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actually forget it


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Deshkar wrote:


That being said, I am considering the usage of Swarmlord + regular genes (hive commander combo) along with 2x Purestrain (1 Patriarch & Primus) , for a serious turn one assault. I prefer having more reliability in getting my 60 genestealer turn one charges off.

And what fire support would you have for that list out of curiosity?

I think we should all calm down a bit. A lot of postings here sound really aggressive and that is absolutely unnecessary.

My only problem is that it seems that everyone is just not talking about the units and tactics of Hive Fleet Tyranids units and abilities anymore. So it seems that I have to read through a lot of things, I do not care about.

So I will make a new thread to only discuss Tyranids. However, I feel like there will be a huge loss of information, because we have to almost start over again in the new thread. Maybe this will not work, since nobody will want to follow two threads about this. But let's try....

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
I wish people would stop saying GSC are part of Tyranids, they have a separate codex

Guess what Grey Knights aren't part of Space Marines Codex, because they are in a DIFFERENT codex even though they are both MARINES and both in power armour.

Different codex, how hard is that to get? There is actually a thread on the first page of the 40k Tactics section called competitive Tyranids.

But I can field GSC + Tyranids in the same battle forged army, right?

I don't think I can field Tau and Eldar in the same battle forged army, for the same reason..

So someone who was considering to field a funky looking Rockcrusher, some screening termagants and a Imperial Valkyrie to transport a Magus (is that possible, transport wise?) - surely it would be reasonable to bring that up here.

Razerous wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
I wish people would stop saying GSC are part of Tyranids, they have a separate codex

Guess what Grey Knights aren't part of Space Marines Codex, because they are in a DIFFERENT codex even though they are both MARINES and both in power armour.

Different codex, how hard is that to get? There is actually a thread on the first page of the 40k Tactics section called competitive Tyranids.

But I can field GSC + Tyranids in the same battle forged army, right?

I don't think I can field Tau and Eldar in the same battle forged army, for the same reason..

So someone who was considering to field a funky looking Rockcrusher, some screening termagants and a Imperial Valkyrie to transport a Magus (is that possible, transport wise?) - surely it would be reasonable to bring that up here.

Absolutely. If you erased all tyranids from that list and put all AM instead? Then no.

SideshowLucifer wrote:
You don't have a way to really deal with assault armies that can tie your units up and make sure they can't shoot. Too many eggs in one basket I think.

The idea was more or less to take a page from the guard's book and use the Termagants to screen off the big guns from assault (90 bodies is a big footprint), then if charged either keep feeding the offender Termagants via Tervigons or else withdraw and shoot them to death. As long as even 1 Termagant remains alive, it can be brought back up to near full strength next turn, so ideally they can just attrition down softer melee threats.

 luke1705 wrote:
90 Termagants would beg to disagree with you on that point. My thinking is I think the list has too much durability and too little ability to actually kill things. Especially hordes, although the termagants help some there.

This is a fair point. What would you suggest to add some extra bite? I did a bit of inventory and found I'm 3 Hive Guard short from what I thought I had (might just be misplaced...), so I have 140-ish points to play with.

Razerous wrote:


[...] and a Imperial Valkyrie to transport a Magus (is that possible, transport wise?)

Nope, the transport ability still limits it to units with the AM keyword which the Magnus doesn't have. All the same, it is better to have him hiding with his fellows anyway, his Spiritual Leader aura is quite a powerful tool against opposing psykers and he can pass wounds off to grunts if needed.

Razerous wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
I wish people would stop saying GSC are part of Tyranids, they have a separate codex

Guess what Grey Knights aren't part of Space Marines Codex, because they are in a DIFFERENT codex even though they are both MARINES and both in power armour.

Different codex, how hard is that to get? There is actually a thread on the first page of the 40k Tactics section called competitive Tyranids.

But I can field GSC + Tyranids in the same battle forged army, right?

I don't think I can field Tau and Eldar in the same battle forged army, for the same reason..

So someone who was considering to field a funky looking Rockcrusher, some screening termagants and a Imperial Valkyrie to transport a Magus (is that possible, transport wise?) - surely it would be reasonable to bring that up here.

