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From what I am seeing there isn't anything really great for the Orks.

We get 3wound Mega Nobz which is great, but since weapons now do multiple wounds per shot this might not even matter a whole hell of a lot.

We get Da Jump, and it actually functions like it should have been doing all this time. Problem is its going to still be a 9in Charge.

We got old Mob Rule (this is probably the biggest buff) but it brings back the old problem of Smaller, specialized units being all but unplayable because of LD issues.

We lost our 5+ FNP, this is a big deal and realistically, even giving it to several different units doesn't negate this. Since our characters all lacked Invuls we had to rely on that 5+ FNP to save our characters more often then not, especially if you ran Warboss on a Bike.

The +1 attack for Choppas is nice, but im wondering if this is a stacking buff. In other words, do we still get +1 attacks for having 2 CC weapons or is this basically that and our Choppas just function as they always did?

Overall I am not sold on this new edition, realistically it cant be worse then 7th which saw orks at the bottom of the heap, competing against the other no love factions for worst.

What I really wanted to see was more love for orks, especially giving us some kind of option on play style (which still might happen). 7th edition was extremely boring as an ork player. You either ran Bikes or Boyz in Trukkz. Everything else was easily killed or ignored. (if you bring up our Bully Boyz formation i'll gladly point out numerous builds that liquidated this that weren't even tournament level.)

Anyway, Fingers Crossed.

SemperMortis wrote:
From what I am seeing there isn't anything really great for the Orks.

We get 3wound Mega Nobz which is great, but since weapons now do multiple wounds per shot this might not even matter a whole hell of a lot.

From my figuring, a Meganob has a 1/3 chance to save against a Lascannon wound and then there is a 1/3 chance the Lascannon won't kill him outright. I'm not so great at the math, and the coffee hasn't kicked in, but doesn't that mean that the chances of a Meganob dying after being shot by a Lascannon are about 50/50? Throw on top a 6+ FNP if they're in range of a Painboy and the odds tip in the favor of the Meganob surviving being wounded by a Lascannon. That seems pretty great, but maybe I'm figuring it wrong.

If a Devastator Squad with Lascannons or a standard Landraider spends several turns shooting at a footslogging unit of five MANz they'll probably wipe out the nobz, but that doesn't seem too unreasonable.

With them handing out +1 T for fancy armor on the Primaris Marines there's a chance Mega Armor might do the same thing. Probably not, but I can hope! That would mean most AT weapons would only be wounding on a 3+ not a 2+. In the rare even that happens maybe MANz Wall will be the new Kan Wall..

SemperMortis wrote:
We got old Mob Rule (this is probably the biggest buff) but it brings back the old problem of Smaller, specialized units being all but unplayable because of LD issues.

From the article it sounds like there will be some mechanic where a mob of orks can use another nearby mob's Leadership. So if there's a small unit of Burnas next to a big mob of Slugga Boyz maybe it will be effectively immune to Battleshock? Also they mentioned Warbosses and Nobz being able to mitigate the effects of Battleshock, so we've got a lot of options.

SemperMortis wrote:
We lost our 5+ FNP, this is a big deal and realistically, even giving it to several different units doesn't negate this. Since our characters all lacked Invuls we had to rely on that 5+ FNP to save our characters more often then not, especially if you ran Warboss on a Bike.

It's hard to say yet, but maybe we'll get a Cybork Body that stacks with the FNP from the Painboy? Or it could give an invulnerable save. Or maybe Cybork Bodies will cease to exist.

The Ork faction teaser was a little light on details, but there have been bits from other teasers and the recent leaks that are making things look positive. Things like the removal of initiative, and being able to fire Assault Weapons while advancing, and vehicles potentially doing a lot of damage in close combat.

Cover rules are kinda an issue large mobs are always going to have boyz in the open which means your looking at 6's following 6's.

Meanwhile 5 numarines sit in cover enjoying 2+ saves while belching out plasma.

The new cover rule is way cool for marines and equivalents than for hordes.

On 7th a marine on a ruin can save at 3+ or 4+ vs fp3 and such
Orks can save at 4+

Now marines can saves 2+, saving against low ap maybe at 5+ or 6+.
Orks saves at 5+....so really will no save never but vs normal bolter an such.


