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The best of the trukk is the narrative game it could give.... Imagine the enemy throws a nuclear bomb over the trukk.... But after the explosion the trukk comes out from the nuclear mushroom dust with only a little dirty marks (the ork player was lucky with the special rule and it only suffer 1 damage instead 138865 from the the explosion XD)


But is true about the blast weapons. The change to x random hits instead the dispersion affects more negatively to orks than other races for evident reasons.
For example the killkanon do 1d6 shoots on 5+.... Bad as hell.
Also burnas maybe should had a point drop because keep a 6+ armor but their firepower drops a lot.... But we'll, not so bad as blast cases.

Also the argument of "is a cc army so weapons should be gak" is no valid on all units. Of course if an unit is good at melee, should shoot bad or normal. But on cases like the battlewagon and how much it cost, the killkanon should be way better.

I mean, any ork unit focused on shoot and with low cc capacity... Should be cheap as hell or shoot a really insane amount of shots

It looks like every army got kicked in the ass, though I wouldn't necessarily call it a nerf. In 7th edition this would have been the case but with the new rules everything is different. RIP 'ard boyz tho...

 Crazyterran wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Rhinos doubled in points, drop pods tripled. What are you on about?

trukk 76 points ws 5+ bs 5+ S 6 but goes down with wounds t6 w 10 L 6 sv 4+

rhino 70 points ws 5+ bs 3+ but goes down as it gets hurt, s6 T7 w 10 L8 sv 3+

trukks do not include guns either. so 6 more points for -2 BS movement is identical at full W but the trukk is slightly faster as wounds taken. it has -1 T same S before wounds, and a worse save... game set. match. rhino is better for less points but at this point that is unsurprising, space marines get more for less points than orks.

drop pods should have always been more expensive than they are but again they were for marines so until now they had been undercosted. I do think they were over adjusted btu they should have been 60 points since the beginning

Ramshackle lets you reduce the damage of a hit 1/6 times, which is much more useful than repair.

Opentopped lets you shoot out of the top of a Trukk, where as Rhinos cant be shot out of at all anymore. And before you go 'lulz ork shooting', theres still Burnaz, Lootas, and other scary Ork guns that could be lurkingnin the back. Heck, Mega nobz with combi skorchas would be kind of scary!

Rokkits cost 12 points, but the most a Rhino can get is a Stormbolter, or a one shot missile.

Rhinos cost 72 points, can only carry Marines, no terminators, Primaris, or jump infantry. Trukks can carry 6 mega nobs, or 5 and a painboy and a Big mek.

Also, the difference between T6 and T7 is oretty small, and only matters against S6, S7, and S12/13 weapons. The only S12/13 in the game is close combat right now, so, if you the Trukk is getting hit by that, it did its job already.

Yeah you can shoot with 12 boyz with 12" that really makes the difference

People lamenting burna boys is kinda silly... EVERY single one of us went 'wooooah' when the rules to flamers were previewed and we all immediately thought about how OP burnas were going to be. I'd bet that the playtesters thought (and live though) the same thing. Giving them each a potential of 6 shots would have been CRAZY. heck we even have a meme before anyone played a game of them burning a helldrake out of the sky

little-killer wrote:
Yeah you can shoot with 12 boyz with 12" that really makes the difference

12 d3 automatic hits kinda makes a difference!

Lots of people keep pleading that rhinos didnt get the bonus trukks did but the one thing that made trukks widely used was that they were assault vehicles, now with orks needing to assault the Rhino to destroy it with their long charge range the marines just wait inside and charge the turn they come out of the rhino being able to charge the turn marines come out of the rhino is huge and yes only marines can go in a rhino but there are so many different kinds of marines its a joke. Im not saying either is better but its impossible to guage what they will be like until we have all played every option on every unit, One thing i dont understand is the painboy not being able to revive models like an apothecary, yes they have a 6+ FNP roll which is great but i have as much chance of killing my biker or my nob when healing them. I feel that painboys and apothecaries shouldnt give a fnp, they should heal wounds or revive models. 4+ gives a marine or a biker or a warbiker back and maybe D3 normal boys. Rather than giving an FNP. What universal benefit that hurt orks the most I think is the heavy weapon movement reduction, in essence every army that isn't needing 5+ to hit got a bonus. In 7th when i had a good dice game in the shooting phases i usually won the game if my shooting was bad and didnt do enough damage early with softening targets i lost. I feel shooting will be weaker but pray the different assault phase will help the greenskins do a bit better

