jeffersonian000 wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Interesting. I never knew that. Can you link the study?

A regular poster on Bolter and Chainsword is a professor at the University of Arizona. He posted his results over there. It was a class project to roll 1 million dice 1 million times each, with the class keeping track of each roll of each dice. They found that square edged dice with applied markings rolled near 16.666~%, while rounded edge/corner with drilled pips tending to roll 1’s at over 17-27% of the time. To find out why, he had the materials physics department cut the offending dice to determine what was causing the uneven outcome. They found that the 1’s side was in most cases heavier than the other side’s, but that the rounded edges and corners did not provide enough resistance to stop with the 1’s side down. Due to it becoming an inverse pendulum when rolled, these types of dice tend to stop rolling with the heavier side up more often.

He did reach out to the manufacturers, and was informed that the reason why non-casino dice are rounded is to allow them to save enough material to cast a 7th dice out of every 6, which saves them on manufacturing costs. Apparently, this was a known problem within the industry, hence why casino dice are sharp edged with printed pips. If I remember correctly, he said Chessex had some of the better balanced dice.

Since I read that study, I switched to square edged printed dice. My favorites for 40k are the GW Imperial Knight dice, which are square edged and printed, as well as being a GW licensed product.

I’d post a link, but I haven’t been on BnC in a while.

SJ

jeffersonian000 wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Interesting. I never knew that. Can you link the study?

A regular poster on Bolter and Chainsword is a professor at the University of Arizona. He posted his results over there. It was a class project to roll 1 million dice 1 million times each, with the class keeping track of each roll of each dice. They found that square edged dice with applied markings rolled near 16.666~%, while rounded edge/corner with drilled pips tending to roll 1’s at over 17-27% of the time. To find out why, he had the materials physics department cut the offending dice to determine what was causing the uneven outcome. They found that the 1’s side was in most cases heavier than the other side’s, but that the rounded edges and corners did not provide enough resistance to stop with the 1’s side down. Due to it becoming an inverse pendulum when rolled, these types of dice tend to stop rolling with the heavier side up more often.

He did reach out to the manufacturers, and was informed that the reason why non-casino dice are rounded is to allow them to save enough material to cast a 7th dice out of every 6, which saves them on manufacturing costs. Apparently, this was a known problem within the industry, hence why casino dice are sharp edged with printed pips. If I remember correctly, he said Chessex had some of the better balanced dice.

Since I read that study, I switched to square edged printed dice. My favorites for 40k are the GW Imperial Knight dice, which are square edged and printed, as well as being a GW licensed product.

I’d post a link, but I haven’t been on BnC in a while.

SJ

Leo_the_Rat wrote:Thanks. I think I found a similar study right here on DakkaDakka.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/That%27s_How_I_Roll_-_A_Scientific_Analysis_of_Dice

 lash92 wrote:
Hey folks,
I´m interested in allying in some GK to my BA and would like to here your opinion.
Normally I play BA + AdMech and while I generally like AdMech I feel like they don´t work that good together.
So I´m thinking about kind of an off beat BA-GK soup which relies on a one-two punch.

Let me quickly preface, that I play in a restricted tournament series, with the following restrictions:
- 1750 pts
- max 2 detachments (1 mandatory batallion)
- max 2 times the same units (except troops)
- max 1 LoW
So please keep this in mind

So a quick draft for a list I made would be:

GK Batallion
- GMNDK
- Captain Stern
- 3 x 5 Strikes
- Ancient

BA Batallion
- Smash Cpt
- Sanguinor
- 3x5 Intercessors for durable obj. holding
- Sang Ancient with 5+++ FnP Banner
- 10 Sanguinary Guard

Turn 1:
- give the GMNDK 2++ and get him in front of enemy
- Advance SG + Ancient up the board
- Sanguinor + Smash Cpt either advance as well or in reserve
So the enemy has two durable targets in front of him which he must somehow get rid off

Turn 2:
- the rest comes on the board, including cpt + ancient for big smite and this other MW spell which uses LD since he is LD 10

This list is about 1690 pts atm and just a first draft.
Would like to hear some feedback on how you rate my idea.

