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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I'm playing my first casual tournament tomorrow running my word bearer painted army as Alpha Legion. Surprise Melon Farmers. I'm using 3 brutes each with a melee and reamed weapon.

In my test games the -1 to be hot actually helped them not get popped round one.

I totally agree, though, that this isn't the reason to play AL.
   
Made in us
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





-1 to hit, the infiltrate stratagem, and the blade of the hydra are all good reasons to play AL.
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

I’m not a fan of counts-as-Chapter/legion-with-great-rules, I’ve been running my Word Bearers with a focus on Sorcerers and daemonic units with a detachment of daemons bringing a useful locus. Legion trait’s worked out ok on my Havocs, even if it hasn’t saved as many of them as a straight -1 to be hit would have done. It’s a viable fluff build, hell we invented the Defiler, let’s get some mileage out of it

   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
-1 to hit, the infiltrate stratagem, and the blade of the hydra are all good reasons to play AL.

Well that and forcing your opponent to play wack-a-mole with your characters via I am Alpharius.
   
Made in us
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





Yeah, that too! Lots of reasons.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 lindsay40k wrote:
I’m not a fan of counts-as-Chapter/legion-with-great-rules, I’ve been running my Word Bearers with a focus on Sorcerers and daemonic units with a detachment of daemons bringing a useful locus. Legion trait’s worked out ok on my Havocs, even if it hasn’t saved as many of them as a straight -1 to be hit would have done. It’s a viable fluff build, hell we invented the Defiler, let’s get some mileage out of it


Quite Franky, me either. Next game I'll be back to WB with Skarbrand and his 20 hounds.

ATSKNF actually helps a lot, but for this particular game series i have to trudge up the field into 15 lascannons.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
-1 to hit, the infiltrate stratagem, and the blade of the hydra are all good reasons to play AL.

Well that and forcing your opponent to play wack-a-mole with your characters via I am Alpharius.

That really only works if you have 3 or more characters running around to be fair.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
Yeah, that too! Lots of reasons.

While AL is the strongest TAC choice, I feel most of the legions can be used reasonably well for TAC lists. The ones that can't I feel are going to be Night Lords (who get screwed when your opponent ignores morale), and Word Bearers (who suffer by how summoning has changed and basically getting ATSKNF as a chapter tactic). Renegades are a little hampered by the lack of a legion relic choice and strategem (as well as losing VotLW as an option) but otherwise I feel they're competent, if a little less flavorful in terms of rules.

In the codex Khorne feels fairly strong, especially since Chaos is geared more towards melee than shooting, with Slaanesh being a solid second choice (and the best choice for shooting armies, especially against Imperials as their Icon can serve as a solid defensive upgrade in melee).

Nurgle and Tzeentch feel the weakest of the options, but seeing as they have codexes representing the pinnacle of their aspects I can understand why that might be. Though Nurgle seems to like the Night Lords a lot so it's not too bad.

It's my random thought that if/when we get World Eaters and Emperor's Children as books the Heretic Astartes book might end up being the Chaos Undivided book with less god inspired boons when compared to the dedicated legions. That said, it'd give the undivided room to expand out into new directions while allowing the god specific stuff to more heavilly lean into their respective god's aspects in term of design.

Basically, we could end up with something like the Chaos Daemons where the gods each get units that look and feel different model wise from each other while still being part of a greater whole, and then the undivided arm can pursue a more generalist corruption of the Marines in terms of design (ala Dark Vengence models).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
-1 to hit, the infiltrate stratagem, and the blade of the hydra are all good reasons to play AL.

Well that and forcing your opponent to play wack-a-mole with your characters via I am Alpharius.

That really only works if you have 3 or more characters running around to be fair.

Considering that most of our characters provide good synergy for the army, running around at least three isn't really a hard choice. I mean a DP, Lord and Sorceror are all good choices and that's three right there off the bat.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/21 17:28:09


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

Having options makes decision making so much more difficult lol.

So I'm still trying to come up with a decent army build around my Spartan. It's become trickier as I've been definitely wanting a Daemon Prince in my army, and I've now noticed that the DeathGuard and ThousandSons Princes are both significantly better than the vanilla one, for the same points cost. Feels weird to get a vanilla prince for the same points that's just worse.