 Ubl1k wrote:
Lots of people keep pleading that rhinos didnt get the bonus trukks did but the one thing that made trukks widely used was that they were assault vehicles, now with orks needing to assault the Rhino to destroy it with their long charge range the marines just wait inside and charge the turn they come out of the rhino being able to charge the turn marines come out of the rhino is huge and yes only marines can go in a rhino but there are so many different kinds of marines its a joke. Im not saying either is better but its impossible to guage what they will be like until we have all played every option on every unit, One thing i dont understand is the painboy not being able to revive models like an apothecary, yes they have a 6+ FNP roll which is great but i have as much chance of killing my biker or my nob when healing them. I feel that painboys and apothecaries shouldnt give a fnp, they should heal wounds or revive models. 4+ gives a marine or a biker or a warbiker back and maybe D3 normal boys. Rather than giving an FNP. What universal benefit that hurt orks the most I think is the heavy weapon movement reduction, in essence every army that isn't needing 5+ to hit got a bonus. In 7th when i had a good dice game in the shooting phases i usually won the game if my shooting was bad and didnt do enough damage early with softening targets i lost. I feel shooting will be weaker but pray the different assault phase will help the greenskins do a bit better

Wrap around the rhino, if they can't legally disembark, everything inside dies.

I'm fairly ambivalent about the changes. It feels like everything that got better is better due to core game mechanic changes, not anything they did with the army. My main concern is the damage output we're going to have. It doesn't feel like most of our units are going to be able to munch through enemy units. Time will tell I guess....

Also, I just noticed that all of our units only have the Orks and <clan> faction keywords. Does that mean that we won't have access to allies since building an army is based of keywords now?

orkychaos wrote:
I'm fairly ambivalent about the changes. It feels like everything that got better is better due to core game mechanic changes, not anything they did with the army. My main concern is the damage output we're going to have. It doesn't feel like most of our units are going to be able to munch through enemy units. Time will tell I guess....

Also, I just noticed that all of our units only have the Orks and <clan> faction keywords. Does that mean that we won't have access to allies since building an army is based of keywords now?

I think it only matters to each individual Detachment. So you can take one Battalion Ork Detachment, and one Patrol CSM detachment.

We just can't mix and match different factions in the same detachment like Imperials with each other and CSM with daemons. At least that's how I think it works. Still seems strange to have 2 guard unit, 1 space marine unit, 1 mechanicum elite, and sisters heavy all in one detachment but AFAIK, all legal now.

orkychaos wrote:
I'm fairly ambivalent about the changes. It feels like everything that got better is better due to core game mechanic changes, not anything they did with the army. My main concern is the damage output we're going to have. It doesn't feel like most of our units are going to be able to munch through enemy units. Time will tell I guess....

Also, I just noticed that all of our units only have the Orks and <clan> faction keywords. Does that mean that we won't have access to allies since building an army is based of keywords now?

Yes it does. That being said, hopefully the unaligned keyword means we'll be seeing some mercenaries again. I'd love for Eldar Mercs, Ogryn Mercs, etc. to make their way back into 40k. It'd be the best way to bring back Squats too. Their homeworlds were eaten by Tyranids, but surely there are few clans left in the galaxy eking out a living as soldiers of fortune on choppers!

 Crazyterran wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Rhinos doubled in points, drop pods tripled. What are you on about?

trukk 76 points ws 5+ bs 5+ S 6 but goes down with wounds t6 w 10 L 6 sv 4+

rhino 70 points ws 5+ bs 3+ but goes down as it gets hurt, s6 T7 w 10 L8 sv 3+

trukks do not include guns either. so 6 more points for -2 BS movement is identical at full W but the trukk is slightly faster as wounds taken. it has -1 T same S before wounds, and a worse save... game set. match. rhino is better for less points but at this point that is unsurprising, space marines get more for less points than orks.

drop pods should have always been more expensive than they are but again they were for marines so until now they had been undercosted. I do think they were over adjusted btu they should have been 60 points since the beginning

Ramshackle lets you reduce the damage of a hit 1/6 times, which is much more useful than repair.

