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 BrotherGecko wrote:
How neccessary are adrenal glands and toxin sacs on Tyranids?

Well, the basic "rule" is to avoid them, and just buy more dudz. But for a Deep Striker, tossing in Adrenal sometimes makes sense. Toxic looks cool, but it costs more than it gives. I for one Love the idea of Acid Claw Stealers! But it cost too much to use, exept in PL play. Then you can toss some in and see how they play.

I just can't see toxin sacs being that useful, but maybe there's a combo that makes them worth the points. Adrenal glands seem like a good investment though, gotta make those charges.

 SHUPPET wrote:


He didn't say you were having fun wrong, he said it wasn't a good attitude to have competitively. And it's not. You've decided these limitations are there, when in reality I don't think it's the case at all - If you are talking about high possibility of dropping a match or two out of 8 - that's there for almost every army in the game except the utmost top 1 or 2 OP armies. And you said Nids couldn't go further than 4-2 at NOVA so you're already factually incorrect on that one, first tournament and they place higher than the ceiling you put on them, and that was a placing from inControl of all people. They are much more capable than you are giving them credit for, and 8th Tyranids are more than capable of rising past the limitations you've decided they have on them. I don't agree with everything in gameandwatch's post but I strongly agree with the bit you quoted on attitudes and results. Its just wrong to say we can't win top competitive tournaments - we can. Does that mean we will, not necessarily, there's a bunch of armies who can come first place and only one person gets it at the end of the day. There's no reason it won't be Tyranids even if it isn't as likely as AM.

Actually there are reasons. Pure Tyranids do not match up well against competitive Guard or against competitive CSM. The fact that someone won more games than my "reasonable expectation" isn't shocking to me at all. A "reasonable expectation" does not mean that surpassing 4-2 is an impossibility. It's all about matchups and since Geoff lost early, he got bracketed lower and never had to face the armies that were on the top tables. Anyone can go 6-0 in a tournament if they get great matchups throughout. My point is simply that we do not match up well with two of the predominant top tier competitive builds right now. Agree with it or not if you will - I have actually played Nids (mixed and pure) against top tier Guard and chaos lists run by GT winning players. Regardless of how you feel, it's a bad matchup for Nids.

And you're right - most armies other than chaos and guard will have difficulty beating those armies because of how good they are at the moment. So to say that if you win your first 3 games and have to play against those really tough lists, you probably will drop 2 out of 3 is in fact a likely outcome. No amount of postitive thinking can fix that.

Worth pointing out though that I'm not downing on Nids. They are really good and can go toe to toe with most armies in the game, no matter what the build. Saying "there not as good as competitive guard or csm" really is more indicative of the current game state than the state of our army.

xmbk wrote:
Talking about the limitations of a pure Nid army is pretty realistic. Mixed Nids certainly are more competitive. Really glad they are getting Codex sooner rather than later, along with Eldar they are the 2 main armies most in need of a codex.

I would've actually put GSC ahead of us. Nids have some near top tier options, GSC are just a desolate wasteland of overpriced options.

 luke1705 wrote:

Worth pointing out though that I'm not downing on Nids. They are really good and can go toe to toe with most armies in the game, no matter what the build. Saying "there not as good as competitive guard or csm" really is more indicative of the current game state than the state of our army.

Thats because other units are better at shooting and shooting is better then close combat. Thats why the 'simple straightforward' tyranid armylists bite the dust. A manticore could take down a trygon prime in 2 turns costing about half. Conscripts with orders are better then devourer gaunts. Think outside the box and have a all round strategy or be taken down.

 jifel wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
How neccessary are adrenal glands and toxin sacs on Tyranids?

Really depends on the unit. I like Adrenal Glands on anything that is deepstriking, to make that charge a little shorter. 8" is much more likely than 9" to be rolled after all. I have found that Toxin sacks are too pricey to be worth it to me in most cases, but Im sure someone has found a use for them.

In contrast, as a swarmer, I don't put 'em on anything. more bodies. MORE BODIES!

 jifel wrote:

xmbk wrote:
Talking about the limitations of a pure Nid army is pretty realistic. Mixed Nids certainly are more competitive. Really glad they are getting Codex sooner rather than later, along with Eldar they are the 2 main armies most in need of a codex.

