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Honestly if you don't want to do much investing in your Battalion you might as well go Infantry. I know you probably don't want to hear that.

 Drinkgasoline wrote:


A few thoughts (and reasons for optimism):

yay! optimism is what we need we are the last defence against the daemons menace and looks like things are not looking grate for the mankind after CA

 Drinkgasoline wrote:


- We need to utilise, as a soup army, things that synergise

Besides of CP farm in your opinion which other things synergise well with GK ?

 Drinkgasoline wrote:


- Ignore LOS: where in competitive play, LOS block is becoming a massive, massive factor and the ability to send 18 NDKGM shots at a unit of hiding reapers, spears, aggressors or whatever, is HUGE

I guess that another option would be if you have a stormraven another option would be to make the NDKGM has astral aim and the SS cast on him sanctuary and GI. Then move the stormraven where the NDKGM is and cast astral aim to the stormraven meanwhile giving re-rolls of 1. If the storm raven is in rapid fire range it could potentially have more firepower than the NDKGM. Then next turn they will have to deal with a stormraven and a 2++ NDKGM. Also the stormraven can be use to block possible counter charge from knights or other non flyers units.

But what do I know. I could probably be wrong and misleading you. But in the other hand there is not a lot of us, GK players, left out there to discuss about GK tactics anyway.

Yeah that's a nice point and Stormravens got a nice drop in points. They are also more viable going second thanks to prepared positions BUT at 300+ points I think they're still a little too pricy.

 Drinkgasoline wrote:


Now, I appreciate that many players here aren't interested in competitive 40k whatsoever or tournaments and I appreciate that and apologise for the lengthy post. However, there are not many places where one can discuss GK tactics with others so I have ended up here

Thanks. I actually found your post very insightful.

 Drinkgasoline wrote:
A few thoughts (and reasons for optimism):...
/quote]

Thank you, these kind of posts are what tactics threads should be filled with, I now have much more clear idea about how to make gk work, and how ca affected them.

Other potential synergistic detachments are those which provide a strong backfield or got points drops in CA.

So I would consider AM battalions with Tank Commanders and Mortars or the new Sisters with lots of Transport Vehicles.

I apologize this early question but what are the best Grey Knights units now?

BillyN831 wrote:
I apologize this early question but what are the best Grey Knights units now?

Still the same, but Paladins got cheaper I think so they're more attractive at least.

BillyN831 wrote:
I apologize this early question but what are the best Grey Knights units now?

NDKGM
Interceptors
Dreadnoughts
Venerable Dreadnoughts

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

BillyN831 wrote:
I apologize this early question but what are the best Grey Knights units now?

NDKGM
Interceptors
Dreadnoughts
Venerable Dreadnoughts

All dreadnoughts for everyone kind of suck, unfortunately (except for CSM Leviathans with Butcher Cannons).

I'd say for GK it's:

Draigo
GMDK
Strikes

Just spam both as much as you can if going GK. If you want to do really good though, replace your GK with Custodes.

Was actually going to try something similar, but with guard.

Gk
2x gmndk, sword, Cannon, psilencer
3x strike squad

Imperial knight krast
Crusader - thermal Cannon, headsmen mark, bulwark
2x warglaive

Guard - cadian
Tank commanders - plasma executioner, plasma cannons
Company cmdr

3x troops with lascannon teams.

Has a bit more heavy firepower in the tank commander, typically firing 11 plasma and 3 heavy bolter, more than the two dreadnoughts, but I lose the skitarii synergy with the knights.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

BillyN831 wrote:
I apologize this early question but what are the best Grey Knights units now?

NDKGM
Interceptors
Dreadnoughts
Venerable Dreadnoughts

Dreadnoughts are better now... But so much more out there still does more damage output in shooting for points. I would answer, what is good? GMNDK, and in limited quantity since they have diminishing returns past the first one. 2 could be okay.

strike squad/interceptors are good at clearing horde units, but again... So much other stuff does that role better.

At least interceptors can hunt backline units.

Draigo and voldus have their places too.