Opentopped lets you shoot out of the top of a Trukk, where as Rhinos cant be shot out of at all anymore. And before you go 'lulz ork shooting', theres still Burnaz, Lootas, and other scary Ork guns that could be lurkingnin the back. Heck, Mega nobz with combi skorchas would be kind of scary!

Rokkits cost 12 points, but the most a Rhino can get is a Stormbolter, or a one shot missile.

Rhinos cost 72 points, can only carry Marines, no terminators, Primaris, or jump infantry. Trukks can carry 6 mega nobs, or 5 and a painboy and a Big mek.

Also, the difference between T6 and T7 is oretty small, and only matters against S6, S7, and S12/13 weapons. The only S12/13 in the game is close combat right now, so, if you the Trukk is getting hit by that, it did its job already.

ramshackle is a 17% chance as is repair, neither is something that can be relied upon. seems like shoehorning old rules in for fluff but on the table less helpful, but cool when it happens.

as for shooting out of the trukk lootas in the thing might be the best use for the thing, but our rank and file boys have a 2 shot 18" gun hitting on 5's (if 12 shootas then 8 hits) or single shot 12" hitting on 5's (4 hits) not exactly game changing but I do see the rhino appears to not be able to be shot out of.

a rokkit may be better than a storm bolter, but it has to hit on a 5+ so 1 hit every 3 turns on average for 6x the points. that one shot missle has a 2/3 chance to hit

painbody cannot go in a trukk unless he gets his own if i cam reading the rules right. he is not part of a unit.

trukk can do meganobz yes, rhinos only power armor. the manz missle levies on for another edition as one of our saving graces.

while I agree the toughness is less of a big deal the armor save is certainly worth noting.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:

orkychaos wrote:
I'm fairly ambivalent about the changes. It feels like everything that got better is better due to core game mechanic changes, not anything they did with the army. My main concern is the damage output we're going to have. It doesn't feel like most of our units are going to be able to munch through enemy units. Time will tell I guess....

Also, I just noticed that all of our units only have the Orks and <clan> faction keywords. Does that mean that we won't have access to allies since building an army is based of keywords now?

I think it only matters to each individual Detachment. So you can take one Battalion Ork Detachment, and one Patrol CSM detachment.

We just can't mix and match different factions in the same detachment like Imperials with each other and CSM with daemons. At least that's how I think it works. Still seems strange to have 2 guard unit, 1 space marine unit, 1 mechanicum elite, and sisters heavy all in one detachment but AFAIK, all legal now.

it appears for narrative and open play yes you can mix detachments, but for match play you cannot, so da orks have no allies while the imperium gets to still go all super friends

I have a question: do you think the Battlewagon's "Mobile Fortress" rule applies to the weapons its occupants fire, as well as its own?

 Crazyterran wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Rhinos doubled in points, drop pods tripled. What are you on about?

trukk 76 points ws 5+ bs 5+ S 6 but goes down with wounds t6 w 10 L 6 sv 4+

rhino 70 points ws 5+ bs 3+ but goes down as it gets hurt, s6 T7 w 10 L8 sv 3+

trukks do not include guns either. so 6 more points for -2 BS movement is identical at full W but the trukk is slightly faster as wounds taken. it has -1 T same S before wounds, and a worse save... game set. match. rhino is better for less points but at this point that is unsurprising, space marines get more for less points than orks.

drop pods should have always been more expensive than they are but again they were for marines so until now they had been undercosted. I do think they were over adjusted btu they should have been 60 points since the beginning

Ramshackle lets you reduce the damage of a hit 1/6 times, which is much more useful than repair.

Opentopped lets you shoot out of the top of a Trukk, where as Rhinos cant be shot out of at all anymore. And before you go 'lulz ork shooting', theres still Burnaz, Lootas, and other scary Ork guns that could be lurkingnin the back. Heck, Mega nobz with combi skorchas would be kind of scary!

Rokkits cost 12 points, but the most a Rhino can get is a Stormbolter, or a one shot missile.

