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BrianDavion wrote:
over all 8th edition seems to be designed to be "Age of infantry" I think, we a few exceptions, we're going to see most armies fielding infantry backed by a handful of vehicles for special duties.
what those vehicle choices are I suspect will vary from army to army, but I suspect they'll be mostly to eaither crack other vehicles open, and or destroy small multi-wound squads (like inceptors, obliterators etc )

Ex guard player here from 3rd edition.

If your intrested in seeing how your army will play look to AoS and how charcters interact with units. Most charcters have an aura type ability which improves all units within a given area. So a single charcter may be able to improve the ahooting of 3 tanks and 2 squads of infantry at the same time.

IG tanks will probably drop in price or stay the same. They are making the armies feel more like thier supposed to. SM vehicles are going up because thier supposed to be a Infantry focused army, Nid MCs are going down cause space bugs. If you think anything other than tanks when you think IG im not sure what game your playing but it aint 40k.

Also expect to have new upgrades for command squads for vehicles specifically, probably something like a repair kit which lets you heal vehicles. Oh hull down will also be an IG only thing +1 armor for tanks that dont move in the movement phase.

 Commissar Benny wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Here we go:

Thanks for putting that together. If this data is correct, its still not very impressive. An LR exterminator is going to be putting out more wounds per round guaranteed every time. 8 shots at -1, d3 wounds.

No, the exterminator only has two auto cannons meaning 4 shots. I will bet money that it loses the twin linked special rule. I don't know why it has it in the first place.

Russ weapon stats.

 Commissar Benny wrote:

 SeraphimXIX wrote:
Its only age of infantry for factions with vehicles, which is why it is kind if a slap in the face. Almost every tyranid MC got a buff AND a price reduction. Freakin strength 12 t7 26" threat-range carnifex are only ~80 points a pop. You can bet that all the MC heavy factions are going to be spamming their "vehicles".

It definitely is. If IG players thought bubble wrapping was bad in previous editions, 8th edition is going to be bubble wrap on steroids. We are finding out that almost every army will be able to assault turn 1. Now that vehicles can charge, we are going to see opponents just ram into our tanks to tie them up & prevent them from shooting. Worse yet, if your men are not spaced out properly, enemy infantry could potentially kill one squad, then move onto the next and the next & wipe out half your army in one turn.

8th edition is going to be all about infantry, especially if the rumors of 40 pt infantry squads are true.

Yeah your not going to lose half your army in one turn. 8th is not "all about infantry" they are try to put the soul back into the armies. Infantry armies are going to be infantry armies again. Nids will be about big bugs, Tau will be suit mastas, IG is and has always been about tanks. Your infantry will do the job it was always supposed to do. Be a meat shield for your tanks.

The plasma cannon setup has a good chance of outright destroying your tank.

 SeraphimXIX wrote:
The plasma cannon setup has a good chance of outright destroying your tank.

Na just use the reroll 1s to hit order


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Okay so with power level 11 that means any where from 210 to 230 points, but that includes 1/2 of the most expensive upgrades avaliable. So, the base cost for the LR will probably be 180 to 190 ish if i had to guess.

Base cost of the Russ is 120 iirc, BC is 24.

The re-roll 1s order is nice, but its on a per model basis.





I know that every big model hws to have incremental damage, but damn I wish they lost something other then bs when taking damage. Theyre already hitting on a 4+.

 SeraphimXIX wrote:
Russ weapon stats.

Spoiler:

not too bad, and not losing BS on the primary weapon is a nice boon.

SeraphimXIX wrote:The y-axis is percentage? The battlecannon is putting 0 wounds on a Russ nearly 60% of the time and on a riptide 55% of the time?

Yes. Sorry, I didn't realize I forgot to label that axis.

Commissar Benny wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Here we go:

Thanks for putting that together. If this data is correct, its still not very impressive. An LR exterminator is going to be putting out more wounds per round guaranteed every time. 8 shots at -1, d3 wounds.

You're welcome.