Audustum wrote:

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

BillyN831 wrote:
I apologize this early question but what are the best Grey Knights units now?

NDKGM
Interceptors
Dreadnoughts
Venerable Dreadnoughts

All dreadnoughts for everyone kind of suck, unfortunately (except for CSM Leviathans with Butcher Cannons).

I'd say for GK it's:

Draigo
GMDK
Strikes

Just spam both as much as you can if going GK. If you want to do really good though, replace your GK with Custodes.

At 101pts they're dead cheap now though and worth it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Smotejob wrote:
Was actually going to try something similar, but with guard.

Gk
2x gmndk, sword, Cannon, psilencer
3x strike squad

Imperial knight krast
Crusader - thermal Cannon, headsmen mark, bulwark
2x warglaive

Guard - cadian
Tank commanders - plasma executioner, plasma cannons
Company cmdr

3x troops with lascannon teams.

Has a bit more heavy firepower in the tank commander, typically firing 11 plasma and 3 heavy bolter, more than the two dreadnoughts, but I lose the skitarii synergy with the knights.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

BillyN831 wrote:
I apologize this early question but what are the best Grey Knights units now?

NDKGM
Interceptors
Dreadnoughts
Venerable Dreadnoughts

Dreadnoughts are better now... But so much more out there still does more damage output in shooting for points. I would answer, what is good? GMNDK, and in limited quantity since they have diminishing returns past the first one. 2 could be okay.

strike squad/interceptors are good at clearing horde units, but again... So much other stuff does that role better.

At least interceptors can hunt backline units.

Draigo and voldus have their places too.

Yeah this is a good build, let us know how you get on. Tank commanders are still great and got a points drop so great tool to utilise.

 Drinkgasoline wrote:
Other potential synergistic detachments are those which provide a strong backfield or got points drops in CA.

So I would consider AM battalions with Tank Commanders and Mortars or the new Sisters with lots of Transport Vehicles.

Then I still see the strike marines as a waste of points. They are more a point fillers for CP. so the warglaives are. If I see it in terms of efficiency probably I would o for an AM brigade, a IK super heavy auxiliary and a GK supreme commander:

Company commander x2
Tank Commander
Infantry Squad x6
Scout sentinels x3
Mortar teams x3

Crusader

NDKGM
NDKGM
Draigo
Ven dread LC ML

And the ven dread would be place here not only for the astral aim but mostly to make the supreme command detachment the expensive and hence tag the army as GK. Also from the AM centric point of view it could be desirable have GK as they provide one of the best psychic defence (aegis strat and +1 to Denny the witch) and is not to waste points in a unit that only works against psyckers (e.g. culexus). NDKGM are also heavy hitters.

In this case you can deploy Draigo and NDKGM. Draigo with AIM and GI and the NDKGM with sanctuary or something like that.

But reach that point I realise that actually the soup composition for GK haven't changed at all from pre CA. Maybe now is more point wise efficient. Maybe my vision is too narrow?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
just forget 3 commissars for the AM brigade elite.

psipso wrote:

 Drinkgasoline wrote:
Other potential synergistic detachments are those which provide a strong backfield or got points drops in CA.

So I would consider AM battalions with Tank Commanders and Mortars or the new Sisters with lots of Transport Vehicles.

Then I still see the strike marines as a waste of points. They are more a point fillers for CP. so the warglaives are. If I see it in terms of efficiency probably I would o for an AM brigade, a IK super heavy auxiliary and a GK supreme commander:

Company commander x2
Tank Commander
Infantry Squad x6
Scout sentinels x3
Mortar teams x3

Crusader

NDKGM
NDKGM
Draigo
Ven dread LC ML

And the ven dread would be place here not only for the astral aim but mostly to make the supreme command detachment the expensive and hence tag the army as GK. Also from the AM centric point of view it could be desirable have GK as they provide one of the best psychic defence (aegis strat and +1 to Denny the witch) and is not to waste points in a unit that only works against psyckers (e.g. culexus). NDKGM are also heavy hitters.

