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If you are running 15 DC, you need to take Astorath over Lemartes, unless Lemartes is giving the immunity to battle shock now.

Martel732 wrote:
If you are running 15 DC, you need to take Astorath over Lemartes, unless Lemartes is giving the immunity to battle shock now.

True, that could be useful. But I think I'd still lean towards Lemartes since in a situation where I really need the immunity, and LD9 and a re-roll is not enough, and theres enough DC still alive that I don't lose the last 1-3 guys, I think i'd spend the 2cp. Though of course you can use Astorath and just commit to doing the 3d6 charge with them if you're going with a single big beefy unit of DC (which is most likely the best tacically flexible arrangement because of the once-per stratagem and psychic power rule).

What's the best way to loadout a 15 man DC unit? I'd love to take that + Astorath and his Erelim (using Sanguinary Guard stats)

They gave us some fun strats to get our assault elements into combat when and where we want, but I feel focusing too much on doing so is at our detriment. I'm going to force myself to still play with a decent firebase and shoehorn in the assault elements, as I'm having a hard time making an all out assault list that feels capable of winning most games.

For example, I could spend a ton of points turning a 15man death company squad into a super heavy glass hammer, or...I could also keep them as cheap as possible and use the 3D6 charge strat to engage as much of my opponents forces as possible in an effort to tie up his gunline / forces.

Out of breaktime...*waves*

One thing that Descent of Angels does that is cool with a 15-man Squad of Death Company is that they can surround something if they make a huge charge. That way, if they have a few special pistols in there, they can blast away in the following turn.

Blood angels seem like they make a great vanguard detachment addition to other imperial armies but as a solo army they seem to be pretty lacking.

I could see IG as the anvil with some BA deepstriking in as the hammer.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
One thing that Descent of Angels does that is cool with a 15-man Squad of Death Company is that they can surround something if they make a huge charge. That way, if they have a few special pistols in there, they can blast away in the following turn.

I don't think much, if anything, is going to survive a 15 man DC charge, specially if they have any buffs what so ever.

What's everyone's thought's on the index equipment? Is it worth keeping them or accepting the inevitable of loss of those options in the future and planning accordingly now?

bobafett012 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
One thing that Descent of Angels does that is cool with a 15-man Squad of Death Company is that they can surround something if they make a huge charge. That way, if they have a few special pistols in there, they can blast away in the following turn.

I don't think much, if anything, is going to survive a 15 man DC charge, specially if they have any buffs what so ever.

Keep in mind that 15 model DC with JP naked is 300 pts. They cannot kill a 130 pts. predator in one turn unbuffed. You would need to add a lot of power weapons and/or 1-2 buffing characters to do that. Thats ~550 pts. to kill a 130 pts. model.

why would you be charging a Predator with A) no special weapons, and B) no buffing character with DC? If your using DC for that, without the proper equipment or buffs, your doing it wrong.

You should have certain units/models in your list to take on certain things. Melta squads, las cannons, TH, power fists etc for killing vehicles, mass attacks for killing screens, infantry, etc.

Death Company taking morale damage is a real issue and I don't think you can afford to use 2 CP for morale immunity. You want to spend your CP on stratagems like Descent of Angels and fighting a second time. If morale turns out to be a consistent issue I would rather bring a JP lieutenant with the morale immunity warlord trait.

bobafett012 wrote:
why would you be charging a Predator with A) no special weapons, and B) no buffing character with DC? If your using DC for that, without the proper equipment or buffs, your doing it wrong.

You said "I don't think much, if anything, is going to survive a 15 man DC charge, specially if they have any buffs what so ever." Even with special weapons and/or buffing characters you end up somewhere at 500+ points to kill a 130 pt. predator in one turn. DC is not as strong as you (or others in here) think they are.

Morale an issue? Bring a Sanguinary Ancient with minimal upgrades (Angelus Boltgun, and a Powerfist would be my choice). Autopass Morale and get the bonus re-roll to-wound rolls of 1 like a Lt. No relic? Give it the relic standard too, if you want.

Getting to use Lemartes's leadership 9 for any DC in 6" of him is pretty good, and the re-roll from ATSKNF will help mitigate some of the losses. I do agree that using 2 precious CP's to auto-pass a morale save could be worth it, but as hungry for CP as our army is, that would be an emergency option in the event something abjectly horrible happens and you're all but guaranteed to lose most if not all of your remaining Death Company to even a good to fair morale save.

