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We've gotten some insight into how flyers will work from today's leaks.

The "Fly" keyword applies to both true flyers and units that were classically designated as skimmers, such as the Devilfish. It is also the trigger keyword for anti-air or air-to-ground effects. For example, the Renegade Knight's autocannon array has a +1 vs. the Fly keyword and -1 vs. anything without it.

"True" flyers, like the T'au Sunshark, have a set of rules that basically replicate the current flyer mechanics. They have a minimum movement in their profile, the Supersonic rule which requires them to pivot up to 90 degrees before moving, and are Hard to Hit (-1 to hit them). They are also Airborne, and thus cannot be charged or fought by anything without the Fly keyword (and vice versa). This does open the door up to interesting situations like an Eldar Falcon attempting to clip a Thunderbolt in midair. Note that with a minimum move and restricted turning, flyers will have to work very hard not to go off the map and be destroyed.

There are also some flyers that do not get these rules, notably the Helldrake. It has no minimum move or movement-restricting special rules, so is very mobile at the cost of being easier to engage- although since it has the Fly keyword and gains a bonus against airborne targets, it is still an antiair threat. This seems to be the paradigm they are applying to "slower" flyers, possibly including winged daemon princes or tyranids.

The one unanswered question is how they'll be handling Hover Mode vehicles like the Valkyrie.

I like how the Chaos Dino-dragon is good at killing other flyers in meele. It looks more like a real dragon than a flyer.

This is honestly just a big Disappointment for me :(
Flyers where the one big thing i thought could have slide into 40k and added a real new element to the game.
But following on from how they have been in the passed so closely kinda sucks :(

 Galas wrote:
I like how the Chaos Dino-dragon is good at killing other flyers in meele.

Yeah, no more need for a wonky Vector Strike mechanic.

 Galas wrote:
I like how the Chaos Dino-dragon is good at killing other flyers in meele. It looks more like a real dragon than a flyer.

I love how the Heldrake can chew up other flyers easily as well as the fact that it can practically assault anything first turn with that 30" move.

 Formerly Wu wrote:
We've gotten some insight into how flyers will work from today's leaks.

The "Fly" keyword applies to both true flyers and units that were classically designated as skimmers, such as the Devilfish. It is also the trigger keyword for anti-air or air-to-ground effects. For example, the Renegade Knight's autocannon array has a +1 vs. the Fly keyword and -1 vs. anything without it.

"True" flyers, like the T'au Sunshark, have a set of rules that basically replicate the current flyer mechanics. They have a minimum movement in their profile, the Supersonic rule which requires them to pivot up to 90 degrees before moving, and are Hard to Hit (-1 to hit them). They are also Airborne, and thus cannot be charged or fought by anything without the Fly keyword (and vice versa). Note that this does open the door up to interesting situations like an Eldar Falcon attempting to clip a Thunderbolt in midair. Note that with a minimum move and restricted turning, flyers will have to work very hard not to go off the map and be destroyed.

There are also some flyers that do not get these rules, notably the Helldrake. It has no minimum move or movement-restricting special rules, so is very mobile at the cost of being easier to engage- although since it has the Fly keyword and gains a bonus against airborne targets, it is still an antiair threat. This seems to be the paradigm they are applying to "slower" flyers, possibly including winged daemon princes or tyranids.

The one unanswered question is how they'll be handling Hover Mode vehicles like the Valkyrie.

Where is the Tau profile? I have only seen BA and starter leaks.

Apple fox wrote:
This is honestly just a big Disappointment for me :(
Flyers where the one big thing i thought could have slide into 40k and added a real new element to the game.
But following on from how they have been in the passed so closely kinda sucks :(

Keep in mind that Death from the Skies will be part of the Advanced Rules section, so we'll likely see some more differentiation there as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lance845 wrote:

Where is the Tau profile? I have only seen BA and starter leaks.

It was on Facebook, but has since been deleted. It's possible someone saved screenshots, though.

Why does it feel like the more rules that leak for 8e, the more I feel like its falling apart.

Flyers are feeling less like something amazing and like they are actually thousands of feet in the air. Feeling more like fast moving hover rhinos.

 Formerly Wu wrote:

Apple fox wrote:
This is honestly just a big Disappointment for me :(
Flyers where the one big thing i thought could have slide into 40k and added a real new element to the game.
But following on from how they have been in the passed so closely kinda sucks :(

Keep in mind that Death from the Skies will be part of the Advanced Rules section, so we'll likely see some more differentiation there as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lance845 wrote:

Where is the Tau profile? I have only seen BA and starter leaks.

It was on Facebook, but has since been deleted. It's possible someone saved screenshots, though.

Please do not say that D; You are killing my hope !
I will honestly be more disappointed with Death from the Skies Inspiration.