It's absolutely fine to branch out with topics, we can discuss lists from ANY army in here and it's relevance to Tyranids, just like we have been doing with the Stormraven builds, and will do for more builds in future. GSC and AM builds even without Nids included has relevant to classic Tyranids Bugs builds in that we can literally choose from any unit in their army, and literally use even the same models. There is no strict rules in here - if you feel something is relevant to Nids in any manner, feel free to discuss it!

Jaq Draco lives wrote:


Absolutely. If you erased all tyranids from that list and put all AM instead? Then no.

There's been literally one post to fit that description to date. And how many arguing about it now? I think it's time to drop it, man, this is disrupting the thread far more than anything else has even come close to.
We have multiple posts in here containing lists with no GSC, Nids, or AM, just Ultramarines, and that's contributing far more than these arguments are. If it's relevant to Nids its relevant to Nids. No further rules need apply, nor attempt to be enforced by you.

Deshkar wrote:


That being said, I am considering the usage of Swarmlord + regular genes (hive commander combo) along with 2x Purestrain (1 Patriarch & Primus) , for a serious turn one assault. I prefer having more reliability in getting my 60 genestealer turn one charges off.

that sounds brutal. But you are doing it because you think Swarmlord is a more reliable way to make it to turn one combat than GSC ambush options, so that you get there more often? Wouldn't seeing that combo just give your opponent's more options to play around it, and at the cost of 300 pts? I mean, if you're already running GSC not sure if Swarmlord is worth it for units that can already ambush, maybe pushing a Dima or a Heirodule up there with them might be something to consider?

So I opened a new thread to simply discuss tactics about the Hive Fleet Tyranids:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/731670.page

I am not sure this will work out. We might split the Tyranid players and the more active members here are apparently all prefering the idea of this competitive thread.
We will see...

 SHUPPET wrote:

Razerous wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
I wish people would stop saying GSC are part of Tyranids, they have a separate codex

Guess what Grey Knights aren't part of Space Marines Codex, because they are in a DIFFERENT codex even though they are both MARINES and both in power armour.

Different codex, how hard is that to get? There is actually a thread on the first page of the 40k Tactics section called competitive Tyranids.

But I can field GSC + Tyranids in the same battle forged army, right?

I don't think I can field Tau and Eldar in the same battle forged army, for the same reason..

So someone who was considering to field a funky looking Rockcrusher, some screening termagants and a Imperial Valkyrie to transport a Magus (is that possible, transport wise?) - surely it would be reasonable to bring that up here.

It's absolutely fine to branch out with topics, we can discuss lists from ANY army in here and it's relevance to Tyranids, just like we have been doing with the Stormraven builds, and will do for more builds in future. GSC and AM builds even without Nids included has relevant to classic Tyranids Bugs builds in that we can literally choose from any unit in their army, and literally use even the same models. There is no strict rules in here - if you feel something is relevant to Nids in any manner, feel free to discuss it!

Jaq Draco lives wrote:


Absolutely. If you erased all tyranids from that list and put all AM instead? Then no.

There's been literally one post to fit that description to date. And how many arguing about it now? I think it's time to drop it, man, this is disrupting the thread far more than anything else has even come close to.
We have multiple posts in here containing lists with no GSC, Nids, or AM, just Ultramarines, and that's contributing far more than these arguments are. If it's relevant to Nids its relevant to Nids. No further rules need apply, nor attempt to be enforced by you.

You are the one keeping me posting by simply gaking on me every time I make a post so you drop it and I will but I will damn well reply to someone posting to me. But I am allowed to reply to that and if you don't like it you can go and fellate a pig for all I care because you don't get to stop me.

Gents, please keep in mind that Rule Number One around here is Be Polite. Thanks!

@Jaq Draco live

You are almost solely derailing this thread and completely disregarding rule #1

This is more off topic then GSC talk could ever be.

You're not going to stop anyone talking about Nids + GSC + AM if they want to in this thread.

@Astmeister As you said, You don't want to talk about it. Others do. You can skim over the post if they're not relevant to you. This isn't Twitch Chat with 100s of post a second, this thread has gained 3 pages in 3 days. It's not hard to keep up with.

For the love of all that is holy can we please drop this petty nonsense and get back to talking about actual gameplay.

Best way to get back on topic is to ignore the off topic stuff I've found. Conversation will drive itself.

