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trasisi wrote:
On minimum model count for a unit, I'm reading that to say that the power level games must use the unit count given on the data sheet and in points match games you use the unit count that aligns with the unit counts at the point limit section of the book. So venoms and zoans have a minimum model count of 3 (as stated in the points section and data slate) and the hive guard/tyrant guard can be taken in model counts of 3 for power level games (dataslate) and 1-3 for points games (points section of xenos book). is that not how it's being interpreted? sorry if this is off tyranid topic, I'm new and want to play fair.

Tournaments are overruling the minimum model count rule, and most people are saying they wouldn't play against it in friendly matches. I'd say if you want to be SURE that you are playing fair - just bring the models needed to make the army you want to play.

I still haven't found a need nor desire to mix any allies in with my nids. The biggest hurdle I have is an abundance of fliers, and I think I can overcome that with more practice and list touch-ups.
Right now I just feel the army is so well rounded and can participate in nearly everything. It's a nice feeling.
All the local tournies disallow forgeworld stuff since they follow the ITC stuff and have a limit of basically one knight class unit, so sadly that means no malenthrope for me, but I run a lot of infantry so maybe ill give venomthropes a chance.

Not the answer I was expecting SHUPPET, but it's def the right advice. Thanks!

Razerous wrote:
Moving on...

Now there has been some more play, how are people finding unguided / no-synapse backfield units? Or if not, what are good options for this, warriors with a VC or BS?

Also how essential are a couple of ripper squads or how mobile do units need to be. With the initial Trygon tunnels, you get excellent deployment but then I feel it all slows down?

It really depends. I've found Genestealers to be exceedingly mobile. Average nearly a 12" move with the advance roll, and they can use charging, piling and consolidating to slingshot even further if the opponent has models in the area. Generally, if they're there waiting for you, you can get there pretty fast. Rippers are super solid now especially since Genestealers really should be Cult stealers IMO. You don't need the Trygon taxi and they're cheaper. So suddenly you need some more Nid troops. There are a lot worse ways to spend 99 points that 3 deep striking objective cappers/linebreaker units.


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 jifel wrote:
I'd personally disagree on that, if you assume that you can apply it to units not models in range as their emails have indicated. I prefer the Mal as a bundle venomthrope/synapse that can't be shot and directly buffs our monsters as well such as the exocrine. With Nids having relatively few transport options we often have more units than the enemy and thus have to weather a turn of shooting. Through lines and premeasuring it isn't that hard to keep one model in 3" I've found.

Well since you can't target models.....yeah you're good. And yes it's a very good unit. Definitely not niche. I don't think it's as auto take as it used to be, but it is very good still.


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trasisi wrote:
On minimum model count for a unit, I'm reading that to say that the power level games must use the unit count given on the data sheet and in points match games you use the unit count that aligns with the unit counts at the point limit section of the book. So venoms and zoans have a minimum model count of 3 (as stated in the points section and data slate) and the hive guard/tyrant guard can be taken in model counts of 3 for power level games (dataslate) and 1-3 for points games (points section of xenos book). is that not how it's being interpreted? sorry if this is off tyranid topic, I'm new and want to play fair.

This was answered in the FAQ. Regardless of which army composition rules you're using, hive guard and tyrant guard are 3-6 unit size.


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 SideshowLucifer wrote:
I still haven't found a need nor desire to mix any allies in with my nids. The biggest hurdle I have is an abundance of fliers, and I think I can overcome that with more practice and list touch-ups.
Right now I just feel the army is so well rounded and can participate in nearly everything. It's a nice feeling.
All the local tournies disallow forgeworld stuff since they follow the ITC stuff and have a limit of basically one knight class unit, so sadly that means no malenthrope for me, but I run a lot of infantry so maybe ill give venomthropes a chance.

Shame about disallowing Forge World! What do you mean "they follow the ITC stuff" though? The ITC doesn't disallow Forge World.

Would love to hear how you're dealing with flyers though. I think that's definitely one of our weaknesses. But you're right that Nids are very well rounded right now and capable of taking on quite a lot. It is a nice change

I've had 1 game with the Malanthrope and it was well worth the cost. Due to the size of it's base, it was pretty easy to get my entire army in it's aura on turn 1. After that, it managed to keep it's aura on dakkafexes as they moved up the field. Having a large base helps a lot. Consider that if a Carnifex and Malenthrope start side by side (Malanthrope sits back by half an inch so it can't be targeted), the Carnifex would have to move 5 or 6 inches faster than the Malanthrope for it's huge base to be out of range of the aura.

