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Ok, quick after action report on the above army list:

Played against 1850 points of Blood Angels.
1 Landraider, 2 Predators, 1 Furiouso dreadnought, 1 squad scout, 3 squads assault marines with jump packs, 2 tactical squads, 2-3 sanguinary priests and a librarian with jump pack.

Mission: Secure and Control.
Turn 1: I go first because my deployment is 2 Stormravens with everyone but 2 NDK inside of them. So, by rules I was done in 2 placements.
Top of Turn: Rocket across board with both Ravens. Unleash all shots into 1 predator leaving it with 2 wounds left.
Bottom of turn: BA player unleashed entire force into shooting 1 Raven. Total damage was 7 wounds. He learned, Flame cannons, assault cannons and heavy bolters aren't enough to take down a raven. Other lesson learned for other player. Though you might have jump troops, DON'T charge a stormraven. 1 Dead sanginary priest plus 1 near dead squad of assault troops to Overwatch.

Turn 2: Deploy all forces from ravens on ground. Move to within 3" of Predator + Land Raider. Psychic phase, Landraider takes smites from 2 squads, crowe, 2 dreadknights and an inquisitor. A total of 14 mortal wounds. Shooting phase dreadknights finish landraider.
Charges put me in combat with Severely wounded predator with 1 purifier squad. Rest of troops tied up with other two purifier squads plus inquisitor. Crowe takes on tactical squad on his own.
Bottom of turn: Other predator puts another 6 wounds on wounded Stormraven bringing it to 13 total wounds. Furiouso fails charge, Librarian and Sanguinary guard charge and assault one of the dreadknights. It goes badly for the guard.

Top of round 3: All firepower into somewhat healthy predator and dreadnought. Dreadnought is killed. Predator left with 1 wound. Psychic phase: 6 total smites pretty much decimate all troops left on the table. The 7th smite is the two purifiers in hand to hand with severely wounded predator. They roll 12 on smite, It does 3 mortal wounds to them, killing them. The predator takes 3 mortal wounds from demons dragging two purifiers into warp and is killed also.
Bottom of turn: Raven 1 is finally shot down. very little else happens.

Turn 4: smites plus shooting result in 2 scouts left alive on Blood angel side. Player concedes.

So, overall. If you can get the purifiers across the table. They are well worth their weight. You are only going to cast smite.

It should be noted that Castellan Crowe never managed to kill a single marine with his sword in combat. But he did manage to kill a land raider, a predator and 5 tactical marines with his smite.

I've been working on a similar list using Inquisition and blood angels in 2x Stormravens (Which I deem one of the best units in the game now, due to all the heavy weapons with no move and shoot penalty)

How'd the overwatch do so much? Overwatch is still hit on 6s, no?

2 Multi-melta (1d6 damage) + 2 Missile (3 damage) + 12 Assault Cannon (1 damage) + 24 Bolter shots (1 damage) for Overwatch.

Unlike 7th edition it doesn't need fire arch and a vehicle can fire Overwatch.

Youn wrote:
I am going to be playing a game this evening with the following force. I want to test if we can deliver PAGK into melee in a much more effective method.

Spoiler:

Stormraven Gunship I (AC, MM, 2HurricaneBolters, 2 ML) [309]
Castellan Crowe [125]
Purifier Squad I (5 man, 1 hammer, 2 psycannons) [177]
Purifier Squad II (5 man, 1 hammer, 2 psycannons) [177}

Stormraven Gunship II (AC, MM, 2HurricaneBolters, 2 ML) [309]
Purifier Squad III (5 man, 1 hammer, 2 psycannons) [177}
Inquisitor Livris (Hereticus, 2 inferno pistols, psyker) [79]

Nemesis Dreadknight I (2DF, H.Inc, H.PsyC, Telep)[245]
Nemesis Dreadknight II (2DF, H.Inc, H.PsyC, Telep) [245]


-- 1843 --

The FLGS at the moment is running this months tournament at 1850. So, I have to play test at that level.

Like the list.... was the Inquisitor effective and necessary ? how would you do 2k pts ?

Also can Dreadnoughts now take GK weapons or are they still locked into SM loadouts ?

