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 luke1705 wrote:
Yep barebones detachment. I don't think they add a whole ton to my army; while the guns of AM do

I wouldn't mind considering a min GSC detachment for CA distraction upfield. Too much CP loss for my liking.
But that list is similar to something that I have been working out too.

They have not clarified if we can take 2 models of Tyrant Guard , and not min 3 yet right?

 Astmeister wrote:
Thanks for the report!
For me personally the list is really too much AM and too little Tyranids. It might be that the AM parts add a lot to your army, but at what cost? You are barely playing Tyranids anymore....

But this is just my personal preference.

Trust me, I understand those feels. This is only my super competitive Nids list. Otherwise, I have no problem just running it down mid and saying "what are guns? I have plenty of claws!"

What I'd really like to try is an all Genestealer list. Like the one below:

Patriarch
Patriarch
Broodlord
Malanthrope

20 Nid Stealers
20 Nid Stealers
20 Nid Stealers
20 GSC Stealers
20 GSC Stealers

5 CP because I have exactly the wrong amount of HQ's RIP. If I wanted to make it more competitive, I'd forsake everything I believe in and grab a unit of Rippers to allow me to put the 4th HQ in a different detachment.

In anything except hammer and anvil, the Tyranid Stealers are surely charging turn 2, and the GSC units should both be looking at a 9" charge turn 1, or better if you rolled well. The CP to mitigate a poor roll is huge. If you have to use CP to re-roll cult ambush for 1 GSC unit, could you at that point opt to just keep the other unit in reserves to make sure you can use a re-roll on their cult ambush if need be? Although TBH if you get a good cult ambush roll, most of the time you're going to obliterate the screening unit, especially with a Patriarch in tow. So I think you almost always do 1 purestrain unit turn 1 and 1 unit turn 2


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Deshkar wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
Yep barebones detachment. I don't think they add a whole ton to my army; while the guns of AM do

I wouldn't mind considering a min GSC detachment for CA distraction upfield. Too much CP loss for my liking.
But that list is similar to something that I have been working out too.

They have not clarified if we can take 2 models of Tyrant Guard , and not min 3 yet right?

No FAQ yet, but I'm just using what they wrote in the matched play section. My assumption is that we get greater list-building flexibility when we use points. And that was the unit size in 7th so I doubt it'll be FAQ'd that the minimum unit size is 3 very much.

Bellow is Zande4 post. All credits to him for doing all the math. I am just adding dividing the cost of the unit to the number of dead models. I also updated the cost of the tyranofex as it closk in at 225 when you add in the powerfull limbs that are mandatory. Lastly I converted the squad of warriors with devourers into a new unit with gaints. They run the same numbers, only cheaper.


Some mathhammer for all.

*Note I used the +1 to hit modifier on all Barbed Strangler shots as it was assuming we were always shooting at +10 models.

The Horrors are crazy durable but they're also the only ones here without a way to bypass LD. Tyrannofex looks good on paper but he's all 18'' range and standing still is not going to be an option 70% of the time.

x2 Dakkafex with x4 Devourers each = 194 points

6.67 Conscripts per turn points per wound (ppw) 29,1
6.67 Ork Boys per turn ppw 29,1
5 Brimestone Horrors per turn ppw 38,8
3.33 Brimestone Horrors with Changeling buff per turn ppw 58,2
8.33 Kroot / Hounds / Gants per turn ppw 23,3
6.67 Poxwalkers per turn ppw 29,1

x2 Dakkafex with x4 Deathspitters each = 218 points

8.33 Conscripts per turn ppw 26,2
8 Ork Boys per turn ppw 27,2
5 Brimestone Horrors per turn ppw 43,6
3.33 Brimestone Horrors with Changeling buff per turn ppw 65,5
10 Kroot / Hounds / Gants per turn ppw 21,8
6.67 Poxwalkers per turn ppw 32,7