Probably unimportant but I did just get my reply from forgeworld that the dimas typo is a 6+ on the hit and that it wont be long for their faqs

Requiet wrote:
Probably unimportant but I did just get my reply from forgeworld that the dimas typo is a 6+ on the hit and that it wont be long for their faqs

Yeah the rule makes sense now but the weapon is still pretty much useless the other one is much better

 luke1705 wrote:

Razerous wrote:
Moving on...

Now there has been some more play, how are people finding unguided / no-synapse backfield units? Or if not, what are good options for this, warriors with a VC or BS?

Also how essential are a couple of ripper squads or how mobile do units need to be. With the initial Trygon tunnels, you get excellent deployment but then I feel it all slows down?

It really depends. I've found Genestealers to be exceedingly mobile. Average nearly a 12" move with the advance roll, and they can use charging, piling and consolidating to slingshot even further if the opponent has models in the area. Generally, if they're there waiting for you, you can get there pretty fast. Rippers are super solid now especially since Genestealers really should be Cult stealers IMO. You don't need the Trygon taxi and they're cheaper. So suddenly you need some more Nid troops. There are a lot worse ways to spend 99 points that 3 deep striking objective cappers/linebreaker units.


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 jifel wrote:
I'd personally disagree on that, if you assume that you can apply it to units not models in range as their emails have indicated. I prefer the Mal as a bundle venomthrope/synapse that can't be shot and directly buffs our monsters as well such as the exocrine. With Nids having relatively few transport options we often have more units than the enemy and thus have to weather a turn of shooting. Through lines and premeasuring it isn't that hard to keep one model in 3" I've found.

Well since you can't target models.....yeah you're good. And yes it's a very good unit. Definitely not niche. I don't think it's as auto take as it used to be, but it is very good still.


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trasisi wrote:
On minimum model count for a unit, I'm reading that to say that the power level games must use the unit count given on the data sheet and in points match games you use the unit count that aligns with the unit counts at the point limit section of the book. So venoms and zoans have a minimum model count of 3 (as stated in the points section and data slate) and the hive guard/tyrant guard can be taken in model counts of 3 for power level games (dataslate) and 1-3 for points games (points section of xenos book). is that not how it's being interpreted? sorry if this is off tyranid topic, I'm new and want to play fair.

This was answered in the FAQ. Regardless of which army composition rules you're using, hive guard and tyrant guard are 3-6 unit size.


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 SideshowLucifer wrote:
I still haven't found a need nor desire to mix any allies in with my nids. The biggest hurdle I have is an abundance of fliers, and I think I can overcome that with more practice and list touch-ups.
Right now I just feel the army is so well rounded and can participate in nearly everything. It's a nice feeling.
All the local tournies disallow forgeworld stuff since they follow the ITC stuff and have a limit of basically one knight class unit, so sadly that means no malenthrope for me, but I run a lot of infantry so maybe ill give venomthropes a chance.

Shame about disallowing Forge World! What do you mean "they follow the ITC stuff" though? The ITC doesn't disallow Forge World.

Would love to hear how you're dealing with flyers though. I think that's definitely one of our weaknesses. But you're right that Nids are very well rounded right now and capable of taking on quite a lot. It is a nice change

It's a temporary measure at the moment until the Forge World stuff gets cleared up and everyone gets used to the rules. It's something ITC is doing and has recommended.

Got my two hierodules today, and i am very happy about that .

Built the scythed hierodule in about 5 hour. Unfortunately the model had some issues as the tail misses one part and one arm was to short =(.


Had to model a bit of the arm with greenstuff so it fits on the model, hope it doesn't look bad. Also the model had lots of holes were the parts get glued together, so i also had to fill them with greenstuff.


Here are some pictures:

Hope it doesn't look that bad =(.

Nice photo of his butt. LOL


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Okay, to not just be silly.
I think it looks amazing, although I do not like the heirodules sooo much. Very good! I am now also tempted to buy one. But I could not decide whether to buy the barbed or the scythed. I think yours looks better.

Thanks mate, the scythed is also good i think.


