Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - The Great Devourer is Nigh

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**Lance845**

Yeah, I expect rending claws to be gone. Sky Slashers are still produced... so I think they might be there, but I don't understand why. The unit doesn't really serve much of a purpose and nobody is buying them. They have to be one of the worst selling units GW has ever produced. Red Terror MIGHT be gone.

Shrikes are probably gone... But I am REALLY hoping for a shrike sprue upgrade kit or added to warrior packaging. Either way I will keep using mine from the index.

I am hoping they expand some of our wargear options. I would love it if, for a cost, we could ad +1 Sv to Hive Tyrants, Carnifex, and Warriors. Adrenal Glands and Venom Sacs are all nice and such but it's 2 upgrades that support the same thing. Melee. I would like some more options to help our units defensively or for shooting.

**Niiai**

Bring back 4th edition customasation. :-)

**NackaNid**

Lance845 wrote:
NackaNid wrote:
Where do you find the release-dates? Can't find anything, anywhere... :(

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/741851.page

Thank you!!

**Tarval**

Quick question guys,

Broodlord.

1. spacehulk model--cheaper model to purchase to fill the role
2. new model 1 and half times more for the same model but a little bigger

Does it really matter? I'd like to nail this down so that I can get this guy off my list.

**Lance845**

Tarval wrote:
Quick question guys,

Broodlord.

1. spacehulk model--cheaper model to purchase to fill the role
2. new model 1 and half times more for the same model but a little bigger

Does it really matter? I'd like to nail this down so that I can get this guy off my list.

It does not. But the start collecting box is going to make the cryptus brood lord (the now standard) much cheaper. I garantee it.

**Tarval**

I've heard nids will be released next month. That's when you expect the new starter box to roll out?

The broodlord you speak of is the one from the cult line?

**Lance845**

The start collecting will probably be with the dex. Look up spawn of cryptus. Thats a brood lord. What the cult has is a patriarch.

**SHUPPET**

Niiai wrote:Well the biovore could be targeted. I hope they don't nerf anything.

Doubt they will touch Biovore much if they've been paying attention. It's not even a top 5 unit in it's own dex.

**Spoletta**

SHUPPET wrote:
Niiai wrote:Well the biovore could be targeted. I hope they don't nerf anything.

Doubt they will touch Biovore much if they've been paying attention. It's not even a top 5 unit in it's own dex.

It it happens then it will be by indirect nerf, since spore mines will probably change. Right now no one uses spore mines, and why should they when those things cost 10 points each and will fail to do anything in 90% of the games. Even if for some reason they get to the target then you just traded a mortal wound for 10 points, which in intself is not that good. Either they drop the cost to 3 points or completely change how they work.

**Lance845**

Spoletta wrote:
SHUPPET wrote:
Niiai wrote:Well the biovore could be targeted. I hope they don't nerf anything.

Doubt they will touch Biovore much if they've been paying attention. It's not even a top 5 unit in it's own dex.

It it happens then it will be by indirect nerf, since spore mines will probably change. Right now no one uses spore mines, and why should they when those things cost 10 points each and will fail to do anything in 90% of the games. Even if for some reason they get to the target then you just traded a mortal wound for 10 points, which in intself is not that good. Either they drop the cost to 3 points or completely change how they work.

I am not a fan of being able to buy mines as units to begin with. Units we have should create mines. Maybe purchase units of them as upgrades. But we shouldn't be filling a FoC slot with mines. It's only ever used as a way to pad a list for some other advantage with the cheapest units possible.

But if Biovores, Harpys and Sporecysts could purchase them as wargear to be deployed separately... win.

**Niiai**

It is the only unit in the game that shoots 'deny movement'. That can easaly be targeted.

**Cauthon**

How much variance of appearance will be required to run different hive fleets simoltaniously? I've seen plenty of lists that have multiple detachments using different "chapter tactics".

While not at all fluffy I'm sure there will be blatant advantages to having a competitive army using multiple "chapter tactics". Genestealers/ trygons one flavor, hive guard/ exocrines another. If your already using a non codex paint scheme do you think just painting the trim on the bases different colors would be good enough or do they really need to "differ in appearance".

**Spoletta**

I hope that nids don't work like that. You should be able to have only ONE "chapter tactic" in the whole army. Tyranid fleets have NEVER joined together as far as i know.