T-Fex w/ FBH & Stinger Salvo standing still = 225 points

11.11 Conscripts per turn ppw 20,2
13.78 Ork Boys per turn ppw 16,3
8 Brimestone Horrors per turn ppw 28,1
5.33 Brimestone Horrors with Changeling buff per turn ppw 42,2
13.78 Kroot / Hounds / Gants per turn ppw 16,3
10.67 Poxwalkers per turn ppw 21

T-Fex w/ FBH & Stinger Salvo having moved = 225 points

5.56 Conscripts per turn ppw 40,5
6.89 Ork Boys per turn ppw 32,6
4 Brimestone Horrors per turn ppw 56,2
2.67 Brimestone Horrors with Changeling buff per turn ppw 84,4
6.89 Kroot / Hounds / Gants per turn ppw 32,6
5.33 Poxwalkers per turn ppw 42

x9 Warriors with Devourers = 216 points

6 Conscripts per turn ppw 36
5.63 Ork Boys per turn ppw 38,4
4.5 Brimestone Horrors per turn ppw 48
3 Brimestone Horrors with Changeling buff per turn ppw 72
7.5 Kroot / Hounds / Gants per turn ppw 28,8
6 Poxwalkers per turn ppw 36

x6 Warriors with Devourers + x3 Warriors with Barbed Stranglers = 249 points

7.89 Conscripts per turn ppw 31,5
8.42 Ork Boys per turn ppw 29,6
5.33 Brimestone Horrors per turn ppw 46,7
3.75 Brimestone Horrors with Changeling buff per turn ppw 66,4
8.75 Kroot / Hounds / Gants per turn ppw 28,5
7.11 Poxwalkers per turn ppw 35

x9 Warriors with Deathspitters = 249 points

7.5 Conscripts per turn ppw 33,2
9 Ork Boys per turn ppw 27,7
4.5 Brimestone Horrors per turn ppw 55,3
3 Brimestone Horrors with Changeling buff per turn ppw 83
9 Kroot / Hounds / Gants per turn ppw 27,7
6 Poxwalkers per turn ppw 41,5

x6 Warriors with Deathspitters + x3 Warriors with Barbed Stranglers = 270 points ppw

8.89 Conscripts per turn ppw 30,4
10.67 Ork Boys per turn ppw 25,2
5.33 Brimestone Horrors per turn ppw 50,6
3.75 Brimestone Horrors with Changeling buff per turn ppw 72
13.50 Kroot / Hounds / Gants per turn ppw 20
7.11 Poxwalkers per turn ppw 38

x9 Termagaunts with Dea = 108 points

6 Conscripts per turn ppw 18
5.63 Ork Boys per turn ppw 19,8
4.5 Brimestone Horrors per turn ppw 24
3 Brimestone Horrors with Changeling buff per turn ppw 36
7.5 Kroot / Hounds / Gants per turn ppw 14,4
6 Poxwalkers per turn ppw 18

To summarice, the cheapest for killing
Conscripts : Termagaunts Devourers 18
Ork Boys : T-Fex w/ FBH & Stinger Salvo standing stil 16,3
Brimestone Horrors : Termagaunt Devourers 24
Brimestone Horrors with Changeling buff : Termagaunt Devourers 36
Kroot / Hounds / Gants : Termagaunt Devourers 14,4
Poxwalkers : Termagaunt Devourers 18

So for the most bang for your buck, field a lot of Termagaunts with Deathspitters. I have not factored inn any re-rolls from the living amunition rule. Brood progenitor from a Tervigon might also make them better. Deliver them by Trygon, Trygon prime, walk them bare or walk them with a Tervigon to reinforce them. That being said, they are also the easiest to kill on our list, costing 12 point for T3 1W.

Really suprisingly the Tyranofex standing stil comes in first place on Ork Boys, and second place on all entries bar the brimestone horrors. But only when it stands stil. When it walks it is very expensive per wound. Could be good with adrenal glands for a first turn run, or with a swarmlord for a giant advancement turn 1.