Unfortunately, I can't say the Autocannon is that much better.

Also, that's weird, are the siege tanks now command tanks and the line tanks not options for TC's any more?

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 Commissar Benny wrote:

 SeraphimXIX wrote:
Its only age of infantry for factions with vehicles, which is why it is kind if a slap in the face. Almost every tyranid MC got a buff AND a price reduction. Freakin strength 12 t7 26" threat-range carnifex are only ~80 points a pop. You can bet that all the MC heavy factions are going to be spamming their "vehicles".

It definitely is. If IG players thought bubble wrapping was bad in previous editions, 8th edition is going to be bubble wrap on steroids. We are finding out that almost every army will be able to assault turn 1. Now that vehicles can charge, we are going to see opponents just ram into our tanks to tie them up & prevent them from shooting. Worse yet, if your men are not spaced out properly, enemy infantry could potentially kill one squad, then move onto the next and the next & wipe out half your army in one turn.

8th edition is going to be all about infantry, especially if the rumors of 40 pt infantry squads are true.

Yeah your not going to lose half your army in one turn. 8th is not "all about infantry" they are try to put the soul back into the armies. Infantry armies are going to be infantry armies again. Nids will be about big bugs, Tau will be suit mastas, IG is and has always been about tanks. Your infantry will do the job it was always supposed to do. Be a meat shield for your tanks.

to a dgeree, thats true but obviously points balance is also gonna be important,

Looks like you can finally run a Tank Commander without chaining him to a squadron. Nice.

I like the Grinding Advance rule- moderates the Heavy weapon rule without completely taking it away.

Plasma cannon sponsons went from an expensive "maybe" to "why would you even think about it."

 SeraphimXIX wrote:
Russ weapon stats.

WOW. So they removed the exterminator autocannon's twin linked weapon. Unbelievable. I wonder if they are also going to remove the Vulture gunships twin linked punisher gatling cannons...

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
Yeah your not going to lose half your army in one turn. 8th is not "all about infantry" they are try to put the soul back into the armies. Infantry armies are going to be infantry armies again. Nids will be about big bugs, Tau will be suit mastas, IG is and has always been about tanks. Your infantry will do the job it was always supposed to do. Be a meat shield for your tanks.

Unless you have heard otherwise, if you are not spaced out properly a unit that wipes out a squad in assault can then move onto assault another squad within 3" if I am not mistaken.

Maybe the exterminator has two cannons.

 SeraphimXIX wrote:
Maybe the exterminator has two cannons.

Doubt it. They're linked together in the turret.

 SeraphimXIX wrote:
Maybe the exterminator has two cannons.

No, the Exterminator is just a turret with a pair of auto cannons. 4 shots total.

I hope tank commanders can be an upgrade to tanks as a way to give them bs3+. Other than that it's a bit disappointing. Tanks that take 6 wounds suddenly become next to harmless.

 Formerly Wu wrote:
Looks like you can finally run a Tank Commander without chaining him to a squadron. Nice.

I like the Grinding Advance rule- moderates the Heavy weapon rule without completely taking it away.

Plasma cannon sponsons went from an expensive "maybe" to "why would you even think about it."

Disagree, the super charge is very much a "Look, unless you're down to 1 wound left and really need to kill that big nasty bad, don't use this" but the standard non super charged shot'll be not a bad choice if you wanna rock a battle cannon and focus on mowing down armored infantry. iut's cost is gonna be the big question, but if it's reasonably costed, I could see it being a popular sponson choice in a MEQ heavy enviroment.

Canhammer on Instagram wrote:Vox-caster: If a friendly OFFICER is within 3" of a unit with a vox-caster when using the Voice of Command ability, you may extend the range of hte order to 18" if the target unit also contains a vox-caster.

This is awesome. Officers don't need to use the vox-caster in their command squad- as long as they can call over someone with a unit, they can get orders out.

Other tidbits: Baneblades can fire their sponsons even if enemy units are within 1", and can Fall Back, shoot, and then charge. Its WS is 5+ but its attacks are at AP -2 and do D3 damage.




