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 Melissia wrote:
Yeah, I expect Blood Angels to be out in the second batch of marine books after the first four are released.

Probably with the same level of "Whoa whoa whoa, we need to dial back the power on these guys" just like in 7e.

Maybe you'll get lucky and it'll be "Hey, we tried too hard for balance, marines should be stronger than this" like in fifth.

Yeah, here's a link to the codex FAQ:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

Should be in December from the look of it.

If I have a Blood Angels, Dark Angels or Space Wolves army, will I need to buy Codex: Space Marines to use my army?

You don’t have to. Other Space Marines factions not covered in the new codex will continue to use all the datasheets, rules and points values in the index until their own codex is released. Rules for new models not covered in the index (like the upcoming Redemptor Dreadnought) will be available in the box with the model and matched play points for these units will be made available online.

How long do I have to wait? I want them now!

Not long! Codex: Space Marines lands in July, and then before Christmas, we’re aiming to have around 10 codexes available for you to choose from.

 Melissia wrote:
Maybe you'll get lucky and it'll be "Hey, we tried too hard for balance, marines should be stronger than this" like in fifth.

Could be! We already have Razor Rush back in full force, maybe they will give us back Assault Marine troops!

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Maybe you'll get lucky and it'll be "Hey, we tried too hard for balance, marines should be stronger than this" like in fifth.

Could be! We already have Razor Rush back in full force, maybe they will give us back Assault Marine troops!

It'll be nice to get free CPs, bug honestly, it's not even needed. Outrider Razorback Rush is going to be nice.

 Coyote81 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Maybe you'll get lucky and it'll be "Hey, we tried too hard for balance, marines should be stronger than this" like in fifth.

Could be! We already have Razor Rush back in full force, maybe they will give us back Assault Marine troops!

It'll be nice to get free CPs, bug honestly, it's not even needed. Outrider Razorback Rush is going to be nice.

That's mostly what I am getting at. Free CPs would be great. Maybe if GW pulls their heads out of their collective asses and makes Dante more than just a beatstick (seriously, he is a better tactician than Calgar, but doesn't get anything for it), I wouldn't feel it to be as important.

Hmm, interesting to see what people are thinking about how Blood Angels are playing this edition so far. A bit nervous since I am building mine as a Codex Compliant Battle Company, hopefully I am not wasting all of the potential of the BA special rules.

Oh well, too late now, just finished buying the whole Company. Hoping that even though Tacticals don't seem to be in a real great spot, not using any named characters or real BA unique stuff will allow me to swarm the board with cheap Marines and wear things down with weight of fire and a combined arms approach.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Hmm, interesting to see what people are thinking about how Blood Angels are playing this edition so far. A bit nervous since I am building mine as a Codex Compliant Battle Company, hopefully I am not wasting all of the potential of the BA special rules.

Oh well, too late now, just finished buying the whole Company. Hoping that even though Tacticals don't seem to be in a real great spot, not using any named characters or real BA unique stuff will allow me to swarm the board with cheap Marines and wear things down with weight of fire and a combined arms approach.

If you are using Tactical Marines, consider running a Sanguinary Priest with them. I played a game yesterday where he brought back a model on 4/5 turns, and healed himself for the one he didn't resurrect a Marine. Excellent for board control, and charging a S5 was nothing to sniff at either

diepotato47 wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Hmm, interesting to see what people are thinking about how Blood Angels are playing this edition so far. A bit nervous since I am building mine as a Codex Compliant Battle Company, hopefully I am not wasting all of the potential of the BA special rules.

Oh well, too late now, just finished buying the whole Company. Hoping that even though Tacticals don't seem to be in a real great spot, not using any named characters or real BA unique stuff will allow me to swarm the board with cheap Marines and wear things down with weight of fire and a combined arms approach.

If you are using Tactical Marines, consider running a Sanguinary Priest with them. I played a game yesterday where he brought back a model on 4/5 turns, and healed himself for the one he didn't resurrect a Marine. Excellent for board control, and charging a S5 was nothing to sniff at either

This is a great example of where codex compliiant setup waste the BA special talents, if you have Sang Priest, it pays to have more melee weapons.

 Coyote81 wrote:

diepotato47 wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Hmm, interesting to see what people are thinking about how Blood Angels are playing this edition so far. A bit nervous since I am building mine as a Codex Compliant Battle Company, hopefully I am not wasting all of the potential of the BA special rules.

Oh well, too late now, just finished buying the whole Company. Hoping that even though Tacticals don't seem to be in a real great spot, not using any named characters or real BA unique stuff will allow me to swarm the board with cheap Marines and wear things down with weight of fire and a combined arms approach.

If you are using Tactical Marines, consider running a Sanguinary Priest with them. I played a game yesterday where he brought back a model on 4/5 turns, and healed himself for the one he didn't resurrect a Marine. Excellent for board control, and charging a S5 was nothing to sniff at either

This is a great example of where codex compliiant setup waste the BA special talents, if you have Sang Priest, it pays to have more melee weapons.

And if you like running Codex Compliant Blood Angels, you may as well make the most of it, and enjoy playing the army you want to play, not the one that doesn't "waste special talents."