In this case you can deploy Draigo and NDKGM. Draigo with AIM and GI and the NDKGM with sanctuary or something like that.

But reach that point I realise that actually the soup composition for GK haven't changed at all from pre CA. Maybe now is more point wise efficient. Maybe my vision is too narrow?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
just forget 3 commissars for the AM brigade elite.

Unfortunately mate you're sort of correct about the strikes... they're alright with 20 shots but for the points they suck. But they do give the extra CP, powers and turn two chaff clearance.

I would say from my experience the warglaives aren't point fillers. 162pts for what they add plus an extra CP for each one is decent. They're incredibly fast and provide threat overload especially when the opponent has a 2++ NDKGM in their face.

I do think your argument is slightly flawed as you present an AM brigade list where pretty much 25% of the army is filler (also not sure whether your list actually fits into 2k - I may be wrong).

Draigo has no purpose in that list. What does he add? A 180pt brick that isn't active until turn 3 even. This won't be a popular comment in this thread but Draigo at 180pts still isn't great unless you're taking 30+ marine bodies deepstriking and even then I would consider leaving him out. He doesn't add any offense until he's in combat which simply won't happen since your delivery puts him 9" from chaff turn two.

You want to be getting efficiency out of each unit if possible, or you want it to be dirt cheap. In my list I would agree with you the main flaw is the 3 overpriced strike squads but they still add 60 shots which in the age of Orks isn't terrible.

Having said all that I think an AM brigade + GKs can work... I would consider running a Catachan brigade with priests and Straken and your list is a good start but I wouldn't use Draigo. Maybe take a cheap techmarine...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way, I ran this version of the list yesterday and I'm liking it more than my previous iteration:

GK Battalion
NDKGM
NDKGM
Strikes - Psilencer
Strikes - Psilencer
Strikes - Psilencer
Ven Dread - LC, ML

AdMech Battalion
Techpriest
Techpriest
Rangers
Rangers
Rangers

Krast SH
Crusader - Battle Cannon, Stormspear
Warglaive
Warglaive


I liked the single Ven Dread with the astral aim and re-rolling 1s to hit whilst sitting behind a ruin. You guys were right about the plasma cannons they're cheap now but damage output is minimal.

I went first AGAIN against Knights/AM/Custodes and baited a rotate ion shields on his gallant allowing the crusader to remove his crusader so not much tactical insight to give you other than this.

The stormspear was decent and battle cannon I liked but what I DON'T like is making the knight almost as expensive as a Castellan :(

I don't know what else I would spend the 70ish points on though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another list to try would be:

GK Battalion
NDKGM
NDKGM
15 Strikes

AM Battalion
Pask Executioner, Plasma Sponsons
2 Tank Commanders Executioners, Plasma Sponsons
30 Infantry

Krast Crusader

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

Draigo has no purpose in that list. What does he add? A 180pt brick that isn't active until turn 3 even. This won't be a popular comment in this thread but Draigo at 180pts still isn't great unless you're taking 30+ marine bodies deepstriking and even then I would consider leaving him out. He doesn't add any offense until he's in combat which simply won't happen since your delivery puts him 9" from chaff turn two.

You are right. Specially on this list on almost everybody are GM and are already re-rolling 1's by themself and so Draigo's aura is sink of points. I was thinking that to pull the strategy to GI a 2++ astral aim NDKGM at turn 1 you need to deploy "2 casters". For a supreme command detachment it will be desirable a GK HQ that knows and can cast at least 2 powers. It can only recall Draigo, Voldus and Libby in order to be able to do that. So i was thinking the following:

Turn 1), deploy NDKGM along with Draigo, Draigo cast AI and GI in NDKGM. NDKGM cast sanctuary on himself and shoot at something.

Turn 2), Deep strike second NDKGM which would be the warloard with First to the Fray. Then GI Draigo at the side of the second NDKGM. Cast AI in second NDKGM which probably will be not as bracket as the first one. Then potentially charge both with NDKGM and draigo for a double chance that at least a beaststeak make it to the combat. Also as draigo is already 3++ sanctuary can be casted to the second (or first?) NDKGM. With the stratagem there is the option to have the 3 HQ at 3++.