Ordered both so i can play them together^^.

I've been finding Spore Mines kinda useful for Maelstrom to quickly grab an Objective. If they die, no biggy. Plus they can limit deep strikes or possibly even hold Objectives through numbers if you drop a few. Anyone else tried this?

So since we can agree for the most part that GSC is a part of the tyranid army until we get a codex can I ask why nobody has brought up the ridiculous 3rd GSC Psychic power? If a lot of us are already planning on running 60ish GSC-stealers and you should probably bring the patriarch then why haven't we discussed which powers are most beneficial? I've honestly only been considering GSC so I could get the anti-overwatch power after seeing the effects of my squads get torn up by Redeemer overwatch but holy living hells, str 5 and 5 attacks each hitting on a 2+?!

I was planning on bringing a squad of HF-stealers with brood for the catalyst but between saving 58 points for each grouping of GSC stealers with a patriarch I'm not sure I can validate that anymore... I can't even say that I need them as troops for brigades because that 58 points is nearly two MSUs of Rippers....

Now I'm planning on my entire Elites slot being GSCs, my Hq is looking like a Malanthrope, Flyrant, 2x Patriarchs and maybe a Magus for the overwatch power? I'm really having trouble choosing powers right now, maybe another flyrant instead of the magus and have those two floating around dropping catalyst since it hits all tyranids. The patriarchs could be 1/1 but I'm really loving the GSC Powers...

Can we get a serious discussion on what are the best powers to choose and optimal powers for each of our bug-wizards?

For me it seems Flyrant is an obvious - Catalyst and then preference (leaning towards the horror)
Tyrant I would say the same with exception for a list that wasn't too stealer heavy but still wanted to get into assault... maybe if I was running a carnifex list I'd consider it or Dimas/Heirodules then Onslaught might get chosen but I just can't justify it otherwise with stealers and broods coming with onslaught base.

Broodlords - Catalyst usually but if I'm playing matched I'd actually choose Horror.

Tervigon - Catalyst but in matched I would choose onslaught.

Magus - To me I feel like I'd only field it if I need a cheap HQ with powers. If I'm sitting on some patriarchs already I'd probably equip this guy with the Overwatch power but I could see me using mind control for shenanigans. Do you choose your power as a part of your list building in a tournament or do you choose at the start of the match? Id definitely be using mind control if I new I was facing flyer spam or knight spam.

Patriarchs - I think I have to go Might on this one... if I have a backup magus shutting down overwatch thats a relatively feasible 100 attacks, strength 5 that hit on 2s.... that just... wow.

What do you guys think?? Are you guys avoiding Psyker heavy lists in matched play? Smite just seems like a free shooting phase if you can't use anything else, and its average range for our army regardless.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
I've been finding Spore Mines kinda useful for Maelstrom to quickly grab an Objective. If they die, no biggy. Plus they can limit deep strikes or possibly even hold Objectives through numbers if you drop a few. Anyone else tried this?

Spore Mines can never hold, deny, or do anything to objectives. Its in their rules. :-p

You could sit some mines or a single objective really cheap to slow down deep strike objective thieves... A little area denial. Has anyone done the math on how many mines you would need to deny a certain amount of the board, lets say half of a 4x6?
A mucolid gets you 20 points for a 19" denial radius? Mucolids are the ones on termi bases right? I've been using the Hive crone mines as mucolids because I don't have any bigger ones, just about 40 regular spore mines (mostly the old metal ones).

3 spore mines would be what, three spread out by the two inch margin for 30 points gives you 26" across in denial?

Math being whatever the size of the base is (I'm just using 1" at a guess) plus the average 9" deployment restriction as the radius. I'm gonna go do some measurements actually and see what I come up with

GSC Powers are amazing, but Tyranid powers are great too. Grab somebody (Swarmy) who can cast Catalyst + The Horror, and grab 3 somebodies who can cast all of the GSC powers are you are really cooking with salami

Combining both disciplines has done wonders for me. I always have The Horror and Mass Hypnosis in my toolbox, although I have yet to actually cast the +1 S power. Catalysts uses are also obvious, right now in running 2 Magus, one Broodlord and one Patriarch.