If anyone else has some experience regarding GK + Blood Angels (and hopefully not just 3x5 scouts + smash cpts ;P) please feel free to share them!

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Maybe it's just me but I can't see a way out of this morass. My FLGS plays at 1250 points. Unfortunately, a lot of people in my meta are playing Tau.

I don't see how to put out enough quality shots to damage their Riptides and still deal with the rest of their units, mostly due to their shield drone rules. Not to mention the Tau's ridiculous marker light ability (it's been explained to me that the marker light hits on a 2+ and then my opponent pays 1 CP to make 1 marker light to add d3 additional plus markers on my nearby units as well). It may be that the people who were telling me this were combining rules but even then it all seems so futile to try to fight with what we have.

/rant

psipso wrote:


Also a well placed vortex of doom can potentially murder a whole bunch of drones.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:


Unfortunately, even killing six drones in the Psychic phase isn't enough to make charging GKI into T'au Sept overwatch very enticing....

Spartacus wrote:
Interesting Beta-Rule coming, previewed in the leak of next months WD:

https://imgur.com/a/3YEDg58

Bolter Discipline:

Instead of the normal rules for Rapid Fire, all bolter weapons fired by Loyal/Chaos ADEPTUS ASTARTES units may rapid fire at maximum range if:

-Target is within half range (like normal)
-Unit was stationary in the movement phase
-Unit is TERMINATORS/BIKER/VEHICLE

Storm Bolters, HUrricane bolters, Relic Bolters etc all count, as long as they are rapid fire.

(paraphrased)

Looks like a decent buff to all Marine type armies, but certainly for the GK codex. There aren't many units that aren't positively affected by it.

Edit: I also enjoy their use of keywords to selectively buff things that certainly needed it. Bodes well for future beta rules, rather than a ham-fisted shotgun approach.

Audustum wrote:

Spartacus wrote:
Interesting Beta-Rule coming, previewed in the leak of next months WD:

https://imgur.com/a/3YEDg58

Bolter Discipline:

Instead of the normal rules for Rapid Fire, all bolter weapons fired by Loyal/Chaos ADEPTUS ASTARTES units may rapid fire at maximum range if:

-Target is within half range (like normal)
-Unit was stationary in the movement phase
-Unit is TERMINATORS/BIKER/VEHICLE

Storm Bolters, HUrricane bolters, Relic Bolters etc all count, as long as they are rapid fire.

(paraphrased)

Looks like a decent buff to all Marine type armies, but certainly for the GK codex. There aren't many units that aren't positively affected by it.

Edit: I also enjoy their use of keywords to selectively buff things that certainly needed it. Bodes well for future beta rules, rather than a ham-fisted shotgun approach.

It's a buff but I'm not sure it's much of one for us. Due to our Deep Striking and shunting, plus our high desire to be in melee, we're usually in Rapid Fire range anyway.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

Audustum wrote:

Spartacus wrote:
Interesting Beta-Rule coming, previewed in the leak of next months WD:

https://imgur.com/a/3YEDg58

Bolter Discipline:

Instead of the normal rules for Rapid Fire, all bolter weapons fired by Loyal/Chaos ADEPTUS ASTARTES units may rapid fire at maximum range if:

-Target is within half range (like normal)
-Unit was stationary in the movement phase
-Unit is TERMINATORS/BIKER/VEHICLE

Storm Bolters, HUrricane bolters, Relic Bolters etc all count, as long as they are rapid fire.

(paraphrased)

Looks like a decent buff to all Marine type armies, but certainly for the GK codex. There aren't many units that aren't positively affected by it.

Edit: I also enjoy their use of keywords to selectively buff things that certainly needed it. Bodes well for future beta rules, rather than a ham-fisted shotgun approach.

It's a buff but I'm not sure it's much of one for us. Due to our Deep Striking and shunting, plus our high desire to be in melee, we're usually in Rapid Fire range anyway.

I've been taking a battalion of three min+psilencer GKSS. At least one of these units sits on an objective for the entire game (because SOMEONE has to start on the board in order to Gate my GMDK) (and the GKI have Vortex or HH).
In my last game, I had two units on a backfield objective. The entire game they were taking potshots at various characters or units on other objectives that were outside RF. My units didn't move. If this rule had been in play, I would've been getting 32 bolter shots instead of 16; which would've broken through that damn 3++ on the Woof Captain on turn 4 instead of turn 5, which in turn would've let me shoot at a different unit and save Voldus contesting an objective....
You see how it goes. There's a small but significant ripple effect here.