Anyway -

So the difficulty I'm having is finding a balance for troops. I wan't to make an elite army with minimal model count, which means having to be very picky with my troops choices for detachments. If I go with Alpha Legion for example, and fill my spartan with Berserkers, I'd still need at least 3x10 conscripts eating up 120pts in order to fulfill requirements.

This unfortunately limits me a bit. The best two options i've come up with -

Death Guard Spartan:
7 Plague Marines
7 Plague Marines
3 Deathshroud Terminators
2 Foul Blightspawn
1 Lord
1 Sorcerer

Huge Points Sink! But the DP flying beside it can give it Miasma for -1 to hit, -2 with Smoke if I want to. Leaves me a few points for some other units like Maulerfiends/Decimators for other threats. If it gets into close range, the outpouring units will be throwing out a lot of nasty grenades and flamers. Fills out 2 of my troops choices, so only need a squad of cultists or pox walkers.

Alternative DG Spartan -
10 Plague Marines
10 Poxwalkers
Foul Blightspawn
Typhus
Lord

Fair bit cheaper, but the poxwalkers obviously aren't in the same league as Deathshroud. But with Typhus around, and popping out right into the enemy's face without having to walk... might do something.


Undivided Spartan:
5x Berzerkers
5x Berzerkers
10x Noise Marines
Lord
Sorcerer

Potent units in general, and is possibly the more well rounded spartan loadout. However this means a much worse Daemon Prince, and more points spent on troops taxes. (I'd probably be Alpha Legion (Nurgle or Slaanesh, giving spartan -1 to hit or a 5+ FnP with psychic prince) for fluff, but none of the legion traits really help with this list much. Could be Emp.children for noise marine troops though.)


This got long.
   
Made in us
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





Eaton Rapids, MI

The DPs are priced that way (I believe) is because the generic CSM ones get a Legion Trait.

That aside, the DG one with Disgustingly Resilient seems a lot better than any of the CSM ones.

Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

 Brymm wrote:
The DPs are priced that way (I believe) is because the generic CSM ones get a Legion Trait.

That aside, the DG one with Disgustingly Resilient seems a lot better than any of the CSM ones.


Interesting, I know the codex ones get a legion trait, but I'd assumed that the DG and TS ones also got their legion traits. But I looked closer, and while the TS legion trait affects all PSYKER units, their Prince isn't actually a PSYKER keyword unit (I would have expected it to be, but I never actually checked).

So it seems to be:

DG = Disgustingly Resilient, Plague Spewer option
Vanilla = Best options are probably -1 to hit over 12"?, Warp Bolter Option
TS = 4++ save, 1 extra psychic power.

So TS seems the best, DG still pretty good, Vanilla is a little more customisable with their choice of psychic powers depending on if nurgle/tzeentch/slaanesh.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




The psykers keyword mistake has been corrected in the faq

DFTT 
   
Made in us
Thrall Wizard of Tzeentch




Tzeentch has great synergy with obliterators, since a tzeentch daemon prince can give obliterators reroll wounds and hits, and a second votl as a psychic power. Before the beta rules, five sets of obliterators were completely broken like that and would table people turn two
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

Captyn_Bob wrote:
The psykers keyword mistake has been corrected in the faq


Oh wow... so the TS daemon prince gets 4++, Two Powers, AND a legion trait. For the same price as a vanilla Prince, which gets just a trait.

And the DG Prince doesn't get a trait at all, or two powers, but gets a 5+++ instead of a 4++ which is at least comparable.

What a mess.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Niiru wrote:
Captyn_Bob wrote:
The psykers keyword mistake has been corrected in the faq


Oh wow... so the TS daemon prince gets 4++, Two Powers, AND a legion trait. For the same price as a vanilla Prince, which gets just a trait.

And the DG Prince doesn't get a trait at all, or two powers, but gets a 5+++ instead of a 4++ which is at least comparable.

What a mess.

He can use the trait if you're buying him a range weapon. DG ones get the Plague Spewer on top of having access to the Warp Bolter right?

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Niiru wrote:
Captyn_Bob wrote:
The psykers keyword mistake has been corrected in the faq


Oh wow... so the TS daemon prince gets 4++, Two Powers, AND a legion trait. For the same price as a vanilla Prince, which gets just a trait.

And the DG Prince doesn't get a trait at all, or two powers, but gets a 5+++ instead of a 4++ which is at least comparable.

What a mess.

