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Anyone that has the book mind sharing the decimator engine? are they any good?

Relic Deredeos and Sicarans both look fairly legit. Leviathans look great. A lot of good looking stuff in general.

I haven't seen the Fire Raptor rules yet but I think it's going to be a freakish amount of dakka considering how much they're gonna cost (mid to high 300s).

Fire Raptor Dakka:
10 S6, - 2, 2
24 S5, - 1, 1
2 S8, - 3, 3

stormcraft wrote:
Fire Raptor Dakka:
10 S6, - 2, 2
24 S5, - 1, 1
2 S8, - 3, 3

Good lord.

EDIT: thanks friend

Does it still hit on a 2+ (strafing run) ?

No, just a straight 3+BS, going to 4+ once it takes half damage

 BoomWolf wrote:
Anyone that has the book mind sharing the decimator engine? are they any good?

.

They look excellent.
90 base. 30-50 per weapon ..
Stats are basically a 10" move dread.
Weapons are all good.
Soulburner petard , 2d3 shots, r24" each hit a mortal wound.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Butcher cannon is a souped up autocannon which causes a -2ld debuff.

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Anyone that has the book mind sharing the decimator engine? are they any good?

.

They look excellent.
90 base. 30-50 per weapon ..
Stats are basically a 10" move dread.
Weapons are all good.
Soulburner petard , 2d3 shots, r24" each hit a mortal wound.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Butcher cannon is a souped up autocannon which causes a -2ld debuff.

Sounds tasty, any chance you can PM me a picture of that dataslate?


EDIT:
Ok, now that I've seen the slate, I'm so conflicted.
If I want a melee battering ram, do I take a decimator, or a helbrute?
Do I bother giving it two melee weapons, or a melee and a gun? (either one of them)

The helbrute has the tasty crazed rule, but the decimator is so much harder to kill between invuls and regeneration.
The helbrute is deadlier against T5/T6 (wounding on 2s unlike the decimator wounding on 3s), but the decimator has an additional base attack-and it moves faster, so hitting combat should be simpler.
The decimator also has build-in flamers in his melee weapons who can pile up some more damage to the unfortunate bastard stuck fighting it.


Gha! spoiled by choices is not how I'm used to be with chaos!

I am quite likeing Arkos the faithless.
He can "infiltrate". And is the only thing I've seen so far that gives a bonus to charge distance.
Only problem is he's alpha legion, and alphas have nothing right now. The only other chaos infiltrator is nurglings.

But, if alphas have nothing.. they can have everything. Alpha legion bezerkers may be unfluffy, but it is playable..

So infiltrate Arkos with a nurgling screen, then charge in with dreadclaw bezerkers and terminators with icons of wrath, a smattering of helldrakes and a warptime big beasty.
Could be fun.

What do people think of the new rules for warp talons? I'm new to 40K and I know they didn't get much use in the last ed.
They still look pretty expensive, but deepflame strike sounds like it could be good, especially with no enemies being able to overwatch on the turn they deploy.

I'm keen to get them for fluff reasons, but I'm holding off until I hear how they play in 8th.

They can get buffed by both csm and daemon characters and have a pretty decent ability, so I think worthwhile.

I think combi-plasma chosen look to be fairly beastly. Throw them in a rhino and they're going to get in range to destroy at least one MEQ unit completely. Too bad we have no apothecaries :(. Warp Talons went from bad to great with the ability to negate overwatch the turn they come in.

Hatachi wrote:
I think combi-plasma chosen look to be fairly beastly. Throw them in a rhino and they're going to get in range to destroy at least one MEQ unit completely. Too bad we have no apothecaries :(. Warp Talons went from bad to great with the ability to negate overwatch the turn they come in.

I like the sound of that option for the chosen, sounds very deadly. I'm running a chaosy fallen army that I've been slowly adding to over the years. With the new rules I'm very hesitant to run actual fallen over chosen. Not being able to infiltrate or use transports really diminishes their usefulness in my eyes, which is unfortunate.

