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Some yonks ago, when the Renegades and Heretics book was fresh from Forgeworld, and the Tempestus kit and codex wasn’t a thing yet, I started building mercenary grenadiers using SM scout bodies and custom heads. I was shooting for an elite force of well-armed humans to represent the private armies of a planetary governor or rogue trader - well organized and disciplined, but prone to going off and serving their own interests, much to the Imperium’s chagrin.

But the points cost was too much for too little effectiveness, so I started looking elsewhere, and came across 30k Imperialis Militia (the HH army literally NO ONE knows about). Fell in love with Survivors of the Dark Age and Chem Jackers to give me power-armored hordes with exotic weapons and a propensity towards use of combat drugs to keep them in line during battle. But then I realized that 30k is horribly balanced for normal play, and I got tired of having to explain to literally everyone I played what my army was, where it came from, and how it worked.

Imperial Guard it is! And since Tempestus isn’t terribly good on its own and I love me some Leman Russes, I go carapace armored veterans. Not an ideal choice, but it works.

8th Edition’s here.

Well, I knew the 30k list wasn’t long for this world, and Forgeworld stuff isn’t out yet, not that I’m holding out hope.
Let’s see how many points carapace armor on veterans are… huh… not an option. I guess GW decided on writing that out since probably no one ever fielded it.
Acolytes it is! I’ve run them as inquisition before. I’m sure-….
Huh… Still no armor options, and more dishearteningly, the Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in terminator armor gets its own separate entry, indicating that armor upgrades are no longer a thing.
Tempestus? Half my guys have shotguns, and the other half have sniper rifles from the Militia days.
Skitarii? Better for my weapons, but then I lose out on those tanks and transports I’ve been hoarding.
Sisters? Why would mercenaries have faith powers?
Scouts? I mean, maybe, but I somehow doubt even a particularly rich governor or rogue trader can afford to give superhuman enhancements to an entire army. Not to mention the special weapon options for them have been a bit rubbish.

Did I just get Squat’ed? I’m sitting on about 50 models worth of carapaced dudes and I’ve got few good solutions. Skitarii seems to be the best, but I’d have to do a LOT of custom work for anything other than the vanguard and rangers - and something tells me I’m gonna need to take everything Admech has to offer if I want a decently playable army.

I’ve put so much work into these models, and I hate to see more than half (or possibly all) of them get stuffed away until the next edition, assuming it’s even kind to humans in carapace. I’ve had to switch these guys up so much I barely know what to do with them, and I’m at wits end here. Seriously considering doubling down on my Necrons and just fielding warriors and monoliths - if GW somehow writes them out, I’m not playing the right game.

For those who are curious, I have a sample pic below of these guys. I’ve got two units of twenty plus some extras, one with shotguns (pictured) and the other with long lases. I believe I’ve posted around before trying to figure out how to use them, and now I need some inspiration (or a new book) again.

Pic of my awesome dudes that I just can't use: https://puu.sh/w8LjJ/cc57ba8028.jpg

Well, wait for the full Guard codex, which will probably give you more options. Until then, I'd run the long-las guys as Tempestus Scions with hotshot lasguns, and, despite the save issue, I'd run the shotgunners as shotgun vets.

It's not perfect, but it'll work for now.

The other possibility is to use the separate unit/weapon pricing to approximate. Pretend you've got Scions with shotguns, and use the Scion price and the shotgun price? And/or the Scion price and the sniper rifle price.

It depends on the folks you're playing with, but after a couple of games approximating my Land Raider Achilles by taking a normal Land Raider and giving it a thunderfire cannon and twin multi-meltas I think you should be able to get away with it.

(Though as to jade_angel's recommendation I've been using Scion hot-shot lasguns as sniper rifles because I've got old Kasrkins lying around to be the actual hot-shot lasguns, so I don't see why the reverse wouldn't work.)

jade_angel wrote:Well, wait for the full Guard codex, which will probably give you more options. Until then, I'd run the long-las guys as Tempestus Scions with hotshot lasguns, and, despite the save issue, I'd run the shotgunners as shotgun vets.

It's not perfect, but it'll work for now.

IIRC, GW isn't doing codices any more. What you see is what you get for AM/IG, until they release new units/models for them.

AnomanderRake wrote:The other possibility is to use the separate unit/weapon pricing to approximate. Pretend you've got Scions with shotguns, and use the Scion price and the shotgun price? And/or the Scion price and the sniper rifle price.