So here's a question for the chat: anyone have any Tournaments they're gearing up for? I'm personally practicing for the ATC (American Team Championships) in under two weeks. Lists are due this Saturday, and they are using the recent FAQ so I had to do a list overhaul to cram as many purestrain Genestealers in as I could! Ended up with 3 large units (20/18/18) because I just couldn't quite justify dropping the 10 Devourers I keep on my gant screen for emergency anti infantry. Got my first game in with it yesterday and the Purestrains ran over a Brimstone space daemon list. Used Talons and a Patriarch to hit on 2+ rerollable and just drowned him in buckets of wounds!

Razerous wrote:


So someone who was considering to field a funky looking Rockcrusher, some screening termagants and a Imperial Valkyrie to transport a Magus (is that possible, transport wise?) - surely it would be reasonable to bring that up here.

Nah you can't do the transport trickery. They knew what they were doing when they wrote the keywords. GSC models don't have the Astra Militarum keyword, which is what you need to ride in a Valkyrie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jifel wrote:
Best way to get back on topic is to ignore the off topic stuff I've found. Conversation will drive itself.

So here's a question for the chat: anyone have any Tournaments they're gearing up for? I'm personally practicing for the ATC (American Team Championships) in under two weeks. Lists are due this Saturday, and they are using the recent FAQ so I had to do a list overhaul to cram as many purestrain Genestealers in as I could! Ended up with 3 large units (20/18/18) because I just couldn't quite justify dropping the 10 Devourers I keep on my gant screen for emergency anti infantry. Got my first game in with it yesterday and the Purestrains ran over a Brimstone space daemon list. Used Talons and a Patriarch to hit on 2+ rerollable and just drowned him in buckets of wounds!

Yep I've got 1 on the 22nd and 1 on the 30th. It is kind of crazy having to reorganize everything! Especially since I read the FAQ wrong when it first came out (thinking that purestrains were 12 ppm). I was still completely fine with that, so I re-did my list to accommodate 60 of them, only to find out that I can't read and they're 10 ppm!

It's an awesome problem to have haha, but it meant I got to re-do my list AGAIN! Man I need some time to playlets these things! And convert models...it's going to be a busy couple of weeks. What team are you playing on Jifel?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:
Gents, please keep in mind that Rule Number One around here is Be Polite. Thanks!

Totally off topic, but can I exalt everything about your profile?

There already exists a GC tactics thread. Sure this thread is good for AM+GC+HF, assuming HF is the main detachment, but if you are only going to talk about AM or GC or GC+AM, there are alread threads for those factions.

Requiet wrote:
I may be crazy but gsc has a big fat Tyranid keyword so more power to you guys. This is really enlightening and a lot of stuff I wouldn't have considered but could be really fun and an awesome conversion opportunity so I hope the discussion continues and thank you for tour contributions.

I'm hoping to pick up some guard from an old friend soon and had just intended to use them as spire guard for my 1k sons but now I have the opportunity for dual conversions for pure conversion purposes I wish I had an excuse to tyrranize(?) a renegade knight. Some capillary towers from his back/shoulders. Think with a decent conversion it could pass as a barbed or scything heirodule?

On that note I really haven't seen anything on the tactics for the super heavy nids. Can we get a discussion on those guys?

In my opinion I personally see the barbed heirodule as the better melee variant because its was stays the same and ironically the scything heirodule never misses shooting but its degrading was hurts.

I'm converting some malanthropes now and did a custom dimaecheron (though its a bit smol)

How do harridans play? I swear to god Ive always wanted one but just haven't convinced myself to save up for one yet.

Also Ive heard conflicting reports on the crusher fexes flail on gw they replace all attacks for it but there were people claiming that fw responded that its in addition to (fw hasn't answered any of my questions like the dimas typo on his weapon or the malanthropes)

Well, by fluff "House Mortimer(?)" is GSC infected...so you can convert, or just add one or more in. But I don't think there are rules to allow that right now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, gents...against my better judgment I'm going to chime in just this once. This thread has no need for purity police. Least of all from folks who otherwise don't add anything. I figure Any, and all talk about Nids, or any friend, or foe of Nids is what it's about.

Somebody made a new thread for Nids (only?) so if you don't like rough language, maybe that one'll be more plesant? (Dunno)

Glad to hear Nids are representing. I am hoping to be able to transport safely in the next few years, so I may be able to see a few Tournies myself! And that is exiting (to me )

 Zande4 wrote:
@Jaq Draco live

You are almost solely derailing this thread and completely disregarding rule #1

This is more off topic then GSC talk could ever be.

