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I was going to question why a Primarus Pysker is a HQ choice when Platoon Commanders are only elites but then I remembered that they're a separate faction now.

And I'm disappointed by how poor Wyrdvanes seem to be. What they could have done is allow +1 to casting and denying rolls for every model over 5 in the unit. So a full sized unit of ten would cast on D6+5. Phrase it like this:

Choir Of Minds: This unit can only attempt to cast or deny powers on 1d6. However, for every model in the unit, you may add +1 to the result up to a maximum of +5.

Does that make sense? Is that fair? I'd rather have an expensive but useful unit rather than a cheap but useless one.

They definitely need something. As it stands there is really no reason to take them over the Primaris or the Astropath, both of which have their niche and are solid additions.

The other issue with them is that they can't hide like a character can either, and I'm pretty sure they can't cast out of a transport. Very soft, oddly ineffective, and competes against two models doing the same thing but better.

I'm putting together a small Guard army for the new edition, and given how well the Baneblade does up close I am going back and forth on how to build mine now.

So far I have:
* 6x (5man special weapons) Scion squads, a Scion command squad and Tempestor Prime. Taurox Prime.
*Company Command Squad and Commander
2x Chimera (HF)
6x Heavy Weapons Squad (12 mortars, 6 heavy bolters)
*2x LRBT w/ plasma sponsons
*3-4x Commissars/ Lord Commissars
*1xRough Riders (10)
5-6x Special Weapons Teams (Demo, Flamer, GL)
*Aegis Defense Line

*= assembled

I was planning on parking the cheap Heavy Weapons Teams and GL guys behind the Aegis line with the CCS and a commissar or two.
The Demo and Flamer guys ride in the Chimeras.
The LRBTs guard the flanks of the gunline and protect against heavy deep strikers.
The Scions deep strike to attack or seize objectives.
Fast attack slots will be initially fillled from Ultramarines or AdMech forces.

I was planning on building a Shadowsword from the Baneblade kit, with 4 lascannons and heavy bolters on the sponsons. It could sit back and shoot or it can charge into melee if necessary.

Any opinions on Shadowsword vs other variants for this role?

FunJohn wrote:


The main reason i took priests was for getting fearless bullgryns, which is what I ment. Priests does not make units fearless anymore, and bullgryns have a terrible LD.

Terrible LD? Equal to tactical squads and commisars ensure you lose max 1.

verticalgain wrote:

6x Heavy Weapons Squad (12 mortars, 6 heavy bolters)

12 mortars

Excellent. Needs more mortars though.

verticalgain wrote:
I'm putting together a small Guard army for the new edition, and given how well the Baneblade does up close I am going back and forth on how to build mine now.

So far I have:
* 6x (5man special weapons) Scion squads, a Scion command squad and Tempestor Prime. Taurox Prime.
*Company Command Squad and Commander
2x Chimera (HF)
6x Heavy Weapons Squad (12 mortars, 6 heavy bolters)
*2x LRBT w/ plasma sponsons
*3-4x Commissars/ Lord Commissars
*1xRough Riders (10)
5-6x Special Weapons Teams (Demo, Flamer, GL)
*Aegis Defense Line

*= assembled

I was planning on parking the cheap Heavy Weapons Teams and GL guys behind the Aegis line with the CCS and a commissar or two.
The Demo and Flamer guys ride in the Chimeras.
The LRBTs guard the flanks of the gunline and protect against heavy deep strikers.
The Scions deep strike to attack or seize objectives.
Fast attack slots will be initially fillled from Ultramarines or AdMech forces.

I was planning on building a Shadowsword from the Baneblade kit, with 4 lascannons and heavy bolters on the sponsons. It could sit back and shoot or it can charge into melee if necessary.

Any opinions on Shadowsword vs other variants for this role?

I prefer the traditional Baneblade, if you are piling on secondaries. Because:

- You lose: 1 volcano cannon

-you gain: - 1x baneblade cannon, 1x autocannon, 1x Demolisher cannon

Those secondaries are all more dice you can roll, and even the primary is more dice than the Shadowsword. If you are advancing it into melee (which you absolutely should as that is where the Baneblade is most comfortable), then having more gak to throw at the wall and have some stick will be important.

Heavy Flamers are also very important for this role and I would swap them for heavy bolters in a heartbeat.... but I like the classic look too much and don't care too much about competitiveness so I won't.

