Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - The Great Devourer is Nigh

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**Lance845**

Timeshadow wrote:
Niiai wrote:
I have no firsthand experience with warriors. I am merly pointing out they are winning in some categories. If you also think you are putting to many eggs in one basket just keep 3 of them cheap. 9 aditional wounds for 60 points is not bad to defend your deathspitter/venom cannon/strangelthorn cannon and boneswords.

6 venom cannons can help your longrange with 36 range. Have a cheap HQ like the prime or malanthropes or both. Probably good when build around 36" ranged guns.

For 60 pts I can get 15 Termigaunts, good for bubble wrap and decent 12" shooting, 15 wounds or I could get 2 broods of 3 rippers to DS onto objectives for 36 pts,or I can get 5 Genestealers who have a 5+ inv are very fast and murder things in CC, all the 60 pts of warriors is good for is synapse and maby if an enemy tries to assault whatever they are babysitting they are ok at CC.

If I could equip 6 venomcannons or barbed stranglers in a squad of 6 Warriors they might be ok actually they would be good then 2 or 3 with just sything for some extra cheap wounds that would be a good 234 pts spent (6 VC/sything 3x dual sything) but only one big gun per 3 in squad so max of 3 and that's fairly pricy(though better than I thought ....I thought it was one per brood)

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lance845 wrote:
Warriors are great when you kit them cheaply but splurge on the biocanons. Then you use them as mid/back field synapse to support exocrines/biovores.

Shrikes would be wasted in that role.

If I'm gonna do a backfield gun blob I'm gonna use a malanthrope not warriors for the shroud.

The Malanthrope will sit back there doing nothing.

A warrior blob with a cannon or 2 can still contribute every turn and their generalist abilities will allow them to deal with threats as they approach/deep strike in.

I like Malanthropes. A lot. But sitting in the back alone is a massive waste.

**Timeshadow**

Lance845 wrote:
Timeshadow wrote:
Niiai wrote:
I have no firsthand experience with warriors. I am merly pointing out they are winning in some categories. If you also think you are putting to many eggs in one basket just keep 3 of them cheap. 9 aditional wounds for 60 points is not bad to defend your deathspitter/venom cannon/strangelthorn cannon and boneswords.

6 venom cannons can help your longrange with 36 range. Have a cheap HQ like the prime or malanthropes or both. Probably good when build around 36" ranged guns.

For 60 pts I can get 15 Termigaunts, good for bubble wrap and decent 12" shooting, 15 wounds or I could get 2 broods of 3 rippers to DS onto objectives for 36 pts,or I can get 5 Genestealers who have a 5+ inv are very fast and murder things in CC, all the 60 pts of warriors is good for is synapse and maby if an enemy tries to assault whatever they are babysitting they are ok at CC.

If I could equip 6 venomcannons or barbed stranglers in a squad of 6 Warriors they might be ok actually they would be good then 2 or 3 with just sything for some extra cheap wounds that would be a good 234 pts spent (6 VC/sything 3x dual sything) but only one big gun per 3 in squad so max of 3 and that's fairly pricy(though better than I thought ....I thought it was one per brood)

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lance845 wrote:
Warriors are great when you kit them cheaply but splurge on the biocanons. Then you use them as mid/back field synapse to support exocrines/biovores.

Shrikes would be wasted in that role.

If I'm gonna do a backfield gun blob I'm gonna use a malanthrope not warriors for the shroud.

The Malanthrope will sit back there doing nothing.

A warrior blob with a cannon or 2 can still contribute every turn and their generalist abilities will allow them to deal with threats as they approach/deep strike in.

I like Malanthropes. A lot. But sitting in the back alone is a massive waste.

Malanthropes are not sitting back alone they are babysitting a big blob of our guns(Biovores and Exocrines and Hive Guard) making them -1 to be hit. I would never leave a Melenthrope alone in the rear.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spoletta wrote:
Timeshadow wrote:
So do you think this is worth it: 656 pts
Tyranid Prime Deathspitter/Rending Claws
2 broods of 9 Warriors: 6x Deathspitter/Sything, 3x Barbed strangler/Sything.

