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He can revive unlucky plasma gunners if they didn't get an order to reroll those ones, which is...something, I suppose.

 ross-128 wrote:

Oh well, a minor loss. Not like the medic was ever worth his points before.

Speak for yourself, mine once kept an entire Command Section alive whilst they pounded a unit of LOTD into dust over the course of two game turns (four rounds of combat).

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Hey guys anyone else notice the hell hammer gets a lasgun in it's profile?

Is there something I'm missing here?

The Hellhammer's turret actually has 1 lonely lasgun sticking out of the back of it.

Just looking at rough riders, hunting lances can only be used on the turn they charged. The order "Fix Bayonets!" lets you attack again in melee, letting rough riders double lance if you have an officer within 6" since its still the same turn. Pretty nice counter charge unit.

 portugus wrote:
Just looking at rough riders, hunting lances can only be used on the turn they charged. The order "Fix Bayonets!" lets you attack again in melee, letting rough riders double lance if you have an officer within 6" since its still the same turn. Pretty nice counter charge unit.

Rough riders aren't infantry, I don't think they can get orders

 portugus wrote:
Just looking at rough riders, hunting lances can only be used on the turn they charged. The order "Fix Bayonets!" lets you attack again in melee, letting rough riders double lance if you have an officer within 6" since its still the same turn. Pretty nice counter charge unit.

Aren't orders only for infantry?

You're right, dang. They are still pretty good hitting on 4's and getting to outflank. Also they don't run out of lances if they survive the first combat.

What's everyone's take on the hunter killer missile? It's still one shot but it's price has dropped sharply and with d6 damage it could be interesting?

Useless Sidekick wrote:
What's everyone's take on the hunter killer missile? It's still one shot but it's price has dropped sharply and with d6 damage it could be interesting?

I personally don't see much need for it in my list, I already have 18 missile launchers that can accept orders. I have never really been a fan of one shot weapons with our BS. Sure, it's cheap if you just need a few points filled, and at that point see no reason not to take it. But our vehicles are survivable enough that on a Russ I would rather take a Heavy Stubber, and get a few turns out of it.

Am I right in thinking that the Valkyrie disembark rules allow a unit to move after they have disembark, thus circumventing the the 9" rule? I read that as the unit only have to set up outside of 9" once while disembarking, they can still move closer as part of their normal move.

 Humble Guardsman wrote:
Am I right in thinking that the Valkyrie disembark rules allow a unit to move after they have disembark, thus circumventing the the 9" rule? I read that as the unit only have to set up outside of 9" once while disembarking, they can still move closer as part of their normal move.

I'm not familiar with the disembark rules yet, are you allowed to move after disembarking? If so I read it the same way. I would think of it this way: they are not deep-striking, they just have a "worse" disembark rule then normal transports, that states that they must be setup within 3 of the vehicle and 1 inch away from any enemies. in this case it's just 9 instead of 1.

 Humble Guardsman wrote:
Am I right in thinking that the Valkyrie disembark rules allow a unit to move after they have disembark, thus circumventing the the 9" rule? I read that as the unit only have to set up outside of 9" once while disembarking, they can still move closer as part of their normal move.

Yeah, nothing stopping you.

In other news, the vendetta is alive!

Can we talk about how our russes are supercharged plasma "safe" vs marine and chaos marine vehicles with plasma weapons getting outright killed from an overheat?

Sure our armored sentinels will die while dreads and hell brutes take less mortal wounds from their versions(1 per overheat).

But while plasma cannon sponsons will take off half our wounds from 1 or more cannon overheats; they then cannot fire the cannons again. And with the change in to-wounds and biguns T; we shouldn't really have to supercharge most of the time(especially with loss of ID).

I see Death Korps units in these contents!!! I hope they're still flavorful and mean.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Can we talk about how our russes are supercharged plasma "safe" vs marine and chaos marine vehicles with plasma weapons getting outright killed from an overheat?

Sure our armored sentinels will die while dreads and hell brutes take less mortal wounds from their versions(1 per overheat).

But while plasma cannon sponsons will take off half our wounds from 1 or more cannon overheats; they then cannot fire the cannons again. And with the change in to-wounds and biguns T; we shouldn't really have to supercharge most of the time(especially with loss of ID).

You mean the plasma vents or using cmd points to re-roll?

Vents.

Chaos marine tanks have access to the combi-weapon list; one of thise is combi-plasma. Combi-plasma says see plasmagun. Plasmagun says roll of 1 is slain model.

Regular marine razorback can have twin plasma; again, slain model. Rhino primaris has a combi-plasma, slain model.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Can we talk about how our russes are supercharged plasma "safe" vs marine and chaos marine vehicles with plasma weapons getting outright killed from an overheat?

Sure our armored sentinels will die while dreads and hell brutes take less mortal wounds from their versions(1 per overheat).