 Formerly Wu wrote:
There are also some flyers that do not get these rules, notably the Helldrake. It has no minimum move or movement-restricting special rules, so is very mobile at the cost of being easier to engage- although since it has the Fly keyword and gains a bonus against airborne targets, it is still an antiair threat. This seems to be the paradigm they are applying to "slower" flyers, possibly including winged daemon princes or tyranids.

The one unanswered question is how they'll be handling Hover Mode vehicles like the Valkyrie.

Oh, I think you did just answer yourself there

The funniest will have to be the Tau Manta. How the feth is that 3ft wide model going to stay on the table?

 Lance845 wrote:
The funniest will have to be the Tau Manta. How the feth is that 3ft wide model going to stay on the table?

While somewhat amusing to consider in theory, will this really be an issue in real life?

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
The funniest will have to be the Tau Manta. How the feth is that 3ft wide model going to stay on the table?

While somewhat amusing to consider in theory, will this really be an issue in real life?

How the feth would anyone know? lol Nobody has seen a single full xenos profile outside of a sniper drone.

I suspect Valkyries might be able to toggle between two movement profiles: a fast one with the Supersonic restrictions and protections, and a slower one that lacks those.

Though with that heavy nerf to Hard to Hit, and how generous skimmer/subsonic movement profiles can apparently be, I wonder if Valkyries might just find that it's better to stay in Hover mode most of the time because -1 to get hit isn't enough protection to justify the turning restrictions. Though since you probably toggle at the start of your movement phase, if they want to cross the board in a hurry (maybe to do a grav-chute drop) they might toggle to supersonic, zip across the board, then drop back down to hover next turn.

It'll be interesting times for the Hydra though, with its target list now including jump infantry.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

The one unanswered question is how they'll be handling Hover Mode vehicles like the Valkyrie.

Oh, I think you did just answer yourself there

Yeah, there's a common sense answer to it- a toggle like ross describes, which would make them work almost exactly like now. Didn't want to assume, though.

Please do not say that D; You are killing my hope !
I will honestly be more disappointed with Death from the Skies Inspiration.

To each their own, I suppose. I rather liked DFtS.

 Talamare wrote:
Why does it feel like the more rules that leak for 8e, the more I feel like its falling apart.

Flyers are feeling less like something amazing and like they are actually thousands of feet in the air. Feeling more like fast moving hover rhinos.

Thats the abstraction you need to make to have Flyers playing in a 6x4 board in a game of infantry and tanks, and make them interact with other miniatures in a fun way.

 Lance845 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
The funniest will have to be the Tau Manta. How the feth is that 3ft wide model going to stay on the table?

While somewhat amusing to consider in theory, will this really be an issue in real life?

How the feth would anyone know? lol Nobody has seen a single full xenos profile outside of a sniper drone.

I meant that nobody will field a Manta anyway.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
The funniest will have to be the Tau Manta. How the feth is that 3ft wide model going to stay on the table?

While somewhat amusing to consider in theory, will this really be an issue in real life?

How the feth would anyone know? lol Nobody has seen a single full xenos profile outside of a sniper drone.

I meant that nobody will field a Manta anyway.

Ah, yeah thats also true. I do want to see one one day if for no other reason than the thing is bonkers. But yeah. I doubt very much that I will ever see one in play.

 Talamare wrote:
Why does it feel like the more rules that leak for 8e, the more I feel like its falling apart.

Because you hate functional game design.

Flyers should have never been in the game to begin with- the scale isn't big enough to accommodate supersonic vehicles with weaponry that can be fired from thousands of meters away- and it's evident by how flyers in 6th and 7th have pretty much without exception been either overpowered (Flyrant, Doom Scythes etc) or useless dogshit (post 7th Doomscythes, Sunsharks, etc).

I'm glad you don't require snapshots to hit flyers anymore because that grants them more room in their power-budget for increased durability and firepower.

Apple fox wrote:

 Formerly Wu wrote:

Apple fox wrote:
This is honestly just a big Disappointment for me :(
Flyers where the one big thing i thought could have slide into 40k and added a real new element to the game.
But following on from how they have been in the passed so closely kinda sucks :(

Keep in mind that Death from the Skies will be part of the Advanced Rules section, so we'll likely see some more differentiation there as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lance845 wrote:

Where is the Tau profile? I have only seen BA and starter leaks.

It was on Facebook, but has since been deleted. It's possible someone saved screenshots, though.

Please do not say that D; You are killing my hope !
I will honestly be more disappointed with Death from the Skies Inspiration.

I am benevolent.

 SeraphimXIX wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Why does it feel like the more rules that leak for 8e, the more I feel like its falling apart.

Because you hate functional game design.

Flyers should have never been in the game to begin with- the scale isn't big enough to accommodate supersonic vehicles with weaponry that can be fired from thousands of meters away- and it's evident by how flyers in 6th and 7th have pretty much without exception been either overpowered (Flyrant, Doom Scythes etc) or useless dogshit (post 7th Doomscythes, Sunsharks, etc).