This puts out on average 60 Str 5 -1 Rend shots within 18" and 6d6(21ave) shots at 36" that get +1 more to hit if target is 10+models all hitting on 3+(4+ with +1 due to prime)
Total of 54 warrior wounds plus the prime. all are completly immune to Ld shinanagins. not terrable for a mobile gun blob but would it likely get focused down due to it's bad (4+)Armor and ave(4) toughness.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Niiai wrote:
Warrior is stil better in the parts I pointed out, why do you put words in my mouth?

I didn't realize I was putting words into your mouth.....I was just discussing what I would do instead of using warriors most instances.

That's not how you use warriors. Warriors are meant to mix and match a lot.

Under other factions standards, warriors are exceptional troops. SM would kill to have something like warriors. They are cheap, reasonably dangerous, provide synapse and have a lot of customization. Warriors though are not shrikes and trying to do with warriors what you do with shrikes is the wrong approach. Shrikes are a strike force, so you equip them well for the task you need and then send them to do theyr job. Warriors are either objective sitters, or second line hitters. Being second line hitters means that you have to equip them to shrug off one turn of enemy fire, and when they get in melee they need to be able to take some hits.

This is how I intend to play my warriors in the next list:

9 warriors: 2x talons, 2x deathspitter and lashwip, 5x deathspitter and bonesword. Adrenals for all. This comes at 269, where the shrike equivalent would be 324, one less troop and one unit less with objective secured. This unit will hit the enemy lines on the second turn, while escorting my swarms of hormagaunts and termagants (usually 70-80 models) and being followed by the venomthropes and a prime (113 points). Taking them out usually is not an option, they are not easy to kill and most importantly they are not paying targets. Assuming that the first two guys go down due to some stray shot and overwatch, you are looking at 26 boneswords attacks that hit on 2+, and i'm not accounting for the prime attacks.

Shrikes cannot cover this role, because they are paying targets and they outpace my venomthropes.
Hitting fast and hard is not the only way to play 'nids, sure we are really good at alpha striking, but we are exceptional beta strikers. It is a completely different way of list building where the priority is not offering any obvious target, similar to the MTO lists of 6th/7th, and play for the turn 2/3 while throwing something at the enemy lines that disrupts the first and second turn firepower (like lictors or a trygon loaded with hormagaunts).

This I will have to think about..... I've been hoping to use warriors in an aggressive manner and I may have overlooked the fact of how they should be used.... as synergy with the rest of our gribbles. Looking at their stats (and comparing to genestealers) I keep thinking they will be easily focused off the table but you are right if sent forward in a blob of gribbles with the prime and venom/malan support they will likely make contact with the enemy and mess them up. I will have to try this out. I wish they had a +S claw option or something for anti armor

**Wakshaani**

See, I run Warriors with groups of 3, sporting two deathspitters and a venom cannon (only 2 pts more!), with either scything talons or rending claws. A couple of those per Tyranid Prime means I usually have around 12, grinding out firepower downrange while keeping everyone from breaking in morale. They can hold objectives, take objectives, and drive the horde forward.

They're dang useful.

**Timeshadow**

Wakshaani wrote:
See, I run Warriors with groups of 3, sporting two deathspitters and a venom cannon (only 2 pts more!), with either scything talons or rending claws. A couple of those per Tyranid Prime means I usually have around 12, grinding out firepower downrange while keeping everyone from breaking in morale. They can hold objectives, take objectives, and drive the horde forward.

They're dang useful.

For 85 pts each brood of 3 I feel like they are a bit over-costed on their own but as mentioned above I need to try to keep in mind that they are a forward utility unit rather than a specialist like our genestealers and Gaunts.

**N.I.B.**

adamsouza wrote:
I worked up a new 2K list with 21 Biovores. I'm hoping to have enough mortal wounds a round to delete almost any enemy model/unit in a turn.