But while plasma cannon sponsons will take off half our wounds from 1 or more cannon overheats; they then cannot fire the cannons again. And with the change in to-wounds and biguns T; we shouldn't really have to supercharge most of the time(especially with loss of ID).

Sure, but most of their units cheat. Only Chaos Rhinos with combi-plasma and Razorbacks with the lascannon + twin plasmagun set up are in danger of being insta-melted by their guns as far as I can tell. Other Space Marine vehicles get heavy plasma cannons which are exactly the same as plasma cannons, but they only take a mortal wound on overheat (but are more expensive because of it; 30pts), and the Chaos vehicles either get an overcharge only plasma cannon that only deals a mortal wound on a one (Hellbrute) or don't overheat at all (ectoplasma on Forgefiend).

EDIT: Yeah, forgot most Chaos can take combi-weapons, and didn't notice the primaris rhino. Good catches. (They are still mostly cheaters)

 SuspiciousSucculent wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Can we talk about how our russes are supercharged plasma "safe" vs marine and chaos marine vehicles with plasma weapons getting outright killed from an overheat?

Sure our armored sentinels will die while dreads and hell brutes take less mortal wounds from their versions(1 per overheat).

But while plasma cannon sponsons will take off half our wounds from 1 or more cannon overheats; they then cannot fire the cannons again. And with the change in to-wounds and biguns T; we shouldn't really have to supercharge most of the time(especially with loss of ID).

Sure, but most of their units cheat. Only Chaos Rhinos with combi-plasma and Razorbacks with the lascannon + twin plasmagun set up are in danger of being insta-melted by their guns as far as I can tell. Other Space Marine vehicles get heavy plasma cannons which are exactly the same as plasma cannons, but they only take a mortal wound on overheat (but are more expensive because of it; 30pts), and the Chaos vehicles either get an overcharge only plasma cannon that only deals a mortal wound on a one (Hellbrute) or don't overheat at all (ectoplasma on Forgefiend).

Haha yeah can't let the guard have something unique or somehow do things better then chaos.

Is it alright for me to start a discussion about Baneblades?

I can't decide if I love them or hate them. On one hand, they have a ton of Dakka and the Baneblade cannon is terrifying, imho - they also got about 35 points cheaper IIRC (unless you put sponsons on them). They're also actually not awful at close combat (weirdly) until they take a bunch of wounds.

However, they suffer from moving and shooting penalties with every single gun (even though every other superheavy so far can move and shoot just fine), they only have a 3+ save (which makes me feel bleh), and they are slower.

We can talk about the other Baneblade variants too, but as someone who runs Baneblade companies in the Heresy and saw the Super-Heavy Detachment I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the matter.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Is it alright for me to start a discussion about Baneblades?

I can't decide if I love them or hate them. On one hand, they have a ton of Dakka and the Baneblade cannon is terrifying, imho - they also got about 35 points cheaper IIRC (unless you put sponsons on them). They're also actually not awful at close combat (weirdly) until they take a bunch of wounds.

However, they suffer from moving and shooting penalties with every single gun (even though every other superheavy so far can move and shoot just fine), they only have a 3+ save (which makes me feel bleh), and they are slower.

We can talk about the other Baneblade variants too, but as someone who runs Baneblade companies in the Heresy and saw the Super-Heavy Detachment I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the matter.

Sure. I don't own one but wanted to for sooo long.

Dosen't the knights only have a 3+ save aswell?
Isen't the baneblade the only tank lord of war available (without forgeworld books)? I think all the others are walkers or MC of some kind, so that might be their justification for the minus from moving. It does seem like an oversight, and should warrent a bigger discount then 35 points.

FunJohn wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Is it alright for me to start a discussion about Baneblades?

I can't decide if I love them or hate them. On one hand, they have a ton of Dakka and the Baneblade cannon is terrifying, imho - they also got about 35 points cheaper IIRC (unless you put sponsons on them). They're also actually not awful at close combat (weirdly) until they take a bunch of wounds.

However, they suffer from moving and shooting penalties with every single gun (even though every other superheavy so far can move and shoot just fine), they only have a 3+ save (which makes me feel bleh), and they are slower.

We can talk about the other Baneblade variants too, but as someone who runs Baneblade companies in the Heresy and saw the Super-Heavy Detachment I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the matter.

Sure. I don't own one but wanted to for sooo long.

Dosen't the knights only have a 3+ save aswell?
Isen't the baneblade the only tank lord of war available (without forgeworld books)? I think all the others are walkers or MC of some kind, so that might be their justification for the minus from moving. It does seem like an oversight, and should warrent a bigger discount then 35 points.

I own 15 (well, 6 Baneblades, 6 Stormswords, and 3 Stormhammers; was a heresy superheavy cohort).

The toughness of the vehicles I'm only a bit concerned with - slightly tougher than 2 LRBTs is alright I guess.

What I am worried about is whether or not the weapons are hard-hitting enough to make up for the 5+ to hit if you move, or if Baneblades just became largely pillboxes.