Rhinos cost 72 points, can only carry Marines, no terminators, Primaris, or jump infantry. Trukks can carry 6 mega nobs, or 5 and a painboy and a Big mek.

Also, the difference between T6 and T7 is oretty small, and only matters against S6, S7, and S12/13 weapons. The only S12/13 in the game is close combat right now, so, if you the Trukk is getting hit by that, it did its job already.

Lets all stop pretending anything is fair here. Rhino got nerfed sure, compare the trukk to the Raxorback... 100p for 12 S6 AP-1 shots at 3+ !
That is a killer and will destroy armies!!

The Trukk for about 90p has 1 S8 shot at 5+

A Trukk carries a minimum of 72p worth of boyz
A Razorback carries a minimum of 78p worth or marines

Make orks great again....they said...
Im a bier and brezel player and i can play 7th with my friends....
ill order nothing and wait what happens...

 G00fySmiley wrote:

painbody cannot go in a trukk unless he gets his own if i cam reading the rules right. he is not part of a unit.

trukk can do meganobz yes, rhinos only power armor. the manz missle levies on for another edition as one of our saving graces.

You are not reading the rules correctly. A transport can carry a certain number of models on the approved list (by transport). They are NOT limited to carrying only one unit.

 docdoom77 wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:

painbody cannot go in a trukk unless he gets his own if i cam reading the rules right. he is not part of a unit.

trukk can do meganobz yes, rhinos only power armor. the manz missle levies on for another edition as one of our saving graces.

You are not reading the rules correctly. A transport can carry a certain number of models on the approved list (by transport). They are NOT limited to carrying only one unit.

ooo that is cool then. can at least throw a warboss in the battlewagon still with boyz

SemperMortis wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I will be proud of my 70 points of walking 4th of July Celebrations even if they are overcosted

Also the majority of the issue people have seems to be with vehicle costs, but that has happened across the board with everyone else. As for bare-bones comparisons, remember that most of these vehicles are support units, not front liners.

I think infantry-heavy armies will be the new thing with this edition.

Well since tactical Marines got cheaper and Boyz stayed the same I would have to agree. I'm calling it right now, orks are bottom tier for another fething edition. Honestly im fed up with this utter nonsense. All of our shooting just got worse and our CC didn't get much better.

Once outfitted the Tacticals are around the same points they were last edition as their guns either got worse (Grav) or more expensive. Looking at a Tac Squad with Melta gun, lascannon, Combi-melta and Powerfist is More expensive now 211 pts, vs 205 in 7e. Cannot use a rhino bunker to shoot out of, cannot get in melta range from a drop pod, and adding either makes them way more expensive than last edition. They also lost basically immunity to morale as a re-roll is no where near as good as ignoring the negative benefits for failing morale. So far they have also lost chapter tactics (if this comes out later we don't know for sure it will be free).
Losing the charge attack hurts tacticals more than boyz as it essentially halve their effectiveness in combat if they charge, and if charged they now swing last instead of benefiting from a decent initiative especially against things like orks. ON the charge against orks they used to kill 5 orks with this load out, not counting any shooting, and if charged they would kill 3.75 before the orks got to swing. Whereas now the Marines do 3.6 wounds total. A lost of 1.4 wounds

29 Orks with a PK nob against that same squad, would have had 116 attacks, + 4 powerklaw attacks killing 11.33, but the 4
dying drops it to 9.6667

Now The same squad gets 87 attacks + 3 Powerklaw attacks doing 10.06 wounds, . The boyz themselves do the exact same damage as before, because they hit on a 3+. SO no real loss for us (in fact realistically it is a gain of .4 wounds.)

The big difference now is in non charge rounds, boyz don't get worse, meaning a boy is now twice as good in non-charge rounds as he previously was a boy against MEQ in 7e did 1/6th of a wound in a non-charge round, now he does 1/3rd. In other words it used to take 6 boyz to reliably kill a single marine, now it takes 3. Comparitively it takes 4.8 marines to reliably kill a single ork.



Orks also got much faster in this edition due to reliable delivery methods. Kommandos, Deffkoptas, Warbuggies, Weirdboyz all can drop units right in your opponents face turn 1 and potentially get off a charge on multiple units while your other units move up for a turn 2 charge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Perfect Organism wrote:


Kommandos, because you can get a nob and two burnas at no cost, making a unit of five half what it was in 7th edition.
.