He can use the trait if you're buying him a range weapon. DG ones get the Plague Spewer on top of having access to the Warp Bolter right?



Death Guard trait only works on INFANTRY and Helbrutes. As far as I can see it's never been errata'd to include the Prince, who isn't an infantry model.

Also doesn't have a warp bolter option, only the plague spewer.

Edit: Though as the spewer is a flamer, it doesn't matter that he gets -1 to hit with it if he moves anyway, it's just a wasted trait on him.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/21 20:58:57


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




I must be thinking of a different weapon then.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

Is Horticulous planting trees midfield T1 so Nurgle Daemons (notably, Daemon engines) can advance & charge T2 dead?

   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

 lindsay40k wrote:
Is Horticulous planting trees midfield T1 so Nurgle Daemons (notably, Daemon engines) can advance & charge T2 dead?

The only thing that died was alpha striking via deep strike or other coming in from reserves (so any ability that removes a unit and redeploys them via reserves) on turn 1. Anything that hits on turn 2 or later (or hits from being on the table at the start of turn 1) is still valid.

Speaking back to the trouble of too many options is my attempts on trying to make a list that balances melee (to take advantage of the Dark Raiders trait) and shooting (to crack armour and help thin hordes). I'm considering running Chosen with flamers and chainswords, a big unit of Spawn with MoK, Raptors with flamers and MoK/IoW (to thin chaffe and cull the rest) as the core of my melee.

I'm thinking that even my CSM and Cultists may go melee and pistols paired with special weapons to support the units (flamers, meltas) while the rest is going to be focused on cracking armour, killing big stuff and hitting hordes.

Basically it's kind of a rainbow list and isn't likely competitive, but I think it could lead to being a fun list for local tournaments and shouldn't be too easily broken by future FAQs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, I forgot the Talon DP with Wings, MoS, Warp Bolter and Elixer with the Flames of Spite warlord trait. Basically he rushes up the board, can pop the bolter off to reach out and touch things while throwing out wounds and possibly even mortal wounds onto things.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/22 02:58:47


 
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

Yeah, but to advance & charge on T2, your Nurgle Daemon unit’s need to start T2 within 7” of a tree. That requires they either keep holding a 7” bargepole poking a model in your DZ, or else Horticulous plants one in the middle of the table T1. AFAICT the latter is disallowed under the new DS rules.

...thinking on it, the 7” bargepole isn’t *that* difficult to implement. Defilers and Fiends have a large footprint, Plague Drones can conga line.

...huh. Chaos, Daemon, Nurgle keywords. Can’t take it in a fortification network with bunkers and that. That’s annoying.

   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

 lindsay40k wrote:
Yeah, but to advance & charge on T2, your Nurgle Daemon unit’s need to start T2 within 7” of a tree. That requires they either keep holding a 7” bargepole poking a model in your DZ, or else Horticulous plants one in the middle of the table T1. AFAICT the latter is disallowed under the new DS rules.

...thinking on it, the 7” bargepole isn’t *that* difficult to implement. Defilers and Fiends have a large footprint, Plague Drones can conga line.

...huh. Chaos, Daemon, Nurgle keywords. Can’t take it in a fortification network with bunkers and that. That’s annoying.


Aren't the Bunkers and whatnot <UNALIGNED>, letting them sync with Chaos?

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

They can be taken in a CHAOS army, but they have no keyword in common with a a battle-forged detachment

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

Had a thought today, which probably isn't particularly unique, but I haven't seen it really come up much (probably because CSM are fairly unique in their rules for Troops).

So a Death Guard detachment with Plague Marines has the PM's as troops. And an Emperors Children detachment etc Noise Marine are troops. Same for Berzerkers and Rubrics.

However, the way the faq is written - "The Battlefield Role of Emperor’s Children Noise Marines is Troops instead of Elites."

So... Can't I have a detachment like this:

Chaos Lord <Emperors Children>
Chaos Lord <World Eaters>
5x Noise Marines <Emperors Children>
5x Noise Marines <Emperors Children>
5x Berzerkers <World Eaters>

And this would be a Battallion, netting 5 command points, and 3 troops choices. And its Battle-Forged (I think?) so they also get the CSM objective secured Despoilers of the Galaxy thing?

Seems this -only- would work with Noise and Berzerkers, because there's no such rule for Plagues and Rubrics (because they have their own codex, and they're only troops if from their own codex).