I used to use Draigo in this way but I was also bringing interceptors to clear chaff. I guess that if you bring an AM brigade with 3 teams of mortars you can also have a decent chance to locally clear some screen to pull the same strategy. Althought that I'm agree that with a ork horde would be a bit short.

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

BillyN831 wrote:
I apologize this early question but what are the best Grey Knights units now?

NDKGM
Interceptors
Dreadnoughts
Venerable Dreadnoughts

All dreadnoughts for everyone kind of suck, unfortunately (except for CSM Leviathans with Butcher Cannons).

I'd say for GK it's:

Draigo
GMDK
Strikes

Just spam both as much as you can if going GK. If you want to do really good though, replace your GK with Custodes.

At 101pts they're dead cheap now though and worth it.

101 isn't cheap enough for how little damage they do, unfortunately. 4 more points gets you a Strike Squad too, which I'd consider app around better.

Audustum wrote:

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

BillyN831 wrote:
I apologize this early question but what are the best Grey Knights units now?

NDKGM
Interceptors
Dreadnoughts
Venerable Dreadnoughts

All dreadnoughts for everyone kind of suck, unfortunately (except for CSM Leviathans with Butcher Cannons).

I'd say for GK it's:

Draigo
GMDK
Strikes

Just spam both as much as you can if going GK. If you want to do really good though, replace your GK with Custodes.

At 101pts they're dead cheap now though and worth it.

101 isn't cheap enough for how little damage they do, unfortunately. 4 more points gets you a Strike Squad too, which I'd consider app around better.

Yeah I agree but a dread with LC and ML is decent, venerable with ignore LOS even moreso. You use astral aim then pop the re-roll1s strat and you have 3 shots hitting on 2s re-rolling 1s, D6 damage each, at 48" range, from behind LOS, ignoring cover

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

BillyN831 wrote:
I apologize this early question but what are the best Grey Knights units now?

NDKGM
Interceptors
Dreadnoughts
Venerable Dreadnoughts

All dreadnoughts for everyone kind of suck, unfortunately (except for CSM Leviathans with Butcher Cannons).

I'd say for GK it's:

Draigo
GMDK
Strikes

Just spam both as much as you can if going GK. If you want to do really good though, replace your GK with Custodes.

At 101pts they're dead cheap now though and worth it.

101 isn't cheap enough for how little damage they do, unfortunately. 4 more points gets you a Strike Squad too, which I'd consider app around better.

Yeah I agree but a dread with LC and ML is decent, venerable with ignore LOS even moreso. You use astral aim then pop the re-roll1s strat and you have 3 shots hitting on 2s re-rolling 1s, D6 damage each, at 48" range, from behind LOS, ignoring cover

I know the strat. It's just not worth the investment. You're relying on a power for only 3 shots. You fire those at a Knight Castellan and probably none of them effect him (3+ to wound, 3++).

Really dejected to see that ‘GK’ lists are basically a minority of GK and majority of other factions.

Audustum wrote:

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

BillyN831 wrote:
I apologize this early question but what are the best Grey Knights units now?

NDKGM
Interceptors
Dreadnoughts
Venerable Dreadnoughts

All dreadnoughts for everyone kind of suck, unfortunately (except for CSM Leviathans with Butcher Cannons).

I'd say for GK it's:

Draigo
GMDK
Strikes

Just spam both as much as you can if going GK. If you want to do really good though, replace your GK with Custodes.

At 101pts they're dead cheap now though and worth it.

101 isn't cheap enough for how little damage they do, unfortunately. 4 more points gets you a Strike Squad too, which I'd consider app around better.

Yeah I agree but a dread with LC and ML is decent, venerable with ignore LOS even moreso. You use astral aim then pop the re-roll1s strat and you have 3 shots hitting on 2s re-rolling 1s, D6 damage each, at 48" range, from behind LOS, ignoring cover

I know the strat. It's just not worth the investment. You're relying on a power for only 3 shots. You fire those at a Knight Castellan and probably none of them effect him (3+ to wound, 3++).