I plan on running the Sanguinary Ancient along side the Death Company and/or a Command/Company Veterans squad or Sanguinary Guard. Mitigate the morale losses from the jump without issue.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 Tiberius501 wrote:
What's the best way to loadout a 15 man DC unit? I'd love to take that + Astorath and his Erelim (using Sanguinary Guard stats)

I would recommend a couple of Thunder Hammers to deal with big multi-wound models. You might be able to get away with power fists at a pinch if you are short on points but the fixed 3 damage of the THs is very good. I would also chuck in a couple of power swords since they are cheap and AP-3 which is handy for dealing with TEQs quickly.

The rest should probably take bolters and chainswords for maximum weight of fire/attacks. Even against Terminators your opponent will be rolling so many saves that a fair few 1s will turn up.

p5freak wrote:

bobafett012 wrote:
why would you be charging a Predator with A) no special weapons, and B) no buffing character with DC? If your using DC for that, without the proper equipment or buffs, your doing it wrong.

You said "I don't think much, if anything, is going to survive a 15 man DC charge, specially if they have any buffs what so ever." Even with special weapons and/or buffing characters you end up somewhere at 500+ points to kill a 130 pt. predator in one turn. DC is not as strong as you (or others in here) think they are.

I'm sure the guy that's wanting to run the 15 man DC squad isn't dumb enough to charge something that they can't kill, and my comment in that perspective is that is there things they would want to charge, aren't going to be alive long enough to stay in combat. Clearly, they aren't going to take down a Titan in that configuration, so you wouldn't charge something like that. If they all had thunder hammers, inferno pistols and were backed up by Lemartes, then maybe you would.

We'll have to agree to disagree about DC not being that powerful, then again, we'll have to agree to disagree about a lot of stuff. I don't agree with Vets over DC, a regular chaplain over Lemartes, there being no need for forlorn hope. Based on the all the youtube videos i've seen from some of the competitive and non competitive players, like frontline gaming, winterseo, striking scorpion, miniwargaming, the long war, forge the narrative etc, they are all saying the opposite of what your saying, so in that regard, I think i'm on the right track with my army.

 Karhedron wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
What's the best way to loadout a 15 man DC unit? I'd love to take that + Astorath and his Erelim (using Sanguinary Guard stats)

I would recommend a couple of Thunder Hammers to deal with big multi-wound models. You might be able to get away with power fists at a pinch if you are short on points but the fixed 3 damage of the THs is very good. I would also chuck in a couple of power swords since they are cheap and AP-3 which is handy for dealing with TEQs quickly.

The rest should probably take bolters and chainswords for maximum weight of fire/attacks. Even against Terminators your opponent will be rolling so many saves that a fair few 1s will turn up.

Awesome thanks, I'll go with that. I'll definitely find the points for two thunder hammers over the fists and I'll probably take 3 swords


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Morale an issue? Bring a Sanguinary Ancient with minimal upgrades (Angelus Boltgun, and a Powerfist would be my choice). Autopass Morale and get the bonus re-roll to-wound rolls of 1 like a Lt. No relic? Give it the relic standard too, if you want.

Getting to use Lemartes's leadership 9 for any DC in 6" of him is pretty good, and the re-roll from ATSKNF will help mitigate some of the losses. I do agree that using 2 precious CP's to auto-pass a morale save could be worth it, but as hungry for CP as our army is, that would be an emergency option in the event something abjectly horrible happens and you're all but guaranteed to lose most if not all of your remaining Death Company to even a good to fair morale save.

I plan on running the Sanguinary Ancient along side the Death Company and/or a Command/Company Veterans squad or Sanguinary Guard. Mitigate the morale losses from the jump without issue.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Unfortunately I'm fairly certain the Sanguinary Ancient only gives a +1 buff to leadership now instead of flat ignoring leadership. Which is lame, but still handy.

Really?? I missed that COMPLETELY. Hrm. Still, with Lemartes, and the Ancient you have LD:10 (using Lemartes's LD:9, + 1) which is pretty good. Where was this spoiled?

I'll be curious to see it. Will be getting the book tomorrow to check myself at least.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
What's the best way to loadout a 15 man DC unit? I'd love to take that + Astorath and his Erelim (using Sanguinary Guard stats)

I would recommend a couple of Thunder Hammers to deal with big multi-wound models. You might be able to get away with power fists at a pinch if you are short on points but the fixed 3 damage of the THs is very good. I would also chuck in a couple of power swords since they are cheap and AP-3 which is handy for dealing with TEQs quickly.

The rest should probably take bolters and chainswords for maximum weight of fire/attacks. Even against Terminators your opponent will be rolling so many saves that a fair few 1s will turn up.