Second place are the carnifexes. But they each edge out a little bit vs each other depending on the targets.

The warriors came out really expensive. But they do offer a few things the rest of the contesters do not provide. They have synapse. You need synapse somewhere in your army. They are the only once in this test with guns at range 36. That could mean shooting in turn 1 and 2 to soften up some targets. Lastly they are much better in mellee then any of ther other contestents if you slap on some boneswords or other mellee weapons in there.

Depending on points values there will come a point where a tyranid prime will be justefied by the mathhammer if you go the warriors rout. At what point that is, I do not know.

I have not taken into acount how hard there is to kill any of these.

PS: If anybody wanne do more math, please copy paste the numbers so we have one place with all the numbers for quick reference.

 killerpenguin wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Awesome work dude. Add Devilgants please

Correct me if I'm wrong. Did some mathhammer of the top of my head here.

30 gants x 3 shots = 90 shots - 45 hits - 22,5 wounds - 7,5 saves - 15 dead - 240 pts

That is nice. However, you did not say what enemy you were caculating against here. From the save I assume GEQ, but the wound roll says MEQ. So you are basically using Necron Warriors here. Is this intentional? I am pretty sure though that you did not take the living ammunition special rule into account...

My caclutation says:
GEQ = 23.33 dead
MEQ = 8.75 dead

Presumably it would be better to drop a troop of 15 Devgaunts + 15 Fleshborer-Gaunts anyway.

Astmeister, look at the post above yours. You can se devilgaunts there.

 killerpenguin wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Awesome work dude. Add Devilgants please

Correct me if I'm wrong. Did some mathhammer of the top of my head here.

30 gants x 3 shots = 90 shots - 45 hits - 22,5 wounds - 7,5 saves - 15 dead - 240 pts

Factor in the reroll 1's to hit and wound and that should be up to 18 dead. Clearly our best shooting options. Sadly...This guys are a pain in the but to build in paint lots of :(. I currently only have 60. I think that nember probably needs to be closer to 120. Oh and devs are str 4 - so a lot more than that. Post above says 23.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
gaunts can't take deathspitter correct? Just devs?

 Niiai wrote:
Astmeister, look at the post above yours. You can se devilgaunts there.

So did you take Devourers or Deathspitters? Gaunts cannot take Deathspitters and they are clearly better. So you might have to do it again.
Also the Devilgaunts loose a lot of firepower, when models are lost. This doesn't matter of course, when you deep strike in. However, a Carnifex with 2x Deathspitters has S7, which can be huge against Rhinos and such.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 luke1705 wrote:


Trust me, I understand those feels. This is only my super competitive Nids list. Otherwise, I have no problem just running it down mid and saying "what are guns? I have plenty of claws!"

What I'd really like to try is an all Genestealer list. Like the one below:

Patriarch
Patriarch
Broodlord
Malanthrope

20 Nid Stealers
20 Nid Stealers
20 Nid Stealers
20 GSC Stealers
20 GSC Stealers

5 CP because I have exactly the wrong amount of HQ's RIP. If I wanted to make it more competitive, I'd forsake everything I believe in and grab a unit of Rippers to allow me to put the 4th HQ in a different detachment.

In anything except hammer and anvil, the Tyranid Stealers are surely charging turn 2, and the GSC units should both be looking at a 9" charge turn 1, or better if you rolled well. The CP to mitigate a poor roll is huge. If you have to use CP to re-roll cult ambush for 1 GSC unit, could you at that point opt to just keep the other unit in reserves to make sure you can use a re-roll on their cult ambush if need be? Although TBH if you get a good cult ambush roll, most of the time you're going to obliterate the screening unit, especially with a Patriarch in tow. So I think you almost always do 1 purestrain unit turn 1 and 1 unit turn 2

That is of course much more tyranid. ;-) But I personally prefer to use TAC lists, which have a healthy mixture of shooting and claws. The above list is too one dimensional for me, but that also depends if you like to just rush to your opponent and slaughter everything.