Only chance against a castellan knight is to get GMDK into CC with it. Which aint gonna happen. You bring the Dreads to kill the other vehicles in the list and you ignore the castellan. Or you pop a mortar team on an objective - it's almost an automatic kill on them.

chnmmr wrote:
Really dejected to see that ‘GK’ lists are basically a minority of GK and majority of other factions.

Yup. How to grey knight? Bring dread knights and guardsmen. Be sure to slaughter your guardsmen after each fight.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

BillyN831 wrote:
I apologize this early question but what are the best Grey Knights units now?

NDKGM
Interceptors
Dreadnoughts
Venerable Dreadnoughts

All dreadnoughts for everyone kind of suck, unfortunately (except for CSM Leviathans with Butcher Cannons).

I'd say for GK it's:

Draigo
GMDK
Strikes

Just spam both as much as you can if going GK. If you want to do really good though, replace your GK with Custodes.

At 101pts they're dead cheap now though and worth it.

101 isn't cheap enough for how little damage they do, unfortunately. 4 more points gets you a Strike Squad too, which I'd consider app around better.

Yeah I agree but a dread with LC and ML is decent, venerable with ignore LOS even moreso. You use astral aim then pop the re-roll1s strat and you have 3 shots hitting on 2s re-rolling 1s, D6 damage each, at 48" range, from behind LOS, ignoring cover

I know the strat. It's just not worth the investment. You're relying on a power for only 3 shots. You fire those at a Knight Castellan and probably none of them effect him (3+ to wound, 3++).

Only chance against a castellan knight is to get GMDK into CC with it. Which aint gonna happen. You bring the Dreads to kill the other vehicles in the list and you ignore the castellan. Or you pop a mortar team on an objective - it's almost an automatic kill on them.

Ignoring a Castellan for 6 rounds probably isn't really viable. That said, even if you shot the Dread at a Helverin's profile you're only averaging 4.55 wounds per round. The Helverin responds with an average 4.00 wounds back on the Dread. Even abusing Astral Aim, the fact that the Helverin has 14" Move and 60" range means he's probably shooting you when you can't really shoot him (unless you're in a mid-field Ruin or something and thus exposing yourself to assault).

Conversely, a Strike Squad in Rapid Fire range averages almost as much damage (2.96) and can follow it up with a charge for much more (also negates some of the Helverin's range advantage because they can Deep Strike). Factor in Objective Secured and unlocking further Battalion/Brigade detachments for CP, I think the points of the Dread are probably better spend on more Strikes. It's not even a huge wound difference (5 compared to 8).

Audustum wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

BillyN831 wrote:
I apologize this early question but what are the best Grey Knights units now?

NDKGM
Interceptors
Dreadnoughts
Venerable Dreadnoughts

All dreadnoughts for everyone kind of suck, unfortunately (except for CSM Leviathans with Butcher Cannons).

I'd say for GK it's:

Draigo
GMDK
Strikes

Just spam both as much as you can if going GK. If you want to do really good though, replace your GK with Custodes.

At 101pts they're dead cheap now though and worth it.

101 isn't cheap enough for how little damage they do, unfortunately. 4 more points gets you a Strike Squad too, which I'd consider app around better.

Yeah I agree but a dread with LC and ML is decent, venerable with ignore LOS even moreso. You use astral aim then pop the re-roll1s strat and you have 3 shots hitting on 2s re-rolling 1s, D6 damage each, at 48" range, from behind LOS, ignoring cover

I know the strat. It's just not worth the investment. You're relying on a power for only 3 shots. You fire those at a Knight Castellan and probably none of them effect him (3+ to wound, 3++).

Only chance against a castellan knight is to get GMDK into CC with it. Which aint gonna happen. You bring the Dreads to kill the other vehicles in the list and you ignore the castellan. Or you pop a mortar team on an objective - it's almost an automatic kill on them.