I am really tempted by the flamer hellhammer but it is 704 points! That is a fair bit. I would love to use the Stormsword if it had rules similar to 7th, where it was simply a 10" hellhammer cannon. I would imagine that would be a 3d6 blast, but I guess they didn't want to go crazy on the size of blasts because it would destroy single targets.

My Shadowsword is going to get a work out this edition I think. I might even want to get a Stormsword or a second Shadowsword!

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

verticalgain wrote:


Any opinions on Shadowsword vs other variants for this role?

I prefer the traditional Baneblade, if you are piling on secondaries. Because:

- You lose: 1 volcano cannon

-you gain: - 1x baneblade cannon, 1x autocannon, 1x Demolisher cannon

Those secondaries are all more dice you can roll, and even the primary is more dice than the Shadowsword. If you are advancing it into melee (which you absolutely should as that is where the Baneblade is most comfortable), then having more gak to throw at the wall and have some stick will be important.

Heavy Flamers are also very important for this role and I would swap them for heavy bolters in a heartbeat.... but I like the classic look too much and don't care too much about competitiveness so I won't.

Yeah I picked up the kit for the extra two turrets so it's getting 4 lascannons regardless.

With the rules for Adamantium Tracks it has me leaning towards the regular Baneblade over the Shadowsword now simply due to volume of fire. The tank is now a useful steamroller and if it's going in close anyway it negates the range issues on the demolisher cannon.

I keep going back and forth on heavy flamers vs heavy bolters. I like the idea of auto hitting, but 8 vs 36" of range is a big difference. For example, if I know my tracks are going to smash the orcs assaulting it, I could use the heavy bolters to shoot something else farther away.

Well I for one, being the reasonable man with humble aspirations, want both.

Hey guys, looking at the keyword system and the Kharadron Overlord's Code system...might we finally see doctrines return?

If not, I'm sure I could make one!

What do people think of the Stormlord and hiding most of your Heavy weapon Squads inside it? Worth it or too risky? Can commanders still give orders to units inside?

Are defense lines worth it for a conscript shield? With the cover and an Astropath buffing they have 3+ armor vs shooting and 4+ in melee. Seems solid for not too much investment.

Ratlings vs Vindicares. Vindicares seem to have more character killing power while ratlings have more shots and are able to screen your frontline better. Thoughts?

Khadorstompy wrote:
What do people think of the Stormlord and hiding most of your Heavy weapon Squads inside it? Worth it or too risky? Can commanders still give orders to units inside?

Are defense lines worth it for a conscript shield? With the cover and an Astropath buffing they have 3+ armor vs shooting and 4+ in melee. Seems solid for not too much investment.

Ratlings vs Vindicares. Vindicares seem to have more character killing power while ratlings have more shots and are able to screen your frontline better. Thoughts?

I also considered stuffing heavy or special weapons into a Stormlord but I don't think they are allowed to shoot out when it is in close combat?

Khadorstompy wrote:
What do people think of the Stormlord and hiding most of your Heavy weapon Squads inside it? Worth it or too risky? Can commanders still give orders to units inside?

Are defense lines worth it for a conscript shield? With the cover and an Astropath buffing they have 3+ armor vs shooting and 4+ in melee. Seems solid for not too much investment.

Ratlings vs Vindicares. Vindicares seem to have more character killing power while ratlings have more shots and are able to screen your frontline better. Thoughts?

Loading up HWS into a swordlord is fun & relatively effective, but you'll never win games doing it. In 7th orders could not be issued to units embarked in a transport. I would be surprised if they could in 8th. I own a Stormlord & the few times I have fielded it has done very well. That said, I will rarely ever get to use it this edition. For the cost of any of the baneblade variants, you can nearly field an entire brigade detachment.

Haven't analyzed ADL well enough to speak to that yet.

I'm leaning towards ratlings. For the cost of 1 vindicare you can field 1.5 squads of ratlings. Mortal wounds on 6's. Can shoot & move. You can also issue them orders like take aim, rerolling 1's. Meaning they basically have a 2+ to hit. Can't issue orders to Vindicare.

I think there is an argument for sticking with heavy bolters on the baneblade; besides being cheaper, and having more range, they actually don't discourage enemy charges like the flamers do. If the baneblade is better being stuck in combat, then it may be beneficial not to discourage, or evaporate, enemy charges (which 8 heavy flamers totally will).

verticalgain wrote:

Khadorstompy wrote:
What do people think of the Stormlord and hiding most of your Heavy weapon Squads inside it? Worth it or too risky? Can commanders still give orders to units inside?