Interesting that you opt to use The Horror over Catalyst in some scenarios...I wonder if the math supports that being better

Simply on the standard that you can only use one catalyst a turn in matched play and that makes the tyrant a much better carrier because its one of our only guys with more than one power. Their mobility makes them the ultimate delivery for the power where as things like assault troops might be better served with the more situational power (Since they'll be in combat those negatives can be used against the now closer enemies) and if you give the broodlord catalyst but its brood of genestealers has already been diminished you're getting less returns in my mind and that broodlord isn't going to race across the board to catalyze your zoanthropes now unless his entire brood was wiped out.


Also screwing around with the math and the way circles are used on a rectangular shape I would say 1 mucolid/spore mine unit per square foot is the easiest if slightly less efficient denial. I'm not a math major or anything so I'm not sure the optimal layout but from just placing models on a board and measuring out threat ranges it seems dead center of each square foot you drop in a mine or unit and effective shut off any deepstrikers until the mines are sniped out. This also guarantees character shielding until the mines are removed and any extra mines can be deployed on empty square footage of the openents side. To cover 1/2 of the board would be the price of a full sized HF Stealer unit. spore mines over mucolid if you're insane enough to clog the field so that flyers are forced to hover but at that rate I think gants are a much better proposition.

 luke1705 wrote:
Interesting that you opt to use The Horror over Catalyst in some scenarios...I wonder if the math supports that being better

Catalyst a friendly unit and your opponent can just choose to shoot everything else. Especially relevant when you have no obvious target and are building for redundancy, e.g. anything running Stealers.

Horror an enemy unit and there shooting suffers no matter where they point it.

Requiet wrote:
You could sit some mines or a single objective really cheap to slow down deep strike objective thieves... A little area denial. Has anyone done the math on how many mines you would need to deny a certain amount of the board, lets say half of a 4x6?
A mucolid gets you 20 points for a 19" denial radius? Mucolids are the ones on termi bases right? I've been using the Hive crone mines as mucolids because I don't have any bigger ones, just about 40 regular spore mines (mostly the old metal ones).

3 spore mines would be what, three spread out by the two inch margin for 30 points gives you 26" across in denial?

Math being whatever the size of the base is (I'm just using 1" at a guess) plus the average 9" deployment restriction as the radius. I'm gonna go do some measurements actually and see what I come up with

It seems like 3 Rippers would do this better for 3 more points. Also, Rippers can hold objectives while spore mines can not. And with 3 wounds each, Rippers are harder to remove... and they are faster. So basically, I don't see any reason to take Spore Mines on their own. At least not for the sole purpose of deep strike denial or objective denial.

Wait @luke1705, where in the FAQ does it state that Hive Guard and Tyrant Guard are 3-6 model units? On the points values page both of those units are listed as 1-3 models per unit and the FAQ doesn't mention that unit at all in the errata. Where are you seeing that? Is my Index out of date? I purchased through iBooks so I REALLY doubt that. I can send a pic of what I'm seeing but I don't see anywhere that those units have been updated from the Index. You seem to be talking about the venomthropes and zoanthropes.

Ok so the list I'm thinking of trying is:

Brigade Tyranids - 12 CP
HQ
Flyrant - Deathspitters/Rending Claws, Adrenal Glands - Catalyst, The Horror
Malanthrope
Magus - Mass Hypnosis
Patriarch - Might from Beyond (To test it out)
Patriarch - Mass Hypnosis

Elites -
3x 20-man Purestrain Genestealers with Scytals

Troops
5x 3-man Ripper Swarms
1x 30-man Termagant Swarm (20x Devilgaunts 10x Fleshborers)

Fast Attack -
3x 1-man Mucolids

Heavy Support-
2x 1-man Biovores
1x Tyrranofex - Rupture cannon


I'm thinking the Malanthrope Babysits the artillery slots, mucolids are more tax but can be used as a distraction or in my experience a forgotten little treat when you have 60 stealers on your front door.

Flyrant will pick out opportune targets when it isn't babysitting the Gants. Rippers come up as needed for objectives or to take an overwatch for someone else.

Stealers and Magus/Patriarchs march right down the center prefering not to split unless necessary. Magus drops the Hypnosis before a charge, one patriarch puts might on the larger squad other patriarch can smite the closest (Gave him Hypnosis but maybe the magus should have mind control? i just like the redundancy of two hypnosis) The tyrant will almost always be using his catalyst on the largest squad or most likely target and the horror on the most dangerous enemy (After I use mind control if I take it ;D)

I may drop the Tyrrano for a Trygon prime but I just have been underwhelmed with the trygons performance and I just got a brand new Tyrrano from a friend. May test him out as an Exocrine as well.