I would've actually put GSC ahead of us. Nids have some near top tier options, GSC are just a desolate wasteland of overpriced options.

Lmao RIP the 15 minutes of fame for the 10 point GSC stealer

 luke1705 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:


He didn't say you were having fun wrong, he said it wasn't a good attitude to have competitively. And it's not. You've decided these limitations are there, when in reality I don't think it's the case at all - If you are talking about high possibility of dropping a match or two out of 8 - that's there for almost every army in the game except the utmost top 1 or 2 OP armies. And you said Nids couldn't go further than 4-2 at NOVA so you're already factually incorrect on that one, first tournament and they place higher than the ceiling you put on them, and that was a placing from inControl of all people. They are much more capable than you are giving them credit for, and 8th Tyranids are more than capable of rising past the limitations you've decided they have on them. I don't agree with everything in gameandwatch's post but I strongly agree with the bit you quoted on attitudes and results. Its just wrong to say we can't win top competitive tournaments - we can. Does that mean we will, not necessarily, there's a bunch of armies who can come first place and only one person gets it at the end of the day. There's no reason it won't be Tyranids even if it isn't as likely as AM.

Actually there are reasons. Pure Tyranids do not match up well against competitive Guard or against competitive CSM. The fact that someone won more games than my "reasonable expectation" isn't shocking to me at all. A "reasonable expectation" does not mean that surpassing 4-2 is an impossibility. It's all about matchups and since Geoff lost early, he got bracketed lower and never had to face the armies that were on the top tables. Anyone can go 6-0 in a tournament if they get great matchups throughout. My point is simply that we do not match up well with two of the predominant top tier competitive builds right now. Agree with it or not if you will - I have actually played Nids (mixed and pure) against top tier Guard and chaos lists run by GT winning players. Regardless of how you feel, it's a bad matchup for Nids.

And you're right - most armies other than chaos and guard will have difficulty beating those armies because of how good they are at the moment. So to say that if you win your first 3 games and have to play against those really tough lists, you probably will drop 2 out of 3 is in fact a likely outcome. No amount of postitive thinking can fix that.

Worth pointing out though that I'm not downing on Nids. They are really good and can go toe to toe with most armies in the game, no matter what the build. Saying "there not as good as competitive guard or csm" really is more indicative of the current game state than the state of our army.

AM is a bad match up for half the meta. Hell AM vs itself is technically a 50/50 to make it past - one of the AM players is going home. A high chance of going home at some point is what every single army has. Tyranid's having a bad match-up vs one or two armies is not some incredible handicap that makes it impossible to win a tourney. If Nids aren't a competitive army, then there is only 2-3 competitive armies in the game, and that's simply not the case, balance isn't perfect but it's better than it's ever been, and you can most definitely compete with any level of expectation with this army, even if the road is slightly more treacherous for Nids than it is for AM.


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Wakshaani wrote:

 jifel wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
How neccessary are adrenal glands and toxin sacs on Tyranids?

Really depends on the unit. I like Adrenal Glands on anything that is deepstriking, to make that charge a little shorter. 8" is much more likely than 9" to be rolled after all. I have found that Toxin sacks are too pricey to be worth it to me in most cases, but Im sure someone has found a use for them.

In contrast, as a swarmer, I don't put 'em on anything. more bodies. MORE BODIES!

I think they are pretty good on Warriors. Warriors generally check out at +30pts each, with AG only costing 1 extra point. That's like 10% the cost of putting AG on an equal amount of points worth of Termagants. Giving AG to two entire max 9 man squads of Warriors is still less than 20 pts, so it's not like you're even losing bodies to buy it.

Aside from that, AG on maybe Trygon's, maybe not though. On everything else I don't think it's worth at all. Definitely more points for bodies

Brace for a Tyranid curve ball;

Outrider
Hive Tyrant with wings, rending, stranglethorn

6x Hive Crones

2x Biovores
1x Biovore

Supreme Command
5x Magus
1x Familiar

Brigade
3x Magus
3x10 Neophytes

Karl is currently Sweden's #1 ranked 40K player, usually playing nids and/or cult. He's had success with this list in the recent ETC and also grabbed 2nd place at a major ITC tournament.