Are defense lines worth it for a conscript shield? With the cover and an Astropath buffing they have 3+ armor vs shooting and 4+ in melee. Seems solid for not too much investment.

Ratlings vs Vindicares. Vindicares seem to have more character killing power while ratlings have more shots and are able to screen your frontline better. Thoughts?

I also considered stuffing heavy or special weapons into a Stormlord but I don't think they are allowed to shoot out when it is in close combat?

Hmm this is interesting. Upon reading carefully the Transport section it mentions that embarked units can't do anything or be effected in any way while embarked unless specifically stated. In addition the Stormlord can fire its weapons in close combat. I could see this being ruled many different ways. (Downside is there is certainly no way that you can issue orders to your units in the tank.)

 Otto von Bludd wrote:
I think there is an argument for sticking with heavy bolters on the baneblade; besides being cheaper, and having more range, they actually don't discourage enemy charges like the flamers do. If the baneblade is better being stuck in combat, then it may be beneficial not to discourage, or evaporate, enemy charges (which 8 heavy flamers totally will).

I don't know if you read my battle report or not, but even my "classic" Baneblades with 2 (not 4) sponsons and heavy bolters instead of flamers could vaporize a Dreadnought that charged it with all 8 wounds remaining and then Mephiston right after. So baneblades already have enough firepower to melt up to 10 wound units on the charge.

Flamers just make even Orc Hordes melt.

Also my Baneblades came out to only 574 points each iirc (checking now) so considerably cheaper than that Hellhammer.

 Commissar Benny wrote:
I'm leaning towards ratlings. For the cost of 1 vindicare you can field 1.5 squads of ratlings. Mortal wounds on 6's. Can shoot & move. You can also issue them orders like take aim, rerolling 1's. Meaning they basically have a 2+ to hit. Can't issue orders to Vindicare.

Alas, the ratlings lack the <Regiment> keyword and cannot be issued orders. I had the same clever idea. Thinking instead of using a pair of command squads, though it's far less efficient.

571, it turns out.

Will Ogryns be ven worth looking at?

I saw they changed quite a bit.

 drunken0elf wrote:
Will Ogryns be ven worth looking at?

I saw they changed quite a bit.

Yes, because death stars and instant death are gone.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Otto von Bludd wrote:
I think there is an argument for sticking with heavy bolters on the baneblade; besides being cheaper, and having more range, they actually don't discourage enemy charges like the flamers do. If the baneblade is better being stuck in combat, then it may be beneficial not to discourage, or evaporate, enemy charges (which 8 heavy flamers totally will).

I don't know if you read my battle report or not, but even my "classic" Baneblades with 2 (not 4) sponsons and heavy bolters instead of flamers could vaporize a Dreadnought that charged it with all 8 wounds remaining and then Mephiston right after. So baneblades already have enough firepower to melt up to 10 wound units on the charge.

Flamers just make even Orc Hordes melt.

Also my Baneblades came out to only 574 points each iirc (checking now) so considerably cheaper than that Hellhammer.

I did read it, that sounded amazing. I was thinking in terms of psychological impact though, when your opponent considers charging "8D6 of Heavy Flamers" or "a bunch of shots, but they only hit on 6!".

Trollsmyth wrote:

 Commissar Benny wrote:
I'm leaning towards ratlings. For the cost of 1 vindicare you can field 1.5 squads of ratlings. Mortal wounds on 6's. Can shoot & move. You can also issue them orders like take aim, rerolling 1's. Meaning they basically have a 2+ to hit. Can't issue orders to Vindicare.

Alas, the ratlings lack the <Regiment> keyword and cannot be issued orders. I had the same clever idea. Thinking instead of using a pair of command squads, though it's far less efficient.

Hmm, I'm hoping that is an oversight. It makes no sense that Ratlings/Ogryn would not be able to be issued orders. Ogryns take orders from commissars all the time. They too lack the regiment keyword.

 Future War Cultist wrote:


Does that make sense? Is that fair? I'd rather have an expensive but useful unit rather than a cheap but useless one.

Dunno if is fair but the chance to roll a 9+ is 27.7% with 2d6, and 50% on a full squad of those.
You will never roll 12.

 Commissar Benny wrote:

Khadorstompy wrote:
What do people think of the Stormlord and hiding most of your Heavy weapon Squads inside it? Worth it or too risky? Can commanders still give orders to units inside?

Are defense lines worth it for a conscript shield? With the cover and an Astropath buffing they have 3+ armor vs shooting and 4+ in melee. Seems solid for not too much investment.

