8th Ed. Grey Knight Tactica Discussion - Mathhammer (Data To be Revised)

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**Kahor**

Coyote81 wrote:
You can continue to use the index dreadnought sheet. Let your rifleman roam free!

How can I do this? My understanding was that the codex overrides the index unless the codex does not contain an entry for the unit. It almost certainly contains an entry for a dreadnought and therefore overrides the index.

I also cannot take the FW one as it has been specifically stated that it cannot be GK in their FAQ.

**Spartacus**

That is incorrect. The GW page adressing it says certain options may be missing from the codex in which case use the index.

They even specifically mention dreadnought load outs as an example.

**Kahor**

Spartacus wrote:
That is incorrect. The GW page adressing it says certain options may be missing from the codex in which case use the index.

They even specifically mention dreadnought load outs as an example.

So it's done on an option by option basis? That is incredibly stupid and just sounds like they're trying to make up for missing things in the codex that people have noticed. I won't complain about being able to keep the autocannon dreads but then we'll have to use both the index and the codex no? What a mess

**Spartacus**

Is it really that big a deal? Still not sure why people seem all flustered over this. Its a non issue in any case.

**L0adedDice**

Quick question regarding the dread knight.
Seems if you give him a great hammer he also still has his dread fist.
Would I have to split his 4 attacks between the weapons or can I make all 4 with the hammer profile?

**Audustum**

L0adedDice wrote:
Quick question regarding the dread knight.
Seems if you give him a great hammer he also still has his dread fist.
Would I have to split his 4 attacks between the weapons or can I make all 4 with the hammer profile?

You can make all 4 with the hammer if you want to or you can split. It's your choice.

**Kahor**

I've just been reading through some of the Chaos release notes for their codex in the other thread. I feel like we've really got a raw deal in GK by comparison with the SM and Chaos codices so far. Is it just me?

Looks like they've got lots of new toys and bonuses plus a bunch of points decreases. On our side we've had basically no point decreases (in the case of terminators they've actually gone up 2 points?!) and I do like the psychic powers and some of the stratagems but still feels inferior I suppose when the base model you're putting all these things on costs so much more. I'm probably not explaining this very well but does anyone understand what I mean?

At the end of the day we're still S4, T4, 3+ but pay through the nose for it. (maybe just feeling ranty after reading the chaos stuff)

**Zarroc1733**

Quickjager wrote:
...So it is possible to have a Brigade detachment of nothing but Grey Knights, but it sucks...

Everyone who can has falchions.

HQ
Draigo
Brotherhood Champ

Troop
GKSS - Vanilla x 6

Elites
Apothecary - Hammer x 2
Apothecary - Vanilla x 1

Fast Attack
Interceptor Squad - Vanilla x 3

Heavy Support
Purgation - 4 Psilencers x 3

Just under 2k points, what does it get us?

- 12 CP so we can actually use these stratagems
- Everything in Power Armor except for 4 models
- 65 models on the board divided by 17 units, so 8 possible deepstrikers
- Make the Bro. Champ Warlord for the charge reroll
- Obj. Secured and Psychic Mastery

What would the strategy be with this list? Well we have 12 CP, so lets start spending that CP to put extra units into deepstrike, Bro. Champ is in the chamber, -1 CP.

8 units go in, we already got 1, 7 more.
- Draigo
- Apothecary Hammer
- Apothecary Hammer
- GKSS
- GKSS
- GKSS
- GKSS

Why not the Purgations? Because we want the melee to actually be in melee and not having the enemy removing models for a harder charge. Purgation are just gonna have to hoof it up the board. The last 2 GKSS will provide an escort, the enemy will have reserves on some kind of course. The last Apoth. can replenish models as they walk up because he probably won't be doing anything else.

Interceptors shunt up the board.

All of a sudden we have 10 units for a total of 38 force-sword wielding models in the face w/ 11 CP left. We won't be using the bolter weapon stratagem because we don't have a 10 man unit to benefit.

But is the enough? I have no idea. Do we NEED 9+ CP? Probably not.