So yeah, for marines and equivalents is a buff. For orks is a huge nerf

Looking back at cover, it works if you're in or touching cover. So area cover (like a wood) works fine to bump armour up by +1.

So 'ard Boyz in trees have Power Armour.

hehehe

But after see they drop the marine cost point hope orks are cheaper too xD

It's going to be interesting to figure out, since as I understand it flamers no longer ignore cover but cover just adds a bonus rather than an invulnerable save. Now weapons with good AP are going to be better for removing units from cover. So, maybe Kustom Mega Kannons are going to be really good at dislodging units hiding in cover? I don't think they've released rules for other flame weapons yet, so maybe Burna Bommers will get a bonus attack against units in cover? Heck, maybe Flash Gitz will be really useful depending on how they do the new rules for them.

The rules for some plasma weapons have been leaked. It looks like human plasma weapons don't Get Hot unless the player chooses to super charge them, in which case they get +1 Strength and +1 Damage. It also looks like now if a weapon does get hot the model using it is slain, so it's a bigger deal for models that used to have multiple wounds and/or good armor. I'm not sure if Kustom Mega weapons will have something similar or not. I just can't see orks not choosing to supercharge their weapons. Still, it makes putting a Kustom Mega Blasta on a Big Mek in Mega Armor pretty risky since he probably won't hit anything with it anyway. Maybe the rules will be different for orks and/or characters with plasma weapons.

human plasma weapons were, more or less, the worst plasma weapons of the game, including orks xD. Now are the better ones by the grace of the emperor (to much evident they want make primaris marines beasts so people buy them).

The main problem is unit like lootas and such kind of units with low armor. They wil lsave at 5+. A heavy bolter rest 1, the new bolter rifle from the primaris also rest 1. And surely a lot more of weapons with lot of shoots will reduce too....so from save more or less a 50% to save a 90% or none xDD


Well, if that comes with a point cost drop or they give a 4+ save...ok xD

I'll be honest, if Orks get the Marine plasma rules, as a rule I'd probably Overcharge mine all the time because, you know, Orks.

On a different note, I don't think Ork boyz need to get cheaper, but the 'Ard Boy upgrade does. With things like the Primaris bolters and what Skitarri Rangers look like they might be (they might be -1AP based on the current stats) the upgrade means we'd only have a 5+ save.

On a different note, anyone else think of stealing the Slab Shield from Ogryns for 'Ard Boyz and Nobs?

hahaha well, in general the actual orks need sooooooooooo many buffs to be competitive that i have no idea for where start xD

Cheaper Orks aren,t the answer so much as cheaper upgrades...

ok, then cheaper orks and cheaper upgrades!!!! winxwin xDDDDDDDDDDD

But indeed if a marine with his way better atributes, a 3+ and better rules cost 13 pts, a hard boy should cost near the half or a bit more. For example 7 or so points since a tau is 8 or 9 i think and also has 4+ armor

Thought about Burnas....you can run and shoot assault weapons and autohit with flamers,

Fastest Infantry unit in the army and they can potentially dish out a lot of wounds. Even on average 5 Burnas do 17.5 (3.5*5) wounds from shooting.

Disembark 3" from a Trukk, run an avg of 3.5", shoot 8"... That's an14.5" threat range on average from a vehicle they ride in....

That,s not even looking at throwing extra Boyz into a squad either...

Don't forget that disembarking does not count as having moved, so add an extra 5 or 6" to that number.

It actually grinds my gears a little to hear people inaccurately complain about how difficult it is to plan a charge using a transport's passengers...

Burnas should just be downright frightening to units. "you gits can run, but you'll only die tired and on fire!"

Yeah, true about burnas.... But how much will cost? weapons that can shoot after run and will do autohits? pfff, sounds expensive xDD

Franarok wrote:
Yeah, true about burnas.... But how much will cost? weapons that can shoot after run and will do autohits? pfff, sounds expensive xDD

5-10 points like before? I mean it's flamer/power weapon combo...

Other than a few ranged weapons we are clueless on costs so its Impossible to speculate.

SemperMortis wrote:
From what I am seeing there isn't anything really great for the Orks.

We get 3wound Mega Nobz which is great, but since weapons now do multiple wounds per shot this might not even matter a whole hell of a lot.

