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I didnt say we wouldnt get units not in the index. I said its unlikely we get units they havent made models for, which means we are unlikely to get back havocs, chosen, obliterators etc. We'll get a very specific terminator loadout and thats it for those.

And while the entirety of my last comment wasn't directed specifically at you, I'm not the one pissing in your cereal. GW pissed in your cereal and you're blaming everyone who's pointing out they did it.

 Starfarer wrote:
I didnt say we wouldnt get units not in the index. I said its unlikely we get units they havent made models for, which means we are unlikely to get back havocs, chosen, obliterators etc. We'll get a very specific terminator loadout and thats it for those.

And while the entirety of my last comment wasn't directed specifically at you, I'm not the one pissing in your cereal. GW pissed in your cereal and you're blaming everyone who's pointing out they did it.

No they are not, they might piss in my cereal later, but you and those like you are doing it right now. I will take the possibility later over the guaranteed now.

 Starfarer wrote:
I didnt say we wouldnt get units not in the index. I said its unlikely we get units they havent made models for, which means we are unlikely to get back havocs, chosen, obliterators etc. We'll get a very specific terminator loadout and thats it for those.

'Units they haven't made models for.'



Mighty awkward decision that one.

Just going to say...

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
I didnt say we wouldnt get units not in the index. I said its unlikely we get units they havent made models for, which means we are unlikely to get back havocs, chosen, obliterators etc. We'll get a very specific terminator loadout and thats it for those.

'Units they haven't made models for.'



Mighty awkward decision that one.

Just going to say...

What exactly is your point showing models than have been OOP for 2 editions? They don't currently make models for them, hence they won't get rules in the current edition.

 Starfarer wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
I didnt say we wouldnt get units not in the index. I said its unlikely we get units they havent made models for, which means we are unlikely to get back havocs, chosen, obliterators etc. We'll get a very specific terminator loadout and thats it for those.

'Units they haven't made models for.'



Mighty awkward decision that one.

Just going to say...

What exactly is your point showing models than have been OOP for 2 editions? They don't currently make models for them, hence they won't get rules in the current edition.

Ah, right, I forgot we have a current Imperial Space Marine that's still available as well.

 Leth wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
I didnt say we wouldnt get units not in the index. I said its unlikely we get units they havent made models for, which means we are unlikely to get back havocs, chosen, obliterators etc. We'll get a very specific terminator loadout and thats it for those.

And while the entirety of my last comment wasn't directed specifically at you, I'm not the one pissing in your cereal. GW pissed in your cereal and you're blaming everyone who's pointing out they did it.

No they are not, they might piss in my cereal later, but you and those like you are doing it right now. I will take the possibility later over the guaranteed now.

Ok, ignore all the evidence to the contrary because it isn't what you want to hear.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
I didnt say we wouldnt get units not in the index. I said its unlikely we get units they havent made models for, which means we are unlikely to get back havocs, chosen, obliterators etc. We'll get a very specific terminator loadout and thats it for those.

'Units they haven't made models for.'



Mighty awkward decision that one.

Just going to say...

What exactly is your point showing models than have been OOP for 2 editions? They don't currently make models for them, hence they won't get rules in the current edition.

Ah, right, I forgot we have a current Imperial Space Marine that's still available as well.

given the rules for it where released in 7th edition it is indeed current. the index provides rules for everything they produced in the last edition.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
I didnt say we wouldnt get units not in the index. I said its unlikely we get units they havent made models for, which means we are unlikely to get back havocs, chosen, obliterators etc. We'll get a very specific terminator loadout and thats it for those.

'Units they haven't made models for.'



Mighty awkward decision that one.

Just going to say...

What exactly is your point showing models than have been OOP for 2 editions? They don't currently make models for them, hence they won't get rules in the current edition.

Ah, right, I forgot we have a current Imperial Space Marine that's still available as well.

Ok, so you don't actually have a point. Got it.

Let me know when we have a unit called Death Guard havocs and/ot those old metal model are released and given rules.

I've always wanted to pick up those DG Havocs too.

Anyway, posted on the other thread but, aside from the fun modeling opportunities, is there any point to take the plasma gun power fist listed over a Combi plasma gun?

What was the point of this option? I already started the conversions but seems like the extra use of the bolter is decent for 2 pts

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I've always wanted to pick up those DG Havocs too.

Anyway, posted on the other thread but, aside from the fun modeling opportunities, is there any point to take the plasma gun power fist listed over a Combi plasma gun?

What was the point of this option? I already started the conversions but seems like the extra use of the bolter is decent for 2 pts

Combi bolter locks you out of any weapon options (besides plague sword). So if you want a power fist and some extra firepower, that option is there for you.