I would play something like this:

Brigade Detachment

Hive Tyrant with wings (1) - 196pts
1 Hive Tyrant: Monstrous rending claws,Two deathspitter with slimer maggots,Prehensile pincer tail,Adrenal glands

Broodlord (1) - 162pts
1 Broodlord: Monstrous rending claws

Malanthrope (1) - 90pts
1 Malanthrope: Grasping tail

Tyranid Warriors (3) - 94pts
2 Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Lashwhip + Bonesword, Adrenal Glands
1 Tyranid Warrior: Venom cannon, Lashwhip + Bonesword, Adrenal Glands

Genestealers (20) - 240pts
20 Genestealer: Rending claws

Genestealers (12) - 192pts
12 Genestealer: Rending claws, Toxin Sacs

Termagants (30) - 120pts
30 Termagant: Fleshborer

Hormagaunts (10) - 60pts
10 Hormagaunt, Adrenal Glands

Ripper Swarms (3) - 33pts

Lictor (1) - 45pts
1 Lictor: Flesh hooks,Grasping talons,Rending claws

Lictor (1) - 45pts
1 Lictor: Flesh hooks,Grasping talons,Rending claws

Hive Guard (3) - 144pts
3 Hive Guard: Impaler cannon

Mucolid Spores (1) - 20pts
1 Mucolid Spore

Mucolid Spores (1) - 20pts
1 Mucolid Spore

Mucolid Spores (1) - 20pts
1 Mucolid Spore

Exocrine (1) - 228pts
1 Exocrine: Bio plasmic cannon,Powerful limbs

Trygon (1) - 188pts
1 Trygon: Bio-electric pulse,Three massive scything talons,Toxinspike,Adrenal glands, Toxin sacs

Stone Crusher Carnifexes (1) - 104pts
1 Stone Crusher Carnifex: Two pairs of wrecker claws, thresher scythe, bioplasma

12 Command Points

The list is far from being competitive, but you and your opponent will probably have fun in a beer & pretzel game. Which I like most anyway...

I can't really decipher that maths its a bit messy. But seems that Devilgants are #1 shooting unit, which doesn't surprise me. TFexs are a real brick of wounds and shooting rolled up in one, but they can't take Trygon tunnels and pods are expensive, so they are probably worse honestly.


I think I'm just going to load up on Devilgants tbh they are legit

2k points
Supreme command
HQ
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.


Batallion
HQ
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.
Malanthrope

Troops
30x Terms - 16x dev, 14x fleshbore
30x Terms - 16x dev, 14x fleshbore
30x Terms - 16x dev, 14x fleshbore
30x Terms - 16x dev, 14x fleshbore
4x Warriors Deathspitters, Fleshhooks, Adrenal, Rending claws.

Fixed - added malanthrope in exchange for the venomthropes. (I converted one of these guys out of a flying hive tail, some exocrine box stuff, venomthrope tenticles, and a carnifex body. It's pretty cool)

 Xenomancers wrote:
2k points
Supreme command
HQ
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.
Venomthropes

Batallion
HQ
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.

Troops
30x Terms - 15x dev, 15x fleshbore
30x Terms - 15x dev, 15x fleshbore
30x Terms - 15x dev, 15x fleshbore
30x Terms - 15x dev, 15x fleshbore
4x Warriors Deathspitters, Fleshhooks, Adrenal, Rending claws.

looks really nice but be aware that Venomthropes dont shroud the Flyrants, you'll need to cap a warrior and pick up a Malanthrope for that

 SHUPPET wrote:
I can't really decipher that maths its a bit messy. But seems that Devilgants are #1 shooting unit, which doesn't surprise me. TFexs are a real brick of wounds and shooting rolled up in one, but they can't take Trygon tunnels and pods are expensive, so they are probably worse honestly.


