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Take a Devastator squad, equip them with missile launchers or whatever (I'm liking the ML rules now) and put them in a Las/Plas Razorback. The Devs can use the Razorback as cover and both units can easily reach across the field. A Razorback in the back field is actually a great little support unit, because it'll either have to be ignored and thus can shoot all game or it'll draw fire from all your assault units.

Speaking of assault units: Vanguard Veterans vs. Death Company vs. Assault Terminators vs. Sanguinary Guard. What are we thinking?

In 7th Veterans were useless, Terminators were given Hammers to hunt monsters, Death Company did whatever the hell they wanted and Sanguinary Guard were elites hunters.

I think the Terminators haven't changed too much, as Death Company would probably force more wounds than Lightning Claws leaving the Hammers as a good choice for high strength, high AP attacks - plus the shield's invul helps a lot.

I'm honestly not sure which is better out of Vanguard Vets or Sang. Guard for elites hunting, the Vets have much better options in terms of pure selection, but Sanguinary Guard look good as a retinue for a Captain due to their access to the Ancient and Death Masks.

Death Company seem to just be doing their thing as usual. Killing everything and not giving a damn, just now they have competition from Vanguard Veterans (I'm so glad they're actually good now).

But those vanguards vets can take a 10 man unit with all storm shields and still have 3 attacks a piece. I'm sticking to those for now.

A lot depends on how you want to use them

DC can go in transports as well as have jump packs. Lemartes gives them a re-roll on charge distance after jump pack assault (the only one in the BA list outside of burning CPs)

SG can do a half way decent alpha strike with Supercharged Plasma Pistols (cheaper than Angelus Boltguns).

Assault Terminators probably need a Raider. You can Teleport them if you want, but after that you're waddling around at M5"
I suspect Tactical Terminators are actually a better choice outside of a Raider.

Vanguard Vets damage output isn't that great, and you have less bubble bonuses available to you. You can take Storm Shields, but you're still essentially T4/3+

Btw, do I get this right? Assault weapons let you advance and still shoot at -1 BS. Flamestorm and Fragcannons are assault autohit weapons. Means baalpred and furioso can speed around, just sacrificing the optional heavy flamers shots? For sure nothing to build an army around, but interesting.

Also I've noticed, that our dreads are faster than regular ones. Cool thing!

That's why they cost more. Movement is pricey in 8th ed.

Yup, as can Twin HF Razors.

I can see good synergy between Flamestorm Baals, Twin HF Razors and jumpers.

Drive the tanks at your opponents, and if they get assaulted they still get to shoot at full during overwatch. Drop the jumpers in to counterassault and/or shoot with Pistols.

Edit - Should be noted for BA Dreads that Meltaguns are assault too (albeit at -1 to hit after advancing). I'm beginning to like BA Dreads are bit more now.

I still have reasons why I will use dakka Baals, even they are slightly overcosted. One reason is that I don't own assault cannon razors, but another will be to maximize Dante's bubble.

Bartali wrote:
Yup, as can Twin HF Razors.

I can see good synergy between Flamestorm Baals, Twin HF Razors and jumpers.

Drive the tanks at your opponents, and if they get assaulted they still get to shoot at full during overwatch. Drop the jumpers in to counterassault and/or shoot with Pistols.

Edit - Should be noted for BA Dreads that Meltaguns are assault too (albeit at -1 to hit after advancing). I'm beginning to like BA Dreads are bit more now.

But you can't advance and shoot with tha heavy flamers. They changed them to type heavy. Still nice for overwatch and turn 2 roasting.

Yes you can. Twin Heavy Flamers on the Razorback are Assault 2d6

Bartali wrote:
Should be noted for BA Dreads that Meltaguns are assault too (albeit at -1 to hit after advancing). I'm beginning to like BA Dreads are bit more now.

Yup. Fragiosos look as effective as ever, and Death Company Dreadnoughts are looking pretty sweet given their improved movement. The Librarian Dreadnought also looks a little more effective than before - not a must-take, or super competitive, but it does look good.

I like the look of the Librarian Dreadnought, and Stormravens are a must-take in my mind.

Bartali wrote:
Yes you can. Twin Heavy Flamers on the Razorback are Assault 2d6

Huh! Indeed, they are assault. But a single heavy flamer is heavy? That seems kinda strange.
Anyway, looking foreward to my first 8th match tonight. Wanna try lemartes an DC and DC dread.