It depends on the folks you're playing with, but after a couple of games approximating my Land Raider Achilles by taking a normal Land Raider and giving it a thunderfire cannon and twin multi-meltas I think you should be able to get away with it.

(Though as to jade_angel's recommendation I've been using Scion hot-shot lasguns as sniper rifles because I've got old Kasrkins lying around to be the actual hot-shot lasguns, so I don't see why the reverse wouldn't work.)

Eesh... I'd rather not go kludging together my own rules. I have enough trouble keeping up with rules changes using just the stuff GW and Forgeworld prints. And my usual opponents are probably big enough jerks to kludge together some powergamed rules in response to me trying to make things appropriate for my models, or to simply not allow them at all and forcing me to play them as ordinary, flak-armored guardsmen.

I was looking at Scions a bit more, and while it would suck to mothball away the 20+ shotgunners I have (the lasrifles I could at least justify as hotshot lasguns), they seem like the best fit for what I currently have in terms of the rest of the list (vehicles, transports, commanders, etc.). Granted, I'd love to try my hand at kitbashing some admech stuff together to make them Skitarii, but I don't have the time to touch my models anymore, let alone build and paint them.

Someone else asked about codexes and apparently GW is going to do them again. These indexes are just a stopgap because old codexes will no longer be compatible. They apparently mentioned specifically stuff like relics, which are not represented at all in the indexes. So yeah, don't take this as the final form of your army. But you will probably be waiting for a while since the Primaris Marines and Death Guard are the current focus right now.

As for what units to use, either Scions or Marine Scouts. Maybe your governor are hiring people with gene enhancements, extra padding, mutants or drugged up muscleheads.

Tau fire warriors?

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Someone else asked about codexes and apparently GW is going to do them again. These indexes are just a stopgap because old codexes will no longer be compatible. They apparently mentioned specifically stuff like relics, which are not represented at all in the indexes. So yeah, don't take this as the final form of your army. But you will probably be waiting for a while since the Primaris Marines and Death Guard are the current focus right now.

As for what units to use, either Scions or Marine Scouts. Maybe your governor are hiring people with gene enhancements, extra padding, mutants or drugged up muscleheads.

Much as I can barely stomach doing SM, that might have to be a direction to try out. Most of the special weapon guys will have to go into deep storage, but at least all the basic guys will be useful. The guard vehicles I have will be an issue, though.

GreenShoes wrote:Tau fire warriors?

Points for creativity, but sweet jeebus no. I had enough trouble explaining to people that the guys that looked like T4 guys in carapace armor were T3 guys in carapace armor. If I had to do elaborate counts-as Tau conversions, I would never get a game in between explaining what everything is - though the idea of a hover-taurox is kind of cool.

Might still just eat half my models and go with Tempestus. They make the most sense, and I have another 40 dudes I could use as conscripts/guardsmen. Don't suppose Forgeworld has any plans to come out with guardsmen listed as having carapace? Death Korps, anyone?

codexes will be a thing, it is just the indexes are all you need to get going and give you a good idea of what armies do. your army will certainly be viable in narrative and open play but muight not be tournament useable with current system where match play has to be battleforged so share a keyword

You have fallen victim to "we don't sell it so no rules for you". No Carapace Armor Guard models, so no Carapace model Guard rules.

Strange thought: You could just play them as Guard Veterans and live with the fact they are just T 3 with a 5+ save. Everything else will work.

Huh, if you're playing Open/Narrative mostly, you could even play the shotgunners as Marine scouts and the snipers as Scions, in two detachments (sharing the Imperium keyword). The meltagunners can be Scions too.

G00fySmiley wrote:codexes will be a thing, it is just the indexes are all you need to get going and give you a good idea of what armies do. your army will certainly be viable in narrative and open play but muight not be tournament useable with current system where match play has to be battleforged so share a keyword

Well, even so, I feel like codices that grant back what was lost are going to be a long time coming. I guess it's fortunate all Imperium stuff is rolled together under many of the same keywords to give me some kind of option in scraping a list together with what I have. I'm just sick of having to completely rework the army with every shift in the rules to the point I can no longer tell people what army my models even belong to. It's frustrating to have to say 'these are my mercenary-renegade-militia-guardsmen-skitarii-counts-as-space-marine-scouts-and-sisters army, but today they're etc.' I'd like to either have some solid 'home' rule set for them to stick with, or just give up and shelve them in favor of something more stable, or even just leave the game altogether if each edition release is going to snipe whatever army style I've picked.

alextroy wrote:You have fallen victim to "we don't sell it so no rules for you". No Carapace Armor Guard models, so no Carapace model Guard rules.