But I know I don't have that many PA Grey Knights, I don't think it is a good list either. Thoughts?

One issue with your list. You need 3 HQs to run a brigade.

**Gest**

Kahor wrote:
I've just been reading through some of the Chaos release notes for their codex in the other thread. I feel like we've really got a raw deal in GK by comparison with the SM and Chaos codices so far. Is it just me?

[..]

Don't worry Kahor,
this is the general opinion of the trainwreck that is our new Codex.

We got some good Stratagems that we can't really use because GK are so expensive that they can't really abuse detachements, we got some nice psychic powers..which don't do much because the psychic phase is the weakest of the phases. Our relics are rather weak, but we have 2 good Warlord traits.
Half of our Units are unusable, but hey..we got 2 new fliers. Welcome to Greyknights.

Don't forget your new Chaplain on the way out, because no one wanted to use the ancient, because he's too expensive for the buff, so why not use the chaplain who does almost the same?

We became even more of a one trick pony "win alpha strike or lose" Army than in the index, which is no fun to play at all. GG WP

**Quickjager**

Zarroc1733 wrote:

One issue with your list. You need 3 HQs to run a brigade.

...Well feth.

Have to drop Draigo, take two chaplains then depending on their point cost.

Ughhhh. But Draigo is so gooooood...

Yea the Brigade detachment is a fool's dream. Probably. Hard to imagine this playing out.

**Kahor**

I feel like we'll be able to do some good psychic shenanigans but no matter what we do it will be an uphill battle. This will be because my opponent will just sit there with guileman and reroll everything in the gunline (I've heard about 3 triple-las preds?!).

I'm going to see what I can get out of the codex and what combinations of stratagem/psychic powers can be done. My main worry is that the base point costs are just too high compared with all the reductions that the other 2 codexes (so far) have had.

**Elmir**

Well, if you really want to have loads of CPs for your GKs, there's almost no other way than to ally in IG.

Luckily, you can get an IG battalion for less than 250 points in the form of 3 infantry squads with heavy weapon and 2 company commanders for 30p each. Do that twice and you'll have 60 expendable guards with say 6 autocannons and 4 company commanders to ensure they all get to shoot with an order.

On top of that, the cheap and plentiful guard units can ensure you get lots of things to cram into that teleport chamber.

Just have to make sure you hide those IG quite well, since you will very likely be the last one to finish deployment if you overdo it.

**jcd386**

I could definitely see a viable GK strategy being to take enough cheap guard units to be at 50%, go second, soak up a turn of shooting on the guard units, then drop in all of the GK stuff to kill things.

**w0nderland**

Great!

Buys 50 boxes of guards.

**Quickjager**

Do we even call ourselves GK players at that point...

**Gest**

Yeah, I have a big problem with the statement "I could definitely see a viable GK strategy being to take enough cheap guard units".

Because thats a design flaw. Thats playing IG with some GK units.

**Coyote81**

Quickjager wrote:
Do we even call ourselves GK players at that point...

Well I was a Daemon Hunter player first and foremost, GK worked for my Inquisitor, but the lore has changed since 4th ed days. I have no issues playing GK as an additive to my inquisition and IG.

**Audustum**

Gest wrote:
Yeah, I have a big problem with the statement "I could definitely see a viable GK strategy being to take enough cheap guard units".

Because thats a design flaw. Thats playing IG with some GK units.

I dunno, the more I see the less I think GW means for us to be a standalone faction.

**jcd386**

Well, you could do something similar with inquisitors and acolytes, who used to be a part of the GK codex, if you prefer that. That being said i imagine there are also viable pure GK builds, as well as mixed ones. And both are quite fluffy.

**TheMostWize**

Gest wrote:
Yeah, I have a big problem with the statement "I could definitely see a viable GK strategy being to take enough cheap guard units".

Because thats a design flaw. Thats playing IG with some GK units.

I agree with this. Guess for now I'll finish painting my current units and start building another force. Maybe some Raven Guard or something.