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BrianDavion wrote:

Disagree, the super charge is very much a "Look, unless you're down to 1 wound left and really need to kill that big nasty bad, don't use this" but the standard non super charged shot'll be not a bad choice if you wanna rock a battle cannon and focus on mowing down armored infantry. iut's cost is gonna be the big question, but if it's reasonably costed, I could see it being a popular sponson choice in a MEQ heavy enviroment.

You're right, I forgot that you have the choice. Gonna take a while to get these old rules out of my head...

As a question related to tanks only by my stewing ire about Frag grenades having the same blast size as Battle Cannons now, will squads still be limited to throwing 1 grenade per squad? I hope not, and that would make having all the guardsmen throw frags a glorious thing.

Also, on the Baneblade, what's the stats on the Shadowsword Volcano Cannon?

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
As a question related to tanks only by my stewing ire about Frag grenades having the same blast size as Battle Cannons now, will squads still be limited to throwing 1 grenade per squad? I hope not, and that would make having all the guardsmen throw frags a glorious thing.

IIRC It's been confirmed somewhere that only 1 grenade per squad. which is proably a good thing, otherwise the "Kark grenade rush" would be a thing

Well, this is certainly killing my enthusiasm for 8th...

Veterans and Special Weapon Squads are Elites, and Heavy Weapons Squads are Heavy Support.

I wonder how platoon organization is supposed to work. As listed, filling out a Brigade is going to be easy work.


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 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Also, on the Baneblade, what's the stats on the Shadowsword Volcano Cannon?

Not listed- I would assume the Shadowsword has its own datasheet.

 Formerly Wu wrote:
Veterans and Special Weapon Squads are Elites, and Heavy Weapons Squads are Heavy Support.

I wonder how platoon organization is supposed to work. As listed, filling out a Brigade is going to be easy work.

If that is true, I expect there to be no more single slot platoon choice. Let's just hope that you can still get 50 man infantry squads, although a few 10 mans could make nice road blocks and fill out a brigade.

 Formerly Wu wrote:

Canhammer on Instagram wrote:Vox-caster: If a friendly OFFICER is within 3" of a unit with a vox-caster when using the Voice of Command ability, you may extend the range of hte order to 18" if the target unit also contains a vox-caster.

This is awesome. Officers don't need to use the vox-caster in their command squad- as long as they can call over someone with a unit, they can get orders out.

I might actually take vox-casters now...

BrianDavion wrote:

Disagree, the super charge is very much a "Look, unless you're down to 1 wound left and really need to kill that big nasty bad, don't use this" but the standard non super charged shot'll be not a bad choice if you wanna rock a battle cannon and focus on mowing down armored infantry. iut's cost is gonna be the big question, but if it's reasonably costed, I could see it being a popular sponson choice in a MEQ heavy enviroment.

You're right, I forgot that you have the choice. Gonna take a while to get these old rules out of my head...

Plasma overall seems to have done pretty well with the 1-fail now being a last resort option. If the Primaris example is any indicator the price of plasma has hiked to match this.


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 SeraphimXIX wrote:

 Humble Guardsman wrote:
1) You can't ignore every other faction when judging what to take. When you pick and choose IG units from the codex, you are picking and choosing with the enemy in mind. It's no mean advantage to be able to outnumber the armour of almost any foe you'll face. Most other lists are going to have to really scrimp and save to fit in an extra heavy vehicle or two. IG players can (much like IG commanders) chuck a Russ or two in without it hurting their points allowance much.

Outnumbering enemy armor is not inherently meaningful- the enemy can have 20 vehicles and I can have none, it doesnt matter. The only thing that matters is whether or not I can kill them, and you dont need armor to kill armor. To the contrary, everything weve seen so far is pointing to infantry being much more efficient at killing vehiclee then vehicles themselves.

Two mediocre-cheap tanks will generally do better against one good-expensive one, purely from weight of fire. We won't see Vehicles die quickly in this edition.