You're not going to stop anyone talking about Nids + GSC + AM if they want to in this thread.

@Astmeister As you said, You don't want to talk about it. Others do. You can skim over the post if they're not relevant to you. This isn't Twitch Chat with 100s of post a second, this thread has gained 3 pages in 3 days. It's not hard to keep up with.

For the love of all that is holy can we please drop this petty nonsense and get back to talking about actual gameplay.

I have as I literally just said I am only replying to others and also I have contributed on nids before in this thread - so yes I've dropped it if people stop having a go at me I definitely will get back on topic? So drop it is a deal.

Moving on...

Now there has been some more play, how are people finding unguided / no-synapse backfield units? Or if not, what are good options for this, warriors with a VC or BS?

Also how essential are a couple of ripper squads or how mobile do units need to be. With the initial Trygon tunnels, you get excellent deployment but then I feel it all slows down?

 Zande4 wrote:

Tier 1: Devilgants & Wyverns

Tier 2: Dakkafex

Tier 3: Tyrannofex & Warriors

Edited Wyverns to T6 from T8

What about Taurox Primes w/ 5 man Scions? How does that compare?

Razerous wrote:
Moving on...

Now there has been some more play, how are people finding unguided / no-synapse backfield units? Or if not, what are good options for this, warriors with a VC or BS?

Also how essential are a couple of ripper squads or how mobile do units need to be. With the initial Trygon tunnels, you get excellent deployment but then I feel it all slows down?

Rippers are 33p, low profile (easy to hide) and can come in mid game to steal objectives, to me (and someone else told me this earlier in the thread) a minimum of one unit is an autotake. I'm personally thinking 2 units.

 jifel wrote:
Best way to get back on topic is to ignore the off topic stuff I've found. Conversation will drive itself.

So here's a question for the chat: anyone have any Tournaments they're gearing up for? I'm personally practicing for the ATC (American Team Championships) in under two weeks. Lists are due this Saturday, and they are using the recent FAQ so I had to do a list overhaul to cram as many purestrain Genestealers in as I could! Ended up with 3 large units (20/18/18) because I just couldn't quite justify dropping the 10 Devourers I keep on my gant screen for emergency anti infantry. Got my first game in with it yesterday and the Purestrains ran over a Brimstone space daemon list. Used Talons and a Patriarch to hit on 2+ rerollable and just drowned him in buckets of wounds!

Wait...you actually have 56 genestealers modeled with scything talons lol :O

That's a good question actually. I already have 12 Genestealers with Scythes that I used to use for my Ygmarls. What is everyone doing about Scytals on stealers? Should I model more? I intend to finish the first twelve and bring it to twenty but I was thinking of doing an additional 20, maybe convert some of the spacehulk models to have talons.

Does anyone think this will be regrettable? I'm sitting on 85 stealers at present and intend to run 60-80 per battle but I'm worried the free talons will bite me in the bum once we get our codex or first chapter approved update...

I really like the idea of all 80 having talons for the flexibility of the matter. Re-rolling 1's just seems so much more preferable against the hordes where as my rending will always be used against other targets MEQ+

I'm still trying to find a good source of biovores as well, I'm really interested in owning at least six, right now I have 2 of the really old insect ones (I love these) and 1 of the newer but old metal biovore that looks more like an ork :/ I really don't like that model so I'm wondering if anyone knows a good place to get biovores of a different sculpt or somewhere I can find the old metal ones on the cheaper side. Does anyone have any type of 3rd party site they like for nids? I have a really cool zoan I got third party like a decade ago (When Doom first came out) but I cant remember where I got that anymore. Same goes for pyrovores and lictors if anyone knows a place.


Finally, how many CP is too many in your guys opinions? Our Minimum sized Brigade only costs 651 if you're not abusing the undersized units rule. I could happily fluff up 2 brigades and have 21 CP if I don't take any other detachments at a tourney level.