Where are you getting a free nob? My assumption in all squads that can take a nob replacing another model that you need to pay the Nob cost for that model. I mean I would be thrilled if it is a free upgrade as it would save me about 60 points in the list I am working on.

SemperMortis wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I meant that Rhinos just became CHEAPER then Trukkz.

Did you not read the ramshackle and open-topped rules?

Marines can no longer shoot from a rhino.
Trukk hits on 5s. Rhino hits on 6s.
Rhino can repair 1 wound on a 6. Trukk can reduce damage by 1 on each and every attack on a 6.

Trukk is 6 points more and -1T.

Sounds fine to me.

Daedalus81 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I meant that Rhinos just became CHEAPER then Trukkz.

Did you not read the ramshackle and open-topped rules?

Marines can no longer shoot from a rhino.
Trukk hits on 5s. Rhino hits on 6s.
Rhino can repair 1 wound on a 6. Trukk can reduce damage by 1 on each and every attack on a 6.

Trukk is 6 points more and -1T.

Sounds fine to me.

Trukkz have a worse save, have lower toughness, have worse ballistic skill. But hey we can shoot BS2 shots out of it so its all good....

Trukkz should be 6pts cheaper (minimum) then a rhino.

And you keep forgetting the biggest nerf that happened to trukkz and that buffed Rhinos. ASSAULT FROM A VEHICLE.

The only reason ANYONE took a trukk in 7th was to rush a unit forward to get into CC. You went forward, dropped off your boyz and they charged home because they were an assault vehicle. Rhinos could not do this because they weren't assault. So what happened now? Nobody can move and disgorge troops. So Trukkz and Rhinos are both equally good now at the primary purpose of a Trukk, getting Boyz into Combat.

Breng77 wrote:
Where are you getting a free nob? My assumption in all squads that can take a nob replacing another model that you need to pay the Nob cost for that model. I mean I would be thrilled if it is a free upgrade as it would save me about 60 points in the list I am working on.

It seems like most of the units don't actually have a point cost associated with a sergeant upgrade (this is the same with Eldar Exarchs).

 Makari wins wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Rhinos doubled in points, drop pods tripled. What are you on about?

trukk 76 points ws 5+ bs 5+ S 6 but goes down with wounds t6 w 10 L 6 sv 4+

rhino 70 points ws 5+ bs 3+ but goes down as it gets hurt, s6 T7 w 10 L8 sv 3+

trukks do not include guns either. so 6 more points for -2 BS movement is identical at full W but the trukk is slightly faster as wounds taken. it has -1 T same S before wounds, and a worse save... game set. match. rhino is better for less points but at this point that is unsurprising, space marines get more for less points than orks.

drop pods should have always been more expensive than they are but again they were for marines so until now they had been undercosted. I do think they were over adjusted btu they should have been 60 points since the beginning

Ramshackle lets you reduce the damage of a hit 1/6 times, which is much more useful than repair.

Opentopped lets you shoot out of the top of a Trukk, where as Rhinos cant be shot out of at all anymore. And before you go 'lulz ork shooting', theres still Burnaz, Lootas, and other scary Ork guns that could be lurkingnin the back. Heck, Mega nobz with combi skorchas would be kind of scary!

Rokkits cost 12 points, but the most a Rhino can get is a Stormbolter, or a one shot missile.

Rhinos cost 72 points, can only carry Marines, no terminators, Primaris, or jump infantry. Trukks can carry 6 mega nobs, or 5 and a painboy and a Big mek.

Also, the difference between T6 and T7 is oretty small, and only matters against S6, S7, and S12/13 weapons. The only S12/13 in the game is close combat right now, so, if you the Trukk is getting hit by that, it did its job already.

Lets all stop pretending anything is fair here. Rhino got nerfed sure, compare the trukk to the Raxorback... 100p for 12 S6 AP-1 shots at 3+ !
That is a killer and will destroy armies!!

