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macexor wrote: Thought I might ask GK players about this thing.
If a GK unit uses Gate of Infinity, do stratagems like Auspex Scan or Eldar's Forewarned enable enemy units to shoot at units coming via Gate?
The 'reinforcements' blurb in the main rules is very broad and covers anything which looks like deepstrike no matter what it is called and what phase its in. Gate of infinity therefore = deploying via reinforcements The only requirement for the stratagems is for the target to be arriving via reinforcements.
So yes, the stratagems can be used vs GOI (twice in one turn if you are also deepstriking, due to the different phase)
^^ I think thats right based on a cursory read through of the related rules, any other takes?
The stratagem only works vs reinforcements.Gates =/= reinforcements. You already have to be on the table to be gated you're not going off board and then coming back via reinforcements. Otherwise it would work on models disembarking from vehicles.
Gate =/= reserves but it does = Reinforcements. There is nothing in the Reinforcements blurb on page 177 of the Big Rules that specifies the unit must come from off the board. Only that it be 'set up on the battlefield mid turn'.
And in fact if we take a look at the Gate power itself, it reads 'Remove this unit from the battlefield and immediately set it up etc...' So even by that logic it does go off board for a moment until you've set it up as per the power.
People get confused because 'Reinforcements' sounds like a replacement for the 7th edition "reserves", when its actually more like a replacement for 'Deekstrike'.
What the consensus about Castellan Crowe? I do really like his fluff especially after reading his novels so I have been thinking of getting his model, but his profille is uh, underwhelming. His only two good points is being a cheap HQ and could be good against cheap low save tarpits.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/25 11:49:49
I found a deal at my FLGS store that was too good to pass up on, and now I find myself in possession of a box of Paladins/Terminators (for $20!). I'm not really interested in creating an entire Grey Knights army, but I do like the idea of a psychic-heavy detachment that I can deep strike down my opponent's throat.
With all that in mind, could you help me with some ideas for tactics/loadout? I was thinking I'd construct them as paladins, a paladin ancient, and a paladin apothecary for a vanguard detachment. I'm not sure what HQ I should get in that case, any ideas? How should I equip the paladins (it seems like dual falchions and maybe a hammer on the paragon is generally the way to go)? Any ideas for some marine combos that synergize well? I play Raven Guard and was thinking about using SftS to infiltrate a fairly large unit of sternguard to clear out some chaff and pave the way for the GK deep strike on turn 2. I'm concerned that they'll just be focus-fired down, but I suppose in that case it means that the rest of my army is attacking with impunity.
I know nothing at all about GKs apart from what I've read in this thread, so any help or guidance you can offer is much appreciated!
GuardStrider wrote: What the consensus about Castellan Crowe? I do really like his fluff especially after reading his novels so I have been thinking of getting his model, but his profille is uh, underwhelming. His only two good points is being a cheap HQ and could be good against cheap low save tarpits.
He's waste of points, but is that important enough to make you not buy his awesome model?
GuardStrider wrote: What the consensus about Castellan Crowe? I do really like his fluff especially after reading his novels so I have been thinking of getting his model, but his profille is uh, underwhelming. His only two good points is being a cheap HQ and could be good against cheap low save tarpits.
He's waste of points, but is that important enough to make you not buy his awesome model?
True enough I may run him as a Brotherhood Champion when I need a cheap HQ
Porphyrius wrote: I found a deal at my FLGS store that was too good to pass up on, and now I find myself in possession of a box of Paladins/Terminators (for $20!). I'm not really interested in creating an entire Grey Knights army, but I do like the idea of a psychic-heavy detachment that I can deep strike down my opponent's throat.
With all that in mind, could you help me with some ideas for tactics/loadout? I was thinking I'd construct them as paladins, a paladin ancient, and a paladin apothecary for a vanguard detachment. I'm not sure what HQ I should get in that case, any ideas? How should I equip the paladins (it seems like dual falchions and maybe a hammer on the paragon is generally the way to go)? Any ideas for some marine combos that synergize well? I play Raven Guard and was thinking about using SftS to infiltrate a fairly large unit of sternguard to clear out some chaff and pave the way for the GK deep strike on turn 2. I'm concerned that they'll just be focus-fired down, but I suppose in that case it means that the rest of my army is attacking with impunity.
I know nothing at all about GKs apart from what I've read in this thread, so any help or guidance you can offer is much appreciated!
By experience I tend to find the Ancients pretty uselss tbh. His solo profile keeps making him separated from the rest of the GKs. The Paladins I would equip with either Halberds or Dual Falchions.