21 Biovores would be ~ 10 mortal wounds to a unit per turn. Threatening to many units without FNP, but not hordes, and not even enough to deteriorate an Imperial Knight. Not sure I'd want to sink 756pts + synapse babysitting into that. Are you winning games with this?

Lance845 wrote:
Waaaghpower wrote:
Lance845 wrote:

It is also worth pointing out that those two Tervigons would definitely have died before he got a chance to use them, even if I didn't get above-average dice. I still had 16 Lascannon shots left to fire, half of which were heavily buffed, as well as 8 Autocannon shots with rerolls as well.

The Konar missons have been heavily favoring SM so far. Play the normal game. Konar is nonsense. Besides that, I never deploy my deepstrikers turn 1 anyway. It's almost always better to hang onto them. And it's pretty easy for a deepstriking trygon to reach melee the turn it arrives.

Hang onto reserves, ok. Unless you, for instance, desperately need to tie up 16 buffed Lascannons and 8 buffed Autocannons.

And if by pretty easy to reach melee you mean a ~50% chance to reach a screening unit, you'd be right. Then they fall back and lit up your Trygon. I feel all charging from reserve tactics are a red herring, except for Genestealers.

Luebbi wrote:
After an initial hype phase, my experience sees them somewhere near the bottom. I especially find the following things troublesome:

- few good ranged answers against heavy weaponry / tanks
I have three choices: Exocrines, Hive Guard and Tyrannofex. Tyrannofex gets 4 shots, only doing D6 damage when two in a row hit. Crap. Exocrine gets 12 shots with S7 AP -3 D2. Better, but to get that potential she cannot move. This means you basically have to deploy her in the open to hope for any kind of damage potential. So far, I tried fielding two of them with a termagant bubblewrap. But, if your enemy wins the initiative, most lists can easily shoot one or two T7 W12 3+ models off the table. Hive Guard are the last option, one I haven’t tried yet, but they only do D3 damage. Basically, I’m missing a lascannon equivalent that I can field in larger numbers.

- same problem against flyers
This is pure conjecture, since I haven’t played against flyer spam yet, but I think my only real answer here are Exocrines again (or winged hive tyrants), and they can get focused easily.

- and again, transports
If I can’t shoot transports, I have to kill them in melee. A savvy player will wait for me to bring my genestealers to bear against a useless rhino, then counterkill the stealers with whatever was in the transport.

- Reroll command bubbles
It seems everyone and their mother are bringing heavy weapons with rerolls. Tyranids don’t have that option. I’m only aware of the Warrior Prime giving Warriors rerolls, and some abilities giving rerolls on 1’s, but that’s about it.

Yesterday I played a game vs Chaos. My opponent had brought Abaddon with 3 Laser Predators, plus a crapton of Cultists and some other things he wanted to try. He deployed the tanks after I was completely done, then stole the initiative – with three tries, that’s actually pretty likely (we played with the chapter approved rule, so I got a +1 starting roll, he spent a CP to reroll his roll, then seized, then spent a CP to seize again, getting the 6). He used the stratagem that let his tanks wound and damage with +1 and shot my Exocrine and Tervigon off the board, with shots to spare. Also 15 Genestealers. Mind you, this was all stuff in a Malanthrope aura, which didn’t help at all. I basically started the 1850 point game 680 points down. It went as expected. I didn’t even get to any of the tanks due to his abundance of bubble wrapping. I messed up in deploying my Tervigon in LOS, but honestly didn’t expect him to shoot both guys off the table.

Next game, I guess I’m ditching the balanced approach and will try the following:
3x 20 genestealers, each with a broodlord
3x 20 termagants, with 11 devourers each
1x Malanthrope
1x Trygon

It sounds terrible. I will deploy everything except the Trygon and just hope that 120 troopers are enough to give most lists trouble, and only shock the Trygon in if I can get a tank in reach. If my opponent plays flyers, I’ll have the option to shake hands without deploying.

Sorry if this post is too salty, yesterday’s game was very off-putting.