We don't have bad matchups against other Marines. We have close matchups. Maybe this sort of change will shift us to having GOOD matchups against Marines, and merely CLOSE matches against Eldar, Guard, and Tau, rather than bad ones.

Audustum wrote:
You don't need to worry about having boots on the ground for GoI. Your guy sitting around waiting to GoI county as boots on the ground.

Spartacus wrote:
Interesting Beta-Rule coming, previewed in the leak of next months WD:

https://imgur.com/a/3YEDg58

Bolter Discipline:

Instead of the normal rules for Rapid Fire, all bolter weapons fired by Loyal/Chaos ADEPTUS ASTARTES units may rapid fire at maximum range if:

-Target is within half range (like normal)
-Unit was stationary in the movement phase
-Unit is TERMINATORS/BIKER/VEHICLE

Storm Bolters, HUrricane bolters, Relic Bolters etc all count, as long as they are rapid fire.

(paraphrased)

Looks like a decent buff to all Marine type armies, but certainly for the GK codex. There aren't many units that aren't positively affected by it.

Edit: I also enjoy their use of keywords to selectively buff things that certainly needed it. Bodes well for future beta rules, rather than a ham-fisted shotgun approach.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

Audustum wrote:
You don't need to worry about having boots on the ground for GoI. Your guy sitting around waiting to GoI county as boots on the ground.

GMDK has Sanctuary. GKI has Hammerhand or Vortex. That leaves a GKSS to have Gate, so they have to start on the board next to the GMDK so that the power can be cast.
Nothing to do with Boots on the Ground or Sudden Death.

Sometimes your Snipers can't be placed on the objective, due to terrain. For example, in that game I spoke about earlier, there was one objective in my deployment zone, on the 36" line. In the center of the field was a HUGE piece of LoS-blocking terrain.

I chose to deploy my six Arquebuses so that they could actually see something on T1, instead of nothing. And they ended up killing the scary DA Libby (who had 2 debuff powers that I know were going to shoot at my Gallant).

Sometimes, the PAGK is the best choice to hold an objective. It always depends.

And really, GKSS are NOT supposed to hit things in the face. With falchions, a min unit has 9 to 11 force attacks (depending on if you have a psilencer in there or not). Let's split the difference, call it 10, and that gives you 6-7 hits and 3-4 wounds on GEQ or MEQ.

That's pretty terrible. They are MUCH better at shooting.
And in addition, PAGK have the PA save--against anything that is TRULY cc oriented, they melt just as easily as their Astartes brothers.

Strike Squad melee is a nice tiny buff that turns the unit into a jack-of-all-trades.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Indeed the new Bolt rule helps the regular Terminator, but they're still absurdly expensive compared to a Paladin, so it doesn't really help.

I actually like the idea of Paladins now though. A unit of 5 with two Psilencers always has max shots now, and if you were going absurd MSU you can do units of just 3 dudes always getting max shots.

For every fivemodels in the unit, two Paladins may replace their storm bolter with an item from the Special
Weapons list.

 Quickjager wrote:
I don't really see a change for us... GK ideally should never be stationary, so the only infantry that truly benefit are Termies, specifically Paladins so that they can shoot units that are potentially blocking another units crucial movement path.

Stormraven is nicer, so is the Crusader. I think the Crusader was the only LR really worth taking and this just kind of cements that.

 Quickjager wrote:
He wants to be able to move them and get the new bolter beta rule.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:
He wants to be able to move them and get the new bolter beta rule.

The durability of Paladins still wins out over a couple more Storm Bolter shots, and really the new rule should be thought of as a supplement, rather than something to focus on.

 Quickjager wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:
He wants to be able to move them and get the new bolter beta rule.

The durability of Paladins still wins out over a couple more Storm Bolter shots, and really the new rule should be thought of as a supplement, rather than something to focus on.

I agree, I'm just explaining what he is trying to do. You will never catch me with Termies that are not Pallies.