away one at a time." I'm not sure what you were expecting. That's twice as much staying power as any of my tanks, with the added bonus of not being unable to shoot for losing one of those wounds.

I still don't know why MC's couldn't just be Walker Vehicles with armor values.

Well as It's (almost) twice the size of all the previous monstrous creatures I was expecting higher than 6.
Str/T6 to me should be the realm of the smallest monstrous creatures.

The main benefit of the changes to the Str/T chart in eighth edition will be that they can make things have higher than T 6/7 if the model's size implies it without breaking it in the rules

I thought the bigness was represented by the fact it had 6 wounds instead of the carnifex's 4. I imagine Toughness being "how hard it is to blow chunks off of it" and Wounds being "how many chunks can I blow off". The Trygon doesn't look particularly hard to take chunks off of, but it has a lot of chunks to lose, because its big, so T6, W6 makes sense. T7 W5 makes sense too. But it doesn't look as sturdy as a Leman Russ, or a Land Raider.

Anyway, with my formerly T10 W3 [equivalent] tanks being T8 W12, I can expect the Trygon to have a lot more than 6 wounds, maybe 12 or 15, and still be T6.

T6 is a magic number because there's very rarely anything in the game that couldn't harm it. This was the train of thought that went into the creation of the then-Tyranid Biotitans (Trygon, Mawloc, Tyrannofex, Tervigon and, to a lesser extent, the Harpy. The Harpy has a lower toughness and armor save on the reasoning that it's suppose to be "lighter" than the other biotitans). The reason subsequent Tyranid MCs retained this pattern is because they either copy-pasted the profiles over with minimal adjustments, or they lost the design memo stating this. Note that in 3rd and 4th editions, the Carnifex can easily get T7 and W5 for a pittance of what they should be worth.

Asura Varuna wrote:
I dunno if it's allowed to be positive of GW on this board, but:

It almost sounds like they bothered to listen to players with this release (8th eidition as a whole I mean). They got some of the game's most influential players involved in their play testing - people who seem to understand how the game works, and how people like to play it. There used to be this mentality that GW knew how people wanted to play, and if you didn't want to "forge the narrative" you were just playing the game wrong. It seems they're taking in the actual playerbase opinions.

I guess for that reason I'd say it's probably 'Incompetence' - GW just don't understand their own game well enough to know when things aren't working. Perhaps we'll see changes to units like Mutilators and the hinted changes to Rough Riders now that GW have finally woken up to their playerbase.

Paraphrasing but "we dont do market research"


Im going to miss age of Kirby. god emperor of memes and quotes.

Option: They who made 7th is not all the same "they" making 8th... or enough of a shake up that it might as well be a different group.

Pretty sure AoS guys got promoted to the big show, snark and all

There was nothing wrong with the Trygon as such, now if your talking about the back up units using the tunnels then............no, still nothing wrong.

trygon will have more than T6.