Am I the only one who is seeing some real alpha strike potential in our veterans who can take jump packs.

In a 2k game which feels the new 1850p, you can use 20% of your force for the alpha striking, like in the 7th ed. With your podding meltacide assault guys..

Vanguard detachment with the following:

Captain with jump pack and combi-melta
3man company veterans with combi-melta and 2x melta & storm shield
3man company veterans with combi-melta and 2x melta & storm shields
2man company veterans with combi-melta and melta & storm shield

Costs 451 points, ok over 20%, but man that is real potent threat from 9" away T1 at any targets. You can even start shooting with your capt, then the 2man squad, to help you choose targets.

Now, with the uptuned plasma, the same thing above but with melta word swapped to plasma costs only 415 points. From 9" away you can rapid fire your plasma guns. Taken with the captain for those rerolls of 1, you can quite safely super charge your plasma guns in the rapid fire range giving you total of 18 plasma shots which do 2 damage and you get to reroll ones.

This sounds mean atleast to me. With 5x storm shields your opponent will need to concentrate his fire to get these nuisances out of the way giving your sanguinary guard and death company the precious time to advance into the charge range and do the Blood angels proud again.

Now that I got this into my mind, I'm having hard time not involving this kind of BA goodness into my lists, or even with lists with other factions..

Thoughts?

I'm glad you brought that up, I was wondering what to do with my BA assault marines with meltaguns since assault marines can't have meltaguns anymore.

Company Vet drops squads!

Ugh, nvm, Company Vets can't have jumppacks, NVM again BA ones can!

Plasma gun costs 13 plasma pistol 7
grav gun costs 15 grav pistol 8
Can anyone enlighten me why does inferno pistol cost 20 and hand flamer 8 while meltagun is 17 and regular flamer 9?

Pasek wrote:
Plasma gun costs 13 plasma pistol 7
grav gun costs 15 grav pistol 8
Can anyone enlighten me why does inferno pistol cost 20 and hand flamer 8 while meltagun is 17 and regular flamer 9?

The hand flamer/flamer one is because they really aren't all that different.

The inferno pistol one, I have no freakin clue, it actually makes me made they cost is absurd.

I've can't understand the thinking behind the Infernus Pistol pricing.
They can be spammed I guess, more so than Meltaguns can be - i.e. put on any Sang Guard or Death Company model, which the pricing may reflect that ?

They can of course be used in CC, which again may reflect their pricing ? Their deadlier than a Powerfist, and they're 20pts.

However despite their power and potential to be spammed, they're very situational. The range is poor, so you can't fire them on a drop from a jump pack assault. You can only shoot pistols in protected assaults, which BA aren't very good at.

In short, increase their utility or drop their price

Bartali wrote:
I've can't understand the thinking behind the Infernus Pistol pricing.
They can be spammed I guess, more so than Meltaguns can be - i.e. put on any Sang Guard or Death Company model, which the pricing may reflect that ?

They can of course be used in CC, which again may reflect their pricing ? Their deadlier than a Powerfist, and they're 20pts.

However despite their power and potential to be spammed, they're very situational. The range is poor, so you can't fire them on a drop from a jump pack assault. You can only shoot pistols in protected assaults, which BA aren't very good at.

In short, increase their utility or drop their price

It's their ability to be used in CC that's the real price kicker. Being able to drop potentially 6 wounds on a vehicle/dread/monster when you should be "locked" in melee isn't bad really.

Now, it remains to be seen if it's actually going to happen all that often, and warrant the points hike for the pistol. I can't see pistols being fired in melee very often frankly. If you charge and "have the upper hand" your opponent will walk out of melee and you will get shot up, but you will get to fire the next shooting phase with the pistol or a melta-gun, so no difference anyways, assuming you survive. If you GET charged by something huge and scary, you will probably want to disengage if you survive at all, and you wouldn't get to shoot either...again, the same. The only difference is when both players want to "stick it out" and grind the melee over multiple turns....which I don't see happening super often.

Okay, so I know at as a collective we can agree that giving Vangaurd Veterans shields is a universally awesome idea. But what sort of weapons are recommended? Chainswords, to keep attack numbers up without raising cost too much? Power weapons for that extra AP? Thunder Hammers for huge damage?

Also I'm thinking of maybe running the Sergeant with twin Lightning Claws. Sure, he gives up that sweet, sweet invulnerable save, but he would make a good number of attacks on the charge. It's probably not competitive, but I think it'd be cool.

