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EDIT: Woops, replied to the wrong person.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Also if I'm reading this correctly, you can have a Carnifex Brood put into the tunnel. Since they're considered a single unit until deployment, you can probably daisy-chain them around the Trygon as it comes out, essentially popping out 4 face-eating monstrous creatures (that are wholly independent if you took the prime) for just over 500 points!

\I thought so at first too. But no. It has to be a troops.

AH buggers knew there was something I missed.

EDIT: Well I guess I can have some fun popping out a bunch of mucolids. Still though, would have been hilarious if we could have Fexes pop out.

EDIT: Crap again, Mucolids are fast attack now. Bleh I guess I will have to settle for stealers then.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
AH buggers knew there was something I missed.

EDIT: Well I guess I can have some fun popping out a bunch of mucolids. Still though, would have been hilarious if we could have Fexes pop out.

There would be no reason to do anything else lol.

Loopstah wrote:

Mr ghoti wrote:
Trygons or anyone with 2 or more sets of scything talons are brutal now. The extra attacks generated are just nuts compared to every other option.

Each set reads "if the bearer has more than 1 set of scything talons it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon each time it fights"

You get 2 bonus attacks if you have 2 sets of scything talons. Trygons get 3.

If you have 2 sets of talons, and distribute your attacks between them, you get 1 prehensile pincer, 2 attacks with the first set, and 2 attacks with the second set. Each has their ability that gains you a bonus attack when attacking with "this weapon". It will trigger twice as you are using both weapons, so a tyrant ends up with a prehensile pincer attack and 6 monstrous scything talon attacks!

Pretty sure it's 1 extra attack total if you have more than one set.

But theres more to the rule with that, the weapon specifies that to get the bonus attack you have to have 2 or more weapons yes, but then it says that you may make an additional attack "with THIS weapon when you fight". The first part is just the requirements for the ability to trigger. If I fight with a set of scything talons after meeting the requirements, I get the effect. This is true for each set of talons.

Its the same if I was a marine with 2 chainswords. Each chainswaorsa grants me an additional attack with this weapon. So if I had 2 attacks, and attacked with each chainsword, I would get a bonus attack from each weapon and thus have 4 attacks.

Well that will be one for the FAQs. I'm still confused on how splitting attacks work so hopefully they will clear this one up with a flat number stated (They really should have, at least for the trygon, as it's weapon is listed uniquely in its profile and in the points value section, and it's not like it can take anything OTHER than 3 sets of talons anyhow).

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Well that will be one for the FAQs. I'm still confused on how splitting attacks work so hopefully they will clear this one up with a flat number stated (They really should have, at least for the trygon, as it's weapon is listed uniquely in its profile and in the points value section, and it's not like it can take anything OTHER than 3 sets of talons anyhow).

Pretty straightforward actually. If you have multiple attacks and multiple weapons you can split them between any profiles you want in any number.

With a lightning claw and power fist and 3 attacks you can put them all on the fist, all on the claw, 2 on the fist/1 on claw, or 2 on claw/1 on fist.

Edit: Looked more closely at the wording.

First they all state "each time the bearer fights", so you don't even have to use the weapon to get a bonus attack, as it doesn't say "with this weapon" or "attacks with this weapon".

Two chainswords would give you 2 bonus attacks, one from each as it triggers when you fight, even if you used a third weapon somehow.

Lightning Claws state "is armed with two lightning claws" and "1 additional attack with them" so I would say Lightning Claws are limited to 1 bonus attack as it states "them" i.e. the pair.

Scything talons state "has more than one pair of Scything talons" and "with this weapon" so it's more ambiguous as it's worded like the Chainsword rather than Lightning Claws so could indicate an extra attack per attack, as it would say "with them" like on Lightning Claws if it meant overall.

Technically Fexes and Tyrants will have 2 pairs, and Mawlocs and Trygon have 3 pairs, which are all seperate weapons, as there is no listing for "Two pairs of Scything talons" or "Three pairs of Scything talons" in the wargear list.

Still feels unintended but hey-ho!

Loopstah wrote:
Edit: Looked more closely at the wording.

First they all state "each time the bearer fights", so you don't even have to use the weapon to get a bonus attack, as it doesn't say "with this weapon" or "attacks with this weapon".

Two chainswords would give you 2 bonus attacks, one from each as it triggers when you fight, even if you used a third weapon somehow.

Lightning Claws state "is armed with two lightning claws" and "1 additional attack with them" so I would say Lightning Claws are limited to 1 bonus attack as it states "them" i.e. the pair.

Scything talons state "has more than one pair of Scything talons" and "with this weapon" so it's more ambiguous as it's worded like the Chainsword rather than Lightning Claws so could indicate an extra attack per attack, as it would say "with them" like on Lightning Claws if it meant overall.

Technically Fexes and Tyrants will have 2 pairs, and Mawlocs and Trygon have 3 pairs, which are all seperate weapons, as there is no listing for "Two pairs of Scything talons" or "Three pairs of Scything talons" in the wargear list.

Still feels unintended but hey-ho!

Two pairs of Scything talons are listed on the points table.