Strange thought: You could just play them as Guard Veterans and live with the fact they are just T 3 with a 5+ save. Everything else will work.

This wouldn't be the first time the 'no model, so no rules anymore' thing popped up for me.
And if the not having carapace armor wasn't a big deal, I wouldn't have bought so many scouts. I already have plenty of models for guardsmen in measly flak armor. I'm also one of those crazy sorts of people that doesn't even like to field unpainted/unfinished models, so... yah.

jade_angel wrote:Huh, if you're playing Open/Narrative mostly, you could even play the shotgunners as Marine scouts and the snipers as Scions, in two detachments (sharing the Imperium keyword). The meltagunners can be Scions too.

Possible, but the issue then becomes that I have two sets of very similar looking models with very different rules. That's why I considered Skitarii - use the snipers as the long-ranged guys, and the shotguns as the short-ranged guys.

I might have to continue to sit on this until me and my friends get our books in so I can properly scour the rules, but considering that my armies haven't survived 6th and 7th edition, I'm not exactly holding my breath.

Trying to find a bright spot here, but... eh.

Axle_Gear wrote:

jade_angel wrote:Well, wait for the full Guard codex, which will probably give you more options. Until then, I'd run the long-las guys as Tempestus Scions with hotshot lasguns, and, despite the save issue, I'd run the shotgunners as shotgun vets.

It's not perfect, but it'll work for now.

IIRC, GW isn't doing codices any more. What you see is what you get for AM/IG, until they release new units/models for them.

AnomanderRake wrote:The other possibility is to use the separate unit/weapon pricing to approximate. Pretend you've got Scions with shotguns, and use the Scion price and the shotgun price? And/or the Scion price and the sniper rifle price.

It depends on the folks you're playing with, but after a couple of games approximating my Land Raider Achilles by taking a normal Land Raider and giving it a thunderfire cannon and twin multi-meltas I think you should be able to get away with it.

(Though as to jade_angel's recommendation I've been using Scion hot-shot lasguns as sniper rifles because I've got old Kasrkins lying around to be the actual hot-shot lasguns, so I don't see why the reverse wouldn't work.)

Eesh... I'd rather not go kludging together my own rules. I have enough trouble keeping up with rules changes using just the stuff GW and Forgeworld prints. And my usual opponents are probably big enough jerks to kludge together some powergamed rules in response to me trying to make things appropriate for my models, or to simply not allow them at all and forcing me to play them as ordinary, flak-armored guardsmen.

I was looking at Scions a bit more, and while it would suck to mothball away the 20+ shotgunners I have (the lasrifles I could at least justify as hotshot lasguns), they seem like the best fit for what I currently have in terms of the rest of the list (vehicles, transports, commanders, etc.). Granted, I'd love to try my hand at kitbashing some admech stuff together to make them Skitarii, but I don't have the time to touch my models anymore, let alone build and paint them.

GW has stated multiple times that proper codexes are coming in time. This is just like 3rd edition. These are starter codexes to get everyone by until the proper full codexes get released. Every single army lost extra options, relics, and the like, because they're getting crammed into indexes 6 at a time.

Give it time, vets will be back with doctrines. Orks are freaking out over lost of heavy armor, I've heard space marines are freaking out over losing artificer armor, IG also lost its vehicle equipment table, everyone lost relics, etc. etc. etc.

Yeah it's weird they couldn't be bothered to include that of all things. Should've been simple to have veterans keep the option for carapace. Or just include a wargear price for carapace and give it to the models who could take it before, but give it a special name in case people were worried they had to pay for it on scions or something. Like "carapace reinforcements" or something. Everyone who could take it has flak so it wouldn't have led to pricing issues either.

I think it is kind of stupid, giving everyone half rules, some of which can't work much at all on there own.

Why can't you use them? Is someone going to call the wargaming police on you?

I like that you uploaded those pictures to a website which has the name Puu.

They look super inquisition-y I'd forget the save and just run them that way. They would look nice being led by that new female inquisitor from the fall of cadia, throw in that old retro one with the inferno pistol and it looks like you got some Salem style wich hunters.