I think I'm just going to load up on Devilgants tbh they are legit

The maths on Devilgant (or Deathspittergants?) is a bit wrong, but the picture stays the same. They are very good against everything. But they also need a delivery mechanism, because they die very easily, thus loose firepower and are not even very cheap. But since most people will take a Trygon (Prime) anyway, I think they are a good idea.

60 more termagants are a nice delivery method for 30 devilgants. 20 fleshborers and 10 devilgaunts per unit gives a lot of survivability while adding some more firepower and 60 bodies.
240 points are a lot, that's for sure, but they do a great job.

I personally went with 20 spinefists, because i don't find the fleshborers "alien" enough for my nids, but in the end they work the same.

For a cheap version go with a 15-15 composition, now you are paying only 120 points.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
2k points
Supreme command
HQ
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.
Venomthropes

Batallion
HQ
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.

Troops
30x Terms - 15x dev, 15x fleshbore
30x Terms - 15x dev, 15x fleshbore
30x Terms - 15x dev, 15x fleshbore
30x Terms - 15x dev, 15x fleshbore
4x Warriors Deathspitters, Fleshhooks, Adrenal, Rending claws.

looks really nice but be aware that Venomthropes dont shroud the Flyrants, you'll need to cap a warrior and pick up a Malanthrope for that

Humm - i did know that but I also thought supreme command required an elite choice - it doesn't so a Mapplethorpe is probably a better choice. Though the wording of it's shrouding mechnic specifies modles. How would that affect a unit of termagaunts? The termagaunts are the ones that really need the -1 to hit because they only 6+ saves. I'd love for everyunit to have it turn 1 though!

 Xenomancers wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
2k points
Supreme command
HQ
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.
Venomthropes

Batallion
HQ
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.

Troops
30x Terms - 15x dev, 15x fleshbore
30x Terms - 15x dev, 15x fleshbore
30x Terms - 15x dev, 15x fleshbore
30x Terms - 15x dev, 15x fleshbore
4x Warriors Deathspitters, Fleshhooks, Adrenal, Rending claws.

looks really nice but be aware that Venomthropes dont shroud the Flyrants, you'll need to cap a warrior and pick up a Malanthrope for that

Humm - i did know that but I also thought supreme command required an elite choice - it doesn't so a Mapplethorpe is probably a better choice. Though the wording of it's shrouding mechnic specifies modles. How would that affect a unit of termagaunts? The termagaunts are the ones that really need the -1 to hit because they only 6+ saves. I'd love for everyunit to have it turn 1 though!

It has already been discussed by several playtesters of 8th edition that this is surely a mistake by FW and they will change it. Because the rules of 8th do not account for hitting models in a unit individually, so the text based on models hitting on -1 does not make sense.
tl;dr They mean units!

I've been reading through this thread alot, but i haven't found a conclusion on the GEQ screen problem. How do we clear them? Trygon and devilgants?

 killerpenguin wrote:
I've been reading through this thread alot, but i haven't found a conclusion on the GEQ screen problem. How do we clear them? Trygon and devilgants?

They are the best bet against cheap mass infantry. However the combo costs a lot and the trygon will probably stand in the way, where he cannot attack anything usefull. The Devgaunts do 23 damage in one turn, which might be enough to get through 30 conscripts, but 40+ might be problematic since they can still screen very well.

More Dakka is just possible by adding AM to your Tyranid army, which is a no-go for me at least.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe a Tyranocyte with stranglethorne canons is even better. It is cheaper than a trygon and can kill infantry also very well.
A Tyrannocyte with Stranglethorne does 4.86 damage on GEQ. Not so bad and certainly better than the Trygon, while cheaper. However, you will loose 10 gants due to the limited transport capability of the pod. Hmmm...

Edit: I updated the numbers on the gaunts now. I had messed up the names of devourers and deathspitters. I just came back with 8th edition so I am a bit rusty.