 Coyote81 wrote:

The hand flamer/flamer one is because they really aren't all that different.

Half hits and -1S shouldnt be worth 1pts discount to me but well just give BA their uniq weapon so they cant use them.

As for Inferno pistols price beeing justified by option to fire in melee - every pistol has it, hasnt it? So it really bugs me as if they had normal price(~10) some cool builds like tactical sergeant with x2 inferno pistols(assault one can only take one:( ) could be viable and as for now you are always better off with meltaguns/combis

As for the vanguards, they seem better then dc. I would deffinetly give fist/hammer to sergeant as he has 3 attacks, some mix of axes/swords, then 2-3 guys with ss and some vanilla to soak up wounds.

But my favorite are company vets with JP(only BA thing) loaded with plasma and DSing with Captian with either term armour or JP into rapid fire range

Pasek wrote:

 Coyote81 wrote:

The hand flamer/flamer one is because they really aren't all that different.

Half hits and -1S shouldnt be worth 1pts discount to me but well just give BA their uniq weapon so they cant use them.

As for Inferno pistols price beeing justified by option to fire in melee - every pistol has it, hasnt it? So it really bugs me as if they had normal price(~10) some cool builds like tactical sergeant with x2 inferno pistols(assault one can only take one:( ) could be viable and as for now you are always better off with meltaguns/combis

As for the vanguards, they seem better then dc. I would deffinetly give fist/hammer to sergeant as he has 3 attacks, some mix of axes/swords, then 2-3 guys with ss and some vanilla to soak up wounds.

But my favorite are company vets with JP(only BA thing) loaded with plasma and DSing with Captian with either term armour or JP into rapid fire range

I'm planning on giving my Sgt a Relic Blade and storm shield, not -1 to hit is nice. That Company vet squad your planning on taking is what I used to do with my BA, command squad. Always loved the 4x plasmaguns. It's a bit more expensive now. Especially if you decide to take those lovely 5pt storm shields.

Infernus pistols are pistols that cause D6 damage. Plasma pistols realistically cause 1. 2, rarely. Infernus pistols also have another AP point, making saving them almost impossible. That's why they are so expensive. And it's not like BA can't close quickly. Who cares if you can't use them the turn you deep strike? That's not what they are for.

Am I right in thinking that BA dev squads can take 4x heavy flamers now?

Yeah. W/E.

Then time to hold a crispy xenos BBQ

I'm a really big fan of most of the HQs this edition, and now that Mephiston has that brand new sword, I'm trying to figure out the best way to run him. Anyone who's used him yet have any good tips?

 FlashyGit wrote:
I'm a really big fan of most of the HQs this edition, and now that Mephiston has that brand new sword, I'm trying to figure out the best way to run him. Anyone who's used him yet have any good tips?

Yeah, the BA HQ's seem like they are going to be very killy. Specially Meph, Dante, Sanguinor, and Lemartes.

bobafett012 wrote:

 FlashyGit wrote:
I'm a really big fan of most of the HQs this edition, and now that Mephiston has that brand new sword, I'm trying to figure out the best way to run him. Anyone who's used him yet have any good tips?

Yeah, the BA HQ's seem like they are going to be very killy. Specially Meph, Dante, Sanguinor, and Lemartes.

I'm having a hard time picking, because honestly all of our HQs can be good. Astaroth is definitely worth a look, his buffs are excellent if you're running DC with lemartes. Even captain Tycho is worth a look... Budget captain with 2+ save giving out re rolls if you use combimelta sternguard or trying out the hellblaster primaris.

i'm liking Dante because he's a complete badass in CC, and Mephiston alot as well for the same reason plus a pair of good psychic powers, but after playing some 8th edition, i'm seeing that getting charges in after DS reliably is going to need something like Lemartes' ability to get them there.

I'm really hoping once BA get their own dex that they get back decent of angels ability that helps get them into CC. maybe be able to land a couple inches closer or something.

I was gutted to see Shrike lets Raven Guard Jump Infantry re-roll charges while for us lamartes can only do that for the death company.

Dante wrecks face in combat but he doesn't seem to buff the army as much as some of the other chapter masters do.

Azrael gives invulns out, Shrike lets you re-roll charges, Pedro gives everyone an extra attack, Helbrecht gives everyone +1 Strength, Calgar gives you an extra 2cp, what does Dante get? -1 to opponents leadership which is exactly what sanguinary guard can do! Surely the most experienced living marine should do a bit more than that?