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I play Orkz. Just like any Ork, most of my interests in 40k are grab the models, dice, books and go find a table for a good fight. I know little about the entire story of 40k. New player I'm selling 40k to likes reading, some board games, fantasy video games, some action video games, some crafts, and the biggest problem with 40k is it's big complicated rules. I've been pushing the idea that the rules are going to get easier in 8th, and even include game modes that she will find easy to play. I really need some good reading to hook a reader into the background of the game. They have some models already (Chaos Marines), and has ideas for how they are to be painted (fan of Tzeentch's color scheme). I need background reading that sets up interest for Chaos Marine's in the storyline of 40k.

First 5 books of the Horus heresy, all of which are on the tube of you for audio.

The Eisenhorn and Ravens series are quite good for newcomers I think. They are good procedural action mysteries with compelling characters unlike a lot of the standard bullet porn titles in Black Library''s range.

Guants Ghost is also a great read for people new to the universe

Otherwise, the Old 2nd Ed rulebooks had great snippets and 1-2page stories

HH can be an engaging read...

It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries The Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the Master of Mankind by the will of the gods, and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium for whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day, so that he may never truly die.

Yet even in his deathless state, the Emperor continues his eternal vigilance. Mighty battlefleets cross the daemon-infested miasma of the Warp, the only route between distant stars, their way lit by the Astronomican, the psychic manifestation of the Emperor's will. Vast armies give battle in his name on uncounted worlds. Greatest amongst his soldiers are the Adeptus Astartes, the Space Marines, bio-engineered super-warriors. Their comrades in arms are legion: the Imperial Guard and countless planetary defence forces, the ever vigilant Inquisition and the tech-priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from aliens, heretics, mutants - and worse.

To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.


There you go, give him that.

Storm of Iron, by Graham McNeil. it's easily the best chaos marine story ever written

Storm of iron is one of best they ever did.

It even has everything from a single guardsman to a titan legion all playing a noticeble part.

 Arcsquad12 wrote:
It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries The Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the Master of Mankind by the will of the gods, and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium for whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day, so that he may never truly die.

Yet even in his deathless state, the Emperor continues his eternal vigilance. Mighty battlefleets cross the daemon-infested miasma of the Warp, the only route between distant stars, their way lit by the Astronomican, the psychic manifestation of the Emperor's will. Vast armies give battle in his name on uncounted worlds. Greatest amongst his soldiers are the Adeptus Astartes, the Space Marines, bio-engineered super-warriors. Their comrades in arms are legion: the Imperial Guard and countless planetary defence forces, the ever vigilant Inquisition and the tech-priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from aliens, heretics, mutants - and worse.

To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

Someone needs to engrave that quote into a 4x2 and bash the person who came up with the Numarine fluff over the head with it.

'Each Primaris Marine is the pinnacle of 10,000 years of science, experimentation, and distilled military knowledge'. Makes me sick.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

 Arcsquad12 wrote:
It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries The Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the Master of Mankind by the will of the gods, and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium for whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day, so that he may never truly die.

Yet even in his deathless state, the Emperor continues his eternal vigilance. Mighty battlefleets cross the daemon-infested miasma of the Warp, the only route between distant stars, their way lit by the Astronomican, the psychic manifestation of the Emperor's will. Vast armies give battle in his name on uncounted worlds. Greatest amongst his soldiers are the Adeptus Astartes, the Space Marines, bio-engineered super-warriors. Their comrades in arms are legion: the Imperial Guard and countless planetary defence forces, the ever vigilant Inquisition and the tech-priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from aliens, heretics, mutants - and worse.

To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

Someone needs to engrave that quote into a 4x2 and bash the person who came up with the Numarine fluff over the head with it.

'Each Primaris Marine is the pinnacle of 10,000 years of science, experimentation, and distilled military knowledge'. Makes me sick.

Lostech can't last forever, every setting that relies on "tech is rare and being lost" tends to inevitably move tech forward eventually.

 Arcsquad12 wrote:
It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries The Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the Master of Mankind by the will of the gods, and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium for whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day, so that he may never truly die.

Yet even in his deathless state, the Emperor continues his eternal vigilance. Mighty battlefleets cross the daemon-infested miasma of the Warp, the only route between distant stars, their way lit by the Astronomican, the psychic manifestation of the Emperor's will. Vast armies give battle in his name on uncounted worlds. Greatest amongst his soldiers are the Adeptus Astartes, the Space Marines, bio-engineered super-warriors. Their comrades in arms are legion: the Imperial Guard and countless planetary defence forces, the ever vigilant Inquisition and the tech-priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from aliens, heretics, mutants - and worse.

To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.


There you go, give him that.

Exalted dude. Best reply.

Edit: I'd probably just throw the fluff in the rulebook at him as well. It got me hooked way back when. You'd be surprised how far the stuff in codexes take you.

BrianDavion wrote:
Lostech can't last forever, every setting that relies on "tech is rare and being lost" tends to inevitably move tech forward eventually.

Perhaps, but there's ways of doing it that actually fit with the universe rather than blatantly ignoring the first words every single 40k rulebook has begun with since 3rd ed.

How's this for size?

Rather than 'Cawl's just up and made some new spangly marines which are bigger, and stronger, and more resistant to chaos, and don't afraid of anything', how about this idea:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After thousands upon thousands of fruitless exploratory missions into the treacherous caverns beneath Mars and Holy Terra, Cawl has finally completed his life's work, and the life's work of all his forebears stretching back to the fires of the Heresy.