The HQ really depends on how many points you are willing to spend, our best HQs are Draigo and Grand Master on a Dreadknight which are fairly expensive. I find Librarians a decent mid tier. Otherwise if you are short on points the Brotherhood Champion is a decent solo, there is a techmarine too that can help your Raven Gaurd though can't recall if he can repair non-GK stuff when he is run in a GK detachment
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/01/25 14:38:01
GuardStrider wrote: What the consensus about Castellan Crowe? I do really like his fluff especially after reading his novels so I have been thinking of getting his model, but his profille is uh, underwhelming. His only two good points is being a cheap HQ and could be good against cheap low save tarpits.
He's waste of points, but is that important enough to make you not buy his awesome model?
Crowe is towards the bottom of our barrel, yes. But it's worth mentioning he's probably a better pick than his D6 smite counterpart: the 140 pt. Purifiers.
If you give him Hammerhand (which you absolutely should) Crowe's extra attack rule starts to REALLY kick-in against fragile screen units and various troop squads. At S4 AP0, that's really all he can do in this meta -- kill screeners. But to do that you'll need to spend 1CP and deep strike him, then hope he makes his charge.
If feeling crazy you can make him warlord for an additional +1 to wound rolls. But IMO you would rather have a warlord with aura to re-roll charge rolls.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/25 14:54:42
Porphyrius wrote: I found a deal at my FLGS store that was too good to pass up on, and now I find myself in possession of a box of Paladins/Terminators (for $20!). I'm not really interested in creating an entire Grey Knights army, but I do like the idea of a psychic-heavy detachment that I can deep strike down my opponent's throat.
With all that in mind, could you help me with some ideas for tactics/loadout? I was thinking I'd construct them as paladins, a paladin ancient, and a paladin apothecary for a vanguard detachment. I'm not sure what HQ I should get in that case, any ideas? How should I equip the paladins (it seems like dual falchions and maybe a hammer on the paragon is generally the way to go)? Any ideas for some marine combos that synergize well? I play Raven Guard and was thinking about using SftS to infiltrate a fairly large unit of sternguard to clear out some chaff and pave the way for the GK deep strike on turn 2. I'm concerned that they'll just be focus-fired down, but I suppose in that case it means that the rest of my army is attacking with impunity.
I know nothing at all about GKs apart from what I've read in this thread, so any help or guidance you can offer is much appreciated!
By experience I tend to find the Ancients pretty uselss tbh. His solo profile keeps making him separated from the rest of the GKs. The Paladins I would equip with either Halberds or Dual Falchions.
The HQ really depends on how many points you are willing to spend, our best HQs are Draigo and Grand Master on a Dreadknight which are fairly expensive. I find Librarians a decent mid tier. Otherwise if you are short on points the Brotherhood Champion is a decent solo, there is a techmarine too that can help your Raven Gaurd though can't recall if he can repair non-GK stuff when he is run in a GK detachment
Thanks for the tips! That's too bad to hear about the ancient; I like the model, but I was thinking it may be difficult to keep him in range of the rest of the detachment. I think I'll probably assemble the box with magnets, so perhaps I'll see how he does. If I'm not going to run him, could you suggest another elite unit to fill out the detachment? Maybe I should consider 2 squads of 3 paladins and an apothecary?
Regarding HQ, I'd ideally like to keep the detachment under 600 points. I know that's a tall order for a faction like Grey Knights, but I want to be able to load up on Raven Guard goodies as much as I can. I had been thinking of taking a Grand Master or possibly Voldus to make use of the auras. Unfortunately a GK techmarine can only heal GK vehicles, so that won't really work for me. I had been considering a chaplain: good idea, bad idea...?
Stratagems:
Psychic Onslaught and Precog for GMDKs, Communion for Vortex, Dark Age Weapons for Hellblasters, Hellfire Round for Heavy Bolter
Thanks for posting. Good luck in LVO!
One question: What is "Precog" for GMDKs?
Oh whoops, I meant Prognosticators, the +1 invuln strat. Somehow I was thinking of last edition's psychic power Precognition.
Thanks for clarifying. But why not give him Sanctuary instead of using the 2CP strategem??
Bc I only play Matched, and the other one definitely has Sanctuary up all the time.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Marmatag wrote: Elric you should absolutely run a banner with that many overchargers in one place.
This is a great idea that I hadn't considered. However, I'm struggling to find the points for it. Looks like I'd have to drop some GMDK guns, which I feel unwilling to do.....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/25 15:22:02
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21
Bc I only play Matched, and the other one definitely has Sanctuary up all the time.
That makes sense. I see you're running 3x GMNDKs. Is the one without 3++ invuln intended to be a sacrificial lamb? Or do you hold him in reinforcements until one GMNDK has died?