Ignoring a Castellan for 6 rounds probably isn't really viable. That said, even if you shot the Dread at a Helverin's profile you're only averaging 4.55 wounds per round. The Helverin responds with an average 4.00 wounds back on the Dread. Even abusing Astral Aim, the fact that the Helverin has 14" Move and 60" range means he's probably shooting you when you can't really shoot him (unless you're in a mid-field Ruin or something and thus exposing yourself to assault).

Conversely, a Strike Squad in Rapid Fire range averages almost as much damage (2.96) and can follow it up with a charge for much more (also negates some of the Helverin's range advantage because they can Deep Strike). Factor in Objective Secured and unlocking further Battalion/Brigade detachments for CP, I think the points of the Dread are probably better spend on more Strikes. It's not even a huge wound difference (5 compared to 8).

This is massively flawed logic. You don't bring the dread to shoot at a Castellan, he takes down other vehicles very effectively from out of LOS (Tank Commanders, Ravagers) etc. He's even worth taking to ping off 2-3 Shining Spears per turn who are inevitably hiding behind LOS block terrain. He is also a source of astral aim for the NDKGM for the turn one 2++ and jump up. Your comparisons are off and don't make sense. What do 5 extra Strikes provide against a Tank Commander or a Wave Serpent? Or even an Alaitoc Flyer?

And your hope of a charge is ridiculous as you're relying on that 9" which we know very rarely happens. Strike squads can also be bubbled out very easily. They are for killing chaff and that's it. Even on a charge they don't do a massive amount of damage. 11 attacks against the Helverin you pose as an example, 7 hits, 2 wounds, one save probably made and wow you've done a whole D3 damage.

The 3++ Castellan is a problem for pretty much ALL lists to deal with unless you're running Eldar and the opponent somehow leaves him in range of both doom, jinx OR allows you to charge it with Shining Spears.

When faced with a Castellan and other knights try to bait out the rotate on another knight then shoot the Castellan with the Krast Crusader. If they only have the single Castellan then deploy out of 58" with your Crusader if possible meaning only the Volcano Lance can shoot you or you ignore him for the first turn whilst you remove other pieces of their army. Or just shoot the Krast Knight and everything else at the Castellan to do 12-15 wounds or so to it. By turn 2 these lists usually have spent most of their CP; with rotate being 3CP and Raven strat being 3CP etc. etc.

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

And your hope of a charge is ridiculous as you're relying on that 9" which we know very rarely happens. Strike squads can also be bubbled out very easily. They are for killing chaff and that's it. Even on a charge they don't do a massive amount of damage. 11 attacks against the Helverin you pose as an example, 7 hits, 2 wounds, one save probably made and wow you've done a whole D3 damage.

For sure all of you already know it but just to give some context to help on the discussion or to help whoever comes here and still don't know it.

A) Chance of a 9" charge: 27.777777777777773 %
B) Chance of a 9" charge assuming that it will be used a command point to re-rolla a dice if the some of the 2 dices is equal or higher than 3: 52.30264%
C) Change of a 9" charge assuming to be in range of First to the fray and hence been able to re-roll both dices: 47.8395061728395 %
D) Chance that if 2 GK units are at from a target at least one can make a 9" charge: 47.8395061728395 %
E) Chance that if 2 GK units are at from a target at least one can make a 9" charge assuming that one will be able to use (B): 77.2496184903 %
F) Chance that if 2 GK units are at from a target at least one can make a 9" charge assuming that both units are under (C): 72.79282883706752 %

Feel free to correct my Maths as not always are correct

psipso wrote:

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

And your hope of a charge is ridiculous as you're relying on that 9" which we know very rarely happens. Strike squads can also be bubbled out very easily. They are for killing chaff and that's it. Even on a charge they don't do a massive amount of damage. 11 attacks against the Helverin you pose as an example, 7 hits, 2 wounds, one save probably made and wow you've done a whole D3 damage.