I am really supriced the tyranofex is pulling it's weight. I expected it to be a real dud. It was also one of the models I bought before taking a break. I glued mine up just yesterday with the flamer one. 1d6 autohits S7 AP-1 D3 wounds sounded good vs rhinoes and marines. But perhaps It should have been the dakka gun now that the numbers are in.

Termagaunts seems to be king, with tyranofex and carnifexes on 2nd place. And warriors trailing behind unless you use the synapse/range/or close combat potensial somehow.

How is the drop pod for shooting at crowds? With the barbed strangler it can deliver a tyranofex.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
2k points
Supreme command
HQ
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.
Venomthropes

Batallion
HQ
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.
Flyrant - Claws-Heavy Venom-Adrenal-Toxin.

Troops
30x Terms - 15x dev, 15x fleshbore
30x Terms - 15x dev, 15x fleshbore
30x Terms - 15x dev, 15x fleshbore
30x Terms - 15x dev, 15x fleshbore
4x Warriors Deathspitters, Fleshhooks, Adrenal, Rending claws.

looks really nice but be aware that Venomthropes dont shroud the Flyrants, you'll need to cap a warrior and pick up a Malanthrope for that

Funny. My warning would have been "looks good but be aware that the venomthropes can be targeted, so you'll need to pick up a Malanthrope for that


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Termagants probably are our best bet for cheap dakka, but for clearing out screens you'll need to bring a pod, or play at a disadvantage by keeping your dudes in reserve for a turn or two. The pod itself isn't bad at that, but it gets expensive.

FYI I don't have a good solution for this, hence why I turned to guard. Tbh, I think our best best is cult ambushing neophytes....wait can any squads still take all hand flamers?

All Hand flamers is only possible for Hybrids and Metamorphs, but not for the Neophytes. They can just have normal 2 flamers.

Hmm so the hand flamers are d3 autohits and only 6" range. I think a lasgun or an autogun (literally the same profile) is the way to go. You average as many hits as there are dudes in the squad on almost every CA roll, and you can use a CP re-roll to mitigate a bad roll if need be. That's .066 dead guardsmen per point spent on neophytes. Even though the devilguants have more shots, they cost almost twice as much, resulting in only .049 dead guardsmen per point spent on devilguants. This math assumes the neophytes are within 12". Furthermore, neophytes have 2 things going for you:

1) even if they go second, they're in reserve so your opponent can't kill them
2) they pop up and have the ability to be in rapid fire range (of in range at all) a lot more than the devilguants will be, especially if we're talking about turn 1.

I could attempt to factor in the likelihood that your CA roll would result in you being within 12" of the enemy, but it's a bit of a crapshoot because the 1 and 2 results require you to make assumptions about the opponent's deployment. Suffice to say that with a re-roll, your efficiency will still be at or above the devilguant numbers and without a re-roll, you might drop a little bit below them.

But the thing that sells it for me is that pretty consistently (extremely consistently with only 1 unit) you will be able to rapid fire on the turn you cult ambush in. The devilgaunts would say the opposite: "on turn 1, its extremely unlikely that we'll be able to shoot at a screening unit, and if we can, it's probably hitting on 5's"

In conclusion, I'll leave you with the number you want: if you're shooting at a squad of 30 GEQ (a nice beefy screening unit) you'll need to bring 90 neophytes to kill it to the man on turn 1. If you're looking to just blow a giant hole in it to assault through....I'd probably bring 60

List I'm settling around:

1999 pts:

Flyrant, Rending Claws, AG, TS
Flyrant, Rending Claws, AG, TS
Flyrant, Rending Claws, AG, TS
Flyrant, Rending Claws, AG, TS

30x Termagants w/ Devourers
20x Genestealers
3x Rippers

9x Raveners w/ Devourers
9x Raveners w/ Devourers

Mawloc
Trygon


Flyrants go after the heaviest things on the field, Raveners and Trygon deploy to threaten Infantry. Trygon carries Termagants but maybe Genestealers if the enemy is light on things to kill them. There's nearly 50 Devourers in there so thats a decent chunk of alpha and Raveners should do numbers on Infantry at least until Stealers get there. Mawloc can force things not to clump and hopefully just disrupt the enemy. Gonna have to see how it plays but it feels like it should be capable. I'm staying away from Stonecrushers until their rules get clarified.