Part of what I liked about them in the Heresy and 7th Edition was they felt like real tanks, capable of maneuvering at high speed while still engaging targets efficiently. It seems that's gone.

Hmm, I guess one way to deal with line of sight would be to model officers kneeling, ducking, or in some other pose that makes sure they're shorter than your infantry models. Then deploy your infantry squads in tight, staggered ranks in front of the officer to block line of sight to him, since they don't have to worry about templates anymore.

It'd be modeling for advantage a bit but if you put some variety into the poses you can avoid being too blatant about it.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
.......

However, they suffer from moving and shooting penalties with every single gun (even though every other superheavy so far can move and shoot just fine).

.........

I have seen a few people state this but I must be missing where it is in the new rules.

Is it somewhere other than the data sheet, or am I just overlooking it?

vert, it is because Heavy Weapons suffer a -1 penalty if fired after you've moved in the same turn. Most SuperHeavies get a rule on their datasheet negating that penalty.

Pedroig wrote:
vert, it is because Heavy Weapons suffer a -1 penalty if fired after you've moved in the same turn. Most SuperHeavies get a rule on their datasheet negating that penalty.

Oh ok, that seems obvious now. I keep forgetting they've done away with universal rules, I was looking for a special penalty.

It seems like an overarching theme for 8th ed guard, the vehicles are durable but they output mediocre damage. Durable vehicle are semi-useless, the enemy will simply ignore them.
Maybe we need to rely more on our artillery then tanks for damage.

FunJohn wrote:


It seems like an overarching theme for 8th ed guard, the vehicles are durable but they output mediocre damage. Durable vehicle are semi-useless, the enemy will simply ignore them.
Maybe we need to rely more on our artillery then tanks for damage.

I tend to agree, for the points artillery seems to outstrip the tanks in terms of damage output. Especially with a fairly cheap Master of Ordnance providing re-rolls for 1's.


However, tanks (and vehicles in general) can't be so easily ignored as they were in previous editions. Expensive units can still be tied up in close combat if destroying them outright seems implausible. They can move out of combat sure, but aside from a very few select abilities doing so renders them useless. In addition to tying up a mob or elite unit, it also protects other chargers from overwatch.

Perhaps Russes aren't worth the points if you're having to resort to that, but I foresee vehicles like the Taurox and Chimera at least charging into whatever target their attached Veteran/SWS melta/plas failed to kill in the shooting phase. I have to admit a Chimera driver gunning the accelerator into a carnifex to buy his comrades some time sounds pretty fething baller.

Useless Sidekick wrote:
What's everyone's take on the hunter killer missile? It's still one shot but it's price has dropped sharply and with d6 damage it could be interesting?

It's cheaper and it doesn't have anti-synergy with anti-infantry guns any more. For one, stuff like heavy bolters can wound vehicles more capably, so you can fire both weapons at the same target and not waste firepower. For another, you can split fire, so the HKs can go after armor and the light weapons can attack infantry, if you want.

 Humble Guardsman wrote:

FunJohn wrote:


It seems like an overarching theme for 8th ed guard, the vehicles are durable but they output mediocre damage. Durable vehicle are semi-useless, the enemy will simply ignore them.
Maybe we need to rely more on our artillery then tanks for damage.

I tend to agree, for the points artillery seems to outstrip the tanks in terms of damage output. Especially with a fairly cheap Master of Ordnance providing re-rolls for 1's.


However, tanks (and vehicles in general) can't be so easily ignored as they were in previous editions. Expensive units can still be tied up in close combat if destroying them outright seems implausible. They can move out of combat sure, but aside from a very few select abilities doing so renders them useless. In addition to tying up a mob or elite unit, it also protects other chargers from overwatch.

Perhaps Russes aren't worth the points if you're having to resort to that, but I foresee vehicles like the Taurox and Chimera at least charging into whatever target their attached Veteran/SWS melta/plas failed to kill in the shooting phase. I have to admit a Chimera driver gunning the accelerator into a carnifex to buy his comrades some time sounds pretty fething baller.

Speaking of the transports. The Chimera is 100 points with weapon options and its lost both the command ability and the ability for troops to short out of it. It really is just a transport now, which isent bad but seems a tad expensive. For the Taurox, dosent the missiler launcher seem overprised when you can take a Manticore for the same points? Sure it cant transport Scions, but they can deep strike anyway.

I suppose one interesting/oddball change is that the lasgun arrays "can only be used if a unit is embarked on the transport". It doesn't say anything about having enough models to man the lasguns, if there's "a unit" of any size in the Chimera, both lasgun arrays (all six lasguns) can fire. And with the loss of firing arcs, they can all fire at the same target.

The only unit I can think of that is both cheaper than six lasgun guardsmen and capable of boarding a Chimera though is an Astropath, and it's such a small thing that it's more of an amusing curiosity than anything actually useful.

I guess an Astropath psychically controlling six lasguns technically is legit though.