 Starfarer wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
I didnt say we wouldnt get units not in the index. I said its unlikely we get units they havent made models for, which means we are unlikely to get back havocs, chosen, obliterators etc. We'll get a very specific terminator loadout and thats it for those.

'Units they haven't made models for.'



Mighty awkward decision that one.

Just going to say...

What exactly is your point showing models than have been OOP for 2 editions? They don't currently make models for them, hence they won't get rules in the current edition.

Ah, right, I forgot we have a current Imperial Space Marine that's still available as well.

Ok, so you don't actually have a point. Got it.

Let me know when we have a unit called Death Guard havocs and/ot those old metal model are released and given rules.

Nice to see that you've decided that YOUR rules can apply to one situation and not the other.

Do GW currently produce CSM Havocs in a kit with Plasma Guns, Flamers and Meltaguns? No, you'll find they do not. Yet our Havocs can choose from the Special Weapons list. 'OH, but you can make Special Weapon Havocs with other kits!' - that's your counter right?

Do they produce a kit for Chosen?

Not like that same counter applies perfectly well to Death Guard Havocs as well. The fact you don't want to acknowledge that they produced a kit for such a unit in the past and the fact that such a unit continued to exist through multiple editions is your problem, not mine. You don't get to say the rule applies to what you want it to and not to what you do NOT want it to apply to. That's not how it works son.

Spartan is looking pretty bloody good for Death Guard.
Thinking I will load mine up with 5 DG termies, Typhus, and 13 zombies (well, Pox Walkers).
Having 2 or 3 squads of Plague Marines in Rhinos, and the plague hulk is sounding fairly amazing right now!
Bring on 8th starter, our codex (eventually) and the FW index!

 VyRa wrote:
Well, i'm mostly hoping for a Death Guard release in the near future. Glimpses of Mortarion and the Death Guard Terminators that you mentioned seem to make this likely.

Personally i used to play my Army in a not very fluffy way, depending on Bikers, Raptors and Havocs a lot - all of which are no longer available to us. While i understand that Bikes and Raptors are gone, the removal of Havocs in general just makes it hard for me to even field a playable army right now. Personally i have no idea how to beat, let alone come close to an enemy gun line right now. New units like the Bloat Drones seem to be quite strong, but only time and some games will show, if they are actually able to balance the scales here.

So it seems that the 8th Edition brings a return to the multi-gods lists of old. Personally i suppose my Death Guard will simply be rebranded into the nurgle-themed Chaos Warband Heralds of Corrosion, so that i will be able to stick with my units of old. At least for now.

Heh I used to love DG bikes and sorcerers on bikes, havocs as well with their ability to move and shoot heavy weapons


Raptors in 8 ed, especially Nurgles raptors are the BEST Raptors, cause you get a -2 to enemy Leadership with an Icon, they're gonna be a bane to shooty weak morale armies

Dovis wrote:


Heh I used to love DG bikes and sorcerers on bikes, havocs as well with their ability to move and shoot heavy weapons


Raptors in 8 ed, especially Nurgles raptors are the BEST Raptors, cause you get a -2 to enemy Leadership with an Icon, they're gonna be a bane to shooty weak morale armies

Welcome to Dakka

I won't be sad to see bikes and raptors go from a DG army list to be honest, considering how unfluffy they are.

People keep saying they're unfluffy, they're not. The background states that the Death Guard "Placed little emphasis" on specialist troops using jump packs or bikes, not that they all evaporated, they're arguably more common than things like Relic Sicarians (which we will have access to) and Xiphon Interceptors (ditto)

By contrast, there's precisely zero background that states the Death Guard don't have infantry heavy weapons, and yet people lie down and accept that.

Then there's this snippet: "the Death Guard did not have dedicated Assault and Tactical squads as such; all his Space Marines were expected by Mortarion to be equally adept with bolter, pistol and close combat weapon, to fight with whatever weapon circumstance dictated."

*Bolt Pistol*

 Rippy wrote:

Dovis wrote:


Heh I used to love DG bikes and sorcerers on bikes, havocs as well with their ability to move and shoot heavy weapons


Raptors in 8 ed, especially Nurgles raptors are the BEST Raptors, cause you get a -2 to enemy Leadership with an Icon, they're gonna be a bane to shooty weak morale armies

Welcome to Dakka

I won't be sad to see bikes and raptors go from a DG army list to be honest, considering how unfluffy they are.

Thanks

Well, I'll just take a separate detachment of Raptors next to my DG, they're gonna be perfect vs the likes of Tau or Admech, -2 leadership, they're gonna run away so fast, on a moderatly lucky roll you can for example jump down an kill 2 Kastelan Robots with 5 Raptors (meltas + power fist) without them getting a chance of attacking (not counting overwatch

Once again CSM gets the shaft, my army is now 75% generic crapness.

Death to the False Emperor, woopdeedoo. A crappy bonus that only applies against one (admittedly broad) faction and only really works for an assault (khorne berserker rush) army.