Besides, the priest still buffs the tactical squad making them deceptively stronger in melee than you'd expect tacs to be.

And with the Heavy Flamer, Flamer and Power Weapon on the Sergeant, you're putting out a lot of hurt against anything T4, plus you can bring back anybody special you happen to lose. Just keep to cover for 2+ Marines

 Melissia wrote:
Besides, the priest still buffs the tactical squad making them deceptively stronger in melee than you'd expect tacs to be.

You could do this with devastators too..... Just trying to help him optimize, specifically because he asked. "hopefully I am not wasting all of the potential of the BA special rules"

diepotato47 wrote:

 Coyote81 wrote:

diepotato47 wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Hmm, interesting to see what people are thinking about how Blood Angels are playing this edition so far. A bit nervous since I am building mine as a Codex Compliant Battle Company, hopefully I am not wasting all of the potential of the BA special rules.

Oh well, too late now, just finished buying the whole Company. Hoping that even though Tacticals don't seem to be in a real great spot, not using any named characters or real BA unique stuff will allow me to swarm the board with cheap Marines and wear things down with weight of fire and a combined arms approach.

If you are using Tactical Marines, consider running a Sanguinary Priest with them. I played a game yesterday where he brought back a model on 4/5 turns, and healed himself for the one he didn't resurrect a Marine. Excellent for board control, and charging a S5 was nothing to sniff at either

This is a great example of where codex compliiant setup waste the BA special talents, if you have Sang Priest, it pays to have more melee weapons.

And if you like running Codex Compliant Blood Angels, you may as well make the most of it, and enjoy playing the army you want to play, not the one that doesn't "waste special talents."

I'm sorry if I'm talking about optimizing and tactics in a tactics thread. Please don't throw the "Play the army you like playing" crap at me. I'm a huge lore junkie and love playing lore related lists (Thus why I feel people should be suing Assualt marines as the primary backed up with very few tacticals if any at all)

And with the Heavy Flamer, Flamer and Power Weapon on the Sergeant, you're putting out a lot of hurt against anything T4, plus you can bring back anybody special you happen to lose. Just keep to cover for 2+ Marines

Taking flamer weapons and hiding in cover doesn't seem like something that works so well together.

 Coyote81 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Besides, the priest still buffs the tactical squad making them deceptively stronger in melee than you'd expect tacs to be.

You could do this with devastators too.....

You could, yes. But unlike devastators, there's at least a remote possibility of wanting to put tacticals into melee combat.

We're not discussing the army with no Tactical Marines that you like to play mate, we're discussing ways of optimising a Codex Compliant list with Tactical Marines. If you don't want to use Tactical Marines, you don't have to.

I should clarify, keep to cover as you move up the board, don't hide in it at the back if you have a flamer squad.

Tac marines in razorbacks are pretty good, because razorbacks. Also, perma-combis make them much more attractive. And bodies alone determine ownership of objectives. 13 pts dudes in cover getting a 2+ save vs shooting isn't terrible.

Martel732 wrote:
Tac marines in razorbacks are pretty good, because razorbacks.

This is what I'm thinking, a squad or two of 5 tacs in razorbacks seems like a good idea.

Core of any SM list I've made so far keeps going back to 3 5 man tac squads with plasma (and combi plas) in assault cannon razorbacks. So efficient.

So I think I've found a good 100 power level army based off the models I currently have....

Vanguard Detachment:
-HQ
- Lamartes (7 power)
- Chaplain with Jump Pack (6 power)
= 13 power

-Troops
- Tactical Squad, 5-man (5 power)
- Tactical Squad, 5-man (5 power)
= 23 power

-Elites
- Death Company squad, 15-man with Jump Packs (30 power)
- Death Company squad, 5-man with Jump Packs (10 power)
- Death Company Dreadnought (11 power)
= 74 power

-Heavy
- Baal Predator (8 power)
= 82 power

-Fliers
- Stormraven (9 power)
- Stormtalon - Imperial (not BA official keyword, so no buffs - 9 power)
= 100 power

I still don't have full equipment selected, so no raw point total yet.

Any thoughts?

 buddha wrote:
Core of any SM list I've made so far keeps going back to 3 5 man tac squads with plasma (and combi plas) in assault cannon razorbacks. So efficient.

What about 3 man Assault squads with 2xplasmagun, plasma pistol?

 Coyote81 wrote:

 buddha wrote:
Core of any SM list I've made so far keeps going back to 3 5 man tac squads with plasma (and combi plas) in assault cannon razorbacks. So efficient.

What about 3 man Assault squads with 2xplasmagun, plasma pistol?

It's more that troops fill out a battalion detachment for that sweet +3cp and are not just a tax.

 buddha wrote:
Core of any SM list I've made so far keeps going back to 3 5 man tac squads with plasma (and combi plas) in assault cannon razorbacks. So efficient.