Any thoughts? I want to use so many other units but I'm just having a lot of trouble not using the stealers xD


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Zimko wrote:

Requiet wrote:
You could sit some mines or a single objective really cheap to slow down deep strike objective thieves... A little area denial. Has anyone done the math on how many mines you would need to deny a certain amount of the board, lets say half of a 4x6?
A mucolid gets you 20 points for a 19" denial radius? Mucolids are the ones on termi bases right? I've been using the Hive crone mines as mucolids because I don't have any bigger ones, just about 40 regular spore mines (mostly the old metal ones).

3 spore mines would be what, three spread out by the two inch margin for 30 points gives you 26" across in denial?

Math being whatever the size of the base is (I'm just using 1" at a guess) plus the average 9" deployment restriction as the radius. I'm gonna go do some measurements actually and see what I come up with

It seems like 3 Rippers would do this better for 3 more points. Also, Rippers can hold objectives while spore mines can not. And with 3 wounds each, Rippers are harder to remove... and they are faster. So basically, I don't see any reason to take Spore Mines on their own. At least not for the sole purpose of deep strike denial or objective denial.

Rippers would be a better choice on the objective side for sure, but also cost 165% the price of a single Mucolid so for 12 mucolids cost 240 where as the same number of ripper units clocks in at 396

trasisi wrote:
Wait @luke1705, where in the FAQ does it state that Hive Guard and Tyrant Guard are 3-6 model units? On the points values page both of those units are listed as 1-3 models per unit and the FAQ doesn't mention that unit at all in the errata. Where are you seeing that? Is my Index out of date? I purchased through iBooks so I REALLY doubt that. I can send a pic of what I'm seeing but I don't see anywhere that those units have been updated from the Index. You seem to be talking about the venomthropes and zoanthropes.

https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/40K_8th_ed_Update_Index_Xenos_2_ver_1.0.pdf

Page 2, lower left hand side

They haven't updated the index yet as far as I'm aware. Sometimes you have to re-download it to get it to update IIRC


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 SHUPPET wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
Interesting that you opt to use The Horror over Catalyst in some scenarios...I wonder if the math supports that being better

Catalyst a friendly unit and your opponent can just choose to shoot everything else. Especially relevant when you have no obvious target and are building for redundancy, e.g. anything running Stealers.

Horror an enemy unit and there shooting suffers no matter where they point it.

Fair point. I did a little cursory math and it's pretty comparable in terms of durability increase if only 1 unit shoots at your unit.

Where Catalyst really shines is if a bunch of units are shooting/attacking your 1 catalyst'd unit.

Where The Horror really shines is if you don't really have a single important unit that would get focused down.

So I finally did some quick math on the Heirodules and I'm still backing that a Barbed is always the better option.

Barbed - WS 3+ with 5, 4, 3 attacks as he gets crippled vs
Scythe - WS 3+/7A, WS 4+/5A, and WS 5+/3A

Barbed gets on average 3 hits at full strength, 2.4 mid and 2 low
Scythe gets 4.6 Hits at full, 2.5 at mid and 1 at low

I'm playing under the assumption that that large of a model is going to be sniped to mid relatively quickly but until that point that only other difference between the models is their guns.

Barbed has a 48" Heavy6 with 2 extra strength VS
an 8" autohit Heavy2D6 at a lower strength. In my experience that range is going to mean that I'm getting 1-2 shooting phases before I charge and in that case I'm only likely to get 1 shot off with the flamer. If the model completes its job and its next target is across the board that flamer is still not getting used while he runs after it but the Barbed can boomboom on the way over. I just feel its a more versatile, reliable monster of the two.