On the other hand it's good to hear warp talons are good again, I've been wanting to convert some with sanguinary wings to run them as fallen who spent too long in the warp.

Havocs are 3ppm cheaper than Chosen, so take them if you want to roam around plasma-ing things to death. The only real difference is they take a Heavy Support slot rather than an Elites one.

In regards to Decimator v Helbrute v Contemptor, I think it mostly comes down to what weapons you want to use and if you can use the Daemon keyword effectively. It's worth mentioning that the Helbrute can put heavy flamers in his fists as well.

Captyn_Bob 727523 9436705 wrote:
Soulburner petard , 2d3 shots, r24" each hit a mortal wound

Don't forget that the petard can hurt the decimator on a 1 as well. He'll get one mortal wound on average each turn.


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 BoomWolf wrote:

If I want a melee battering ram, do I take a decimator, or a helbrute?
Do I bother giving it two melee weapons, or a melee and a gun? (either one of them)

If you don't mind using Khorne units, try a Bloodslaughterer. They are as survivable as the decimator, very fast with 10" move and an guarantied 6" advance. Can butcher both infantry and monsters / vehicles.

I'v got the FW book if anyone wants to know anything.

My fire raptor and fellblade came out of it ok i think, but oh lawd the pts increases!

like they actually put rules in now for plague toads! i have three!

One mortal wound per turn (max) isn't too bad for outputting 4d3 shots. And you heal one wound per turn as well, so no big problem
Shooting output can be improved with a lord or prince.
A warpsmith or hellwright could do battlefield repairs.


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Give them the mark of tzeentch and stick the changling near them.


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How do people feel about using Castellax Achea as proxy tzeentch decimators?

 Darkseid wrote:

Captyn_Bob 727523 9436705 wrote:
Soulburner petard , 2d3 shots, r24" each hit a mortal wound

Don't forget that the petard can hurt the decimator on a 1 as well. He'll get one mortal wound on average each turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BoomWolf wrote:

If I want a melee battering ram, do I take a decimator, or a helbrute?
Do I bother giving it two melee weapons, or a melee and a gun? (either one of them)

If you don't mind using Khorne units, try a Bloodslaughterer. They are as survivable as the decimator, very fast with 10" move and an guarantied 6" advance. Can butcher both infantry and monsters / vehicles.

I'm a tzeentch player, ain't going to bring khorne things in my army.

Captyn_Bob wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
How do people feel about using Castellax Achea as proxy tzeentch decimators?

Looks good but it might be too small? Is the Deci bigger?

A big difference between the Deci and Contemptor are the wounds. Deci has 8 and contemptor ahs 10, so it has to contend with diminishing stats as it takes wounds. Contemptor is almost as fast - 9" compared to the Deci 10" but it loses that speed as it starts to die. Decimator looks like it's the fastest dreadnought out there, which for a CC brute is going to be quite handy. They both have invul saves of 5++ but the contemptor gets that boosted to 4++ in combat, and they can both regen except the Deci gets 1 wound per turn whilst the contemptor has to kill stuff in combat, but gets 1 wound per roll of 5+ (with 1d6 per model killed in CC) so if the contemptor kills a bunch of guys it can regen a lot of wounds. Contemptor can pretty much take the same weaponry plus more than the Deci (it can get soulburner weaponry built into it's claws instead of flamers and they don't cause it to wound itself) but the contemptor costs a bit more and is slightly slower than the Deci (and much slower once if it takes a bit of damage). Deci looks like the budget FW dread tbh.