**virus646**

You want to have fluffy purist list (there are a lot of instances where GK allies with other armies when defending a world) or do you want competitive lists? I understand it might be sad that your definition of fluffy is not adequate against certain armies but I don't see anything wrong with multiple strike units, dakka dreads/doomglaive, DK HQ, storm raven, land raiders, etc. You can build a strong list using those options, maybe not the most competitive one but some of you are not looking for that anyway.

I feel a lot of negativity comes from facing a list with a badly built list and expecting miracle to happens. Astra is one of the stronger out there, you can also expect them to change soon.

**Quickjager**

You make no sense... not surprising.

**Thenord**

I'm really excited about the new codex! We get more fliers, even Better psyk, GM on dreadknight and overall a lot more feel and flavor to our army.

Besides, it's the same thing every time gw release a New codex: anticipation at first, then the "omg we're getting so nerfed it's unfair!!" And then a couple of weeks after release, people find out Everything is actually all right... No it might not be über competitive, but cmon... take it as a challenge..

**Smotejob**

I think Mass storm bolter spam is even more a thing with psybolts now. Three strike squads can easily pull down a leman Russ (wounding on 5, and they only get a 4+ ) with just shooting alone. Add in a mass power armor drop/shunt and you have a ton of fire power. Add in psychic smite spam/Purge soul/vortex
Then with the reroll charge trait? This is a hard tac alpha strike. Then take a grand master dreadknight toting a 3++save.

The strength of the grey knights is the ability to deal damage in all three phases.

It's the only build I can think of right now but it's something?

**Elmir**

Quickjager wrote:
Do we even call ourselves GK players at that point...

I do, but I'm an old fart that started this army in the old Codex Daemonhunters... So having cheap expendable guard with a bunch of silver knights teleporting in is very much returning to it's roots.

Back when you had "inducted Imperial guard" units as an actual codex entry.

**bloodoffi**

Does anyone has any idea on how to use a GM DK? I see that he haw a lot potential but the enemy can snipe him from afar cause he has more wounds than 8. Also i would prefer a librarian with a shield and a hammer or a staff.

**Spartacus**

bloodoffi wrote:
Does anyone has any idea on how to use a GM DK? I see that he haw a lot potential but the enemy can snipe him from afar cause he has more wounds than 8. Also i would prefer a librarian with a shield and a hammer or a staff.

I was planning to take him as a secondary HQ in a detachment with 2 HQ's and 3 Troops (I forget the name) This gives you a total of 6 CP's to work with, which means you can give him +1 invuln save for 3 turns. Also, cast sanctuary on him every turn. Deepstrike him in turn 1. Your opponent will be forced to either let him run rampant across the table or blunt all his firepower trying to punch through his T6 2+/2++ (or 3++) save and 12 wounds. Either way you'll have the initiative by forcing them into a rock and hard place situation. Give him a psycannon and psilencer and also use the +1 to strength and AP stratagem if you really wanna go for the throat.

Just don't let him get tarpitted by conscripts I guess.

**Elmir**

Him getting tarpitted can be fixed by giving him GoI. It was faq'ed that you can use it to port out of combat without any penalties. Sanctuary would be my second choice for him ofc.

I'm still thinking of using him as the warlord (fully aware of the risk, but playing very offensively seems to be part of the GK playstyle anyway) with First into the fray.

I still plan to combine him with a second imperial detachment of 3 IG infantry squad, company commander and possibly an inquisitor to feed the CP to him to use heed the prognosticars...

I think combining a small IG detachment with a main GK battalion using strikes with razorback to have enough troops on the table to allow a lot of deepstrikes, it can become a very aggressive force with quite a bit of long range lascannon/autocannon firepower in the backfield.

I just have to use my new toy:

**Coyote81**

Sexy GMDK for sure.

**Xenomancers**

That looks amazing I must say.

For those of you who are thinking about including allies in your GK force - you are really missing out on the best features of the army. +1 to psychic tests and deny the witch. I'm not giving up that bonus for command points.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think it's best to focus on the 2 battalion approach. 9 command points is more than enough. + Strike Squads are good.

The only issue with that is 4 required HQ's. GMDK kinda makes that NOT an issue anymore.