Kinda thinking I'm missing something though, as I'm sure this isn't -meant- to work this way. But it's a tempting way to insert some decent units in an army and get 5CP, without a cultists tax. All I'd lose is Legion Traits for these units, but that's no big loss. All stratagems would still work fine.

Edit:
Not saying this is a great idea, especially not in all cases... but if you're planning to take Noise Marines and Berzerkers in a detachment anyway (and a HQ or 2 if you want the bonus CP's), then doing this loses you the legion trait for these units... but also saves you 120 points in cultist tax. I don't think I'd spend 120 points on the Emperors Children legion trait personally, maybe the Alpha Legion trait is worth that much, but you can have 8 extra marine bodies on the table for those points...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/23 04:36:03


 
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

I was listening to a podcast recently and I heard an interesting claim: to make melee CSM effective we need to put most (around 75%) of our points into melee options and basically throw all that at the opponent while the rest hangs back to handle the support stuff (like Lascannon Havocs to help crack armour).

Anyone agree with this, or have different thoughts?
   
Made in gb
Excited Doom Diver





 ClockworkZion wrote:
I was listening to a podcast recently and I heard an interesting claim: to make melee CSM effective we need to put most (around 75%) of our points into melee options and basically throw all that at the opponent while the rest hangs back to handle the support stuff (like Lascannon Havocs to help crack armour).

Anyone agree with this, or have different thoughts?
So... To make melee good, you need to invest in melee?

Honestly I'm not sure what's supposed to be so interesting or unusual about that claim.
   
Made in au
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





Aelyn wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
I was listening to a podcast recently and I heard an interesting claim: to make melee CSM effective we need to put most (around 75%) of our points into melee options and basically throw all that at the opponent while the rest hangs back to handle the support stuff (like Lascannon Havocs to help crack armour).

Anyone agree with this, or have different thoughts?
So... To make melee good, you need to invest in melee?

Honestly I'm not sure what's supposed to be so interesting or unusual about that claim.

I think he's perhaps saying the opposite, that perhaps to make melee work you have to invest a sizeable amount into shooting.

Which I think is a fair statement. Most Melee can still really benefit from range support, and vice versa

P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





New player here with recap of my 3rd "casual" tournament (PL cap, no FW). I had fun and I'll post in spoiler my recap and lessons learned, but feel free to skip if you're not interested!

Played Alpha Legion for first real time with 3 helbrute, lord, sorc, DP, 10 berzerkers 10 tac 20 cultists 2 rhino and heldrake.

Spoiler:
So, things I learned yesterday from my games against people who play a lot more than me:

First, and most disturbing, even people that say they play ITC and NOVA, and the store's staff that were TO's, didn't understand the sequencing of combat c activation. In my first game, I activated my berzerkers and asked the opponent, a player who said he competes in regular competitive tourneys, if he was familiar with berzerkers. He said it's been a while but played against them, I reminded them that they can fight twice a turn. I activate, pile in, roll dice, and then go to consolidate before second activation. Wait, he says, you don't consolidate until the end of the phase. I'm like naw bro you consolidate as the last step in a fight sequence it's not part of the phase. I pull out my battle primer to show him the order of operations, he's still convinced consolidating is at the end of fight phase.  Call for judge. We pose our question and they don't know how the sequential works. Ask to see rules. I show them the berzerkers rule and they think fight means roll dice to attack 2x. I'm like naw bros here's the order. Any chaos player will tell you the same, and any player should know consolidating is part of activation. They ask for rulebook I'm like i don't have rulebook but the rule is here in the primer. They go to Internet to check FAQ. 20 minutes later they see no FAQ and decide to rule in my favor because they can't prove me wrong for obvious reason and say they think that wasn't GW's intention.

Moving right along, the opponent was a good player with a tough list. 1 las pred and 2 Baal preds he luckily put forward to peek around big center of table LOS blocking terrain. I was able to get my DP on 2 of them round 2 and get 1 down to bottom profile and tie up the other 2 for the rest of the game. Also luckily he couldn't use killshot stratagem as the strat names Predator profile, not keyword. Also, my bad ass lord with the murder sword 1-shotted his Slamguinius thanks to Death to the False Emperor. Other lessons learned that game: I messed up and tried to kill a Lieutenant instead of the scouts and size the objective from him, mistake, I love a 3++ chaos lord from Tzeentch's spell, and if my helbrute survives turn 1 it is well worth its points in dmg output, scarecrowing, and as a durable target closer than my characters.