I love my new LR Achiles. I was building my list around the old IA Vraks list (think it was the Vraks list) where barrrage weapons caused dangerous terrain markers to be left. The Achilles was going to be great for that, but now in 8th it's a beast! It's gun is 48" indirect fire 2d3 mortal wounds. Stick it in the centre of the board and it can hit anything, anywhere, anytime! And with 4 multi-melta shots don't even think of coming near it with a vehicle. It gets the Hellforged regen rule (1d6 per model killed in CC, regens a wound on a 5+) so it can regen for days. And the kicker is it has 19 wounds (only a single wound short of a Spartan LoW...) and a 4++ invul save! God frickin luck trying to kill this beast! And if you do manage to damage it, well it just charges you and starts regening those wounds. And the more you damage it the better it gets in CC, sot he better the odds of wounding and getting wounds back.... I can see this thing being banned from tables - it can't be killed but it's pumping out so much damage that you have to kill it to stop it just sniping your best stuff off the table. And to be even more annoying I'm sticking 5 combi-plasma chosen in it with a combi-plas lord. Because what my opponents really want is all that plasma disembarking from an unkillable beast right in their face! The vehicle comes in at <500 pts though so it's not quite 25% of your 2000 limit. But given that you need mortal wounds (and lots of them) to stand a chance at killing it it should make it's points back in what it can take out before it goes down (if it ever does).

A Decimator also gets Daemon buffs from Heralds and stuff, while a Contemptor only gets Legion buffs.

I'm also very happy with my Achilles, though now it lost the get angry when injured rules it fits my Khorne only rules a bit less. Still it does get a mark now.

It does get better in combat the more injured it gets, which is pretty cool.

 BoomWolf wrote:

Ok, now that I've seen the slate, I'm so conflicted.
If I want a melee battering ram, do I take a decimator, or a helbrute?
Do I bother giving it two melee weapons, or a melee and a gun? (either one of them)

In terms of melee power:

The Helbrute, at 155 points for a fist and scourge, has 8 attacks total (5 fist, 3 scourge) and can basically kill everything with impunity. It is your best bang for your buck but is slow and doesn't get an invul.

The Decimator is going to be 184 with it's stock close combat weapons and 5 attacks, making it less killy than the Helbrute HOWEVER with a 10 inch move and deamon save it will last longer and get into the fight faster. It also regens a wound per turn. Unfortunetly it's claws at only +2 str so it's worse against infantry (EDIT: against T5+ it's worse) than the Helbrute but the same against tanks. Oh, it also comes stock with two hellflamers which are pretty nice flamer weapons, so overall if you have the points this is the better option over a Helbrute.

The Blood Slaughterer just puts both of the above to shame. SHAME I TELL YOU! At 180 points it takes everything good about a decimator and everything good about a helbrute and says , "I got dis." At full strength, you're looking at 6 str 10 melee hits at Helbrute power fist damage, plus the Harpoon which gets you into combat faster, while moving 10 inches already plus always advancing plus 6. Oh, and against infantry it gets +2 attacks. I called these guys Maulerfiends+1, but they're really every other walker+1. Honestly this thing is bananas and every Khorne army should be dropping their melee Maulers, Brutes, Decimators, and Contemptors for these bad boys. They're just soooooo much better overall, dealing just about the same damage as the Helbrute while getting there twice as fast.

Yesterday I ran two melee brutes and two slaughterers in the same army. The brutes, bless their souls, killed anything they got to (I even used a counter stratagem to turn and punch my opponents lord to death out of turn, which was hilarious), but the slaughterers outlasted them while flipping tanks and infantry squads. My advice for anyone running melee walkers is to MAKE SURE THEY ARE ON YOUR DEPLOYMENT EDGE! Don't be an andysonic1 and deploy your helbrute waaaay away from the enemy like wtf was I even doing.

For straight Melee Power go Bloods, with a flying demon Prince to reroll 1s.

Personally Im taking a Contemptor w/Multimelta,soulburner and deathclaw Next to a DP, its causing D3 mortal wounds on a rerollable 2+, and the MM is also a rerollable 2+. The 4++ in combat is huge as well especially since youre going to see alot of fast things in combat. I learned the hard way when I charged the swarmlord with my DP and helbrute and it just tanked every single attack.

 andysonic1 wrote:


Something to remember: you don't have to deploy the drop pods in reserve. You can now start them on the table. There's still no reason to but the option is there.