Ratlings vs Vindicares. Vindicares seem to have more character killing power while ratlings have more shots and are able to screen your frontline better. Thoughts?

Loading up HWS into a swordlord is fun & relatively effective, but you'll never win games doing it. In 7th orders could not be issued to units embarked in a transport. I would be surprised if they could in 8th. I own a Stormlord & the few times I have fielded it has done very well. That said, I will rarely ever get to use it this edition. For the cost of any of the baneblade variants, you can nearly field an entire brigade detachment.

Haven't analyzed ADL well enough to speak to that yet.

I'm leaning towards ratlings. For the cost of 1 vindicare you can field 1.5 squads of ratlings. Mortal wounds on 6's. Can shoot & move. You can also issue them orders like take aim, rerolling 1's. Meaning they basically have a 2+ to hit. Can't issue orders to Vindicare.

The storm lord its one of the Cheaper Variants as far as I can tell Clocking in at ~450 with all weapons. And Loading it with 20 mortar teams is under 200 points. Now you can make the case that a wall of conscripts can screen just as well. for about half the cost by the time you include the obligatory characters. But be baneblade variant prevents them from being shot at quite handily.

Sadly you cannot issue orders to ratlings (Unless you name your regiment Militarum Axuliria and THAT I thinks will be clarified/errata'd shortly.) as they don't share regiment keyword.

 Commissar Benny wrote:

Trollsmyth wrote:

 Commissar Benny wrote:
I'm leaning towards ratlings. For the cost of 1 vindicare you can field 1.5 squads of ratlings. Mortal wounds on 6's. Can shoot & move. You can also issue them orders like take aim, rerolling 1's. Meaning they basically have a 2+ to hit. Can't issue orders to Vindicare.

Alas, the ratlings lack the <Regiment> keyword and cannot be issued orders. I had the same clever idea. Thinking instead of using a pair of command squads, though it's far less efficient.

Hmm, I'm hoping that is an oversight. It makes no sense that Ratlings/Ogryn would not be able to be issued orders. Ogryns take orders from commissars all the time. They too lack the regiment keyword.

Yeah, I'm kinda hoping the same thing but...

And it gets even weirder; you can issue orders to sentinels. Granted, keeping an officer close to them would be a real pain in the rear, but if they're running around your backfield being mobile fire support, it might maybe work?

Maybe actual guardmen are the ones trained to take the orders? Aren't sentinels crewed by guardsmen?

Trollsmyth wrote:

 Commissar Benny wrote:

Trollsmyth wrote:

 Commissar Benny wrote:
I'm leaning towards ratlings. For the cost of 1 vindicare you can field 1.5 squads of ratlings. Mortal wounds on 6's. Can shoot & move. You can also issue them orders like take aim, rerolling 1's. Meaning they basically have a 2+ to hit. Can't issue orders to Vindicare.

Alas, the ratlings lack the <Regiment> keyword and cannot be issued orders. I had the same clever idea. Thinking instead of using a pair of command squads, though it's far less efficient.

Hmm, I'm hoping that is an oversight. It makes no sense that Ratlings/Ogryn would not be able to be issued orders. Ogryns take orders from commissars all the time. They too lack the regiment keyword.

Yeah, I'm kinda hoping the same thing but...

And it gets even weirder; you can issue orders to sentinels. Granted, keeping an officer close to them would be a real pain in the rear, but if they're running around your backfield being mobile fire support, it might maybe work?

Orders can only be issued to units with the "INFANTRY" keyword.

It's in the rules for "Voice of Command".

It does make me wish we had a more generic 'Vehicle Commander', or at least grant the tank commander to issue tank orders to other vehicles.

I'd love for my sentinels and hellhounds to get some synergy with other vehicles.

At least arty gets the MoO for some minor re-rolling action.

Khadorstompy wrote:

The storm lord its one of the Cheaper Variants as far as I can tell Clocking in at ~450 with all weapons. And Loading it with 20 mortar teams is under 200 points. Now you can make the case that a wall of conscripts can screen just as well. for about half the cost by the time you include the obligatory characters. But be baneblade variant prevents them from being shot at quite handily.

Sadly you cannot issue orders to ratlings (Unless you name your regiment Militarum Axuliria and THAT I thinks will be clarified/errata'd shortly.) as they don't share regiment keyword.

Oh yes, 2 mortars in the back of a Stormlord sounds both hilarious and incredibly fun.