You can read about it here: http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/53497/magos-crone-spam

 luke1705 wrote:
Geoff Robinson did go 5-1 and place 40th at NOVA, losing only to Ynnari. But he also failed to matchup against Chaos except for Death Guard and only played IG once (which, to his credit, he did win).

Where do you get your info? Would like to read his tournament report.

Just have to say, I am in love with the Hierophant! Our shop has been following the Konor Campaign and seeing as this week's theme was Lord of War units it seemed a good opportunity to test him out.


I ended up with a 3000 point list with the Hierophant supported by 90 Termagants and 3 Tervigons vs a mixed Chaos list with over a hundred Poxwalkers and 3-4 Daemon Princes among other things. We opted to go with Narrative mode since it would allow him to re-summon his hardest hitters when slain and allowed me to happily spam Catalyst everywhere (very fun with Pyro-Acid Blood on the Hierophant). I ended up loosing on objectives due to running out of time, but the big bug proved itself by killing all of the Daemon Princes, Typhus, a Bloat Drone, and a Nurgle Daemon Lord post-summoning (1-volly from the Dire Bio-Cannons did 44 wounds) while absorbing a disproportionate amount of damage and ending the game with 27 wounds remaining. Termagants also proved highly annoying and actually killed quite a bit of infantry before getting stuck in an unending attrition fight with Poxwalkers (the Termagants were actually winning, but very slowly). We both ended up having a blast and it was a nice change of pace from the usual.

jifel wrote:

xmbk wrote:
Talking about the limitations of a pure Nid army is pretty realistic. Mixed Nids certainly are more competitive. Really glad they are getting Codex sooner rather than later, along with Eldar they are the 2 main armies most in need of a codex.

I would've actually put GSC ahead of us. Nids have some near top tier options, GSC are just a desolate wasteland of overpriced options.

I don't think they will be getting a book for awhile, as the lack of the <faction> keyword leads me to suspect they are pretty far out in development given that most of the codexes released thus far had said keyword in their indexes entries and they did have a plethora of sub-factions in the 7th edition GSC book. On the other hand, it also wouldn't surprise me if they were to get a wave release of some sort since they still need an Aberrant kit among other things.

Also it probably doesn't mean much, but my win/loss rate is actually better with my Genestealer Cult than my Tyranids.

N.I.B. wrote:Brace for a Tyranid curve ball;

Outrider
Hive Tyrant with wings, rending, stranglethorn

6x Hive Crones

2x Biovores
1x Biovore

Supreme Command
5x Magus
1x Familiar

Brigade
3x Magus
3x10 Neophytes

Looks like an evolution of the Lictorshame list, with Cult Ambushing Magi and Neophytes taking the place of Lictors/Rippers and Hive Crones replacing the old Flyrants. Lots of mortal wound generation potential by the look of it, though part of me wonders if it wouldn't be more efficient to drop the Familiar to upgrade a few of the Crones to Harpies since they offer another source of Spore Mines and their Sonic Screech makes them a good counter to the Counter Assault stratagem and "always swings first" abilities.

At the risk of seeming somewhat self-serving, I don't suppose you could post the above in the GSC tactica thread as well? Would be a good example of a hybrid list.

 SHUPPET wrote:

luke1705 wrote:

 gameandwatch wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
Tyranids are great as long as you don't want to win a very competitive tournament. You could absolutely go 2-1 at a RTT or 4-2 at a GT but that's about as far as you can reasonably expect to get.

But at any non-top tier tournament level, they're great. They have a lot of tools and can overwhelm a fair amount of armies. They really only have trouble against giant amounts of screening units.

Im sorry but that is the absolute WORST attitude to have playing an army. With the flexibility of the current army and edition, Nids can be top tier in the right hands.

....

Give them a try, you might be surprised!

Not really sure how me saying that Nids weren't going to win NOVA amounts to having fun wrong. Nids are my first love and I'm very excited to see what the codex has in store. I never said that they were bad - just that they have some bad matchups at the highest levels of competition. As far as giving them a try, I have and I will continue to do so. But if you try to pit them against a guard gun line, an optimized CSM list or many other of the upper tier tournament lists, you'll struggle mightily. As the top Tyranid player, Geoff Robinson did go 5-1 and place 40th at NOVA, losing only to Ynnari. But he also failed to matchup against Chaos except for Death Guard and only played IG once (which, to his credit, he did win).