2) The Leman Russ itself stands up pretty well just looking at the rest of the codex. It's no 4pt guardsmen, but it's a durable slugger that is guaranteed to survive a couple more turns than it would in previous editions. The change to Armour Values alone fixes that. Vehicles as a whole got more durable, but for most of them it cost them a fair chunk of points.

Durability is meaningless without the damage to back it up. Just like in 7th, a good player will recognize how little damage a Russ does and ignore it until theres nothing else better to attack.

That's a fairly flimsy argument, banking on the opponents willingness to completely ignore you. The Leman Russ isn't that toothless. How many juicier targets are there in an IG army, the Vendetta?

8th ed may be the "Infantry Edition" of 40k (And my Horde IG are fine with that), but it's not like the Leman Russ got kicked in the teeth compared to 7th.

Unit viability is pass or fail, how good it is or isnt compared to previous editions doesnt mean anything if theyre still bad.

That's kind of shifting the goalposts. No one here is arguing that Leman Russ's are an auto-take (this edition so far seems pretty good at avoiding that to the best of its ability so far). I'm only saying that Leman Russes are better in 8th than they were in 7th.

so some guard leaks here. https://www.instagram.com/p/BUvgdMfA37S/

of note, Vets are elites now (honestly it makes sense, every other armies vetern squads are elites) that said I think IG players may not have to build basic guard squads in platoons anymore so that could free things up considerably


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 Formerly Wu wrote:
Veterans and Special Weapon Squads are Elites, and Heavy Weapons Squads are Heavy Support.

I wonder how platoon organization is supposed to work. As listed, filling out a Brigade is going to be easy work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Also, on the Baneblade, what's the stats on the Shadowsword Volcano Cannon?

Not listed- I would assume the Shadowsword has its own datasheet.

my gut feeling is platoons are gone. this could be a big advantage to guard players as getting tons of CPs likely won't be a problem

Am I missing something here? In the Astra Militarum reveal it specifically states heavy weapons teams were gaining the ability to provide cover fire for our army. They have no special rules that indicate such. They look almost identical to 7th edition.



I'm trying really hard not to get discouraged right now but nothing I have seen thus far is getting me excited for 8th except maybe rough riders...

Hmmm, while I'm going to hold my full criticism until I have all the rules and point values, this certainly doesn't inspire confidence or enthusiasm.

If Vets can't be made a troops option, I'll be fairly sour.

 Blacksails wrote:
Hmmm, while I'm going to hold my full criticism until I have all the rules and point values, this certainly doesn't inspire confidence or enthusiasm.

If Vets can't be made a troops option, I'll be fairly sour.

Not only that but from what people are saying vets cost 60 points per squad whereas a basic infantry squad costs 40. That is an extra 20 points for essentially +1 to BS. That is terrible. That 20 points could be put towards 50% of another infantry squad.

I want to know what people think of the new heavy weapons teams. They look identical to 7th edition. I'm trying really hard not to lose my right now but in the reveal it literally says they were gaining the ability to provide cover fire for our army. GW starts by saying that they aren't represented on the tabletop as they are in the fluff, then say that they will by being able to provide cover fire on the tabletop. Then, when you look at the rules they are practically a copy/paste from 7th.

Edit: Dead link.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
IG is and has always been about tanks. Your infantry will do the job it was always supposed to do. Be a meat shield for your tanks.

For you. For other's they have always been about wave upon wave of IG troopers.


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 Commissar Benny wrote:
Am I missing something here? In the Astra Militarum reveal it specifically states heavy weapons teams were gaining the ability to provide cover fire for our army. They have no special rules that indicate such. They look almost identical to 7th edition.



I'm trying really hard not to get discouraged right now but nothing I have seen thus far is getting me excited for 8th except maybe rough riders...

Covering fire means just that. They shoot while rest of army moves ahead. What special rule you were waiting?

Boost they get is from certain weapons getting boost and survivability boost they got.

 Trickstick wrote:
Cough.

Link wouldn't work. I'm assuming its more Guard stuff?