So, the inquisitor was actually 1 infernal pistol and 1 force sword as we noticed it cannot take 2 infernal pistols.

What it really ended up being is another smite on the table. And a powerful smite. I did roll an 11 on my smite roll vs his librarian resulting in an instant kill of that librarian. But at that point in the game, it was very obvious that the game was going to be over for the Blood Angel player.

On 2k, If I dropped the Inquisitor that would give me about 230 points to work with. I would have to play around with my forces to determine how that would play out.

Option 1: 1 Dreadnought carried by one of the Ravens.
Option 2: 2 Strike squads with 1 Hammer each no special weapon. (this is 2 more smites)
Option 3: 1 Purgation squad with 4 incinerators and 1 hammer (1 smite plus a huge amount of incinerator hits, this would ride in the spare spot of the second raven)

As you can see you can really play around with those last 230 points. My goal is to use the PAGK forces to get as many smites as possible and to deliver them into a 3" range of your opponent by movement on turn 2.

With only deploying 2 Ravens plus 2 Nemesis Dreadknights. You are effectively making increasing your chance of going first. You should always target the items that can do multi-wounds to your Ravens on turn 1.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, remember once you get into assault. You want to still be casting Smite. If you Perils and it wipes out unit. You will take pretty much everything around you with you into the Warp.

So, don't worry about that.

Always target the multi-wounding items. Remember Vehicles frequently blow up and take a lot of models with them. So, if you can force an explosion try for it.

Reposting my battle report from the thread on the General Board:

Little battle I played last night if anyone is interested, all from memory so bear with me. Images are to scale as best as I was able, but I'm no artist obviously.

1000 pts GK vs Tau

Tau list:

1 x Ethereal
2 x 5 Fire Warriors
2 x 5 Pathfinders
1 x 3 Crisis Battlesuits (2 Plasma guns, 2 missile pods, burst cannon, fusion gun)
2 x 10 Kroot
1 x Shaper
1 x Riptide

My list:

1 x Grandmaster
3 x 3 Paladins (mix of swords, halberds and some falchions)
1 x 6 Interceptors (halberds)
1 x 7 Interceptors (also halberds)
Everyone had storm bolters

We played plain old kill points, with secondary objectives, just to get used to the core mechanics. No detachments just bring whatever, but matched play rules otherwise. I won the roll and decided to go second. He castled up in one corner and I deployed 1 paldin squad and both interceptor squads, holding the rest back for deep strike.



Image is large, open it in a new window while reading the blow-by-blow.

Turn 1 Tau
My tau friend infiltrated in his 20 kroot and the shaper, and fired at the interceptors killing 4. his riptide and friends advanced and fired smart missiles at the interceptors also, killing one from the smaller squad. All 3 kroot units tried to assault and I was able to fell many with overwatch, he was forced to declare against multiple units due to tight spacing. He made the charge with one of his units and proceeded to wipe out the rest of the larger squad of interceptors! In reply the other unit of interceptor killed enough to force the rest to flee.

Turn 1 GK
I brought in all of my deep strikers around the Riptide(underneath the platform), shunted with the remaining Interceptors, and cast gate of infinity with my other Paladins, focusing on trying to annihilate it. In the psychic phase, purge soul from the Grandmaster failed to cast, smite from 2 of the Paladin squads stripped 2 Riptide wounds, and the interceptors used smite to kill one Fire Warrior. Storm Bolter fire killed 3 Kroot, 2 Pathfinders and 4 Fire Warriors. In the assault phase, 2 of the squads of Paladins successfully charged the Riptide. The Tau reserved overwatch supporting fire for my Grandmaster, who saved poorly losing 2 of his wounds. The Paladin squads battered the Riptide, leaving it with 5 Wounds remaining.

Turn 2 Tau
The Crisis suits came in on the Tau's right flank while the kroot chased the interceptors. Markerlights lit up the Paladins. Riptide flew out of combat and turned to blast one of the offending Paladin Squads, demolishing them all. The crisis suits then proceeded to kill 2 Paladins from the next squad (ouch). Kroot shooting killed another interceptor. The rest of shooting against the Paladins was ineffectual. The Kroot charged the Interceptors and lost 1 to overwatch fire, however made the long charge. Another Kroot was killed in the combat but they held their nerve.