Unearthing a relic of the God-Emperor's own construction, Cawl has resurrected powerful warriors not seen since Terra's distant past. Guilliman, in his desperation and dismay at the state of his father's Empire, has turned to Cawl's borderline heretical creations in a bid to stem Abaddon's tide of Chaos.

However, all is not well in the Imperium of Man. Fiery debates ring through in the halls of the Ecclessairchy, decrying these new warriors as a violation of the Holy Human Form. The beady eyes of the Inquisition pry into Cawl's priesthood, threatening to uncover their origins. Many Astartes chapters are also deeply suspicious, threatening a rift within the Imperium not seen since Horus drew breath.

However, beneath the masking of propaganda and bureaucracy, one thing is true. Thunder Warriors step foot on Terran soil once again.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh, hey look. A fluff background that's better than the official one. Only took me, what, 3 hours to think up.

Here's a list of benefits of this short background over the official Noblebrightness:

1. It doesn't gak on some of the most established tropes in the 40k universe, such the technology of the past being superior, while still introducing something new to 40k.
2. It sets up conflict within the Imperium of Man much more strongly, which both suggests more opportunity for inter-human narratives, and also reduces the noblebrightness to levels that actually feel like they fit the 40k bokeh.
3. It doesn't instantly invalidate Astartes as the heroes of the Imperium. These Numarines are something else entirely. They may evolve into heroes rivalling the Marines, which would introduce some interesting conflicts later on, but for now they're untested and could have lord knows what flaws.
4. Being untested, it lets the players have fun actually bringing some of their own ideas to what these Numarines should be like.
5. If people want to make noblebright Numarines they still can. Perhaps the Thunder Warriors weren't as psychopathic as the legends suggest, and are just fighting for the survival of humanity jst like everyone else.
6. What do you think these new warriors are going to think when a few find out they're Thunder Warriors? What do you think they're going to think when they find out the Emperor they're fighting and dying for wiped them out in favour of the Astartes? Yet more narrative opportunity.

Really, it was a poor choice of quote on my part. It wasn't necessarily the 'lost tech' aspect I was trying to highlight, but the air of valiant struggle against hopeless odds.

I think people struggle with how to make something feel 'epic'. 'Epic' is not 'these guys are sooo strong and sooo tough that no-one can ever hurt them and they wade through seas of enemies killing all of them without a scratch'. That's boring.

'Epic' is the bravery of a last stand against insurmountable odds. The fact that despite lovecraftian gods slavering after their souls, xenos butchering whole systems simply for pleasure, and half of their empire turning traitor, humanity still stands. Not through the crutch of technology, but through sheer human grit. In the grand scheme of things, Astartes are far from the toughest warriors in the galaxy. At the end of the day, compared to Greater Daemons and eldritch Wraith Constructs and Lord knows what else is out there, they're just as human as a Guardsman. And, like Guardsmen, day-in-day-out, despite the monstrosities they face, they hold the line.

That is epic.

Numarines are not epic, and it worries me about the general feel of the 40k fluff. 40k does well, in part, because it feels really cool. If the writers steadily start chipping away at stuff that feels cool, and replacing it with stuff that on the face of it seems cool but actually leaves you feeling like it's a bit naff, sooner or later you'll just end up with a naff background.

Hang on, what was the exam question again?

I don't want to be disrespectfull Ynneadwraith but you're getting pretty far off topic. We have a Numarines thread right? I havn't had much intrest in it personally because I intend to make my judgment once I have the Numarines codex in hand. Your idea to have them be thunder warriors is a cool one, though I'd probably lean towards a thunder warrior/Custodes/primarch gene code template hybrid. But as I said, if you want to discuss it I'd suggest making a new thread.

I know you joke about it at the end of the post and I don't want to be an ass but it's quite the wall of text about something very diffrent from the main topic. Good ideas though.

No disrespect felt looking at it I was straying quite a ways off-topic! Just got into a bit of a rant :S

As for getting someone into the background of 40k, I'd suggest some of the 5th edition codices. You can pick them up quite cheaply from eBay, and it's around then that there was a bit of a development of depth to a lot of the factions.

Compare the 5th ed. codices to the 7th ed. ones and there's a lot less fluff in the newer ones.

I'd consider having him pick up or read some old codices. See if that interests him at all.

I cannot emphasize how much the Eisenhorn trilogy is a great introduction to the grim dark 40k universe. I'd say have him start out with those and then move to the first five Horus Heresy books.

GodDamUser wrote:
Guants Ghost is also a great read for people new to the universe.

This. It captures the vibe of the setting while maintaining its realism. Ciaphas Cain is also an option if your friend is after some lighter-hearted reading. I would not recommend anything based on a Xenos or Space Marine POV, it's hard to easily relate to the characters in those, especially for someone new to the setting.

If they are an avid reader like you say, recommending them a book or two is definitely the best way to start.

I think novels are very deep but not so broad.

The fluff sections in some of the old BRBs, codexes and white dwarfs from like 20 years ago which is what got me into 40k's setting. Novels only interested me much later, when I was already immersed in 40k fluff.

Obviously things change, but I suggest going for breadth first and then depth.

I am new to 40k and the hook that got me was Aaron Dembski-Bowden's Night Lords trilogy. Truth is I didn't read book 1, but Blood Reaver and Void Stalker have made me a dedicated member of the VIII Legion!