**Tyran**

Yes they have. Its not common, but two different Hive Fleets working together has happened before.

**C4790M**

Spore mines need a rework, and hopefully they won't take down the biovore with them. Half cost would work, also a stratagem that you use at the start of the battle where you get to simulate the preliminary spore bombardment mentioned often in the fluff would be great

"Rain of Living Mines - 3CP"
Activate at the start of the battle, before the first turn. Roll a d6 for every enemy unit. On a 6+? That unit takes a mortal wound. On 3-5, set up a spore mine greater than 3" away from any enemy models but less than 6" away from the target unit. That spore mine cannot move or charge this turn. On a 1-2, nothing happens

**N.I.B.**

Zimko wrote:

This is my current 2k list. It's actually undeafeted but I placed 3rd due to points and only 3 rounds for that tournament.

Brigade:
HQ:
Swarmlord
Old One Eye
Malonthrope
Elite:
4 Zoanthropes (Nuerothrope included)
4 Zoanthropes (Neurothrope included)
Red Terror
Fast Attack:
3x Raveners with rending claws and deathspitters.
3x Raveners with rending claws and deathspitters.
3x Raveners with rending claws and deathspitters.
Troops:
20 Devgaunts
10 Termagaunts
10 Termagaunts
10 Termagaunts
3 Rippers
3 Rippers
Heavy Support:
Trygon Prime with glands
2x Biovores
2x Biovores
1x Biovores
1x Biovores

12 command points. 8 deep striking units. I usually get to see most of my opponents deployment before I placed my first unit. This helps a lot with keeping Swarmlord and Old One Eye alive for the first turn. On my first turn, I use onslaught and hive commander to launch old one eye across the board and he has yet to fail to reach combat. The Swarmlord I will hide as best I can until a target presents itself for him to use the same trick on. Last tournament I killed Gurlyman against two different opponents because of smite spam and a Swarmlord charge.

Our local tournament shop has 2 large LOS blockers on every board. Without those, this list wouldn't work.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and biovores have been awesome for creating barriers for enemy movement. The relic is one of my easiest matches because spore mines block their path and I deep strike a large force near the relic. The raveners throw themselves into melee while the devgaunts pick it up and run.

The Red Terror has been surprisingly effective. I picked it up to fill an elites slot, buff raveners, and to be another deep striker. But he has managed to swallow a Librarian, and Archon, a Big Mek, and a Pain Boy.

I took your list for a spin against Space Wolves tonight, faced

Bjorn the Fellhanded
Iron priest on TWC
6x Axe-dreads with Blizzard Shields
2x Culexus Assassins
Knight Crusader

I gave up after 3 turns, only had left 3 Rippers and 10 Termagants in hiding plus the Biovores about to be charged. 0-20. Had I had the first turn I would likely gotten a draw or a minor win. It's a fun list, I just ran into a hard counter.

**Strat_N8**

Cauthon wrote:How much variance of appearance will be required to run different hive fleets simoltaniously? I've seen plenty of lists that have multiple detachments using different "chapter tactics".

While not at all fluffy I'm sure there will be blatant advantages to having a competitive army using multiple "chapter tactics". Genestealers/ trygons one flavor, hive guard/ exocrines another. If your already using a non codex paint scheme do you think just painting the trim on the bases different colors would be good enough or do they really need to "differ in appearance".

As far as I know no tournament has required paint match the "chapter tactics" used yet, but that could admittedly change as they grow more prevalent. If I had to make a distinction, I'd probably take a page from Dawn of War II or the Annihilation Swarm from the Deathstorm box and paint small markings on the carapace. Purple could be used for Leviathan, Red for Kraken, Blue/Black for Behemoth, etc.

Spoletta wrote:I hope that nids don't work like that. You should be able to have only ONE "chapter tactic" in the whole army. Tyranid fleets have NEVER joined together as far as i know.

The Warzone: Valdore book had a tendril of Kraken and Leviathan working together.