I'm glad you don't require snapshots to hit flyers anymore because that grants them more room in their power-budget for increased durability and firepower.

This man here speaks the truth. Is like Knights and titans. They shoudln't have been into normal 40k. But now that they are to stay, we have to make more abstract rules to have a fuctional gameplay.

A 20" minimum move is definitely going to be a bit tricky to keep on a 6x4 table. Be careful which way you turn!

It is mostly a symptom of the fact that supersonic speed just doesn't really fit into the board's default scale though. While they can be cool/fun to play, they are perhaps more appropriate in Apocalypse games where they have more room to maneuver.

 Galas wrote:

 SeraphimXIX wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Why does it feel like the more rules that leak for 8e, the more I feel like its falling apart.

Because you hate functional game design.

Flyers should have never been in the game to begin with- the scale isn't big enough to accommodate supersonic vehicles with weaponry that can be fired from thousands of meters away- and it's evident by how flyers in 6th and 7th have pretty much without exception been either overpowered (Flyrant, Doom Scythes etc) or useless dogshit (post 7th Doomscythes, Sunsharks, etc).

I'm glad you don't require snapshots to hit flyers anymore because that grants them more room in their power-budget for increased durability and firepower.

This man here speaks the truth. Is like Knights and titans. They shoudln't have been into normal 40k. But now that they are to stay, we have to make more abstract rules to have a fuctional gameplay.

Seconded.

Yea, technically some ranges are so long that things like basilisks shouldn't even be on the battlefield. The scale changes are just a wacky thing that you have to look at abstractly.

I like the fluff aspect of jump pack infantry tangling in melee with fliers. Really fitting for ork stormboyz if you ask me.

And sure, they're easier to hit, but they have quadruple the wounds, so theres that.

Wow that's stupid. Supersonic fighter jets fighting in melee, aircraft that have to stay within an invisible box or instantly explode, and flyers are just barely harder to hit than any other unit. The more I see of 8th the more I'm convinced it's another spectacular failure of a game and needs to die ASAP.

 Peregrine wrote:
Supersonic fighter jets fighting in melee,

They can't charge themselves, and have very poor combat characteristics. It's more to streamline their interaction with other units that could/should be able to attack them. Their attacks represent them clipping a wing or such on unfortunates who get in the way.

aircraft that have to stay within an invisible box or instantly explode,

This does irk me. They look to be pulling back hard on reserves shenanigans, and this seems to be an unnecessary casualty of that.

and flyers are just barely harder to hit than any other unit.

They're also noticeably more durable, at least at first blush.

The more I see of 8th the more I'm convinced it's another spectacular failure of a game and needs to die ASAP.

The nice thing about being a pessimist is that you can only be pleasantly surprised.

Apple fox wrote:

 Formerly Wu wrote:

Apple fox wrote:
This is honestly just a big Disappointment for me :(
Flyers where the one big thing i thought could have slide into 40k and added a real new element to the game.
But following on from how they have been in the passed so closely kinda sucks :(

Keep in mind that Death from the Skies will be part of the Advanced Rules section, so we'll likely see some more differentiation there as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lance845 wrote:

Where is the Tau profile? I have only seen BA and starter leaks.

It was on Facebook, but has since been deleted. It's possible someone saved screenshots, though.

Please do not say that D; You are killing my hope !
I will honestly be more disappointed with Death from the Skies Inspiration.

You can find them all here: http://pintorjoakero.blogspot.com.es/2017/05/taus-8th-index-leaks.html

 Formerly Wu wrote:
They can't charge themselves, and have very poor combat characteristics. It's more to streamline their interaction with other units that could/should be able to attack them. Their attacks represent them clipping a wing or such on unfortunates who get in the way.

It's still stupid even if they can't charge. Aircraft should not be fighting in melee, period. They're too high off the ground and way too fast (except when hovering and no longer counting as flyers). The very very very few units that should be capable of hitting a flyer with melee attacks can get their own special rules for it, and even that is pretty questionable.

They're also noticeably more durable, at least at first blush.

I'm not seeing it. T6/W12/SV4+ vs. T6/W6/SV4+ for a Piranha or T7/W13/SV3+ for a Hammerhead. So, double the durability of a Piranha, which is a pretty good approximation of AV 11/3HP vs. AV10/2HP in 7th. And it's well short of the durability of a real tank. So the only defense you get his the -1 penalty to hit, which is absolutely insane.

The big question in my opinion is "Do they start in reserves?" if they do they're totally worse than 7th edition flyers.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
The big question in my opinion is "Do they start in reserves?" if they do they're totally worse than 7th edition flyers.

The sunshark doesn't seem to have to.