Edit: Oh holy wow just realized "HEED THE PROGNOSTICARS" is used "at the start of your turn". Does this mean it can be used multiple times?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/01/25 15:34:07
Porphyrius wrote: I found a deal at my FLGS store that was too good to pass up on, and now I find myself in possession of a box of Paladins/Terminators (for $20!). I'm not really interested in creating an entire Grey Knights army, but I do like the idea of a psychic-heavy detachment that I can deep strike down my opponent's throat.
With all that in mind, could you help me with some ideas for tactics/loadout? I was thinking I'd construct them as paladins, a paladin ancient, and a paladin apothecary for a vanguard detachment. I'm not sure what HQ I should get in that case, any ideas? How should I equip the paladins (it seems like dual falchions and maybe a hammer on the paragon is generally the way to go)? Any ideas for some marine combos that synergize well? I play Raven Guard and was thinking about using SftS to infiltrate a fairly large unit of sternguard to clear out some chaff and pave the way for the GK deep strike on turn 2. I'm concerned that they'll just be focus-fired down, but I suppose in that case it means that the rest of my army is attacking with impunity.
I know nothing at all about GKs apart from what I've read in this thread, so any help or guidance you can offer is much appreciated!
By experience I tend to find the Ancients pretty uselss tbh. His solo profile keeps making him separated from the rest of the GKs. The Paladins I would equip with either Halberds or Dual Falchions.
The HQ really depends on how many points you are willing to spend, our best HQs are Draigo and Grand Master on a Dreadknight which are fairly expensive. I find Librarians a decent mid tier. Otherwise if you are short on points the Brotherhood Champion is a decent solo, there is a techmarine too that can help your Raven Gaurd though can't recall if he can repair non-GK stuff when he is run in a GK detachment
Thanks for the tips! That's too bad to hear about the ancient; I like the model, but I was thinking it may be difficult to keep him in range of the rest of the detachment. I think I'll probably assemble the box with magnets, so perhaps I'll see how he does. If I'm not going to run him, could you suggest another elite unit to fill out the detachment? Maybe I should consider 2 squads of 3 paladins and an apothecary?
Regarding HQ, I'd ideally like to keep the detachment under 600 points. I know that's a tall order for a faction like Grey Knights, but I want to be able to load up on Raven Guard goodies as much as I can. I had been thinking of taking a Grand Master or possibly Voldus to make use of the auras. Unfortunately a GK techmarine can only heal GK vehicles, so that won't really work for me. I had been considering a chaplain: good idea, bad idea...?
To be honest I have no idea, I don't think I've ever seen a GK player running a chaplain.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/25 16:26:47
If you're only using 1 HQ then go with Draigo. Yes, he's more expensive than Voldus but he adds so much more to your combat capability of your other GKs.
Edit: Oh holy wow just realized "HEED THE PROGNOSTICARS" is used "at the start of your turn". Does this mean it can be used multiple times?
I would think not. A player turn is split into 6 phases, and that's it, there's nothing else in a turn. In the rules "start of your turn" isn't explicitly defined, which means it's synonymous with "start of Move phase" since that's the very first thing to happen in your turn.
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21
Edit: Oh holy wow just realized "HEED THE PROGNOSTICARS" is used "at the start of your turn". Does this mean it can be used multiple times?
I would think not. A player turn is split into 6 phases, and that's it, there's nothing else in a turn. In the rules "start of your turn" isn't explicitly defined, which means it's synonymous with "start of Move phase" since that's the very first thing to happen in your turn.
Ehh I'm not sure about this. It probably needs an FAQ, but technically there may be some dead space before your Movement Phase officially starts. If you're playing a mission that uses Tactical Objectives, for example, those are generated "at the start of each of your turns" (BRBpg. 224), not at the beginning of your movement phase.
Further proof -- why are there GK stratagems that happen explicitly "at the start of any of your Movement phases", such as Tactical Flexibility (GK Codex pg. 98). Why else would GW word those differently than stratagems like Heed The Prognosticars that happen "at the start of your turn" (GK Codex pg. 99).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/25 19:28:27
It makes quite a significant difference either way. A 3x GMDK Supreme command detachment can all be given a 3++ if Prognosticars can be used more than once. How do existing FAQs for other stratagems interact with this if at all?
Fragmentize wrote: Hey everyone,
if I was to start a GK army where would be the best place to start?
I thought GK would have a Start Collecting box but isn't the case :(
I want to start around 750pt~1000pts.
Any suggestions would be great since I don't know what to purchase first!
Hi mate, Welcome.
The backbones of most GK lists are Dreadknights driven by Grandmasters (GMDK)as your HQ's and Strike Squads as troops. Pretty hard to go wrong with those options to start and then build the rest of your army around what you like the look of, be it Terminators/Paladins, or perhaps Stormravens or Interceptors. All of those are effective enough choices, the rest of the codex can be more challenging to make effective in battle.