**Zimko**

N.I.B. wrote:

I took your list for a spin against Space Wolves tonight, faced

Bjorn the Fellhanded
Iron priest on TWC
6x Axe-dreads with Blizzard Shields
2x Culexus Assassins
Knight Crusader

I gave up after 3 turns, only had left 3 Rippers and 10 Termagants in hiding plus the Biovores about to be charged. 0-20. Had I had the first turn I would likely gotten a draw or a minor win. It's a fun list, I just ran into a hard counter.

That does sound pretty tough. I appreciate you trying it out. How much did he kill on turn 1? Did you have decent LOS blocking terrain? What mission were you Playing? What happened to your malanthrope? Will you try the list again? Sorry for all the questions.

With the codex coming out soon, I'm not sure how much will change. I'm hoping for at least some useful strategems to take advantage of with 12 CP.

**lindsay40k**

Hi, folks, I'm thinking about digging out my old Behemoth collection; interested in building a Flyrant as a project and wondering what loadouts work well for it?

**Amishprn86**

If you wanted to wait a few weeks the codex will be out.

**lindsay40k**

Well yeah, but I’m interested to know what builds are working well. I notice that Tyrant Guard can catch bullets for multiple Tyrants and even ones in the air, that’s interesting.

Also: how are Sporocysts doing? I have a load of spare T-cyte guns that could bring my 4ed dinosaur egg Mycetic Spores back into service as Barbed Strangler spammers...

**Strat_N8**

lindsay40k wrote:
Well yeah, but I’m interested to know what builds are working well. I notice that Tyrant Guard can catch bullets for multiple Tyrants and even ones in the air, that’s interesting.

The main issue is that the most popular build for Tyrant's right now (Monstrous Rending Claws + other) might not be legal once the codex is dropped.

lindsay40k wrote:

Also: how are Sporocysts doing? I have a load of spare T-cyte guns that could bring my 4ed dinosaur egg Mycetic Spores back into service as Barbed Strangler spammers...

It is a lot better than it used to be. I haven't seen them used much (presumably due to how static it is) but I have had a couple games with mine where it did ok. They mostly exist to drop on objectives and hope to keep the enemy troops busy for a few turns while other units focus on killing things.

**Amishprn86**

Strat_N8 wrote:
lindsay40k wrote:
Well yeah, but I’m interested to know what builds are working well. I notice that Tyrant Guard can catch bullets for multiple Tyrants and even ones in the air, that’s interesting.

The main issue is that the most popular build for Tyrant's right now (Monstrous Rending Claws + other) might not be legal once the codex is dropped.

This, and... point changes/fleet buffs also might be a big deal and a game changer. I would go armless for the next 3-4 weeks and just wait.

**C4790M**

Strat_N8 wrote:
lindsay40k wrote:
Well yeah, but I’m interested to know what builds are working well. I notice that Tyrant Guard can catch bullets for multiple Tyrants and even ones in the air, that’s interesting.

The main issue is that the most popular build for Tyrant's right now (Monstrous Rending Claws + other) might not be legal once the codex is dropped.

lindsay40k wrote:

Also: how are Sporocysts doing? I have a load of spare T-cyte guns that could bring my 4ed dinosaur egg Mycetic Spores back into service as Barbed Strangler spammers...

It is a lot better than it used to be. I haven't seen them used much (presumably due to how static it is) but I have had a couple games with mine where it did ok. They mostly exist to drop on objectives and hope to keep the enemy troops busy for a few turns while other units focus on killing things.

The rending claws should still be legal if not in the codex, you. Just have to use the index variant don't you?

**Lance845**

C4790M wrote:
Strat_N8 wrote:
lindsay40k wrote:
Well yeah, but I’m interested to know what builds are working well. I notice that Tyrant Guard can catch bullets for multiple Tyrants and even ones in the air, that’s interesting.

The main issue is that the most popular build for Tyrant's right now (Monstrous Rending Claws + other) might not be legal once the codex is dropped.

lindsay40k wrote:

Also: how are Sporocysts doing? I have a load of spare T-cyte guns that could bring my 4ed dinosaur egg Mycetic Spores back into service as Barbed Strangler spammers...

It is a lot better than it used to be. I haven't seen them used much (presumably due to how static it is) but I have had a couple games with mine where it did ok. They mostly exist to drop on objectives and hope to keep the enemy troops busy for a few turns while other units focus on killing things.

The rending claws should still be legal if not in the codex, you. Just have to use the index variant don't you?