Cheapest brigade btw is:
3x GSC Acolyte Iconwards (I'd upgrade two of these to magus for one brigade and get good HQs in the second like a malanthrope or two and broodlords/patriarchs plus maybe a flyrant?)
6x ripper swarms is the obvious cheap route but I havent decided the GSC/HF genestealers yet or would change list to list I think but it does change if I'm dropping rippers or lictors/pyrovores if I go GSC). 12 Objective grabbers at 9 wounds each unit seems annoying at 33 points each but not particularly useful outside of that. Definitely take a squad of Termagants as well, I'm in love with these little bastards now.
3x Pyrovores (Or 9 points more for the lictors which I like more)
3x Mucolid spores
3x Biovores

Things I'd love to play with more, Trygon Prime. Cant imagine not bringing him but I want to try so many other things.
Exocrine (Gotta buy them though xD Just built my first Tyrannofex as well)
I want Zoans to be good but besides one apoc game I played against a Tau/Marine team up against 3k of my nids where they just really wanted those zoans dead it hasn't been the best unit. I really love how you'd think there would be little synergy in the army with a 3++ save but the venomthrope/Malan making it harder to hit is such a perfect bonus. I do wish the neurothrope brought back dead models like a few people thought it might but I strictly don't play that way.
Also built a custom Dimachaeron but haven't gotten to test it yet. With all of the stealers Ive been running I'm not sure if he still has a place for cost vs damage output

Requiet wrote:
That's a good question actually. I already have 12 Genestealers with Scythes that I used to use for my Ygmarls. What is everyone doing about Scytals on stealers? Should I model more? I intend to finish the first twelve and bring it to twenty but I was thinking of doing an additional 20, maybe convert some of the spacehulk models to have talons.

Does anyone think this will be regrettable? I'm sitting on 85 stealers at present and intend to run 60-80 per battle but I'm worried the free talons will bite me in the bum once we get our codex or first chapter approved update...

Don't forget that GW said they will be periodically updating the matched play points over time. So even if they bring out a new codex, they could re-adjust the points a year or less down the road.

 wyomingfox wrote:

Requiet wrote:
That's a good question actually. I already have 12 Genestealers with Scythes that I used to use for my Ygmarls. What is everyone doing about Scytals on stealers? Should I model more? I intend to finish the first twelve and bring it to twenty but I was thinking of doing an additional 20, maybe convert some of the spacehulk models to have talons.

Does anyone think this will be regrettable? I'm sitting on 85 stealers at present and intend to run 60-80 per battle but I'm worried the free talons will bite me in the bum once we get our codex or first chapter approved update...

Don't forget that GW said they will be periodically updating the matched play points over time. So even if they bring out a new codex, they could re-adjust the points a year or less down the road.

Thats exactly what I'm afraid of lol
Easy enough to do the conversion especially because I am turning all of my hormagaunts into termagants so I'll have the scythes but turning them back if its regrettable makes me shudder

Requiet wrote:
Also built a custom Dimachaeron but haven't gotten to test it yet. With all of the stealers Ive been running I'm not sure if he still has a place for cost vs damage output

Please share pics!!

Requiet wrote:

 wyomingfox wrote:

Requiet wrote:
That's a good question actually. I already have 12 Genestealers with Scythes that I used to use for my Ygmarls. What is everyone doing about Scytals on stealers? Should I model more? I intend to finish the first twelve and bring it to twenty but I was thinking of doing an additional 20, maybe convert some of the spacehulk models to have talons.

Does anyone think this will be regrettable? I'm sitting on 85 stealers at present and intend to run 60-80 per battle but I'm worried the free talons will bite me in the bum once we get our codex or first chapter approved update...

Don't forget that GW said they will be periodically updating the matched play points over time. So even if they bring out a new codex, they could re-adjust the points a year or less down the road.

Thats exactly what I'm afraid of lol
Easy enough to do the conversion especially because I am turning all of my hormagaunts into termagants so I'll have the scythes but turning them back if its regrettable makes me shudder

Unbalanced or not, I kinda liked being able to commit to an army and knowing the models weren't going to change for at least a couple of years. Really not interested in building something, crossing my fingers, and then just having it nerfed after a game or two because GW feels it's performing too well. I mean I'm all for a balanced game, but I think they needed to spend a little more time balancing at the start and not midway through the releases of army rules.

Requiet wrote:
That's a good question actually. I already have 12 Genestealers with Scythes that I used to use for my Ygmarls. What is everyone doing about Scytals on stealers? Should I model more? I intend to finish the first twelve and bring it to twenty but I was thinking of doing an additional 20, maybe convert some of the spacehulk models to have talons.