The Trukk for about 90p has 1 S8 shot at 5+

A Trukk carries a minimum of 72p worth of boyz
A Razorback carries a minimum of 78p worth or marines

A trukk can be purchased for a 22 point Mek
A Razorback can be purchased for a minimum of 55 points of scouts.

But yes razorback spam might be an issue, though if it moves it fires at a 4+. It seems like 13 is the most I can fit into a 2000 point army. So that is 156 S6 AP -1 shots per turn. (not including the passengers but they have bolters essentially). It is pretty killy against anything T5 or less you are looking at 69 wounds per turn with AP -1. And 34 against anything T7 -T12. So it could hurt a lot. But that assumes nothing moves, they all have LOS, no cover, no saves etc. It would potentially be susceptible to anti-tank fire early though, and also to anything that can lock it in combat.

Breng77 wrote:
Where are you getting a free nob? My assumption in all squads that can take a nob replacing another model that you need to pay the Nob cost for that model. I mean I would be thrilled if it is a free upgrade as it would save me about 60 points in the list I am working on.

Nah, he's free. Like all Sergeant upgrades, he doesn't have a points value. There is no "Boss Nob" in the points section, just like there is no "Veteran Sergeant" in the marines points table.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
Where are you getting a free nob? My assumption in all squads that can take a nob replacing another model that you need to pay the Nob cost for that model. I mean I would be thrilled if it is a free upgrade as it would save me about 60 points in the list I am working on.

It seems like most of the units don't actually have a point cost associated with a sergeant upgrade (this is the same with Eldar Exarchs).

Cool, I hope so that makes those characters much better.

SemperMortis wrote:


Trukkz have a worse save, have lower toughness, have worse ballistic skill. But hey we can shoot BS2 shots out of it so its all good....

Trukkz should be 6pts cheaper (minimum) then a rhino.

And you keep forgetting the biggest nerf that happened to trukkz and that buffed Rhinos. ASSAULT FROM A VEHICLE.

The only reason ANYONE took a trukk in 7th was to rush a unit forward to get into CC. You went forward, dropped off your boyz and they charged home because they were an assault vehicle. Rhinos could not do this because they weren't assault. So what happened now? Nobody can move and disgorge troops. So Trukkz and Rhinos are both equally good now at the primary purpose of a Trukk, getting Boyz into Combat.

Just because you keep shouting does not make you suddenly correct.

Toughness matters less, if you look at the wound chart in 8th you would see this. Theres only really two spots where difference of t6 and t7 matter.

And no, people took a trukk to shield boys and get them up. And because they're awesome. Now they can roll up and beat on people with construction equipment; that alone is cool as hell.

Comparing a truck and a rhino is like comparing aluminum siding to a hit pop song. They are two different things doing two different jobs. Marines need the protective layer much less, so the ablative layer outside the squad matters less. They don't really want to get dug in (unless they are outclassed in shooting) even if they are halfway decent at it, so speed is less important to them. If marines could trade their rhino for our trukk, they'd do it in a heartbeat, just so that they could run away and shoot at people all game.

If a bad save and ballistic were a problem for you, then tell me why did you choose orks? Like honestly, what were you expecting out of 8th ed?

You can still rush up field and drop off boys, you just have to pre-meditate it a little better than you did in prior edditions. For me, thats a welome change considering they no longer die just because someone looked up their rules in the codex.

I think I am going to have to purchase a lot of Wartracks now. I see them ironically as a star unit for us.

T5, 12-14 (Track/buggie) movement and can fire a S5 or S8 weapon while outflanking. They aren't good at CC since they are only S4 but they do have 4 attacks base and if you teamed them up with some Deffkoptas they would make a fearsome force to hit the enemies rear lines.

I'm in the camp that agrees if burnas was d6 hits they would be too much. 15 burnas from a single source was deadly. I happen to like having a wagon of them rolling up after my trukks tankshokked infantry into a tight group. Lay down a template, multiply by 15 and watch the opponent remove the unit without bothering to go through all the rolling. Bigger thing I liked about burnas was their versatility. On a per model basis they can be turned into melee power weapons. Now I hear that the choice doesn't need to be made and they'll function as both in the turn. 15 power weapons in a single unit is a threat. The +1 S across the army helps here when these are used for melee. Sadly this impacts Kommandos as they only carry two in a unit and doesn't justify a nerf based on weight of number. Consolation prize is that they are free upgrades. I modeled with rokkits for rear/side armour attacks and big shooters for ruin campers anyways so I'll have to see how I'll make them work for 8th.