Turn 2 GK
The Grey Knights charged forward. In the psychic phase one Fire warrior and one Kroot were killed by smite, the rest failing to cast. However the Grandmaster cast Purge Soul on the Riptide, rolling a 6. My friend rolled a 1 resulting in a difference of 6!!! 6 Mortal wounds would have been enough to finish the monster, however the Ethereal has used his ability last turn to give all Tau in the vicinity a 6+ FNP (effectively). He rolled a dice for each wound and managed 2 6's, which kept the damned thing alive with 1 wound remaining! In the shooting phase only 1 Pathfinder was killed, thanks to more 6+ FNP rolls. The last remaining Paladin tried to assault the riptide but was just short on his assault roll, but untouched by the huge swathe of overwatch. The other Paladins attempted another charge at the Fire Warriors, but were also short on charge range unfortunately. In the fight phase 1 more Kroot was slain.

Turn 3 Tau
The Tau Ethereal and Riptide hunkered back into their corner. Riptide was now only hitting on 6's, so did no damage to the chasing Paladin, however the Crisis suits blasted him easily with missile pods. The rest of the Tau were unable to wound the Gransmaster or Paladins. The Kroot Shaper and a lone fire warrior charged the interceptors. In the fight phase, Interceptors continued their bad run. losing one of their number while doing only a single wound to the Shaper in return.

Turn 3 GK
The remaining Terminators pursued the retreating Tau as best they could. The grandmaster again attempted to finish off the Riptitde with Purge Soul, but the roll off was indecisive. Smite claimed another Fire warrior, who were then finished off by Storm Bolter fire. Attempting to charge the crisis suits from a distance, the Grandmaster was unable to catch anyone. Yet another Interceptor was slain by the Kroot, and they could manage nothing in reply.

Turn 4 Tau
The Crisis suits focussed on the Grandmaster (lit up by marker lights) and cut him down with plasma and missile fire netting the Warlord kill for the Tau. Riptide was again unable to hit anything due to the damage it had suffered and the 2 surviving Pathfinders of squad B charged forward out of the ruins to block the path of the advancing Paladins, however their guns couldn't punch through Terminator armour. The interceptors again failed to do anything and the combat with the Kroot continued to stalemate.

Turn 4 GK
The last Terminators fired at the Riptide, and were rewarded when it finally toppled over. They crushed the 2 Pathfinders who were blocking their progress towards the Ethereal. The interceptors lost another of their number, leaving the Justicar on his own and starting to panic.

Turn 5 Tau
The Ethereal ran to safety, leaving his Crisis suits and pathfinders to deal with the Marauding Paladins. The Pathfinders attempted to target them with markerlights however performed poorly, scoring only 1 hit. Fire from the Crisis suits was only able to kill one Paladin due to the extra cover provided by the ruins. The Justicar was able to survive attacks from his 3 opponents but again unable to do anything in reply.

Turn 5 GK
In the final turn the 2 Paldins killed one pathfinder with smite, then cut the rest of them to ribbons with bolter fire. The Interceptor Justicar also cast smite, but suffered a perils of the warp on double 1's. He exploded taking the kroot and Fire Warrior with him, however the Shaper survived with one wound remaining. Their way now clear, the Paladins charged the crisis suits, however one was killed by a lucky missile pod hit in overwatch. The charge was successful however he was unable to do any damage.

That was the end of the game (stopped at T5 to allow for other battles to be played). We tallied up kill points and found that it was somehow 7 Points to 5 in favour of the Knights, however the Tau had also scored Warlord Kill and First Blood. On checking again we noticed that the last remaining Terminator was just inside the enemy deployment zone, scoring linebreaker and taking it out by one point!

Very fun battle lots of ups and downs. I would have certainly lost if we had played on, but we were just happy to test the new mechanics and found them very intuitive. It took us about 2 and a half hours to play however a lot of that was checking stats and rule wordings, which we can obviously cut down on as we play more.