In any case, sorry that you disagree with my assessment of where Tyranids are right now. It is literally miles better than we have been in a long time, and I'm very happy. Just wanted to put a realistic ceiling on how people could expect to do at a large event.

He didn't say you were having fun wrong, he said it wasn't a good attitude to have competitively. And it's not. You've decided these limitations are there, when in reality I don't think it's the case at all - If you are talking about high possibility of dropping a match or two out of 8 - that's there for almost every army in the game except the utmost top 1 or 2 OP armies. And you said Nids couldn't go further than 4-2 at NOVA so you're already factually incorrect on that one, first tournament and they place higher than the ceiling you put on them, and that was a placing from inControl of all people. They are much more capable than you are giving them credit for, and 8th Tyranids are more than capable of rising past the limitations you've decided they have on them. I don't agree with everything in gameandwatch's post but I strongly agree with the bit you quoted on attitudes and results. Its just wrong to say we can't win top competitive tournaments - we can. Does that mean we will, not necessarily, there's a bunch of armies who can come first place and only one person gets it at the end of the day. There's no reason it won't be Tyranids even if it isn't as likely as AM.

Yeah for sure, I was in no way attacking your aesthetic, love or dedication to the game. In a competitive scene, there can be no such thing as a no win scenario, unless you deliberately leave out tools you would otherwise require to engage certain units or armies. Maybe more so in 7th, where every game essentially boiled down to rock/paper/scissors, in this edition, anything can literally engage anything. The change to the wound table alone opened up SO many avenues for nids that we didn't previously have. For instance, in the previous edition(s), we struggled with anti-tank, like knights, because all we had at our disposal were units that were mediocre at best at handling even medium armor. Now with degenerative armor stats(ap) and S5 being pretty much the magic number, suddenly even termagants can damage a knight.

This was the point of y comment, that to defeat yourself when facing certain threats before the game has even begun is not a good attitude to have. Yes, in some circumstances we might struggle with guard, but is the army perfect? Is every player top tier? Will they not make mistakes? It isn't like having to face undeniable rerollable 2+ invul saves of the previous edition, everything is killable now and now again like in 4th-5th edition, people get the willies playing against nids now.

Personally, i will never use AM units in my lists from a simple personal stance, but I have been using a unit that has been largely panned, Acolyte Hybrids, and they have been CRUSHING. I run units of 15-20 w/ 6 saws, with a primus and a magus nearby, throw might on them, and have them ambush towards a hard target. That unit evaporates a knight in one turn, no questions asked. Hell, with above average rolls, they one shot a Garg Squiggoth turn 1, just silly. Rock saws are SO good, and with the primus, acolytes cant miss.

And SHUPPET, you can best believe I will also be hopping on that warrior train, but with the codex announcement, I have decided to hold off on my nid development until that book drops as seeing the other codices, I have a feeling it will dramatically influence the way I want to run the army...CANT WAIT GAAAAHHHHH

 N.I.B. wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
Geoff Robinson did go 5-1 and place 40th at NOVA, losing only to Ynnari. But he also failed to matchup against Chaos except for Death Guard and only played IG once (which, to his credit, he did win).

Where do you get your info? Would like to read his tournament report.

Best coast pairings app. You'll need to subscribe to see the past events but it's totally worth it. No report - just lists and scores

Strat_N8 wrote:Just have to say, I am in love with the Hierophant! Our shop has been following the Konor Campaign and seeing as this week's theme was Lord of War units it seemed a good opportunity to test him out.


I ended up with a 3000 point list with the Hierophant supported by 90 Termagants and 3 Tervigons vs a mixed Chaos list with over a hundred Poxwalkers and 3-4 Daemon Princes among other things. We opted to go with Narrative mode since it would allow him to re-summon his hardest hitters when slain and allowed me to happily spam Catalyst everywhere (very fun with Pyro-Acid Blood on the Hierophant). I ended up loosing on objectives due to running out of time, but the big bug proved itself by killing all of the Daemon Princes, Typhus, a Bloat Drone, and a Nurgle Daemon Lord post-summoning (1-volly from the Dire Bio-Cannons did 44 wounds) while absorbing a disproportionate amount of damage and ending the game with 27 wounds remaining.

