Blood Angels Tactica - Assaulting and How Meph got a brand new sword.

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**Karhedron**

p5freak wrote:
I usually manage to kill a leman russ in one turn with 4 lascan shots, rerolling 1s to hit and 1s to wound.

That's quite optimistic. 4 Lascannons will statistically deal 5 wounds to a Russ on their own. If you add in rerolls of 1 both to hit and to wound that goes up to about 6.5 on average.

Russes have 12 wounds so even with rerolls of 1s both to hit and wound, you will on average need 8 lascannon shots to kill a Russ.

**Bremon**

Karhedron wrote:
Red__Thirst wrote:

Apparently the Blood Angels Chapter Tactic is +1" added to any Charge rolls and Advance rolls for any infantry and Dreadnoughts.

That would be slightly underwhelming. I am hoping that this is only half of the trait. It is not bad and is fairly fluffy but on its own it is not going to make much of a difference.

Agreed...I’d have to do some math but that just seems straight up worse than Black Templars re-roll charges.

**Martel732**

+1 to advance and +1 to assault WITH being allowed to assault after advancing would be worthwhile.

**bobafett012**

Martel732 wrote:
+1 to advance and +1 to assault WITH being allowed to assault after advancing would be worthwhile.

Agreed, just +1 to advance and charge rolls is not going to do enough.

**NH Gunsmith**

Well, played against a 2,000 Sisters army today that had Celestine, couple squads of Seraphim, Melta squads up the wazoo in that Forge World tank that allows them to fire out of it, a few Battle Sister Squads in Rhinos, and a squad with Heavy Bolters.

This was my list:

Spoiler:

It was an absolute beatdown, and he conceded after the top of Turn 2. We played Big Guns Never Tire, and even though I had a lackluster first turn of shooting and managed to only put two of his organ gun tanks in their mid damage tier, I dropped my Assault Marines and Chaplain 9" away from the third one and tied it up in melee with a successful charge, to avoid eating as many AP-4 attacks as I could. Kept my Librarian in my deployment zone to grant a 4+ Invul on one squad of Devastators.

He focused way too much on trying to kill the Assault Marines and Chaplain he barely did any damage to the rest of my army, and diverted Celestine away from doing anything valuable. The MVP's of the army were:
-Devastators
-Tactical Squads with Inferno Pistol/Melta
-Twin Assault Cannon Razorback

Those 6 units mulched whatever was in front of them, and the Plasma Squads mopped up.

I am very interested to see what out Codex brings, the +1 to charge distances would be very welcome since I do quite a bit of charging with my squads to tie up vehicles and big targets while grabbing objectives.

**Karhedron**

Martel732 wrote:
+1 to advance and +1 to assault WITH being allowed to assault after advancing would be worthwhile.

Yes, that would be worthwhile although I am not sure I can see it being army-wide. Eldar Banshees get that rule but it is one fairly fragile unit in a fast army.

**p5freak**

Chapter tactics are for bikers, dreadnought and infantry only.

**Melissia**

What's likely to happen:

Reduction in price of things to match the core SM book.
Inclusion of some units that are in the SM book but not in BA
Chapter tactic of some sort
Buff to a few units that GW considers "key" to BA

Which tbh is enough to make me look forward to it.

**Bremon**

p5freak wrote:
Chapter tactics are for bikers, dreadnought and infantry only.

Yep, because marines don’t know how to drive or pilot vehicles as well as every other race, including standard humans, for...reasons lol.

**NH Gunsmith**

Bremon wrote:
p5freak wrote:
Chapter tactics are for bikers, dreadnought and infantry only.
Yep, because marines don’t know how to drive or pilot vehicles as well as every other race, including standard humans, for...reasons lol.

I do find it hilarious how it seems like GW thinks that Chapter Tactics on vehicles and flyers would somehow be gamebreaking for the Marines... But not everybody else. Silly super soldiers apparently forget everything about how the Chapter operates when they buckle themselves into a vehicle.

**p5freak**

I guess its because flyers and vehicles already are somewhat strong.

**NH Gunsmith**

p5freak wrote:
I guess its because flyers and vehicles already are somewhat strong.

True, but if every non-Marine army is going to have their faction traits apply to their vehicles, what is the difference? Flyers and hover tanks with -1 to hit when shooting at them, or with a 6+ Feel No Pain, and rerolling 1's to hit Leman Russes that can accept orders doesn't make the situation any better. It just makes everybody else's vehicles and flyers that much stronger.

The early Codexes this edition feel like they were far too cautious with them compared to later releases. And since the early books were Marines and Chaos Marines, they kind of screwed later Marine Codexes because if they make the Blood Angels and Dark Angels Chapter Tactic apply to everything, than Codex Marine and Chaos Marine players will be upset.

**broxus**

NH Gunsmith wrote:
p5freak wrote:
I guess its because flyers and vehicles already are somewhat strong.