Personally I have mostly all RC genes, and I am not planning on re-doing any. This is largely because I think the reroll 1s is gonna be pretty marginal gains at best (except VS daemons), so it really doesn't seem worth the effort! That said, I will be picking up some more (intend to up my 76 to 100) and all those will be getting talons.

I'm still trying to find a good source of biovores as well, I'm really interested in owning at least six, right now I have 2 of the really old insect ones (I love these) and 1 of the newer but old metal biovore that looks more like an ork :/ I really don't like that model so I'm wondering if anyone knows a good place to get biovores of a different sculpt or somewhere I can find the old metal ones on the cheaper side.

I also loathe the current Biovore model, and would recommend using Hive/Tyrant Guard as conversion fodder:



This is a super easy conversion that I found elsewhere online - basically you take the Impaler, GS it to the top of the body then etch lines in to look more organic, then spruce up with a few spikes and the Shockcannon tubes. You use one of the armour pieces from TG to cover the arm joint that you have to clip off, and I used spare Gene arms as you can see.

Is it just me or are Malanthropes actually a poor unit?

They fit in like, very niche builds, as they are wasted points if most your army is deepstriking or even running up the board and leaving it behind with its 5" movespeed. Then for a walking wall Nids list they have just 3" spore range, so you can fit like half your units in range of it, which may as well be none for the opening turns.

The unit feels extremely overrated to me, and even in lists where it's relevant I think I'd prefer the points spent on Warriors / Tprime combo. Maybe with 6" range on the spore cloud I'd reconsider, as it stands I feel like people theorycrafted way too hard when the rules were first released.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Is it just me or are Malanthropes actually a poor unit?

They fit in like, very niche builds, as they are wasted points if most your army is deepstriking or even running up the board and leaving it behind with its 5" movespeed. Then for a walking wall Nids list they have just 3" spore range, so you can fit like half your units in range of it, which may as well be none for the opening turns.

The unit feels extremely overrated to me, and even in lists where it's relevant I think I'd prefer the points spent on Warriors / Tprime combo. Maybe with 6" range on the spore cloud I'd reconsider, as it stands I feel like people theorycrafted way too hard when the rules were first released.

I think it has a niche, but I also think that niche is in babysitting our backline of gunbeasts - Exocrines, Biovores and Hive Guard. It is still a very cheap HQ slot that allows for more CP (remains to be seen whether it stays as cheap) and packs both Synapse (which they need) and a -1 to hit buff on a character platform that is immune to fire. If I weren't taking any of them I'd think hard about including one, as whilst a nice anchor, if the rest of your force is at all mobile (which it generally is with us) then it will rapidly be outpaced. If you're mixing a gunline with fast elements though, still nice to be able to give everyone that -1 to hit buff on turn one!

I'd personally disagree on that, if you assume that you can apply it to units not models in range as their emails have indicated. I prefer the Mal as a bundle venomthrope/synapse that can't be shot and directly buffs our monsters as well such as the exocrine. With Nids having relatively few transport options we often have more units than the enemy and thus have to weather a turn of shooting. Through lines and premeasuring it isn't that hard to keep one model in 3" I've found.

My gunline list is 6x DeathFex, 2x Fleshborer TFex, 1x Exocrine, and then some Termagants and some Warriors.


And then they all outspeed it within a turn anyway.

Adding 100pts tax to a unit of Biovores and Exocrine who are already overcosted seems like you are going to be taking a much weaker army overall. Warriors are so nice in this edition its hard to justify Malanthrope's impact over Warriors, as cool as the Malanthrope is.

Giving it a points increase would be GW signing it's death certificate. However, there's no reason to believe that would be happening, seems to be a speculative rumour created by some players who overrated it from the jump.

Guess it boils down to army preference. My list is half gunline half advancing, and my DakkaGants and Exocrenes rarely advance past midfield. Malanthrope sits tight in the middle for a much cheaper synapse character that helps protect the monsters. I don't like my synapse being shot down turns 1/2 while my Stealers wait in reserve.

On minimum model count for a unit, I'm reading that to say that the power level games must use the unit count given on the data sheet and in points match games you use the unit count that aligns with the unit counts at the point limit section of the book. So venoms and zoans have a minimum model count of 3 (as stated in the points section and data slate) and the hive guard/tyrant guard can be taken in model counts of 3 for power level games (dataslate) and 1-3 for points games (points section of xenos book). is that not how it's being interpreted? sorry if this is off tyranid topic, I'm new and want to play fair.