Wow Strat, sounds incredible! Not many people own the model, I don't know anyone who has actually played with one yet, but Heirophant sounds like a machine! I think I might look to save up for one as my next addition, it looks so cool and at higher points he sounds like fun. Out of curiosity, how do you think it would perform at 2000 pts when it's literally the only thing on your side of the table?

gameandwatch wrote:

And SHUPPET, you can best believe I will also be hopping on that warrior train, but with the codex announcement, I have decided to hold off on my nid development until that book drops as seeing the other codices, I have a feeling it will dramatically influence the way I want to run the army...CANT WAIT GAAAAHHHHH

I haven't been paying attention to what they've said the goal is with these dexes... have they said they will have heavy amounts of changes? Tyranid's doesn't seem like a suspect army at all, we aren't causing any problems in the meta and we certainly aren't underpowered, and there seems to be a lot of internal balance, almost every thing except a couple of units have a niche. If GW change much I feel it might be a mistake, but I too might wait and see... when is it coming?

SHUPPET wrote:Wow Strat, sounds incredible! Not many people own the model, I don't know anyone who has actually played with one yet, but Heirophant sounds like a machine! I think I might look to save up for one as my next addition, it looks so cool and at higher points he sounds like fun.

Indeed! It dominated the match both in terms of damage output and its table presence (it absolutely towers over terrain). As far as getting one, it was a birthday present from my brothers. At the time, both had titans of their own (Stompa and Revenant) while I had none so they decided to rectify it in the most generous way possible. Admittedly, both are probably regretting it now seeing as it got so much stronger than its 6th/7th edition version while theirs got a good deal weaker...

SHUPPET wrote:
Out of curiosity, how do you think it would perform at 2000 pts when it's literally the only thing on your side of the table?

I actually did get a ~2000 point game against a local Tau player and it destroyed half his army by turn 4 (he conceded after it nuked his Stormsurge, had a Hammerhead and a half-dead Riptide left to threaten it). At 2000 points alone it would be very reliant on match-ups to win, as it has no real scoring capability so it would be forced to table the enemy. It would excel against things like Razorback spam and similar lists, but things like Brimstone spam are a nightmare for it since it has trouble killing cheap infantry and it does not like mortal wounds that bypass its otherwise impressive defenses.

To put it another way, it would be a Deathstar that acts in an almost perfect replica of the original Death Star: It wrecks big things in a single shot but struggles with small targets and has a critical vulnerability that may be exploited.

SHUPPET wrote:I haven't been paying attention to what they've said the goal is with these dexes... have they said they will have heavy amounts of changes? Tyranid's doesn't seem like a suspect army at all, we aren't causing any problems in the meta and we certainly aren't underpowered, and there seems to be a lot of internal balance, almost every thing except a couple of units have a niche. If GW change much I feel it might be a mistake, but I too might wait and see... when is it coming?

It is supposedly planned for a November release ('Nidvember?). The codexes thus far have mostly just tinkered with point costs and buffed weaker units (in the Chaos codex for instance Possessed gained an extra wound for free and Obliterators had the number of shots on their random guns doubled) with the biggest changes being the various faction-specific stratagems and sub-faction special rules. I'm curious as to what our Hive Fleet special rules will be, but am expecting Behemoth = melee + 'nidzilla, Kraken = stealthy, Leviathan = all rounder, Gorgon = swarms, Jormungandr = tunneling units. Also I am very curious as to what Hydra is up to given it is given such attention in the BRB and its unusual focus on assimilating other Hive Fleets over standard harvesting behaviors.

 gameandwatch wrote:

Personally, i will never use AM units in my lists from a simple personal stance, but I have been using a unit that has been largely panned, Acolyte Hybrids, and they have been CRUSHING. I run units of 15-20 w/ 6 saws, with a primus and a magus nearby, throw might on them, and have them ambush towards a hard target. That unit evaporates a knight in one turn, no questions asked. Hell, with above average rolls, they one shot a Garg Squiggoth turn 1, just silly. Rock saws are SO good, and with the primus, acolytes cant miss.

A lot of it is from people being turned off by their loss of half of their rending attacks compared to their 7th edition version paired with a cost increase. They are still quite serviceable as special weapon squads for ripping up big things but most people in 7th ran them without upgrades and relied on weight of attacks to pull things down. Glad to hear they are working for you though!