Interestingly, a 5 man Strike Squad of Grey Knights with Psilencer is just as efficient, at least versus MEQ targets, and costs within 15 points. The Knights obviously fall off a little versus high T targets (specifically for T7 3+ w/in rapid fire range or against T8+ in general), but are also way better against anything softer than power armor, Plus you get the HtH and other GK goodies. I was a little shocked they were even close actually. I've always had a soft spot for Grey Knights, dating way back to the original lead Terminator models, so it's nice to be able to think about using them and have them stack up decently against some of the most efficient stuff going. Sure, the 15 points per adds up if you take more than one squad, but for 15 points-ish a squad I'll take deep strike, mini-Smite, Deny, and solid HtH.

Mostly I point this out because taking one or two GK units in a Marine army is actually super fluffy (historically anyway), and I really like stuff that is both fluffy and efficient.

 buddha wrote:
Core of any SM list I've made so far keeps going back to 3 5 man tac squads with plasma (and combi plas) in assault cannon razorbacks. So efficient.

I don't like plasma guns at all, really. We'll see.

diepotato47 wrote:
And with the Heavy Flamer, Flamer and Power Weapon on the Sergeant, you're putting out a lot of hurt against anything T4, plus you can bring back anybody special you happen to lose. Just keep to cover for 2+ Marines

Two of my squads have Hand Flamer/Powerfist on sergeant, flamer, heavy flamer riding in Rhinos with two storm bolters. I really liked the idea of the hand flamer since I believe it works in close combat right? Thought I could use it to offset the slightly worse hit rate of the Powerfist.

By the way, thanks for all the great responses guys! Feeling pretty confident that my army should still be able to smash face.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

diepotato47 wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Hmm, interesting to see what people are thinking about how Blood Angels are playing this edition so far. A bit nervous since I am building mine as a Codex Compliant Battle Company, hopefully I am not wasting all of the potential of the BA special rules.

Oh well, too late now, just finished buying the whole Company. Hoping that even though Tacticals don't seem to be in a real great spot, not using any named characters or real BA unique stuff will allow me to swarm the board with cheap Marines and wear things down with weight of fire and a combined arms approach.

If you are using Tactical Marines, consider running a Sanguinary Priest with them. I played a game yesterday where he brought back a model on 4/5 turns, and healed himself for the one he didn't resurrect a Marine. Excellent for board control, and charging a S5 was nothing to sniff at either

I plan on running my Sanguinary Priest essentially down the middle in the Razorback that will have the Company Ancient with Standard, Company Champion, Command Squad and Captain flanked by the flamer squads in Rhinos. A bit mind blowing how many slots just making a standard Command Squad now takes!

Is there any reason to run your chapter as any but Blood Angels?

Seems like you miss out on a bunch of rules if you go say Flesh Tearers or Marauders.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Is there any reason to run your chapter as any but Blood Angels?

Seems like you miss out on a bunch of rules if you go say Flesh Tearers or Marauders.

From what I can tell, seems like you only miss out on named characters, although FT have Gabriel Seth that looks good.

I think successor chapters (including made up one) still get all the perks, since you're replacing BA keyword with your faction name. But I could be wrong.

Seno Flojo is right-- Successor chapters simply lose access to named characters.

So playing around with my list, found a way to expand it to 2k in a way I like:

revised list:

HQ:
-- Captain in Terminator Armour: SB, TH
-- Librarian in Terminator Armour: FSword, SS
Troops
-- Scout Squad: Camo, 4xSR, ML
-- Scout Squad: 5xSR
-- Scout Squad: 5xSR
-- Scout Squad: 4xSR, BP+CCW
Elites
-- Death Company Dread: 2xF-Fist, 2xHF, Magna
-- Terminator Ancient: LC
-- Terminator Assault Squad: 2x2LC, 3xTHSS
-- Terminator Assault Squad: 2x2LC, 3xTHSS
-- Terminator Squad: Asscan, 4xPFist, Psword, 4xSB
Flyer:
-- Stormraven: 2xStormstrikeML, 2xAssCan, 2xHB, 2xHurricane

DCD would be transported by the stormraven in to battle ofc.

So still playing around with it. At the moment, minus the Librarian, this is my current list of actual models owned:



So far, I've come up with three ways to expand this to 2k.

1: DCDread w/2 HF, Fists, Magna, carried by a Stormraven with 2 StormML, 2 AssCan, 2 HB, 2 Hurricane Bolters, play around with upgardes on the HQ models

2: An additional terminator tactical and terminator assault squad kitted out the same way as the ones I already have.

3: Sanguinary Priest w/Jump Pack, CCW and PFist, Death Company with CCWs, PSwords, and Jump Packs, carried in the same Stormraven where they jump out the back to assault.

They're all really neat ideas and fit the theme of the list well enough. The DCDread is a killing machine, it'd take something like a Knight to kill it in close combat. And at 2k, almost no one expects five termie squads with termie character support. And of course, Death Company with a sanguinary priest-- which can also buff the termies if needed!-- is always a valid choice. What's everyone's opinion on the three options?

Definitely looks like a character-killing army. looks like it will work, but 5" movement is gonna slow you down. I'd expand with either DC or some mobility options like vanguard vets or an assault squad. You might be able to use the teleport homer to your advantage with the terminators, but I don't know if you can depend on it.