+1. I too feel Tyranids are a bottom tier army atm.
I'd recommend you start using the ITC rules - no spending CPs to reroll 'before the game' rolls like placing objectives, chosing sides, deploying and seizing.

I hate to gamble with the Exocrine and pray to get first turn. There's no way around it if we want to have decent shooting, apart from Hive Guard Impaler Cannon spam. And many events ban Forgeworld units, so no Malanthrope aid around here.

I hate empty Rhinos blocking my cc units. How come our stupid T-fex is 243pts and a Razorback with twin-assault cannon 100pts? Makes no sense apart from skewing the game in favour of Imperial armies.

**SHUPPET**

Waaaghpower wrote:
Also: What units make up a 'good' Tyranid list? I hear Biovore spam is good. Anything besides that?

Nids have a lot of flexibility and versatility in unit choice nowadays, it's a great army for playing how you want to play, find a play style that suits you and you can find success with it in this Dex. That doesn't mean you don't lose half the time against an evenly matched player - you should be, you should even get stomped occasionally and vice versa, this is what a balanced army looks like in a game built around ring,min the learning phases of the edition.

I will say however mass Biovores do nothing but flop. They don't have the numbers to justify the points.

Waaaghpower wrote:

He had some-odd ninety shooty gants, a few Tervigons, a number of Exocrines, many Biovores, some medium sized units that I think were Warriors, some Hive Guard or something, five Zoanthropes, and Malanthropes as well as Venomthropes for armywide -1 To Hit coverage. (Can you tell that I don't play against Tyranids very often? I only really heard his list once as we were both setting up, so... Dunno many details, and wasn't too concerned about

Tervigon is the most over costed P.o.s in the Dex, it's approaching Swarmlord levels of points for a unit that haszero offensive impact and point for point is one of the thinnest units in the Dex. Add to that the stack of Zoanthropes, the Biovore spam, and multiple Thropes... The guy lost because he's playing a 2000 point army in a 3000 point game. He needs to build smarter, the niche/specialist units are to cover gaps, not to be taken open masse, you need to be throwing enough dice if you want to compete.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, on track with current topic, there is no doubt in my mind Warriors are better than Shrikes, and they are just a great unit in general. I run 5 but if I tweak they will be the first thing I add more of. Prime is an excellent HQ if you have a full unit, it's up there with Malanthrope if you do

**Resipsa131**

I'm a new player and bought a Tervigon to be my Warlord cornerstone HQ and I can't seem to get any value out of it. It takes up 13 PL and I feel committed to 18PL worth of termaguants if I run it. That's a 1/3rd of my power level in 100PL games.

I've tried to advance with it across the map. It draws fire and provides synapse, and eventually dies (this has been the best result). I've tried leaving it open but in cover on turn one, it draws fire and lets units get down field, I've tried hiding on a back objective but then all the things that shoot at it on turn one shoot at other things. My opponents simply ignore the termagaunts that throw out hundreds of shots but deal 2-5 wounds per round. I don't think you should play the Tervigon and termagaunts versus MEQ armies Broodlords and genestealers or even better Patriarchs and Genestealers seem to be the way to go.

Maybe against Astra Militarium and Sororitas they'd be better due to more wounds. Is that the consensus?

**Spoletta**

Resipsa131 wrote:
I'm a new player and bought a Tervigon to be my Warlord cornerstone HQ and I can't seem to get any value out of it. It takes up 13 PL and I feel committed to 18PL worth of termaguants if I run it. That's a 1/3rd of my power level in 100PL games.

I've tried to advance with it across the map. It draws fire and provides synapse, and eventually dies (this has been the best result). I've tried leaving it open but in cover on turn one, it draws fire and lets units get down field, I've tried hiding on a back objective but then all the things that shoot at it on turn one shoot at other things. My opponents simply ignore the termagaunts that throw out hundreds of shots but deal 2-5 wounds per round. I don't think you should play the Tervigon and termagaunts versus MEQ armies Broodlords and genestealers or even better Patriarchs and Genestealers seem to be the way to go.