It was also my first tourney using Alpha Legion rules instead of Word Bearers. A significant change in play style even without infiltrating anything, and the -1 to be hit at ranged was so incredibly helpful at keeping me moving up the board and messing with their "math" in their head with my dudes surviving what "should have killed them!" May Lorgar forgive me.

My second opponent was Thousand Sons and had an impenetrable setup with 3 predators upon a hill with an exalted sorcerer in the middle, 30 tzangor and 40 cultists around them and between me and them, a shaman and sorcerer on disk and 10 Enlightened with bows  beside. And 10 rubrics in the Webway. the mission gave credit for killing a unit first turn and there was a huge building in the middle of the board (seek and destroy deployment) so i couldn't reach him turn 1 and nothing was really viable. I got first turn and tried to pop his nearest pred with my brutes and heldrake and havoc launchers but just didn't have the punch. Also trying not to give up a backfield Webway gate didn't warptime me berzerker rhino forward. I managed to kill about 10 cultists with what couldn't reach the pred and dove ny drake into them and the tzangor just to keep them busy, and maybe force him to blow CP on Bravery and i forgot 1KS couldn't Tide (couldn't touch the Enlightened or preds). His turn put out a lot of hurt with killshot and the enlightened. I killed 1 pred turn 2 but the rest of the game was a bloodbath, luckily i got death hex off on his tzangor that surrounded my prince and sorcerer and helbrute, fried chicken man for dinner.

 Unfortunately the Enlightened were WAY better in melee than anticipated and they got my prince and brute, but not the huge point gain from slay The warlord thanks to I am Alpharius. That trait is so useful for denying warlord kills, even with the random tertiary trait. Lessons learned: that 6" increased range on casts makes a well-screened sorcerer really hard to deal with directly, but also let my sorcerer stay out of deny range to counter with my own spells; 1KS has some very Nurgly spells with the D3 healing and -1 to hit from range; and the opponent was very nice and a sportsman but was measuring tzangor movement from front of base to back of base getting that extra 32mm in movement until I pointed it out and thereafter he was very careful with every model's movement and I felt a little bad because he was so nice and it probably didn't even matter.

My third opponent was someone who wrecked me in my previous tourney, then playing Steel Legion and now playing Blood Angels with 15 Scout snipers, 15 Death Company, Slammy, Storms talon and raven, librarian and librarian dread, Ave some others. I knew going in that the guy is smart about playing for objectives, kill priority, and map awareness, and he had me really threatened going in to deployment with the deep strikers and snipers. I could sort of screen but with dawn of war deployment he had lots of room to Wings into my DZ. He deployed his Slamguinius in the back corner for that stratagem, and i infiltrated 10 cultists up front to try to bait some snipers or DC. He put all sniper shots into my warlord Prince and thanks to the Hydra trait only dealt 1 mortal wound. He did indeed send 5 DC into my infiltrators (RIP) instead of my rhinos or brutes. Turn 1 he Wings'd Slamguinius near my Las brute and 1- shotted him (RIP) but didn't do much else. My turn 1 my Murdersword Lord failed his charge into Slamguinius but my autogun cultists made it in! RIP 3 cultists. Took down most of storm talon with shooting and heldrake claws, 3 of the exposed DC. Kept screen in place for turn 2 DS. Turn 2 he Wings'd his captain to other side of field and failed his charges into a helbrute and didn't deep strike his guys, kept trying to snipe but not having much luck with the -1. Got the 3rd brute down to 1 wound. DC remaining killed my very brave cultists down to a man, i used Bravery and on My turn 2 Tide to get to he far corner 3rd level of cover to sit and throw rocks at snipers and finished off DC with Lord. Killed Slamguinius with my DP and got warlord kill. Took down Talon but couldn't dislodge scouts. Turn 3 10 more DC, 5 S.Guard and librarian and dread dropped on me. RIP my tac boys but the terminator sorcerer and lord did some wicked work fighting back in melee.  Turn 4 he focuses everything in my HQs and gets all my characters but invested everything into that, and kills cultists so i gave 1 remaining in his DZ for linebreaker. My turn i disembark my berzerkers who clear up my entire backfield, shuffle my one remaining brute and rhino up to charge his scouts. All in all it was super close the whole game and I feel i fought well. Lessons learned: blood angels can fail their charge especially if they are trying 4 9" charges at a time; denying librarian dread spells are Gamechanging; and while a list can be intimidating and an opponent's tactics sound, things can not go according to their plan too.