As I say to anyone starting a new army, think of it long term. The effectiveness of individual units and GK as a whole will change as rules, datasheets, and editions change. So your only safe bet is to go for units you like the look of.
Maybe it's in order to use an other Pyschic power? Or to give Sanctuary to an other GMDK, having to of them in 3++?
Aye makes sense. He's running 3x GM NDK though. Assuming he's alpha striking with all of them, it makes target priority rather easy for the opponent's dark reapers to shoot whichever doesn't have a +1 invuln buff on it... UNLESS the Prognosticars strategem is usable more than once simultaneously; hence our above discussion.
If I was to run let's say a Battalion Detachment in an 1000point list, and was running a Grand Master in Dreadknight- what are some viable choices for the 2nd HQ slot?
I don't want to run another GM in Dreadknight or any of the special characters like Drago or Voldus (due to in-house rules with playgroup- we don't do special characters in >2000 point armiess).
Is Brother-Captain and putting him with a Strike Squad for Smite-fest any decent?
For MSU Strike squads, what is the optimal weapon layout?
I heard that Falchions are better than swords but out of the special weapons, which one is the most popular one?
Incinerators? Psycannons? Psilencer?
Finally, are Terminators really that bad? Are there any strategies that can work with Terminators?
If I was to run let's say a Battalion Detachment in an 1000point list, and was running a Grand Master in Dreadknight- what are some viable choices for the 2nd HQ slot?
I don't want to run another GM in Dreadknight or any of the special characters like Drago or Voldus (due to in-house rules with playgroup- we don't do special characters in >2000 point armiess).
Is Brother-Captain and putting him with a Strike Squad for Smite-fest any decent?
For MSU Strike squads, what is the optimal weapon layout?
I heard that Falchions are better than swords but out of the special weapons, which one is the most popular one?
Incinerators? Psycannons? Psilencer?
Finally, are Terminators really that bad? Are there any strategies that can work with Terminators?
Thanks guys
Brother-Captain is fine. Another option is Librarian, but I don't think they do much. Brotherhood Champion doesn't buff your dudes but is cheap. He needs a transport though, since he cannot teleport strike. For Strikes Falchions and one Psilencer. Psilencer is the best out of our special weapons because of amount of shots and 1d3 damage.
I agree on most of what has been said. Falchions is the most efficient in CC, and Psilencer has a decent amount of Dakka, especially if you have some rerolls.
About the HQs, yeah why not a Brother-Captain. You can also try the Brotherhood Champion, he's not that bad for his points.
Concerning the Terminators, the biggest problem is that it's nearly always better to have to Strike Squads instead of one Terminator Squad (more targets, more smites, more tactical flexibility...)
I'd agree about the Bro Champ. Cheapest choice in the book makes him desirable, and his "I still get to hit!" after death is a bit of a shocker to some people. It means he can still do something after being charged by a DP (for example).
A Chaplin is also an ok choice, since you'll have lots of folks in melee range and he packs a decent punch.
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21
I know the brotherhood champ and Crowe aren't particularly impressive on their own, but what do you think of them if they use the Teleportarium stratagem so they can deep strike?
daedalus wrote: I know the brotherhood champ and Crowe aren't particularly impressive on their own, but what do you think of them if they use the Teleportarium stratagem so they can deep strike?
Crowe still sucks even with that but the Brotherhood Champ can do some work. He'll definitely hurt SOMETHING. Might only be one thing though so make sure it's a good one.
My current list currently only has a single GMDK (since I only own one), and have been wondering what is the best way to deploy it on turn one.
1.Pay the Teleporter and have a guaranteed deepstrike on the 1st turn
2.Don't pay the Teleporter and use Gate of Infinity to teleport him, this way I can use Heed the Prognasticators on him turn 1 and have a 2+ invulnerable GMDK right from the start, however this means there is a small chance of gate not going off.
He is the biggest target I have on turn 1 (barring Draigo but they can't fire against him) so I assume they will unload everything they have on him on turn 1. However if Gate doesn't go off, I would have wasted 2cp to Heed on him for nothing, probably have most of my opponents army out of range and since he is my warlord, the First to the Fray won't be helping my other deep striking units.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/09 18:00:50
Since I'm a new GK player I really don't feel comfortable giving advice. With that said, I prefer to T-port. If I don't get to go first then my opponent can't shoot at him and I can place him where I need him after my opponents move. If I go first then I can put him where I need him and deep strike some troops nearby. The troops should be able to cause enough concern that the DK shouldn't be shot at too much.
2500 pts Raven Guard, painted 
I may run him as a Brotherhood Champion when I need a cheap 
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