I ran the numbers and i can't see a reason why i should use crushing claws on a Carnifex. Talons are just better and cheaper. I think crushing claws should have AP -4 or some thing.

That's the beauty of the Fex in this edition. For the cost of a rhino you get a badass face mauler.

What do people think of Mawlocs now? The ability to do Mortal Wounds to multiple units seems pretty good, but you can't charge after arriving unlike the Trygon (though I guess a guaranteed charge would be a bit much) and all for 105pts!

Cheaper and more reliable, i like it.

I'm thinking Swarmlord with 6 stock tyrant guard, OOE, two brood of screamer killer, an exocrine. Fill out the rest of your list with gant/gaunt/stealers and you're good. Maybe a Broodlord for extra psychic.

Just realised the datasheet and points index have two different brood sizes. 1-3 in points index, or 3+1-3 On the datasheet. Maybe we can start asking GW about some of these typos and discrepancies now that stores have display copies.

Have the stores actually received these indexes with the errors? I remember a while back that the 5th edition Grey Knight codex got leaked before the preorder and it turned out to be a beta copy and some stuff got changed around before the actual release. Maybe the typos got fixed?

nope. My flgs had display copies last night. Typos and oddities galore.

StarHunter25 wrote:
I'm thinking Swarmlord with 6 stock tyrant guard, OOE, two brood of screamer killer, an exocrine. Fill out the rest of your list with gant/gaunt/stealers and you're good. Maybe a Broodlord for extra psychic.

Just realised the datasheet and points index have two different brood sizes. 1-3 in points index, or 3+1-3 On the datasheet. Maybe we can start asking GW about some of these typos and discrepancies now that stores have display copies.

If you're talking about the Tyrant Guard here, it is odd how there's two different unit sizes though someone pointed out to me it may be for if you're playing a power level game over matched play.
Still odd and hopefully it just a mistake that gets fixed as its confused a lot of people already.

What's the best loadout people are using for gaunts

Thor0298 wrote:
What's the best loadout people are using for gaunts

I assume you mean Termagants (?), and really it's all down to how you want to spend your points.

A regular gaunt is the classic 4 each, no change there, you're wanting at least 20 to gain their special rule, but fleshborers are kinda trash being of Bolt-pistol standard without being pistol.
Devilgants (devourers) have always been the strongest option, no difference to pts change either (4+4) but that still makes them 1 Devilgant : 2 Fleshborers.
You'd be wanting the squad of 20+ again as having 60 shots, re-rolling 1's to wound means some damage.

Now with the fact you can choose which models die no matter where they are to the side of the unit getting shot at, you're quite unlikely to want your pricey Devilgants being taken away.
Combined with the fact not all in the Termigant squad have to have the same gun; the strongest option would probably be 20 Devilgants and 10 Fleshborers.
That is a spicy 200pts total for 70 S4 shots, with re-roll 1's to wound.

Now there's currently some who-ha about it but if we throw in a Tervigon next to our unit, said Tervigon can spawn 10 Termagants with Fleshborers only.
This can be a new unit or replenish lost guys in an already existing unit.
Looking at reinforcement rules though you have to pay for additional models you bring to the game (like with daemon summoning).
Though it only mentions to do so when they make a new unit or go over the unit's size threshold.
Here if your Tervigon is replenishing lost guys in a unit, you're technically not party to those rules as any excess is destroyed so you're not going over the unit limit and you're not making any new units.
So say you have you squad of 20 Devilgants + 10 Fleshborers, whenever the squad gets shot at and loses guys, you remove your Fleshborers, and then your Tervigon can replace those meatshields for no cost, protecting your Devilgants for longer.
This may get FAQ'd if it wasn't intended but right now a lot of people are using it like this.
The Tervigon can also provide that unit with re-roll 1's to hit which is even more of a boon.

I wouldn't consider putting adrenal glands or toxic sacs on them as they're only close combat bonuses and the points could be used elsewhere.


If you were meaning Hormagaunts...
Again the unit of 20+ rule is nice.
They're speedy af but if you want that extra charge " Adrenal Glands could help, and Toxin Sacs are nice as well.
It's all down for your points there as I feel even plain they're not bad.

 Imateria wrote:
What do people think of Mawlocs now? The ability to do Mortal Wounds to multiple units seems pretty good, but you can't charge after arriving unlike the Trygon (though I guess a guaranteed charge would be a bit much) and all for 105pts!

I think their best use is getting at Characters who are hiding in the back of units. As with their deepstrike rules you can make them the closest choice if your opponent is careless.

I'm looking forward to having two Mawlocs take out precious characters and soaking up damage before either the rest of the swarm arrives or they burrow. Three of these guys can even gobble up Roboute Guilliman on a good day!

opu wrote:

Thor0298 wrote:
What's the best loadout people are using for gaunts

I assume you mean Termagants (?), and really it's all down to how you want to spend your points.