Maybe against Astra Militarium and Sororitas they'd be better due to more wounds. Is that the consensus?

What weapons are you giving to your termagants? If you are not playing with 30 model strong units with 15-20 devourers each and the rest fleshborers, you are not getting the best out of your tervigon (which honestly is not that great to begin with, so you should help her however you can). 20 devourers rerolling 1's both on hit and wound can take down 7 marines per shooting phase (7PL), that's a steal for 9 PL. Be aggresive with them and take some venoms to help. Use some lictors to disrupt enemy heavy shooting (2PL each, really worth it). Just don't expect termagants to do what they shouldn't be doing, like taking down T8 vehicles, there are other tools for that.

**Resipsa131**

Spoletta wrote:
Resipsa131 wrote:
I'm a new player and bought a Tervigon to be my Warlord cornerstone HQ and I can't seem to get any value out of it. It takes up 13 PL and I feel committed to 18PL worth of termaguants if I run it. That's a 1/3rd of my power level in 100PL games.

I've tried to advance with it across the map. It draws fire and provides synapse, and eventually dies (this has been the best result). I've tried leaving it open but in cover on turn one, it draws fire and lets units get down field, I've tried hiding on a back objective but then all the things that shoot at it on turn one shoot at other things. My opponents simply ignore the termagaunts that throw out hundreds of shots but deal 2-5 wounds per round. I don't think you should play the Tervigon and termagaunts versus MEQ armies Broodlords and genestealers or even better Patriarchs and Genestealers seem to be the way to go.

Maybe against Astra Militarium and Sororitas they'd be better due to more wounds. Is that the consensus?

What weapons are you giving to your termagants? If you are not playing with 30 model strong units with 15-20 devourers each and the rest fleshborers, you are not getting the best out of your tervigon (which honestly is not that great to begin with, so you should help her however you can). 20 devourers rerolling 1's both on hit and wound can take down 7 marines per shooting phase (7PL), that's a steal for 9 PL. Be aggresive with them and take some venoms to help. Use some lictors to disrupt enemy heavy shooting (2PL each, really worth it). Just don't expect termagants to do what they shouldn't be doing, like taking down T8 vehicles, there are other tools for that.

I'm running my termagants in x2 30 model units 10 with fleshborers to replenish although I'm thinking about cutting it to 5 fleshborers per unit and the rest devilgants. My problem is that I never get to shoot MEQ outside of cover. The lack of any AP really cuts into the effectiveness of their volley of shots.

**Spoletta**

Maybe that you are too focused on ranged warfare. Nids like a balanced approach.

**pinecone77**

Resipsa131 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Resipsa131 wrote:
I'm a new player and bought a Tervigon to be my Warlord cornerstone HQ and I can't seem to get any value out of it. It takes up 13 PL and I feel committed to 18PL worth of termaguants if I run it. That's a 1/3rd of my power level in 100PL games.

I've tried to advance with it across the map. It draws fire and provides synapse, and eventually dies (this has been the best result). I've tried leaving it open but in cover on turn one, it draws fire and lets units get down field, I've tried hiding on a back objective but then all the things that shoot at it on turn one shoot at other things. My opponents simply ignore the termagaunts that throw out hundreds of shots but deal 2-5 wounds per round. I don't think you should play the Tervigon and termagaunts versus MEQ armies Broodlords and genestealers or even better Patriarchs and Genestealers seem to be the way to go.

Maybe against Astra Militarium and Sororitas they'd be better due to more wounds. Is that the consensus?

What weapons are you giving to your termagants? If you are not playing with 30 model strong units with 15-20 devourers each and the rest fleshborers, you are not getting the best out of your tervigon (which honestly is not that great to begin with, so you should help her however you can). 20 devourers rerolling 1's both on hit and wound can take down 7 marines per shooting phase (7PL), that's a steal for 9 PL. Be aggresive with them and take some venoms to help. Use some lictors to disrupt enemy heavy shooting (2PL each, really worth it). Just don't expect termagants to do what they shouldn't be doing, like taking down T8 vehicles, there are other tools for that.