Oh contraire!

15" move plus warp time means you're booking it across the table! Sadly since the disembark is at the start of the movement phase, you can't get out and charge that turn :( but when you disembark the next turn, you're not restricted to stay 9" away from enemy models.

Not saying it's a GOOD idea to park it right in front of your enemy lmao but it's a funny mental picture.


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Captyn_Bob wrote:
I am quite likeing Arkos the faithless.
He can "infiltrate". And is the only thing I've seen so far that gives a bonus to charge distance.
Only problem is he's alpha legion, and alphas have nothing right now. The only other chaos infiltrator is nurglings.

But, if alphas have nothing.. they can have everything. Alpha legion bezerkers may be unfluffy, but it is playable..

So infiltrate Arkos with a nurgling screen, then charge in with dreadclaw bezerkers and terminators with icons of wrath, a smattering of helldrakes and a warptime big beasty.
Could be fun.

Having played more than a few games with maxed out turn 1 assault Nids (who do this a lot better than CSM, I promise) be careful with putting all your eggs in that basket. A good army will have a screening unit or two to prevent you from getting to the good stuff, thus forcing you to weather a turn or two of shooting no matter when you first hit their lines

What do we think about DG losing access to Oblits, Terminators, bikes, and havoc?

I played a game vs DA yesterday with 4 squads of PM, 10 pox walkers, 2 of the elite dudes with bells, the Lord of Contagion, and 1 sorcerer.

I feel like DG have very little access to buff synergy compared to DA's Azrael giving everything rerolls and a 4++.

I might have to mix a regular CSM batallion with a DG patrol or something.

 Wingeds wrote:
What do we think about DG losing access to Oblits, Terminators, bikes, and havoc?

I played a game vs DA yesterday with 4 squads of PM, 10 pox walkers, 2 of the elite dudes with bells, the Lord of Contagion, and 1 sorcerer.

I feel like DG have very little access to buff synergy compared to DA's Azrael giving everything rerolls and a 4++.

I might have to mix a regular CSM batallion with a DG patrol or something.

The question is do you actually lose access to those other units. The Death Guard Army entry only says the units on the list get the Death Guard keyword, not that other units can't be taken in the army. Remember, the main rulebook says a detachment is legal as long as all the units share a single keyword which you can still easily do with "Chaos". It's being discussed in YMDC if you want to make your voice heard anyways. I'm of the opinion that it's legal and you would just lose the benefit of auras that are keyword dependent but there is definitely someone very adamant against it, I just haven't found the rules justification for his argument yet.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/729174.page

Captyn_Bob wrote:
One mortal wound per turn (max) isn't too bad for outputting 4d3 shots. And you heal one wound per turn as well, so no big problem
Shooting output can be improved with a lord or prince.
A warpsmith or hellwright could do battlefield repairs.

I completely forgot that regeneration works automatically now; the soulburner is looking better now. I'm going to give it a try.


What does everyone think of the Kytan? It use to be a clearly better choice than the LoS back in the 7th. The difference isn't as big anymore. Also the Kytan gatling gun seems to be a bit overcosted, when you compare it to the LoS gatling. Same prices but less shots for some reason.

 luke1705 wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:


Something to remember: you don't have to deploy the drop pods in reserve. You can now start them on the table. There's still no reason to but the option is there.

Oh contraire!

15" move plus warp time means you're booking it across the table! Sadly since the disembark is at the start of the movement phase, you can't get out and charge that turn :( but when you disembark the next turn, you're not restricted to stay 9" away from enemy models.

Not saying it's a GOOD idea to park it right in front of your enemy lmao but it's a funny mental picture.