A regular gaunt is the classic 4 each, no change there, you're wanting at least 20 to gain their special rule, but fleshborers are kinda trash being of Bolt-pistol standard without being pistol.
Devilgants (devourers) have always been the strongest option, no difference to pts change either (4+4) but that still makes them 1 Devilgant : 2 Fleshborers.
You'd be wanting the squad of 20+ again as having 60 shots, re-rolling 1's to wound means some damage.

Now with the fact you can choose which models die no matter where they are to the side of the unit getting shot at, you're quite unlikely to want your pricey Devilgants being taken away.
Combined with the fact not all in the Termigant squad have to have the same gun; the strongest option would probably be 20 Devilgants and 10 Fleshborers.
That is a spicy 200pts total for 70 S4 shots, with re-roll 1's to wound.

Now there's currently some who-ha about it but if we throw in a Tervigon next to our unit, said Tervigon can spawn 10 Termagants with Fleshborers only.
This can be a new unit or replenish lost guys in an already existing unit.
Looking at reinforcement rules though you have to pay for additional models you bring to the game (like with daemon summoning).
Though it only mentions to do so when they make a new unit or go over the unit's size threshold.
Here if your Tervigon is replenishing lost guys in a unit, you're technically not party to those rules as any excess is destroyed so you're not going over the unit limit and you're not making any new units.
So say you have you squad of 20 Devilgants + 10 Fleshborers, whenever the squad gets shot at and loses guys, you remove your Fleshborers, and then your Tervigon can replace those meatshields for no cost, protecting your Devilgants for longer.
This may get FAQ'd if it wasn't intended but right now a lot of people are using it like this.
The Tervigon can also provide that unit with re-roll 1's to hit which is even more of a boon.

I wouldn't consider putting adrenal glands or toxic sacs on them as they're only close combat bonuses and the points could be used elsewhere.


If you were meaning Hormagaunts...
Again the unit of 20+ rule is nice.
They're speedy af but if you want that extra charge " Adrenal Glands could help, and Toxin Sacs are nice as well.
It's all down for your points there as I feel even plain they're not bad.

Yeah I meant termagants. Thanks for the help. As a previous AOS player, I didn't read all the nid rules yet, but I'm guessing the tervigon ability will cost points. Usually it had to say it was replenishing an existing unit.

I think Hormagaunts are outperformed by Genestealers. Even though the latter costs three times as much, the sheer amount of damage even a single stealer can do (not to mention their improved survivability) makes them so much better than hormagaunts. Especially the ability to charge after Advancing.

If termagants withdevourers are slain. Can the tervigon bring them back but just with fleshborers? Or is it only if they had that loadout to begin with. I have 40. I made ten fleshborers and thinking of doing 30 devourers.

From what I can see the Tervigon doesn't revive models from the slain unit, just adds up to 10 termagants with fleshborers each turn.

Assuming I did the points correctly how does this look for a starting point for 1000.

Tervigon 277
Trygon prime 188
30 Termagant 200 with toxic sacs +30 (20 devourers, 10 fleshbourer)
3 warriors 72
3 venomthropes 93
10 genestealer 140


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One question about trygon prime. So it has three pairs of scything talons. So six total. Base attacks is 6. So 36 attacks at -3 AP and d6 damage. Is that correct?

Thor0298 wrote:

One question about trygon prime. So it has three pairs of scything talons. So six total. Base attacks is 6. So 36 attacks at -3 AP and d6 damage. Is that correct?

I am wondering how you got to the magical number of 36

Well that's why I'm asking it seems like too many. But three oairs is six scything talons at six attacks each. 6*6=36. It seems ridiculously crazy that's why I'm asking. Basically how many scything talons attacks does a trygon prime get

Thor0298 wrote:
Well that's why I'm asking it seems like too many. But three oairs is six scything talons at six attacks each. 6*6=36. It seems ridiculously crazy that's why I'm asking. Basically how many scything talons attacks does a trygon prime get

Considering more than 1 'Pair' give you +1 Still wondering how you are getting to 6x6

Edit: reread the wording.. and here we go

"If the bearer has more than one pair of (massive, because GW forgot a word) Scything Talons, It can make 1 Additional attack with this weapon each time it fights."

So it fights once and uses these for at least 1 attack it get +1 Atk

So in total

it is 5+1A with Massive Scything Talons, and 1D3 Atks from Pincer tail

So just 6. That makes more sense. Seems like a decent price point for that considering it's AP-3 amdnd6 damage

Thor0298 wrote:
Assuming I did the points correctly how does this look for a starting point for 1000.

Tervigon 277
Trygon prime 188
30 Termagant 200 with toxic sacs +30 (20 devourers, 10 fleshbourer)
3 warriors 72
3 venomthropes 93
10 genestealer 140


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One question about trygon prime. So it has three pairs of scything talons. So six total. Base attacks is 6. So 36 attacks at -3 AP and d6 damage. Is that correct?

Toxin Sacs are kinda pointless on Termagants because the sacs only function in the Fight phase, and you should never have your termagants in melee. Genestealers are also 12 points a piece, not 14 (they only have Rending claws with are 2 points and they cost 10 points base).

I would also drop the warriors for more genestealers. You should try to have a squad of 20+ to gain the benefit of +1 attack with them.