 SHUPPET wrote:

Strat_N8 wrote:Just have to say, I am in love with the Hierophant! Our shop has been following the Konor Campaign and seeing as this week's theme was Lord of War units it seemed a good opportunity to test him out.


I ended up with a 3000 point list with the Hierophant supported by 90 Termagants and 3 Tervigons vs a mixed Chaos list with over a hundred Poxwalkers and 3-4 Daemon Princes among other things. We opted to go with Narrative mode since it would allow him to re-summon his hardest hitters when slain and allowed me to happily spam Catalyst everywhere (very fun with Pyro-Acid Blood on the Hierophant). I ended up loosing on objectives due to running out of time, but the big bug proved itself by killing all of the Daemon Princes, Typhus, a Bloat Drone, and a Nurgle Daemon Lord post-summoning (1-volly from the Dire Bio-Cannons did 44 wounds) while absorbing a disproportionate amount of damage and ending the game with 27 wounds remaining.

Wow Strat, sounds incredible! Not many people own the model, I don't know anyone who has actually played with one yet, but Heirophant sounds like a machine! I think I might look to save up for one as my next addition, it looks so cool and at higher points he sounds like fun. Out of curiosity, how do you think it would perform at 2000 pts when it's literally the only thing on your side of the table?

gameandwatch wrote:

And SHUPPET, you can best believe I will also be hopping on that warrior train, but with the codex announcement, I have decided to hold off on my nid development until that book drops as seeing the other codices, I have a feeling it will dramatically influence the way I want to run the army...CANT WAIT GAAAAHHHHH

I haven't been paying attention to what they've said the goal is with these dexes... have they said they will have heavy amounts of changes? Tyranid's doesn't seem like a suspect army at all, we aren't causing any problems in the meta and we certainly aren't underpowered, and there seems to be a lot of internal balance, almost every thing except a couple of units have a niche. If GW change much I feel it might be a mistake, but I too might wait and see... when is it coming?

Yeah less about unit changes and adjustments, more about how the strategems and hive fleets(chapter tactics) can really alter how an army is played, and I want to finally see us with some yummy relics. And Nidvember is fo-realz

And I totally agree Strat_N8, how Acolytes function now is different from their core purpose in 7th. They actually have more attacks then I first realized, with the base 2 and the extra from the knife, so 3 base is not bad considering. I think 11 points is too expensive for a T3 5+ save model, maybe 9 points would be more fitting, but they have been my easy answer to big things for a while now. Running them in a tournament tomorrow, so Ill have more feedback to report.

Well...heres my "big" prediction for the Dex....(add: drum roll).Spinefists will x2 A seeing as the were "twinlinked" and most anything else with twinlinked got doubled.

I don't know what to expect, but some "Fleet Tactics" would be very cool. Maybe some gear could be tweaked, and Zoeys are a little expensive for what they bring right now. Veno's likely need some work as well.

My mad hope is a super heavy plastic model to kick off the new dex. Can you imagine what Nids would play like with something like, "Out of the shadows!" This Hive Fleet : copy/paste Alpha Legion or Raven Guard, including Strategems. With a Telepathic Hive Mind "I am Alpharius" makes total sense! So unless they totally drop the ball, this Dex ought to be a very good one!

Hormagaunts need to hit on 3's, at the very least.

I hoping/predicting tranid prime will buff all nid units with re-roll 1's to hit (ala Space marine LT's) and Warrior types with +1 hit, also for heaven's sake give him a wing option.....

I'm hoping for scything talons to be a melee booster weapon to promote mixed CCW weapons. Something like it gives reroll 1s to all melee weapons the Nid has.

Crushing Claws need to come down in points and lose the -1 to hit. That -1 makes them unusable on 4+ to hit units, especially without aura HQ.

I want to see the Carnifex have its strenght jump up to 8. So that talon fexes can affect vehicles and claws demolish vehicles.

I don't understand that trouble with AM. I think we are one of the best armies against them. It isn't a fun game for sure, but if we rush into their screen, it comes down to killing it and we win or not a lose. A lot of armies don't have that good of a chance against them. I suffer more against Bobby-G now that he can attack even after I kill the bugger with their stratagem.