For sure all of you already know it but just to give some context to help on the discussion or to help whoever comes here and still don't know it.

A) Chance of a 9" charge: 27.777777777777773 %
B) Chance of a 9" charge assuming that it will be used a command point to re-rolla a dice if the some of the 2 dices is equal or higher than 3: 41.666666666666663 %
C) Change of a 9" charge assuming to be in range of First to the fray and hence been able to re-roll both dices: 47.8395061728395 %
D) Chance that if 2 GK units are at from a target at least one can make a 9" charge: 47.8395061728395 %
E) Chance that if 2 GK units are at from a target at least one can make a 9" charge assuming that one will be able to use (B): 57.87037037037037 %
F) Chance that if 2 GK units are at from a target at least one can make a 9" charge assuming that both units are under (C): 72.79282883706752 %

Feel free to correct my Maths as not always are correct

Thanks for that. However I do maintain that charging strikes after DS isn't an effective strategy. I'm also not amazingly keen on making the NDKGM the warlord since he will be right in their face asking to be dealt with; and by making the Knight the warlord you save 2CP.

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

Thanks for that. However I do maintain that charging strikes after DS isn't an effective strategy. I'm also not amazingly keen on making the NDKGM the warlord since he will be right in their face asking to be dealt with; and by making the Knight the warlord you save 2CP.

My intention is not to judge if is an effective strategy or not. Just to provide some data. (BTW I edited the initial mat-hammer and i use a simulation for the most tricky use cases which is more reliable than my lacklustre maths). I also forgot a use case which seems the most efficient and is to combine first to the fray and CP re-roll in the following way:

G) Chance of a 9" charge assuming following the rule that when rolling to charge roll if both of the dice are less than 4 then re-roll both dice with first to the fray, otherwise if any of both dices are 4 or more but the total is less than 9 then use a CP and re-roll the lowest: 56.95693569569357 %



I don't judge if it's worthy to use a CP to re-roll a charge. I'm aware that this will depend on the situation and the game. I just aim to give some data, hopefully without any mistakes, and been aware that there is more than raw numbers in the game.

Really just arguing between a meh unit and a meh unit.

Dreadnoughts are better now. Yes. Are they efficient? No. Other stuff out there, external to the codex does everything they do better.

Strike squads are the "same" as before... But they were already meh. So many other armies getting better actually made strike squads worse in external balance.

 Smotejob wrote:
Really just arguing between a meh unit and a meh unit.

Dreadnoughts are better now. Yes. Are they efficient? No. Other stuff out there, external to the codex does everything they do better.

Strike squads are the "same" as before... But they were already meh. So many other armies getting better actually made strike squads worse in external balance.

I agree. Especially when you compare the same points-worth of strikes to Deathwatch vets...

 Drinkgasoline wrote:

 Smotejob wrote:
Really just arguing between a meh unit and a meh unit.

Dreadnoughts are better now. Yes. Are they efficient? No. Other stuff out there, external to the codex does everything they do better.

Strike squads are the "same" as before... But they were already meh. So many other armies getting better actually made strike squads worse in external balance.

I agree. Especially when you compare the same points-worth of strikes to Deathwatch vets...

Deathwatch vets ability to switch ammo is awesome. I really think every grey Knight unit should, in addition to smite, know the powers psybolt (make it a power) and hammerhand and be able to choose and cast one each turn and not be restricted if another unit already casted it.

Make all vehicles psyhic pilot and know psybolt and all non laser guns affected. Bolters to autocannon to assault cannons to psilencer.


The wish listing...

I will keep my 3 gk hq iso of my guard

 Smotejob wrote:
Really just arguing between a meh unit and a meh unit.

Dreadnoughts are better now. Yes. Are they efficient? No. Other stuff out there, external to the codex does everything they do better.

Strike squads are the "same" as before... But they were already meh. So many other armies getting better actually made strike squads worse in external balance.

Ven Dreads being cheaper creates easier access to anti-tank though, which isn't exactly a bad thing. I know my Deathwatch are happy but they get a more useful rule so...