My initial thoughts on the new rules:

1. Storm bolters are great, Grandmaster/Draigo to give them re-rolls is even better
2. Cover is a huge bonus for heavily armoured troops, they are cut to pieces quickly by big guns otherwise.
3. Fast units with big guns will be a big challenge for Grey Knights as they have always been

4. Based in Youns report - I'd like to try a Stormraven!

These are all great battle reports! Thank you all for posting them!

I don the dex to hand but do we have a way to snipe out characters?

rowan739 wrote:
I don the dex to hand but do we have a way to snipe out characters?

Purge Soul psychic power is pretty handy for exactly that.

Has anyone else seen that the terminators/paladins/strike quads/interceptors+ can have the dreadknight CC weapons? 'Any model many replace his nemesis force sword with an item from the grey knights melee weapons list' The melee weapons list includes the dreadknight weapons.

What Dreadknight loadout seems to be the best? I am leaning toward a Psilencer and Psycannon with a Dreadfist(yes, you are ALWAYS paying for a Dreadfist) and Greatsword. Should allow for attacking many different types of enemies. The Fist and Sword is the cheapest option now, but still fairly effective. Psilencers look like they will be great for clearing light infantry or even overwhelming heavy infantry with shots. Psycannons have a good amount of shots so they can take out heavy infantry quite well. The Incinerator is just too swingy for my liking. The Dreadknight teleporter looks like it can help ensure those weapons get in range.

The whole loadout comes to 225 pts though, so...yikes.

My Terminators come out to 255 pts with two Falchion pairs, a sword, a Halberd, a Hammer, and a Psycannon. Also yikes. 2 wounds and a butt load of attacks helps soften that blow.

necronlad42 wrote:
Has anyone else seen that the terminators/paladins/strike quads/interceptors+ can have the dreadknight CC weapons? 'Any model many replace his nemesis force sword with an item from the grey knights melee weapons list' The melee weapons list includes the dreadknight weapons.

You are looking at the wrong list, look on the Grey Knight front page in the black box, it calls out the correct list.

So, I did find I had an issue killing my way though the following AM list.

three 50 man conscript squads.
three commissars with powerfist
three special weapons teams
three squads with hotshot lasguns, plasma guns and plasma pistol
three Infantry squads
three Wyvern
one Manticore
one command squad
one commander with plasma pistol
Saint Celestine plus 3 girls
three Armored Sentinels
two squads of ratling snipers
One master of Ordinance


I did manage to last until turn 5 but eventually pure attrition tabled me on that turn.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
What Dreadknight loadout seems to be the best? I am leaning toward a Psilencer and Psycannon with a Dreadfist(yes, you are ALWAYS paying for a Dreadfist) and Greatsword. Should allow for attacking many different types of enemies. The Fist and Sword is the cheapest option now, but still fairly effective. Psilencers look like they will be great for clearing light infantry or even overwhelming heavy infantry with shots. Psycannons have a good amount of shots so they can take out heavy infantry quite well. The Incinerator is just too swingy for my liking. The Dreadknight teleporter looks like it can help ensure those weapons get in range.

The whole loadout comes to 225 pts though, so...yikes.

My Terminators come out to 255 pts with two Falchion pairs, a sword, a Halberd, a Hammer, and a Psycannon. Also yikes. 2 wounds and a butt load of attacks helps soften that blow.

I think you're forgetting to pay for the Stormbolters, so another +8 points there for the Terminators. Yikes indeed, I think I may just run Paladins, 25% more expensive but 33% tougher and an extra special weapon.

Did anyone else notice that Assault Cannons are Heavy 6 but Psycannons are only Heavy 4? How do I submit that for FAQ/errata?

Lanlaorn wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
What Dreadknight loadout seems to be the best? I am leaning toward a Psilencer and Psycannon with a Dreadfist(yes, you are ALWAYS paying for a Dreadfist) and Greatsword. Should allow for attacking many different types of enemies. The Fist and Sword is the cheapest option now, but still fairly effective. Psilencers look like they will be great for clearing light infantry or even overwhelming heavy infantry with shots. Psycannons have a good amount of shots so they can take out heavy infantry quite well. The Incinerator is just too swingy for my liking. The Dreadknight teleporter looks like it can help ensure those weapons get in range.