I also run pure nids with no allies and I do really well this edition. We have so many tools to deal with so many things and this current iteration of Nids forces a lot of questions on our opponents to answer or get overrun.

Well Dakka, I've been noodling around Nids in 8th, and I thought I'd share some of my army building "trix". I hope this will be useful for some, sorry to the rest for repeating things you already know. Disclaimer: I am starting a new set of painkillers, so check the math twice!


I tend to think in "Templates" or "Blocks" for example:

"Sandblaster" Template;

Tervigon, Scything, Stinger....250
Trevigon, as above

Termagant Brood, x20+ 10 Devilgaunts 160
as above
as above

so that runs about...980, add say 40 points for an emergency Summon...for 1020 from this you can build a very effective force.


Example two, "Gotchya" Two Brood lords, two Broods of x20 Stealers, and Two Trygons with Adrenals....around 980 add some table units, and you can win plenty of games. (For example add Sandblaster to Gotchya for 2000 )


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So lets try something else,say going "Counter Meta"

I will try to build a Force that plays like Space Wolves, to counter AM Conscript spam.

So what I want to do , is pop up close and shoot like crazy. Then only charge when it seems like a good move.


Warriors are cool...right? Well they shoot real good anyway.

Warriors, x6, Rending Claws, Devourers, Adrenal Glands. +3 Warriors, Rending Claws, Adrenal, Strangle Cannon...Add in a Trygon, Adrenal as a "Taxi"....456 points? They show up at 9+" shoot like crazy, and charge if it seems useful, Trygon does the same.

Whats wrong? oh, table presence...


How about Swarmlord, with some Swarms? Swarmlord, Hormagaunt Brood x30, Hormagaunt Brood x30.....600?

Need one more...OK a Tyranid Prime, might even buff the Warriors some times: Prime, Twin Bone , Deathspitter, Adrenal......113?

Lets toss in a second Warrior+ Taxi.......456

I think that adds to...1625 Lots of room to customise, and you can play like you're Space Marines for the most part.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and using "Blocks" makes adding GSC easy as well.

Timeshadow wrote:
I hoping/predicting tranid prime will buff all nid units with re-roll 1's to hit (ala Space marine LT's) and Warrior types with +1 hit, also for heaven's sake give him a wing option.....

That should be reversed. All nids get +1 to hit and warriors reroll 1s. A bunch of nid units already get reroll 1s for having 20+ models in the unit.

Lance845 wrote:

Timeshadow wrote:
I hoping/predicting tranid prime will buff all nid units with re-roll 1's to hit (ala Space marine LT's) and Warrior types with +1 hit, also for heaven's sake give him a wing option.....

That should be reversed. All nids get +1 to hit and warriors reroll 1s. A bunch of nid units already get reroll 1s for having 20+ models in the unit.

I think he was saying that Primes should have a reroll 1's to hit bubble for everyone in addition to the +1 to hit they bestow Warriors specifically. Also the reroll for 20-strong broods is actually for 1's to wound. Hormagaunts get reroll 1's to hit from Scything Talons by default and Termagants get it from Tervigons.

If anything were getting an extra effect bubble, I'd love to see something for Hive Tyrants. Apart from their 12'' synapse bubble they don't really have anything unique to support the rest of the army with. Would be nice if they revisited the Indescribable Horror, Hive Commander, and Old Adversary abilities.

pinecone77 wrote:

Warriors are cool...right? Well they shoot real good anyway.

Warriors, x6, Rending Claws, Devourers, Adrenal Glands. +3 Warriors, Rending Claws, Adrenal, Strangle Cannon...Add in a Trygon, Adrenal as a "Taxi"....456 points? They show up at 9+ shoot like crazy, and charge if it seems useful, Trygon does the same.

I'm partial to a mix of Boneswords and Deathspitters personally. Boneswords add an extra attack with fixed AP-2 and Deathspitters have the advantage of being able to hurt T8 and T9 on 5's instead of 6's while also having a bit of AP to negate cover. Admittedly, I get most of my Rending from Genestealers or Acolytes, so I'm a bit biased.

Warriors with Boneswords, AG, and Deathspitters! Perfecto

 SHUPPET wrote:
Warriors with Boneswords, AG, and Deathspitters! Perfecto

True But perfect is expensive. So I usually look for "good enough".

pinecone77 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Warriors with Boneswords, AG, and Deathspitters! Perfecto

True But perfect is expensive. So I usually look for "good enough".