We get Da Jump, and it actually functions like it should have been doing all this time. Problem is its going to still be a 9in Charge.

We got old Mob Rule (this is probably the biggest buff) but it brings back the old problem of Smaller, specialized units being all but unplayable because of LD issues.

We lost our 5+ FNP, this is a big deal and realistically, even giving it to several different units doesn't negate this. Since our characters all lacked Invuls we had to rely on that 5+ FNP to save our characters more often then not, especially if you ran Warboss on a Bike.

The +1 attack for Choppas is nice, but im wondering if this is a stacking buff. In other words, do we still get +1 attacks for having 2 CC weapons or is this basically that and our Choppas just function as they always did?

Overall I am not sold on this new edition, realistically it cant be worse then 7th which saw orks at the bottom of the heap, competing against the other no love factions for worst.

What I really wanted to see was more love for orks, especially giving us some kind of option on play style (which still might happen). 7th edition was extremely boring as an ork player. You either ran Bikes or Boyz in Trukkz. Everything else was easily killed or ignored. (if you bring up our Bully Boyz formation i'll gladly point out numerous builds that liquidated this that weren't even tournament level.)

Anyway, Fingers Crossed.

I think you're under selling what orks got/their interactions with the new rules.

3 wound meganobs is good at face value, but you're also massively under selling the advantage going to the new so system has. They're going to have at worst a 6+ save (assuming we can out at ap-4). That means against typical ap2 weaponry of 7th they became terminators.

It's a 9 inch charge from any unit on turn 1. And you get to reroll failed charges and you can use command points to reroll.

Mob rule is a huge buff and works to help smaller nearby units, and the warboss can stop morale issues and nobs can stop morale issues. Not really seeing the unplayable part. Yeah morale matters now, to every army and it's harsh, but orks seem to have a plethora of ways to mitigate.

Sure the painboy is only 6+ but being able to give it to multiple units is a buff (ditto with kff). That said we don't know what cybork body is and again many units don't need to the invul as much because the ap system isn't so either or now.

As far as we can tell you won't get an extra attack for 2 melee weapons, which still leaves most boyz buffed because they can shoot their pistol in cc now, which is an extra .5 attacks (since I'm guessing only fire on their own turn).

Beyond that you've neglected the massive boost to transports which should help a melee army. And the fact the new so system massively benefits armies where the typical troops got no save vs small arms. Also the change to assault weapons being able to advance and shoot means even footslogging boyz picked up buffs. All in all there is a lot to be hopeful about. Now too much random or bad costing could wreck the boyz but everything I've seen so far leads me to be optimistic.

Yup, but also regular cover now is worst to orks. When on 7th you saved on a 4+, now you have a 5+ armor. And most decent weapons but regular bolters will rest something to the save.

Meanwhile armored units will get a 2+ save, way better than before vs most of low ap orks weapons.


That is a huge general nerf to orks and hope GW take in count (even if dont think so, because since 4th they hated orks so much and always ignore them hahahaa)

Franarok wrote:
Yup, but also regular cover now is worst to orks. When on 7th you saved on a 4+, now you have a 5+ armor. And most decent weapons but regular bolters will rest something to the save.

Meanwhile armored units will get a 2+ save, way better than before vs most of low ap orks weapons.


That is a huge general nerf to orks and hope GW take in count (even if dont think so, because since 4th they hated orks so much and always ignore them hahahaa)

Nerf isn't really the right term. 8th is so different from 7th most things are completely incomparable.

ERJAK wrote:

Franarok wrote:
Yup, but also regular cover now is worst to orks. When on 7th you saved on a 4+, now you have a 5+ armor. And most decent weapons but regular bolters will rest something to the save.

Meanwhile armored units will get a 2+ save, way better than before vs most of low ap orks weapons.


That is a huge general nerf to orks and hope GW take in count (even if dont think so, because since 4th they hated orks so much and always ignore them hahahaa)

Nerf isn't really the right term. 8th is so different from 7th most things are completely incomparable.

Why? Orks go from having a 4+ Cover save against most things (5+ in trees or for intervening models) to a 5+ save if EVERY SINGLE ORK is in a terrain piece.

That's pretty comparable.

I'm not sure your logic really works there. You're saying that an across the board +1 is somehow worse for one army than another because they have different saves to begin with? It's the exact same 16.66% bonus for everyone. The cost of that base armour save is (ostensibly) accounted for in the cost of the model in question. There's no nerf there.