No. You are expected to use the most up to date datasheet. You can ask your opponent if you can use the index version but that is one person allowing you to use an old entry entirely out of their generosity. I wouldn't say yes to that. I wouldn't expect anyone else to.

**Spoletta**

You must use the most up to date datasheet for that equipment and model. If in the codex there isn't an Hyve Tyrant with MRC then the index is the most up to date, same thing that right now happens with rifle dreads.
Point is that we can safely expect a cost increase on MRC, probably by 25 points or so. That or the other options become better. It would be unwise of GW to keep the best version of hyve tyrant unavailable to new players.

**Lance845**

Spoletta wrote:
You must use the most up to date datasheet for that equipment and model. If in the codex there isn't an Hyve Tyrant with MRC then the index is the most up to date, same thing that right now happens with rifle dreads.
Point is that we can safely expect a cost increase on MRC, probably by 25 points or so. That or the other options become better. It would be unwise of GW to keep the best version of hyve tyrant unavailable to new players.

This is NOT the way it works. What options are on the Datasheet are not themselves a datasheet.

Yes, many units’ rules in their codexes will alter from those in the indexes. Sometimes this is to better represent the miniatures and the background, sometimes to balance the game, and sometimes to better fit with the army’s new special rules in the codex itself. In all cases, these will then supersede the rules for that datasheet in the index book.

If the codex datasheet "Hive Tyrant" is at all different from the index datasheet "Hive Tyrant" then everything on that datasheet, including it's options, supersedes the index.

You can only legally use the Index datasheets if it is the most up to date datasheet, I.E. there is no new datasheet in the codex. You don't get to just pick and choose which datasheet you want to use because you like that ones options better.

**Spoletta**

I can't find the original article where this was explained, but if you are forced to only the option present in the codex, then why rifle dreads are still a standard thing? They are not in the codex.

**Lance845**

Spoletta wrote:
I can't find the original article where this was explained, but if you are forced to only the option present in the codex, then why rifle dreads are still a standard thing? They are not in the codex.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

There are a few options that are missing in the codex that appear in the index: why is that? Does that mean I can’t use these models in my army anymore?

While the indexes are designed to cover a long history of miniatures, the codexes are designed to give you rules for the current Warhammer 40,000 range. There are a few options in the indexes for some Characters and vehicles that are no longer represented in the Citadel range – certain Dreadnought weapons that don’t come in the box, or some characters on bikes, for example.
Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index).
They still gain all the army wide-bonuses for things like Chapter Tactics and can use Space Marines Stratagems and the like, so such venerable heroes still fit right in with the rest of your army.

Are the rules changing?

Yes, many units’ rules in their codexes will alter from those in the indexes. Sometimes this is to better represent the miniatures and the background, sometimes to balance the game, and sometimes to better fit with the army’s new special rules in the codex itself. In all cases, these will then supersede the rules for that datasheet in the index book.

Can I combine units from the index and a codex into one army?

The datasheets in the new codexes overwrite the same datasheets in the index books. You can certainly use units with updated datasheets alongside units from the index that have yet to be updated. Once a unit has been covered in the codex though, we assume you’re using the latest version.

Can I choose to use the rules and/or points for units from my index instead of the new ones in the codex once released?

In your own games, if you and your opponent agree, you can, of course, play with whatever rules you like.

In all future publications and official events though, it will be assumed that you’re using the most recent rules and Datasheets. It will also be assumed that you’re using the most up to date points for matched play, in this case, those included in the codex.

GW has always said you can play however you want. Open and Narrative allow you to do anything with no restrictions besides consent from your opponent. But Matched requires you to use the most up to date datasheets. You will notice of course that characters in different kinds of armor or on bikes have their own datasheets in the index. A librarian on a bike is not in the codex but is a separate datasheet from a librarian. Thus, you can use the index entry for that unit in matched.

Basically, rifle dreads shouldn't be a thing unless it's a separate datasheet from the normal dread. People using it are quoting the one part of the article out of context while ignoring the rest of the faq that clarifies.

**xmbk**

I'm not aware of GW saying anything that supports the claim that index points can only be used for Open and Narrative. Obviously tournaments can do whatever they want, and some type of standard may develop. But until then, refusing to play someone who is following GW's guidelines is kind of harsh.