I'm running my termagants in x2 30 model units 10 with fleshborers to replenish although I'm thinking about cutting it to 5 fleshborers per unit and the rest devilgants. My problem is that I never get to shoot MEQ outside of cover. The lack of any AP really cuts into the effectiveness of their volley of shots.

Well if you're tired of the Tervigon taking so much fire, maybe add in some distraction Carnifexen? They can even help with vehicles...

**SHUPPET**

Resipsa131 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Resipsa131 wrote:
I'm a new player and bought a Tervigon to be my Warlord cornerstone HQ and I can't seem to get any value out of it. It takes up 13 PL and I feel committed to 18PL worth of termaguants if I run it. That's a 1/3rd of my power level in 100PL games.

I've tried to advance with it across the map. It draws fire and provides synapse, and eventually dies (this has been the best result). I've tried leaving it open but in cover on turn one, it draws fire and lets units get down field, I've tried hiding on a back objective but then all the things that shoot at it on turn one shoot at other things. My opponents simply ignore the termagaunts that throw out hundreds of shots but deal 2-5 wounds per round. I don't think you should play the Tervigon and termagaunts versus MEQ armies Broodlords and genestealers or even better Patriarchs and Genestealers seem to be the way to go.

Maybe against Astra Militarium and Sororitas they'd be better due to more wounds. Is that the consensus?

What weapons are you giving to your termagants? If you are not playing with 30 model strong units with 15-20 devourers each and the rest fleshborers, you are not getting the best out of your tervigon (which honestly is not that great to begin with, so you should help her however you can). 20 devourers rerolling 1's both on hit and wound can take down 7 marines per shooting phase (7PL), that's a steal for 9 PL. Be aggresive with them and take some venoms to help. Use some lictors to disrupt enemy heavy shooting (2PL each, really worth it). Just don't expect termagants to do what they shouldn't be doing, like taking down T8 vehicles, there are other tools for that.

I'm running my termagants in x2 30 model units 10 with fleshborers to replenish although I'm thinking about cutting it to 5 fleshborers per unit and the rest devilgants. My problem is that I never get to shoot MEQ outside of cover. The lack of any AP really cuts into the effectiveness of their volley of shots.

You're going to struggle to get value out of the Tervigon. Hate to say it but it's a really poor unit, quite possibly the worst in the dex. That can be demoralizing to hear but this is one unit that I honestly don't think is ever worth using, GW have been balancing it on the side of caution after what happened in 5th, so as a result it's ridiculously overcosted. On the plus side it's probably not too hard to change to a Tyrannofex which is at least a playable/decent unit.

Resipsa131 wrote:I'm a new player and bought a Tervigon to be my Warlord cornerstone HQ and I can't seem to get any value out of it. It takes up 13 PL and I feel committed to 18PL worth of termaguants if I run it. That's a 1/3rd of my power level in 100PL games.

I've tried to advance with it across the map. It draws fire and provides synapse, and eventually dies (this has been the best result). I've tried leaving it open but in cover on turn one, it draws fire and lets units get down field, I've tried hiding on a back objective but then all the things that shoot at it on turn one shoot at other things. My opponents simply ignore the termagaunts that throw out hundreds of shots but deal 2-5 wounds per round. I don't think you should play the Tervigon and termagaunts versus MEQ armies Broodlords and genestealers or even better Patriarchs and Genestealers seem to be the way to go.

Maybe against Astra Militarium and Sororitas they'd be better due to more wounds. Is that the consensus?

if you are going to use it Just remember you can only respawn the ones with Fleshborers

**shogun**

SHUPPET wrote:

Nids have a lot of flexibility and versatility in unit choice nowadays, it's a great army for playing how you want to play, find a play style that suits you and you can find success with it in this Dex. That doesn't mean you don't lose half the time against an evenly matched player - you should be, you should even get stomped occasionally and vice versa, this is what a balanced army looks like in a game built around ring,min the learning phases of the edition.