Meanwhile AdMech get insane shooty and punchy robots and great army-wide buffs, because reasons.

I built my army round a vectorium. Bikes and Terminators and all the rest were allowed there. What gives, geedubs? :(

Charax wrote:

Spoiler:

People keep saying they're unfluffy, they're not. The background states that the Death Guard "Placed little emphasis" on specialist troops using jump packs or bikes, not that they all evaporated, they're arguably more common than things like Relic Sicarians (which we will have access to) and Xiphon Interceptors (ditto)

By contrast, there's precisely zero background that states the Death Guard don't have infantry heavy weapons, and yet people lie down and accept that.

Then there's this snippet: "the Death Guard did not have dedicated Assault and Tactical squads as such; all his Space Marines were expected by Mortarion to be equally adept with bolter, pistol and close combat weapon, to fight with whatever weapon circumstance dictated."

*Bolt Pistol*

When I say unfluffy, I just mean that they would be much more uncommon than other units; they are not really famous for their raptor cults and bikers really don't make sense for Death Guard. Trikes would be better than 2 wheeler bikes.

The fluff page opposite the death guard unit list even mentions *terminators*....

It's just a huge facepalm lulwhut.

Anyway - I appreciate whining doesn't help here, so a quick strategy point. If you deploy a unit 'in orbit/teleportarium' you're effectively giving yourself more info (as your opponent has to then deploy theirs). I'm assuming - could be wrong - deploying a transport also effectively deploys the units inside. So you could deploy a rhino with two 5-man plague marine squads, and you're effectively getting 3 units on the table. Can this be used to abuse the 'deploy last, go second' rule?

Well, btm GW ****ed chaos space marines in comparison to space marines.... Nothing new sadly Hahahaha haha.

The new plague marines are worst than old ones. They lost the guns, the plague knives are worst, the plague nades and no more fearless....

Damn, an intercessor is fairy better with those two wounds, boltrifles and morale resistance.

 Rippy wrote:

When I say unfluffy, I just mean that they would be much more uncommon than other units; they are not really famous for their raptor cults and bikers really don't make sense for Death Guard. Trikes would be better than 2 wheeler bikes.

I'm sorry, let me wrap my head around this:

You are against Bikes and Jump Pack troops because they are "Unfluffy" - meaning they're not very common (even though, as Ive just pointed out, there are much rarer things we CAN take). But you're Pro Death Guard getting units like Trikes, which they have never, ever had*, and have only existed for a single army, which got Squatted

Is that an accurate representation of what you've just said? because that's what I'm getting from what you wrote



*(Unless you count Attack Bikes, which would mean you'd be advocating Attack Bikes but not regular Bikes)

That is the point. By official lore death guard does an intensive use of terminators... But now they quit them.

DG is very specific on the training on their marines. All plague Marines used bolter, combat weapon and boltgun. Now they quit the boltgun by the face haha.

DG is very used to use heavy weapons units. But they quit havoc and obliterators....

DG have lot of veterans marines (aka chosens). They quit them.

And of course they quit bikes too.

K
And people wonder why complaining? Hahaha. With the only focus of nerf, they ****ed their own lore hahahahaha

Charax wrote:


People keep saying they're unfluffy, they're not. The background states that the Death Guard "Placed little emphasis" on specialist troops using jump packs or bikes, not that they all evaporated, they're arguably more common than things like Relic Sicarians (which we will have access to) and Xiphon Interceptors (ditto)

By contrast, there's precisely zero background that states the Death Guard don't have infantry heavy weapons, and yet people lie down and accept that.

Then there's this snippet: "the Death Guard did not have dedicated Assault and Tactical squads as such; all his Space Marines were expected by Mortarion to be equally adept with bolter, pistol and close combat weapon, to fight with whatever weapon circumstance dictated."

*Bolt Pistol*

I can imagine those jump troops taking off to various flatulent sound effects.

As for havocs/raptors/bikes, etc, I'm in the "Wait patiently, like a death guard" camp. The starter set isn't out yet, the remaining DG goodness isn't out yet and the codices aren't out yet. They may come back under a different guise or a unit might be able to be kitted out, mimicking havocs, etc. It's just a 'wait and see' thing. It sucks, yes, but once 8th launches, the sprues shall flow. We know Morty is coming, as are multi-part DG and DG termies. This has been leaked from GW. Plague beasties are teased as well in the rumour engine posts GW does.

Hate to break this to you, but all the Codices have been spoiled, and I can categorically tell you that CSM are NOT in the top 5 armies.

Charax wrote:

 Rippy wrote:

When I say unfluffy, I just mean that they would be much more uncommon than other units; they are not really famous for their raptor cults and bikers really don't make sense for Death Guard. Trikes would be better than 2 wheeler bikes.