I will concede that any list that is both going first and sporting a Swarmlord to slingshot these mofos up the board is going to favor the Scythed Heirodule but those are just my thoughts on those guys.

 luke1705 wrote:
Interesting that you opt to use The Horror over Catalyst in some scenarios...I wonder if the math supports that being better

Depends on how many threats my opponent has. Last game against a triple Baneblade chassis list, I used thehorror. That and Mass hypnosis debugged two tanks and I hammered the third. Against a recent Daemon army that was all MSU I took Catalyst, where protecting my forward unit from smite was more important than debuffing one of his 20 units. I have found that The Horror usually was more effective when I was running Swarmy and casting both. Ended up dropping him but theblessons learned tell me The Horror is the better choice more often than not. But, both have their place! Sadly I just can't justify any of the other Psykers for Nids tbh, not the way my list is constructed.

Requiet wrote:
Ok so the list I'm thinking of trying is:

Brigade Tyranids - 12 CP
HQ
Flyrant - Deathspitters/Rending Claws, Adrenal Glands - Catalyst, The Horror
Malanthrope
Magus - Mass Hypnosis
Patriarch - Might from Beyond (To test it out)
Patriarch - Mass Hypnosis

Elites -
3x 20-man Purestrain Genestealers with Scytals

Troops
5x 3-man Ripper Swarms
1x 30-man Termagant Swarm (20x Devilgaunts 10x Fleshborers)

Fast Attack -
3x 1-man Mucolids

Heavy Support-
2x 1-man Biovores
1x Tyrranofex - Rupture cannon


I'm thinking the Malanthrope Babysits the artillery slots, mucolids are more tax but can be used as a distraction or in my experience a forgotten little treat when you have 60 stealers on your front door.

Flyrant will pick out opportune targets when it isn't babysitting the Gants. Rippers come up as needed for objectives or to take an overwatch for someone else.

Stealers and Magus/Patriarchs march right down the center prefering not to split unless necessary. Magus drops the Hypnosis before a charge, one patriarch puts might on the larger squad other patriarch can smite the closest (Gave him Hypnosis but maybe the magus should have mind control? i just like the redundancy of two hypnosis) The tyrant will almost always be using his catalyst on the largest squad or most likely target and the horror on the most dangerous enemy (After I use mind control if I take it ;D)

I may drop the Tyrrano for a Trygon prime but I just have been underwhelmed with the trygons performance and I just got a brand new Tyrrano from a friend. May test him out as an Exocrine as well.

Any thoughts? I want to use so many other units but I'm just having a lot of trouble not using the stealers xD

GSC core looks really good.
Rupture Cannon TFex, and 2 Biovores, some of the least point efficient units in the dex and they are taking 100 pt Synapse tax on top of that? Your opponent just ignoring them will likely give him a points advantage, no way is that doing even close to 500pts of damage. Walking Tyrant, Mucolids, man what is this even doing to support your build? Just max out to 30 Devilgants and take a Trygon instead of the TFex like you are considering, and maybe make that CC Tyrant a Swarmlord instead so that you can push something else up real early to support that support that turn 1 assault like a Catalystic Dimachaeron or flock of Raveners. If you need more points to make this possible I'd drop a Patriach for an Iconward, you really want as many Stealers to make it to combat as possible and he can potentially help significantly there.


EDIT: didn't even realise this was a brigade. As Luke said, separate that. Ambush > Catalyst

Psykers are our Strength though. The ability to neuter big threats with Horror and Hynosis is a key to make up for lack of firepower. I ran a Psyker heavy list and beat a Stormraven / Robby G list yesterday. Mind Control from a Magus was crucial. First turn I mind controlled a Storm Raven to kill another Storm Raven and killed a Storm Talon outright. Then between Horror and Hypnosis and Malanthrope I was able to survive the storm of fire from the remainder of the ships.

Requiet wrote:
Ok so the list I'm thinking of trying is:

Be careful with mixing Tyranid and GSC units in the same detachment. I definitely do not think that doing so is worth losing cult ambush. You should still be able to get 7 CP at least from what you've outlined even if you separate all of the GSC units into their own detachment, and getting cult ambush on 60 Genestealers is game changing.

Ill toy around with the separate detachments and see how the ambush plays. For me its a win win if I do use them as GSC simply because its 40 points off each stealer unit and 18 off the broodlords. Im almost definitely going to switch back to the trygon but have to at least try out my shiny new toy lol.

And in my experience with the mucolids I nearly killed shadowsun, murdered two pathfinder teams and finished a stealth suit squad when he had it all on the second floor of a building and I walked two mines right under him while he was distracted with a deathleaper. It was delicious to see 40 points hit so hard

I really appreciate the feedback though