A direct comparison to 7th is an apples and oranges comparison anyway. It's not the same mechanic. Sure, you sometimes got a 4+ in 7th, but there were also a ton of weapons that ignored it completely. This in a context on entirely different rules for bypassing armour. It's not the same thing at all, and the comparison isn't helped by taking it out of context in both cases. You'd need to more ganular to even begin to make that comparison (and do a lot of pretty boring math).

IDK, I think there's little to complain about for Orks in 8th, at least about the stuff we know. You get saves against more things, you can stack a better FNP and/or Inv on top of that in bubbles, and you're, essentially, moving nearly 10" a turn and still firing weapons. Sounds good to me.

 JNAProductions wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

Franarok wrote:
Yup, but also regular cover now is worst to orks. When on 7th you saved on a 4+, now you have a 5+ armor. And most decent weapons but regular bolters will rest something to the save.

Meanwhile armored units will get a 2+ save, way better than before vs most of low ap orks weapons.


That is a huge general nerf to orks and hope GW take in count (even if dont think so, because since 4th they hated orks so much and always ignore them hahahaa)

Nerf isn't really the right term. 8th is so different from 7th most things are completely incomparable.

Why? Orks go from having a 4+ Cover save against most things (5+ in trees or for intervening models) to a 5+ save if EVERY SINGLE ORK is in a terrain piece.

That's pretty comparable.

First of all, Orks never got any cover save because 99% of armies had ignores cover coming out of their butts.

Secondly, if EVERYTHING ELSE is completely different then a 1 to 1 comparison of a single small rule is ignoring just...just soo many other factors involved in what makes it good or bad that it really doesn't offer anything meaningful.

Well we can only discuss what we know so far, yeah maybe something's in there to help but it could also not be.

As it stands at this moment its going to involve more model removing in 8th when running hordes.

And that's a valid concern.

Well, the fact is that most of weapons that before ignored a 3+ armor, now wil lallow a marine in cover maybe save at 5+ or so.

But most of weapons will quit the save of the orks in cover, since is just a 5+

So where before a marine can use the cover save, now on most of cases he still can and will be near the same (since they gain a 2+ armor).
But where an ork could use the cover save, now will be worst than before or, directly, can not use it. No mention the need be all in cover xD

That is an objetive nerf compared with the previous situation. So should have some influence on how they balance the army in other aspects

Ditto with Twin-Linked Weapons. Strictly speaking, "doubling shots" versus granting flat re-rolls to-hit will favor higher Ballistic Skill versus what's in the current edition.

Not to mention the hilarity that wlll be trying to hit stuff with a Killkannon now. If you thought boom Battlewagons were bad in 7th, you ain't seen nothing yet. Maybe it will luck out and get 3d6 shots (it's a really big blast, hurhur), or maybe GW will forget to give the Battlewagon (or any of the other Orky vehicles) a special rule to ignore the -1 BS penalty on the move; enjoy trying to hit a target when you only get d6 shots and they only hit on 6s.

At least Grots can stop a vehicle in its tracks, with Tank Shock no longer being a thing.

I like this new edition.
Hordes of ork boys are now a viable tactic again. I better start converting some weirdboyz and painboyz.

 Novelist47 wrote:
I like this new edition.
Hordes of ork boys are now a viable tactic again. I better start converting some weirdboyz and painboyz.

It's gonna be difficult to fight against tough vehicles and the old super heavies with boyz on foot. Some stuff has got 20+ wounds and a 3+ save. Power klaws will probably only do D3 damage, it's gonna take a lot of Nobz to knock down an Imperial Knight!

xlDuke wrote:

 Novelist47 wrote:
I like this new edition.
Hordes of ork boys are now a viable tactic again. I better start converting some weirdboyz and painboyz.

It's gonna be difficult to fight against tough vehicles and the old super heavies with boyz on foot. Some stuff has got 20+ wounds and a 3+ save. Power klaws will probably only do D3 damage, it's gonna take a lot of Nobz to knock down an Imperial Knight!

killsaws will likely be the answer if you want to do it in foot, and someone just leaked the stats for deffrollas which are very cool (str 8 ap -2, d6 hits)