Shuppet how is the math of raveners with spinefists insteasd of devourers? While only S3 instead of 4 and no AP, you do get 1 more shot with them. And you can shoot in CC.

From a rules perspective, can the tyrant put wounds on other models because he is a character? I thought being an MC prevented that?

 Niiai wrote:
Shuppet how is the math of raveners with spinefists insteasd of devourers? While only S3 instead of 4 and no AP, you do get 1 more shot with them. And you can shoot in CC.

From a rules perspective, can the tyrant put wounds on other models because he is a character? I thought being an MC prevented that?

Spinefists might be even better, I might just try that.





I meant they may not be able to target the Hive Tyrants for being characters. Does being an MC prevent that?

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Shuppet how is the math of raveners with spinefists insteasd of devourers? While only S3 instead of 4 and no AP, you do get 1 more shot with them. And you can shoot in CC.

From a rules perspective, can the tyrant put wounds on other models because he is a character? I thought being an MC prevented that?

Spinefists might be even better, I might just try that.





I meant they may not be able to target the Hive Tyrants for being characters. Does being an MC prevent that?

They have too many wounds. 10 or more ignores the restriction on shooting characters.

Has anyone done a biovore vs hive guard comparison? 3 mortal wounds at 108 points vs 6 cover ignoring S8 ap-2 d3 wounds that don't need LOS (144 points).

I'm not sure how you assess which unit to bring.

C1tric wrote:
Has anyone done a biovore vs hive guard comparison? 3 mortal wounds at 108 points vs 6 cover ignoring S8 ap-2 d3 wounds that don't need LOS (144 points).

I'm not sure how you assess which unit to bring.

I would argue that is impossible to calculate, because a lot of what Biovore's bring is beyond simple math. Biovore unit getting charged is likely to create its own barrier preventing the charge. Biovores missing cause deep-strike blockers, and speed-bumps. They do more than wound, and I think people haven't fully figured them out quite yet. I have a feeling they'll be this edition's "Lictor Shame" where someone unlocks the mystery and throws people for a loop at an event.

If you wanne calculate biovores just do averadge wounds on the once who hit.

Then take a seperate one if all of the misses alsp makes a wound.

Then you have minimum and maximum averadge.

Then do regular hivegiards.

I would also like so see how the tesla hiveguards work out. I think they might be a hidden gem. Some other armies ran mathhammer on the tesla weapons and became posetive.

 Niiai wrote:
If you wanne calculate biovores just do averadge wounds on the once who hit.

Then take a seperate one if all of the misses alsp makes a wound.

Then you have minimum and maximum averadge.

Then do regular hivegiards.

I would also like so see how the tesla hiveguards work out. I think they might be a hidden gem. Some other armies ran mathhammer on the tesla weapons and became posetive.

Like I said, Biovores are a weird one those, where they are more than their wounds. Misses create new tactical opportunities or provide other difficult to quantify benefits.

Fragile wrote:


They have too many wounds. 10 or more ignores the restriction on shooting characters.

thanks, corrected it

You can stil do it:

Chance to hit, standing stil ((0,5)*(((1*0)+(4*1)+(6*2))/6))=0,5 mortal wounds per biovore shot.

If you miss you will do an averadge 0,5 mortal wounds.*

*Mind you I assume that the missed spore mine actualy makes it into damage range. I find this very unlikly considering you can split fire, and the charge face is after the shooting phase.

So 36 points for 0,5 mortal wounds = 72 damage for 1 mortal wound on average. 36 damage for one mortal wound if the spore mine that misses makes it into 'mellee'.

And now you just calculate that vs hive guards. Easy. (Hint, the biovores do not come out very well I belive.)