Tyranids lose if the simply move towards the enemy with mediocre shooting. A nice "balanced" tyranid army loses in a competitive setting.

SHUPPET wrote:

I will say however mass Biovores do nothing but flop. They don't have the numbers to justify the points.

You are only looking at the biovores and not the complete army. You need to find the best way to make sure the floating mines can assault, so it's not only about shooting mines from afar. Also, the best thing about single spore mines floating around is the movement blocking.

My 24 biovores deal 12+ mortal wounds when the shoot and deploy another 12 mines floating around. Thats not nothing.

**SHUPPET**

shogun wrote:

You are only looking at the biovores and not the complete army. You need to find the best way to make sure the floating mines can assault, so it's not only about shooting mines from afar. Also, the best thing about single spore mines floating around is the movement blocking.

My 24 biovores deal 12+ mortal wounds when the shoot and deploy another 12 mines floating around. Thats not nothing.

12 wounds for 900 points is not good numbers lol. That's half your army. I'm not just looking at anything, the numbers are obviously subpar but I'm going from experience with Biovores. Spamming them is not a good idea in this edition and I'm yet to see any BR to even suggest otherwise.

I'm seeing a hell of a lot of Tyranid downplay in here though. I feel like a lot of you guys are playing the wrong dex, and looking for things that others have that we don't, without appreciating what we have. This army is very capable, that doesn't mean free wins left right and center. Put the work in the army will reward you.

**Strat_N8**

Resipsa131 wrote:I'm a new player and bought a Tervigon to be my Warlord cornerstone HQ and I can't seem to get any value out of it. It takes up 13 PL and I feel committed to 18PL worth of termaguants if I run it. That's a 1/3rd of my power level in 100PL games.

I've tried to advance with it across the map. It draws fire and provides synapse, and eventually dies (this has been the best result). I've tried leaving it open but in cover on turn one, it draws fire and lets units get down field, I've tried hiding on a back objective but then all the things that shoot at it on turn one shoot at other things. My opponents simply ignore the termagaunts that throw out hundreds of shots but deal 2-5 wounds per round.

If you are playing with Power Levels instead of points you don't really need to bring any additional Termagants since they can be spawned for free (hence the Tervigon's high PL, it basically assumes you will spawn every turn). I'd probably cram it in a Tyrannocyte and have it drop in alongside whatever heavy hitters you have and use its spawn ability to throw a wall of Termagants up to soak overwatch or tie up enemy guns for a turn (spawning ignores the usual "no more than 9'' away" restriction).

Resipsa131 wrote:
I don't think you should play the Tervigon and termagaunts versus MEQ armies Broodlords and genestealers or even better Patriarchs and Genestealers seem to be the way to go.

Maybe against Astra Militarium and Sororitas they'd be better due to more wounds. Is that the consensus?

Termagants aren't really damage dealers (Devourers excluded), they exist to clog the table and limit where enemy assault units and deep strikers can go, thereby protecting more important units that provide actual damage. By extension, the Tervigon's main function is to insure these screens continue to block enemy movement by creating new ones or reinforcing existing ones.

**Resipsa131**

You can still replace your dead flesh borers. I'm going to try them again this weekend in a patrol and just be hyper agressive up the field with them. Going GSC for most of my points to shake things up.

**BrotherGecko**

So looking into the Tyranids for the first time this edition as I want to try and redo an old idea of running an all close combat tyranid list. My initial question is, what is the point of one CCW biomorph over the other?

It seems that they have the same basic stats and only tweek a minor difference. Which works on say a space marine who if you give a power sword and powerfist you can see the relative reason on when you would use one over the other but say a licktor...why would I choose grasping claws over rending claws? Why give a hive tyrant boneswords and scything talons? Or a carnifex with any CCW loadout that isn't built to be a stone crusher?

Also how would people tackle a repulsor or a squad of aggressors?

**Spoletta**

BrotherGecko wrote:
So looking into the Tyranids for the first time this edition as I want to try and redo an old idea of running an all close combat tyranid list. My initial question is, what is the point of one CCW biomorph over the other?