Axle_Gear wrote:
Some yonks ago, , I started building mercenary grenadiers using SM scout bodies and custom heads. I was shooting for an elite force of well-armed humans to represent the private armies of a planetary governor or rogue trader - well organized and disciplined, but prone to going off and serving their own interests, much to the Imperium’s chagrin.

Love it!!

I did the same thing back in 3rd ed....but I went the other way. I made a PDF army for hire for the Knight Worlds. Off World Legionairres ...or Knight O.W.L.'s
(fluff after the old films about the French Foreign Legion fighting to the last man in some fort) Using the rules for Hive Gangers or PDF, my units of mercenaries had AutoGuns and no armor and loads of VDR vehicles that were underwhelming compared to GW vehicles. No high tech lasguns for these grunts... But they did manage to get 1 Leman Russ tank as the units Flag Tank. lol


Nice army btw.

B...but they said no model would be invalidated...

Yeah like that was a promise they'd ever keep.

Just say they're not in carapace. Like 10% of people will even be able to tell.

You do know you can put everything with the imperium keyword in the same detachment, right?

Use the admech statlines for your guys, and run ll the tanks you want with them.

hobojebus wrote:
B...but they said no model would be invalidated...

Yeah like that was a promise they'd ever keep.

I'm pretty sure they said there will be rules for all the models they "sell". As in currently sell, not sold at some point in the past and certainly not something someone converted. There are no Carapace Armor Guard models on the GW website, so no rules.

If you want to talk about failures, they messed up the swap out options on a number of units to make it impossible to have a Ranged Weapon and a Melee Weapon despite the fact that they do sell models armed that way.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
You do know you can put everything with the imperium keyword in the same detachment, right?

Use the admech statlines for your guys, and run ll the tanks you want with them.

This. The only problem is the transports, as those are restricted. But run your carapace dudes as skitarii, and the tanks as IG tanks. They can all be in the same detachment.


But yes, it utterly sucks that they've removed options that previously existed. I'm sure a lot of people have modelled some IG guys in carapace, I sure have. Inquisition's options are terribly mauled as well, personally I'm really peeved about that. And I perfectly understand the WYSIWYG OCD, I'm like that too.

 Crimson wrote:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
You do know you can put everything with the imperium keyword in the same detachment, right?

Use the admech statlines for your guys, and run ll the tanks you want with them.

This. The only problem is the transports, as those are restricted. But run your carapace dudes as skitarii, and the tanks as IG tanks. They can all be in the same detachment.


But yes, it utterly sucks that they've removed options that previously existed. I'm sure a lot of people have modelled some IG guys in carapace, I sure have. Inquisition's options are terribly mauled as well, personally I'm really peeved about that. And I perfectly understand the WYSIWYG OCD, I'm like that too.

Yeh... The transports are a little bit of an issue. I've been hoarding tauroxes, and I have a REALLY awesome conversion on one. I'll have to post a pic when I can get one - I gave it rear treads, front wheels, and used the hull of an old chimera to add a proper turret to the top. I suppose I could at least take solace in that I only spent money and not time on more of them - got three or so on sprue and stored away. Guess they'll stay stored for a good while longer.

And the acolyte mauling, jeez... I loved running them in power armor and storm bolters. I didn't even care about the Ld 7 at the time - They're mercenaries, they would run if a few too many died for their comfort. But now? Why not just run veteran guardsmen? I didn't have a good look at their options, but something tells me that anything acolytes do now guard can do better and in greater quantities.

Also, I appreciate at least one other person wanting so semblance of WYSIWYG. My usual crew would rather I rush out 2000-3000 point games with them and play with empty bases and unprimed models than, y'know, play smaller games that I actually have the models for.

I already have plenty of models for guardsmen in measly flak armor

Could you use your tauroxes to transport these guys?

Run your carapace dudes as skitarii and your flak dudes as IG. Then the flak guys can ride the tauroxes while the carapace guys have to footslog.

Are Stormtroopers still in the Imperial Guard codex?

Take the points cost without weapons for Stormtroopers, add the weapons cost for Space Marine scouts/Imperial Guard Veterans/Imperial Guard (err on the more expensive side if they're different prices). Take a detachment that gives mandatory/maximum number of units Elites.

I doubt anyone will care if they're not exactly right. They're cool.