The whole loadout comes to 225 pts though, so...yikes.

My Terminators come out to 255 pts with two Falchion pairs, a sword, a Halberd, a Hammer, and a Psycannon. Also yikes. 2 wounds and a butt load of attacks helps soften that blow.

I think you're forgetting to pay for the Stormbolters, so another +8 points there for the Terminators. Yikes indeed, I think I may just run Paladins, 25% more expensive but 33% tougher and an extra special weapon.

Did anyone else notice that Assault Cannons are Heavy 6 but Psycannons are only Heavy 4? How do I submit that for FAQ/errata?

Nope, I remembered the Storm Bolters. 220 for the Squad, 8 pts in SBs, 14 Pt Psycannon, 13 pt Hammer comes out to 255.

Ah that's it then, the Psycannon is 20 points for Terminators.

I don't know why, the weapon isn't any better on a TDA unit now since they no longer have Relentless, but all the special weapons cost more for Terminators.

Between this and other little things like the Assault Cannon being Heavy 6, Psycannon being Heavy 4 and that RAW the Dreadknight weapons are not limited to only the Dreadknight has me a little annoyed by how much effort went into the GK rules!

We'll see what the errata and future books bring I guess.

Lanlaorn wrote:
Ah that's it then, the Psycannon is 20 points for Terminators.

I don't know why, the weapon isn't any better on a TDA unit now since they no longer have Relentless, but all the special weapons cost more for Terminators.

Between this and other little things like the Assault Cannon being Heavy 6, Psycannon being Heavy 4 and that RAW the Dreadknight weapons are not limited to only the Dreadknight has me a little annoyed by how much effort went into the GK rules!

We'll see what the errata and future books bring I guess.

They're on more survivable platforms... that really is it in a nutshell. Plus Apothocaries bringing back that guy become more "valuable" the fancier a model they return to a unit.

Lanlaorn wrote:
Ah that's it then, the Psycannon is 20 points for Terminators.

I don't know why, the weapon isn't any better on a TDA unit now since they no longer have Relentless, but all the special weapons cost more for Terminators.

Between this and other little things like the Assault Cannon being Heavy 6, Psycannon being Heavy 4 and that RAW the Dreadknight weapons are not limited to only the Dreadknight has me a little annoyed by how much effort went into the GK rules!

We'll see what the errata and future books bring I guess.

Where do you see it said that anyone other then the dreadknight can take any of the dreadknight weapons.

Lanlaorn wrote:
Ah that's it then, the Psycannon is 20 points for Terminators.

I don't know why, the weapon isn't any better on a TDA unit now since they no longer have Relentless, but all the special weapons cost more for Terminators.

Between this and other little things like the Assault Cannon being Heavy 6, Psycannon being Heavy 4 and that RAW the Dreadknight weapons are not limited to only the Dreadknight has me a little annoyed by how much effort went into the GK rules!

We'll see what the errata and future books bring I guess.

Ah poop. You are correct.

I do need to get another box of Terminators now so I can make some Paladins, an Apothecary, and an Ancient.

Spartacus wrote:

rowan739 wrote:
I don the dex to hand but do we have a way to snipe out characters?

Purge Soul psychic power is pretty handy for exactly that.

We can also freely take Vindicare Assassins in our Elite slots for just 90 points a pop, wargear included. That is if you don't mind bringing in an ally.

 Quickjager wrote:


At a cursory glance it looks like Grey Knights have improved across the board with the core rule changes, even if our individual units have not become better. Voldus remains disappointing

Disagree, purifiers might as well not exist right now. What on earth justifies their 26 PPM cost? They lost their extra attack, they lost psychic mastery 2, they are in all aspects inferior strike squads except for their 2 special weapon options. No way that you should ever pay a tax for that.

I still don't get why we are STILL paying more for terminator weapons, as their relentless platform advantage is gone.

Only one power per turn makes this army virtually useless in matched play... Sorry if I don't exactly share your enthusiasm, but it looks pretty bad for now for GKs in matched play... And I've been playing AoS for long enough now to know that the "rule of one" is the de-facto rule, regardless of game type you play.