I always felt trukks were better then Rhinos and despite a clear change in the way they will play I still consider them better then Rhinos and merit the higher cost. They've made a significant leap towards tanky vehicles with vastly improved chance of getting almost all trukks across the table. Ramshackle got its needed buff and looks nice on paper. Considering the price hikes of special weapons and vehicles across the whole game, reducing the occasional multi wound hit to just one increases the value of Ramshackle in such a way that it can be measured by your opponents reaction.

For BW I went with 4 Rokkits and Kannon usually loaded with tankbustas or bare bones with a single weapon loaded with burnas. Never considered the deff rolla/killkannon upgrade sprue I'll see how other people fare with those before considering. I never liked the idea of reducing the wagons troop capacity. If I had ever deployed flash gits then I might consider which I hear they are useful now with all the old rules rolled into one snazzgun.

Losing Ard Boyz is a big hit for me. They were part of my staple basic troops which is 2/3 Shoota Boyz and 1/3 Ard Choppy Boyz. All my shoulder plates were collected for those choppy Boyz and of course my nobz while the rest are in t shirts. Rest of my melee came in the form of storm Boyz and either Manz or big choppy nobz with kombi skorchas. That loss being said......holy sweet jebus the staple core of my army got CHEAPER! Guess they want me to buy more models. Well I wasn't done filling out a big enough variety of support to select from anyway so they'll get more money from me. Kunnin gits.

I actually liked regular nobz and used them as bullys on weaker units. S6-7 was a sweet spot and I used this unit as a melee source for that Str in the form of Big Choppa for all of them. I left Manz as the source for mass PK attacks as they were cheaper and the only PK in my Nobz was the one holding the Banner. Sprinkled in the unit I modeled in Kombi Skorchas when I ran out of Big Choppa. 19pts per Kombi Skorcha is pretty steep so I dont know if I'll ever field them with all Big Choppas and all Skorchas again. But with Big Choppas now doing 2 damage a hit..and this unit hits like autocannons...I still love my Nobz.

Jesus you really like missing the point dont you? I mean it has to be your favorite thing to do.

I am not mad that Rhinos got a better save, more toughness, better BS and didnt lose a major ability like trukkz did. I am upset that when GW did all of this they didn't change the prices correctly. Trukkz got better in some ways and significantly worse in their primary mission. Rhino's got significantly better in their primary mission (transporting) gained assault from vehicle and they lost 2 Firepoint shots, which aren't important in reality.

So why did trukkz become so much more expensive when they lost things while rhinos pretty much gained things and went up in price less then the trukk did.

now please stop with your repetitive posts missing the key element of mine.

Its kinda strange how nobody except a few BBQminded ork players ever used burna's in 7th and everybody seems ok on them getting nerfed to less hits, less ap and no ignore cover.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Its kinda strange how nobody except a few BBQminded ork players ever used burna's in 7th and everybody seems ok on them getting nerfed to less hits, less ap and no ignore cover.

Yup, but then again, GW fethed us with most of the rest of our shooting, it makes sense they would continue to nerf anything remotely usable that has a "range" characteristic.

SemperMortis wrote:



Trukkz have a worse save, have lower toughness, have worse ballistic skill. But hey we can shoot BS2 shots out of it so its all good....

Trukkz should be 6pts cheaper (minimum) then a rhino.

And you keep forgetting the biggest nerf that happened to trukkz and that buffed Rhinos. ASSAULT FROM A VEHICLE.

The only reason ANYONE took a trukk in 7th was to rush a unit forward to get into CC. You went forward, dropped off your boyz and they charged home because they were an assault vehicle. Rhinos could not do this because they weren't assault. So what happened now? Nobody can move and disgorge troops. So Trukkz and Rhinos are both equally good now at the primary purpose of a Trukk, getting Boyz into Combat.

The Trukk for three piddly points gets a wreckin' ball. It gets to kick ass alongside boyz quite a deal better than a rhino can.

Rhino is more durable. Trukk is more fighty.