Awesome thanks, I'll go with that. I'll definitely find the points for two thunder hammers over the fists and I'll probably take 3 swords

Axes are a great options too. only 1 point more than swords, 1 less AP but they are going to wound on 2+ with the red thirst instead of 3+, so fairly good option as well. If you have a priest, nearby, then swords all the way, if not, axe>swords specially vs MEQ.

bobafett012 wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
What's the best way to loadout a 15 man DC unit? I'd love to take that + Astorath and his Erelim (using Sanguinary Guard stats)

I would recommend a couple of Thunder Hammers to deal with big multi-wound models. You might be able to get away with power fists at a pinch if you are short on points but the fixed 3 damage of the THs is very good. I would also chuck in a couple of power swords since they are cheap and AP-3 which is handy for dealing with TEQs quickly.

The rest should probably take bolters and chainswords for maximum weight of fire/attacks. Even against Terminators your opponent will be rolling so many saves that a fair few 1s will turn up.

Awesome thanks, I'll go with that. I'll definitely find the points for two thunder hammers over the fists and I'll probably take 3 swords

Axes are a great options too. only 1 point more than swords, 1 less AP but they are going to wound on 2+ with the red thirst instead of 3+, so fairly good option as well. If you have a priest, nearby, then swords all the way, if not, axe>swords specially vs MEQ.

Yeah I was thinking axes but I'm going to have a priest I think so that I can buff the chainswords as well and also allow the hammers to wound basically anything on 2's too

Are we going to be starting a new thread tomorrow to discuss tactics, and our findings with the new Codex?

sounds like a good idea

So I'm not sure if anyone else has heard this or not, but I got the whole "A friend of a friend told me" treatment about how Malakim Phoros (FW Lamenter's character) is supposed to have the Chapter Master rule and keyword. I fired of an email to FW team myself a few minutes ago about that and a few other things I had questions about. I'm just curious if anyone else had heard the same. If so, having a pocket Guilliman for my boys in check'n'yellow seems kind of huge. I'm just trying to figure out the best method of deployment for him, and what to pair him with. Initial thought for me has been to stick him in a stormraven along with a priest and 10 vanguard/company vets + a dread of some sort on the back.. But that was before the supposed CM rule revelation. Should I use him as a gunline buff, or use him as a magical blender-buffer for frontline units?

Malakim phoros has the all wound re~roll instead of the chapter master rule. I doubt he'll get both.

disregard this, I was being stupid

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Are we going to be starting a new thread tomorrow to discuss tactics, and our findings with the new Codex?

This would make sense.
No more speculation, only certainty.

I ordered the digital version. Still having an issue finding a few points values here or there. Can anyone tell me if the sanguinary ancient pays for a chapter banner (and therefore standard of sacrifice?)

Tpiddy wrote:
I ordered the digital version. Still having an issue finding a few points values here or there. Can anyone tell me if the sanguinary ancient pays for a chapter banner (and therefore standard of sacrifice?)

The Standard doesn't cost points. It is factored into the price of the unit.

So I normally play Grey Knights, but I'm really interested in running a split GK/BA force of 750 points each. You guys are talking about Death Company which is GREAT cause I'm torn between them and Sanguinary Guard.

Can anyone suggest loadouts or opine on the differences between the two? They're both strong but is it just me or does either unit seem kinda squish? I'm worried either unit would land, kill something on a charge, then immediately get shot off the board.

If it helps, the GK side is 3 Grandmaster Dreadknights and a unit of Paladins in a Supreme Command Detachment. I'd like to keep them the Warlord too for the re-roll charge trait.

I like sanguinary guard more right now, but that might change.

Audustum wrote:
So I normally play Grey Knights, but I'm really interested in running a split GK/BA force of 750 points each. You guys are talking about Death Company which is GREAT cause I'm torn between them and Sanguinary Guard.

Can anyone suggest loadouts or opine on the differences between the two? They're both strong but is it just me or does either unit seem kinda squish? I'm worried either unit would land, kill something on a charge, then immediately get shot off the board.

If it helps, the GK side is 3 Grandmaster Dreadknights and a unit of Paladins in a Supreme Command Detachment. I'd like to keep them the Warlord too for the re-roll charge trait.

If your plan is to just drop in a single unit of DC or Sang Guard, of course they're likely to just be shot off the board the following turn. It's when you can get multiple charges off that makes it tough for your opponent to deal with them all, and i think that's where BA will excel. You could probably get 2 10 man squads of DC with some weapon upgrades, and Lemartes for under 600 points. Maybe add in a libby with JP, with Shield of sanguinius, and unleash rage and you've got a buffer for those DC as well and you well under 750 points.