Actually not really, they are extremely points efficient and the upgrades are priced really nice and cheap. You could tack on a bunch of gak, but BS + DS w AG is imo the most efficient way to run them. Deathspitters self explanatory, BS is by FAR the most efficient melee upgrade, AG isn't necessary by any means but seeing as they can run and gun nicely and it's 1ppm on an Elite unit (total 9points per max size squad) you probably should unless you really need the upgrade elsewhere

 SHUPPET wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Warriors with Boneswords, AG, and Deathspitters! Perfecto

True But perfect is expensive. So I usually look for "good enough".

Actually not really, they are extremely points efficient and the upgrades are priced really nice and cheap. You could tack on a bunch of gak, but BS + DS w AG is imo the most efficient way to run them. Deathspitters self explanatory, BS is by FAR the most efficient melee upgrade, AG isn't necessary by any means but seeing as they can run and gun nicely and it's 1ppm on an Elite unit (total 9points per max size squad) you probably should unless you really need the upgrade elsewhere

Drop the AG and take shrikes instead. For 5 more PPM then what you pay for the warriors with the AG you double your M attribute and gain fly. A significant upgrade for dirt cheap.

I cannot stress enough how much better shrikes are then warriors if you intend to do any running around/melee. Warriors are only better for sitting in back mid field synapse support and firing off guns. Any melee shrikes are better.

 Lance845 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Warriors with Boneswords, AG, and Deathspitters! Perfecto

True But perfect is expensive. So I usually look for "good enough".

Actually not really, they are extremely points efficient and the upgrades are priced really nice and cheap. You could tack on a bunch of gak, but BS + DS w AG is imo the most efficient way to run them. Deathspitters self explanatory, BS is by FAR the most efficient melee upgrade, AG isn't necessary by any means but seeing as they can run and gun nicely and it's 1ppm on an Elite unit (total 9points per max size squad) you probably should unless you really need the upgrade elsewhere

Drop the AG and take shrikes instead. For 5 more PPM then what you pay for the warriors with the AG you double your M attribute and gain fly. A significant upgrade for dirt cheap.

I cannot stress enough how much better shrikes are then warriors if you intend to do any running around/melee. Warriors are only better for sitting in back mid field synapse support and firing off guns. Any melee shrikes are better.

appreciate the suggestion, but I don't think it's that cut and dry.
You should intend to do melee with both.
2 squads of Shrikes is almost another 100 pts on top of 2 squads of Warriors.
Both are very good units, both have their roles.
I would take Shrikes if I had something I could justify dropping for it, but I'd rather move them up the board on foot for 100 pts cheaper.
Warrior's shooting is top notch, their durability is aces, and they can melee hard when they make it there, they don't need to flap ahead of the army on every build. Also, if they are being used with a Prime, Shrikes would have to stay at the Prime's speed anyway to get the buff.

Shrikes are good, but Warriors are just as good. It's list dependant. Shrikes are quite pricey.

 SHUPPET wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Warriors with Boneswords, AG, and Deathspitters! Perfecto

True But perfect is expensive. So I usually look for "good enough".

Actually not really, they are extremely points efficient and the upgrades are priced really nice and cheap. You could tack on a bunch of gak, but BS + DS w AG is imo the most efficient way to run them. Deathspitters self explanatory, BS is by FAR the most efficient melee upgrade, AG isn't necessary by any means but seeing as they can run and gun nicely and it's 1ppm on an Elite unit (total 9points per max size squad) you probably should unless you really need the upgrade elsewhere

Foot slogging I think you're making some sense. But in that list I'm paying 180 per Brood for a Trygon tunnel taxi, so I'm looking to save points anywhere I can find 'em. The Prime is kitted with Adrenal, Twin Bone, and Deathspitter though. Of course he's legging it.....supervising Hormagaunts most likely.

So played some more games with my nids, thought I'd share my experiences;

- Hive Tyrant is squishy
- Trygons are decently blenders
- Exocrines, once setup, are deadly
- Deep striking rippers into blocking positions is really useful!
- Massed Biovores are great. The shooting their mines absorbs I think exceeds the benefits of the wounds they do!