It seems that they have the same basic stats and only tweek a minor difference. Which works on say a space marine who if you give a power sword and powerfist you can see the relative reason on when you would use one over the other but say a licktor...why would I choose grasping claws over rending claws? Why give a hive tyrant boneswords and scything talons? Or a carnifex with any CCW loadout that isn't built to be a stone crusher?

Also how would people tackle a repulsor or a squad of aggressors?

When you don't pay for those weapons then it is handy to have them.

There are targets for lictors where grasping claws are better than rending claws.
There are targets for genestealers where scything talons are better than rending claws.
There are targets where monstrous scytals are better than monstrous boneswords.

Now, that tipically is not enough reason to pay for those weapons, which is why the common set ups are double ranged or melee/ranged.

For the stonecrusher fex, there are actually a certaing catergory of targets that is best served with a classic carnifex. Also, after what happened with AoS forgeworld yesterday, i would be wary of going after FW stuff just because it is undercosted.

GW is actively punishing that mindset.

**Lance845**

1 Tervigon is very difficult to hang onto and get any value out of. You need 2. 2 Tervigons with 90 Termagants in 3 units of 30 (10 Devourers 20 fleshborers) Is a nightmare for the opponent to deal with. 150 shots from the termagants rerolling 1s to hit and to wound with psychic support and replenishing 20 models a turn. Fill out the rest of your list with immediate threats to act as distractions so they end up with threat overload (Trygons, Carnifex, etc etc...).

1 Tervigon will get dropped. 2 Tervigons is 28 wounds surrounded by a nightmare hail of living ammunition.

**luke1705**

Tyranids are great as long as you don't want to win a very competitive tournament. You could absolutely go 2-1 at a RTT or 4-2 at a GT but that's about as far as you can reasonably expect to get.

But at any non-top tier tournament level, they're great. They have a lot of tools and can overwhelm a fair amount of armies. They really only have trouble against giant amounts of screening units.

**Retrogamer0001**

Could I use a Patriarch model as a Broodlord model? Is there a big size difference between the two?

**Lance845**

Yup. Feel free. It's basically the same thing with a different name anyway.

Besides there is already a pretty decent size difference between the Spawn of Cryptus and the clam pack Brood Lord. None of it matters.

**Strat_N8**

Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Could I use a Patriarch model as a Broodlord model? Is there a big size difference between the two?

The current Brood Lord sculpt is quite a bit bigger and bulkier than the Patriarch, though both are about the same height.

**Retrogamer0001**

Excellent, thanks very much for that comparison.

**Niiai**

Witch one is what? And what would the big one from the spacehulk game be?

**Retrogamer0001**

Niiai wrote:
Witch one is what? And what would the big one from the spacehulk game be?

The super spikey one is the Patriarch from Deathwatch Overkill.

**Strat_N8**

Niiai wrote:
Which one is what?

The one on the left is the Patriarch and the one on the right is the current Brood Lord/Spawn of Cryptus.

Niiai wrote:
And what would the big one from the spacehulk game be?

Found this. The current Brood Lord/Spawn of Cryptus is on the left and the Space Hulk Brood Lord is on the right.

**Niiai**

Thanks :-)

**Retrogamer0001**

Any thoughts on the Zoanthrope? Is it actually worth taking in a semi-competitive list?

**Strat_N8**

Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Any thoughts on the Zoanthrope? Is it actually worth taking in a semi-competitive list?

Depends on what sort of list. From my experience, they like playing in Swarm lists as synapse nodes since their defensive profile and self-healing capabilities makes them an unattractive target for heavy weapons which otherwise would love shooting at T4 3+ wound models instead of gaunts. They are surprisingly fast since they are free to advance every turn and Fly lets them move over friendly models without issue. Biggest problem is that their damage output is rather low for their cost, though Smite can be nasty en-mass (especially with the Warp Blast bonus in effect) and since it auto-hits is good for AA.