True, but if every non-Marine army is going to have their faction traits apply to their vehicles, what is the difference? Flyers and hover tanks with -1 to hit when shooting at them, or with a 6+ Feel No Pain, and rerolling 1's to hit Leman Russes that can accept orders doesn't make the situation any better. It just makes everybody else's vehicles and flyers that much stronger.

The early Codexes this edition feel like they were far too cautious with them compared to later releases. And since the early books were Marines and Chaos Marines, they kind of screwed later Marine Codexes because if they make the Blood Angels and Dark Angels Chapter Tactic apply to everything, than Codex Marine and Chaos Marine players will be upset.

I agree. It seems like since the Astra Militarum book was released the power level of codexes have dramatically increased. Traits work on everything.

**NH Gunsmith**

broxus wrote:
NH Gunsmith wrote:
p5freak wrote:
I guess its because flyers and vehicles already are somewhat strong.

True, but if every non-Marine army is going to have their faction traits apply to their vehicles, what is the difference? Flyers and hover tanks with -1 to hit when shooting at them, or with a 6+ Feel No Pain, and rerolling 1's to hit Leman Russes that can accept orders doesn't make the situation any better. It just makes everybody else's vehicles and flyers that much stronger.

The early Codexes this edition feel like they were far too cautious with them compared to later releases. And since the early books were Marines and Chaos Marines, they kind of screwed later Marine Codexes because if they make the Blood Angels and Dark Angels Chapter Tactic apply to everything, than Codex Marine and Chaos Marine players will be upset.

I agree. It seems like since the Astra Militarum book was released the power level of codexes have dramatically increased. Traits work on everything.

Thankfully traits not affecting vehicles and flyers doesn't hurt my army too badly. Besides a few Rhinos and a Razorback, everything in my army is infantry, jump infantry or a Dreadnought. I do feel fore Marine players who run a more mechanized/airborne force though.

**Bremon**

Hopefully they even the playing field and give Vanilla the fix as well through Chapter Approved.

**NH Gunsmith**

Bremon wrote:
Hopefully they even the playing field and give Vanilla the fix as well through Chapter Approved.

Agreed. At this point it is needed to keep the Marines on a level playing field with every other army.

**senor_flojo**

They're pulling BA boxed sets from GW stores to ship back to corporate, either to rebox (new package design) or to possibly replace.

**Bremon**

The start collecting boxes?

**senor_flojo**

No, start collecting and standard tactical units were still on the shelf. Stuff like sanguinary guard, assault, vanguard vets, and sternguard were all being set aside to ship.

**NH Gunsmith**

senor_flojo wrote:
No, start collecting and standard tactical units were still on the shelf. Stuff like sanguinary guard, assault, vanguard vets, and sternguard were all being set aside to ship.

That is interesting indeed. Our time is coming!

**senor_flojo**

I wouldn't read too much into it yet, but there is a possibility that they might package more models per box. I suspect it's mostly just new artwork.

**NH Gunsmith**

Ah, fair enough. Have they started pulling any of the Dark Angels stuff, and is it confirmed that we are next, or is it going to be a dual release?

**senor_flojo**

I didn't pay attention to the dark angels stuff, I was in on my lunch break so time was tight.

**senor_flojo**

Slow in here until we get some leaks....

How about a critique of my 2k list? Have a small tournament this Saturday.

Spoiler:

**Martel732**

That's actually pretty solid. Although I'd change one captain to a primaris lieutenant to babysit the razorbacks with the other foot lieutenant.

Change out the plasma stuff on the tacs for more lascannons.

As for the thread, there's nothing really to say atm. BA-specific units are kinda awful across the board.

**senor_flojo**

Yeah, I still feel weird benching my sanguinary guard and death company, but all I can do is wait and hope.

I originally was running with a lieutenant, but can't stand the single primaris sticking out like a sore thumb, unable to ride around in a razorback.

I shifted tactics to try and keep the two captains in the two assbacks along with the tactical squads working independent of each other. Sternguard on one corner, lasback on the other. Air support where they can fit. Bring in the third captain and vets late game for precision strikes. Scouts in elevated cover for (usually ineffective) character assassination.

I feel the plasma kinda synergizes with the bolters since they're all rapid 24", but I'll consider expanding for more las in the future.

**Martel732**

You should have one capt and one lieutenant babysitting the gunline. Fitting in a razor is irrelevant for them.

"Yeah, I still feel weird benching my sanguinary guard and death company, but all I can do is wait and hope. "

They're just really expensive ways to kill screens atm.

**Spado**

Guys black templars can re-roll charge sitances as a doctrine. If we want to re-roll a charge with DC we need Lemartes. I really hope they ll somehow be able to buff these units oterhwise my blood angels will become blood ravens and they'll be played as normal spaces marines.

**Martel732**

Yeah, if the BA codex sucks, I'll buy the generic marine codex instead.

**Spado**

Martel732 wrote:
Yeah, if the BA codex sucks, I'll buy the generic marine codex instead.

I already bought it you know just in case...