I'm sorry, let me wrap my head around this:

You are against Bikes and Jump Pack troops because they are "Unfluffy" - meaning they're not very common (even though, as Ive just pointed out, there are much rarer things we CAN take). But you're Pro Death Guard getting units like Trikes, which they have never, ever had*, and have only existed for a single army, which got Squatted

Is that an accurate representation of what you've just said? because that's what I'm getting from what you wrote



*(Unless you count Attack Bikes, which would mean you'd be advocating Attack Bikes but not regular Bikes)

No sorry, an accurate representation of what I meant is if you are going to take an unfluffy unit like a Nurgle bike, at least take one that makes sense like a trike. A rusty old gakked up bike on two wheels, with a fat slobbery Plague Marine on the back? Just doesn't sit right with me.
Also zero fluff I have read has a Death Guard on a bike, nor can I remember any DG with a jump pack...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

zerosignal wrote:
Hate to break this to you, but all the Codices have been spoiled, and I can categorically tell you that CSM are NOT in the top 5 armies.

You mean Indices have been spoiled, our codex could make us shining stars again

My nurgle bikers are chaos knight conversionated with nurgle units parts as well chaos space marine pieces, all riding plague horses.

And my chaos lord is a really fat nurgle lord riding a worm.




With a bit of creativity all could fits to Nurgle haha

Also long time ago I did


A shame now must be generic chaos terminators with no extra effect because cant be part of DG and marks "not exist anymore"

 Rippy wrote:

nor can I remember any DG with a jump pack...

You may want to catch up on the 30k stuff then.

They're called Destroyers. They were known for using 'dirty' weapons. Unsurprisingly the Death Guard was very fond of having a unit that utilised chemical weaponry.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Rippy wrote:

nor can I remember any DG with a jump pack...

You may want to catch up on the 30k stuff then.

They're called Destroyers. They were known for using 'dirty' weapons. Unsurprisingly the Death Guard was very fond of having a unit that utilised chemical weaponry.

40k isn't 30k.

People keep saying they're unfluffy, they're not. The background states that the Death Guard "Placed little emphasis" on specialist troops using jump packs or bikes, not that they all evaporated, they're arguably more common than things like Relic Sicarians (which we will have access to) and Xiphon Interceptors (ditto)

By contrast, there's precisely zero background that states the Death Guard don't have infantry heavy weapons, and yet people lie down and accept that.

Then there's this snippet: "the Death Guard did not have dedicated Assault and Tactical squads as such; all his Space Marines were expected by Mortarion to be equally adept with bolter, pistol and close combat weapon, to fight with whatever weapon circumstance dictated."

In 3.5 there were lines that supported this, and disallowed Lascannon, Heavy Bolters, Multimelta, and Missile launchers on Infantry units if you took a Death Guard Legion Army.

You may want to catch up on the 30k stuff then.

They're called Destroyers. They were known for using 'dirty' weapons.

Which are pretty much retcons to the fluff, but I can dig it not like things haven't changed before.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

People keep saying they're unfluffy, they're not. The background states that the Death Guard "Placed little emphasis" on specialist troops using jump packs or bikes, not that they all evaporated, they're arguably more common than things like Relic Sicarians (which we will have access to) and Xiphon Interceptors (ditto)

By contrast, there's precisely zero background that states the Death Guard don't have infantry heavy weapons, and yet people lie down and accept that.

Then there's this snippet: "the Death Guard did not have dedicated Assault and Tactical squads as such; all his Space Marines were expected by Mortarion to be equally adept with bolter, pistol and close combat weapon, to fight with whatever weapon circumstance dictated."

In 3.5 there were lines that supported this, and disallowed Lascannon, Heavy Bolters, Multimelta, and Missile launchers on Infantry units if you took a Death Guard Legion Army.

To be perfectly honest, the worst bit about that bizarre restriction was that it was shown in the same section which had 'title' artwork of a Death Guard Plague Marine with a Heavy Bolter. The original Index Astartes article had ANOTHER piece of art of a Death Guard marine with a heavy bolter.

If anything I'd view the restrictions more as - they probably don't maintain overly complicated weaponry that well - which technically Lascannons, Missile Launchers and a few others are...but the more simple mechanical weapons that are essentially glorified Bolters in how they function I should imagine should be a simple enough.

Hence why when we did get access to Heavy weapons I went with things like Heavy Bolters and Autocannons. Logically those would be easier to maintain in an environment of decay.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

40k isn't 30k.

However the origins of a Legion lie in 30k, as such the flavour of a Legion in 40k should have some nod towards its 30k organisation. World Eaters were assault based, Thousand Sons were Sorcerer heavy, Emperor's Children have access to Sonics and a strong assault core. FW are actively expanding on this in some ways as a nod to the 40k players of those armies.