At the end of the day I finished with 3 Draws with each of those games me scoring more "battle points" than my opponent [just not enough to move from draw to win per mission parameters], and felt great about that because I usually lose to blood angels, felt I had weaker lists but played smarter, and had fun. It's also my first time leaving a tourney with no losses which to me is very fulfilling. Also, my opponents were nice and good sports with great paint jobs (#3 had hand-painted angels on his storm raven wing that were awesome). I feel a bit dirty about running as AL instead of WB but my pride will heal and 9th edition will probably be here soon enough.

Next: 2K pt tourney, 2 months.

   
Made in gb
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut





UK

Played my mate over the weekend first game of 40k in ages..

Those Knight helverins with Armiger autocannons wow... That's 9 obilterators dead in two turns then!

Anyone else struggling against thest guys (i know we can have our own! hehe i'm tempted)

 
   
Made in au
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





Dactylartha wrote:


First, and most disturbing, even people that say they play ITC and NOVA, and the store's staff that were TO's, didn't understand the sequencing of combat c activation. In my first game, I activated my berzerkers and asked the opponent, a player who said he competes in regular competitive tourneys, if he was familiar with berzerkers. He said it's been a while but played against them, I reminded them that they can fight twice a turn. I activate, pile in, roll dice, and then go to consolidate before second activation. Wait, he says, you don't consolidate until the end of the phase. I'm like naw bro you consolidate as the last step in a fight sequence it's not part of the phase. I pull out my battle primer to show him the order of operations, he's still convinced consolidating is at the end of fight phase.  Call for judge. We pose our question and they don't know how the sequential works. Ask to see rules. I show them the berzerkers rule and they think fight means roll dice to attack 2x. I'm like naw bros here's the order. Any chaos player will tell you the same, and any player should know consolidating is part of activation. They ask for rulebook I'm like i don't have rulebook but the rule is here in the primer. They go to Internet to check FAQ. 20 minutes later they see no FAQ and decide to rule in my favor because they can't prove me wrong for obvious reason and say they think that wasn't GW's intention.

This has come up for me before. Exactly where is the rules for it written so I know where to reference? Thanks

P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. 
   
Made in ca
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant






Niiru wrote:
Had a thought today, which probably isn't particularly unique, but I haven't seen it really come up much (probably because CSM are fairly unique in their rules for Troops).

So a Death Guard detachment with Plague Marines has the PM's as troops. And an Emperors Children detachment etc Noise Marine are troops. Same for Berzerkers and Rubrics.

However, the way the faq is written - "The Battlefield Role of Emperor’s Children Noise Marines is Troops instead of Elites."

So... Can't I have a detachment like this:

Chaos Lord <Emperors Children>
Chaos Lord <World Eaters>
5x Noise Marines <Emperors Children>
5x Noise Marines <Emperors Children>
5x Berzerkers <World Eaters>

And this would be a Battallion, netting 5 command points, and 3 troops choices. And its Battle-Forged (I think?) so they also get the CSM objective secured Despoilers of the Galaxy thing?

Seems this -only- would work with Noise and Berzerkers, because there's no such rule for Plagues and Rubrics (because they have their own codex, and they're only troops if from their own codex).

Kinda thinking I'm missing something though, as I'm sure this isn't -meant- to work this way. But it's a tempting way to insert some decent units in an army and get 5CP, without a cultists tax. All I'd lose is Legion Traits for these units, but that's no big loss. All stratagems would still work fine.

Edit:
Not saying this is a great idea, especially not in all cases... but if you're planning to take Noise Marines and Berzerkers in a detachment anyway (and a HQ or 2 if you want the bonus CP's), then doing this loses you the legion trait for these units... but also saves you 120 points in cultist tax. I don't think I'd spend 120 points on the Emperors Children legion trait personally, maybe the Alpha Legion trait is worth that much, but you can have 8 extra marine bodies on the table for those points...


They are troops inside of a World Eaters and Emp. Children Detachment. If you put Zerkers into an emp children detachment, they are still elites.
   
 
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