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Captyn_Bob wrote:
I am quite likeing Arkos the faithless.
He can "infiltrate". And is the only thing I've seen so far that gives a bonus to charge distance.
Only problem is he's alpha legion, and alphas have nothing right now. The only other chaos infiltrator is nurglings.

But, if alphas have nothing.. they can have everything. Alpha legion bezerkers may be unfluffy, but it is playable..

So infiltrate Arkos with a nurgling screen, then charge in with dreadclaw bezerkers and terminators with icons of wrath, a smattering of helldrakes and a warptime big beasty.
Could be fun.

Having played more than a few games with maxed out turn 1 assault Nids (who do this a lot better than CSM, I promise) be careful with putting all your eggs in that basket. A good army will have a screening unit or two to prevent you from getting to the good stuff, thus forcing you to weather a turn or two of shooting no matter when you first hit their lines

How do you find trying to screen you units against Trygon deep striking then gaunts through the tunnel? I'm finding a good Nids list can put you under pressure from across the board and hit your flank/rear in the first few turns. Nids make us being 'okay/good' at melee totally defunct... Genestealers totally wreck face. I've had to redesign all my lists to make them way more shooty.

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 BoomWolf wrote:

If I want a melee battering ram, do I take a decimator, or a helbrute?
Do I bother giving it two melee weapons, or a melee and a gun? (either one of them)

I think the Decimator with 2 x Souldburner Petard or Souldburner Petard & Siege Claw is cheap and good. A Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought with Hellforged Deathclaw, Soulburner & Ectoplasma Cannon is good too at a meltabomb over 200 points. Supported with re-roll 1s and it should do some good damage and be decent in melee too.

Is a Contemptor with 2 Deathclaws with soulburners worth considering or does it work out too pricey? If the Deathclaws are anything like dreadnought CC weapons then they'd be the sticking point, but 5 S14 Ap-3, 3D attacks and 2d3 mortal wounds hitting on 2s seems really strong.

Kuklops wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:


Having played more than a few games with maxed out turn 1 assault Nids (who do this a lot better than CSM, I promise) be careful with putting all your eggs in that basket. A good army will have a screening unit or two to prevent you from getting to the good stuff, thus forcing you to weather a turn or two of shooting no matter when you first hit their lines

How do you find trying to screen you units against Trygon deep striking then gaunts through the tunnel? I'm finding a good Nids list can put you under pressure from across the board and hit your flank/rear in the first few turns. Nids make us being 'okay/good' at melee totally defunct... Genestealers totally wreck face. I've had to redesign all my lists to make them way more shooty.

You definitely have to be able to do two things in 8th:

1) Counter a turn 1 assault
2) kill hordes that have access to an invuln/FNP

Genestealers are especially rough because they are some of the most points-efficient versions of both of those things. That's usually what I bring through the tunnel as a Nids player.

For CSM, I like using the poxwalkers as a screen. Blue horrors are also insanely points-efficient, but you'll likely have to spend some CP saving them from morale doom. The real question (imo) is where CSM's offense comes from. I'm thinking a combination of quad heavy bolters and Leviathan Dreads with Butcher Cannons. So much dakka, and a nearby lord lets all of them re-roll 1's to hit

My counter assault is probably going to have to be An'ggrath because
1) I am building my whole list around him
2) The leviathans have some really enticing melee options but their guns are just so much better

 lessthanjeff wrote:


The question is do you actually lose access to those other units. The Death Guard Army entry only says the units on the list get the Death Guard keyword, not that other units can't be taken in the army. Remember, the main rulebook says a detachment is legal as long as all the units share a single keyword which you can still easily do with "Chaos". It's being discussed in YMDC if you want to make your voice heard anyways. I'm of the opinion that it's legal and you would just lose the benefit of auras that are keyword dependent but there is definitely someone very adamant against it, I just haven't found the rules justification for his argument yet.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/729174.page

Hmm, yea that does make sense. Thanks for the heads up!