You are paying for smite that causes d6 mortal ones. It's rather strong.

If you're looking for the most competitive build for GKs it's definitely going to be some kind of MSU Spam Smite option and IMHO Crowe and Purifiers will feature prominently.

The problem, again IMHO, is that nothing really got any tougher for the cost and other army's shooting became much stronger. Plus, against huge infantry spamming armies a few casts of Smite isn't going to do much.

Based on a cursory inspection of the rules I'd say that the future belongs to gunline IG and Tau, horde Tyranids and Orks.

Crowe is bad choice of HQ, he doesn't do anything but smite, take a GM so at least you can reroll 1's

My 1000 point list I will be running today against a IG list is as follows.

Spearhead Detachment - CP are hard to come by as GK because we can at most fulfill a Battalion before being forced to take questionable choices, I expect most GK armies to have between 4-6 as a result. We need to tilt the game heavily in our favor early on so CP becomes less important later on.

Draigo - 240

Dreadknight - 165 - Fists only
Dreadknight - 165 - FIsts only
Land Raider Crusader - 287

Purifiers - 140

This is an extremely low model army, at that same time it has very high quality. I fully expect to lose the entire purifier squad in one turn after they disembark upon which Draigo will most likely fall next. The plan is to essentially reduce the amount of units that would benefit from psychic powers by using large point models this way more bang for the buck is achieved which I believe to be important for low point fights. Any vehicles I encounter will likely be able to dealt with easily by any unit, the issue is if the IG player decides to have have conscript blobs in which case I will have to be trying to snipe out the commissar with Purge Soul every turn. Wish me luck.

 Coyote81 wrote:
You are paying for smite that causes d6 mortal ones. It's rather strong.

Except of course, due to the "rites of banishment" rule, every smite cast by a GK (and even most characters have this rule), causes only 1 mortal wound (regardless of casting roll) or 3 mortal wounds when going up against demons.

The range has also been reduced to 12", rather than the normal 18".

So you end up paying a lot for a gimped version of smite that only 1 unit gets to cast in competitive play... So GKs have been reduced to a "bring as allies" force.

 Elmir wrote:

 Coyote81 wrote:
You are paying for smite that causes d6 mortal ones. It's rather strong.

Except of course, due to the "rites of banishment" rule, every smite cast by a GK (and even most characters have this rule), causes only 1 mortal wound (regardless of casting roll) or 3 mortal wounds when going up against demons.

The range has also been reduced to 12", rather than the normal 18".

So you end up paying a lot for a gimped version of smite that only 1 unit gets to cast in competitive play... So GKs have been reduced to a "bring as allies" force.

Purifiers don't have the Rites of Banishment rule, so are not affected by it. They use only their unique rule for casting smite. (Captain Stern is similar).

Yes, but don't they have a ridiculous 3"/6" range respectively?

Not exactly efficient, is it? Especially for troops that can't deepstrike...

So, the reason I use stormravens is they move 20+" on turn one. If they survive the first turn worth of shooting from my opponent. Then I drop the purifiers immediately within 3" of my opponent.

The one game I had a difficulty with this my opponent had fielded 150 conscripts with 3 commissars as a shielding line. They moved forward and surrounded the Stormravens base. Requiring me to move the stormravens on the next turn, as such not being able to disembark the purifiers.

In that case, the stormravens still lasted until turn 4. And my purifiers did manage to get out but 22 models simply cannot whittle down that many models when the commissars have a rule that says conscripts only lose 1 on failed moral checks.

It should be noted at this point. Not a single army at our store has managed to actually defeat that AM army. I came the closest with my eldar army the fields 30 rangers and 9 dark reapers. As I could kill the three commissars on turn one and all visible vehicles also on turn one.

 Elmir wrote:
Yes, but don't they have a ridiculous 3"/6" range respectively?

Not exactly efficient, is it? Especially for troops that can't deepstrike...

As already mentioned, use a transport to move them up the field safely and then just get out right next to the enemy.

The real problem is that even the cheesiest smite spam list is only good against high Toughness and Armor units and I think the future will be all hordes.