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 MinscS2 wrote:
Courtesy from DreamIsCollapsing @ B&C who deciphered the french leak.

World Eater Stratagem:
Cancel a psychic power within 24" on a 4+

Emperor's Children Stratagem:
Activates in the combat phase. Each time a model of this squads kills an enemy model, he can immediately make another attack with the same weapon on the same enemy unit.

Night Lord Stratagem:
Activate when a Night Lord unit get's shot: The enemy must add -1 to hit for ranged weapons against that unit in this phase.

Alpha Legion Stratagem:
...It's the same as Raven Guard. Same CT and same Stratagem. *Yawn*

He wasn't 100% sure of the Black Legion and Word Bearer-Stratagems.

Black Legion had something about giving a squad rerolling 1's to hit during a shooting phase or combat phase, and an additional rule for Chaos Space Marine Squads (re-rolling 1's to wound as well?)

Word Bearers got to reroll their dices when summoning Daemons. Something more about doubles and triples that he couldn't decipher.

Endless cacophony isn't an emperor's children stratagem, it is a slaanesh stratagem that any legion except world eaters can use.

Just like how fury of khorne is a khorne only stratagem any legion except emperor's children can use.

But as you can see in the quote above both world eaters and emperor's children have a unique stratagem as well.

I'd prefer if WE got Berserker's Glavie back over the AoBF to be honest.

Not being able to join a unit isn't a problem in 8th.

Pretty confident you will get the Bloodfeeder, and emperor's children will get the Blissgiver, since they are pretty iconic daemon weapons

 MinscS2 wrote:
I'd prefer if WE got Berserker's Glavie back over the AoBF to be honest.

Not being able to join a unit isn't a problem in 8th.

I'd like to see the Glaive come back for WE and the AoBF for CSM on the whole. Then you can spend a CP and take both if fielding WE's

Sounds like world eaters get the bt strat, and black legion get the ultramarine one.

jcd386 wrote:
Sounds like world eaters get the bt strat, and black legion get the ultramarine one.

WE get +1 attack on charge. they can already get reroll charges from their icon.
and Bezerkers can fight twice, with a strategem to fight 3 times

Captyn_Bob wrote:

jcd386 wrote:
Sounds like world eaters get the bt strat, and black legion get the ultramarine one.

WE get +1 attack on charge. they can already get reroll charges from their icon.
and Bezerkers can fight twice, with a strategem to fight 3 times

Was still holding out for +1S on the charge. ;_;

 mrhappyface wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:

jcd386 wrote:
Sounds like world eaters get the bt strat, and black legion get the ultramarine one.

WE get +1 attack on charge. they can already get reroll charges from their icon.
and Bezerkers can fight twice, with a strategem to fight 3 times

Was still holding out for +1S on the charge. ;_;

There's a stratagem that gets you +1 to wound (astartes), will that do>?

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:

jcd386 wrote:
Sounds like world eaters get the bt strat, and black legion get the ultramarine one.

WE get +1 attack on charge. they can already get reroll charges from their icon.
and Bezerkers can fight twice, with a strategem to fight 3 times

Was still holding out for +1S on the charge. ;_;

There's a stratagem that gets you +1 to wound (astartes), will that do>?

Even better!

Just seen on FB confirmed, Marks won't do anything, they just act as keywords to allow stratagems.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Just seen on FB confirmed, Marks won't do anything, they just act as keywords to allow stratagems.

Booo!

Disappointing, but predictable.
Had marks done anything, the CSM baseline would outshine the codex marines, and GW will never let that happen.

I'm fine with that mark of slaanesh, tzeentch and khorne where always meh and overshadowed by the mark of nurgle master race since it was the only one which was useful on everything.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Just seen on FB confirmed, Marks won't do anything, they just act as keywords to allow stratagems.

I didn't expect them to actually, and surprisingly enough, I don't even feel bad about it.

My World Eaters get +1 A on the charge, which more or less is the old MoK, and the Icon of Wrath is still there for that charge re-roll.
Any additional rules and effects feel superfluous, since the Legion Tactic effectively replaces the Mark.

This is also good for the non-god-specific legions, who don't feel like they're missing out on some juicy effect because they can't take (although it seems like they can now) a mark for their undivided legions.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:

jcd386 wrote:
Sounds like world eaters get the bt strat, and black legion get the ultramarine one.

WE get +1 attack on charge. they can already get reroll charges from their icon.
and Bezerkers can fight twice, with a strategem to fight 3 times

Was still holding out for +1S on the charge. ;_;

There's a stratagem that gets you +1 to wound (astartes), will that do>?

Even better!

The strat, not the tactics, of the bt. They can both cancel powers. That's what someone said above, anyway.

jcd386 wrote:
The strat, not the tactics, of the bt. They can both cancel powers. That's what someone said above, anyway.

That is the WE strat but I think Bob is talking about just a CSM strat.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Just seen on FB confirmed, Marks won't do anything, they just act as keywords to allow stratagems.

this is an abominable gak. and a lack of imagination/customization, to boot.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:

jcd386 wrote:
Sounds like world eaters get the bt strat, and black legion get the ultramarine one.

WE get +1 attack on charge. they can already get reroll charges from their icon.
and Bezerkers can fight twice, with a strategem to fight 3 times

Was still holding out for +1S on the charge. ;_;

If khorne demons can get this bonus then you're looking at +2 A +1S with bloodletters.... I can dream.

smegma_crunch wrote:
If khorne demons can get this bonus then you're looking at +2 A +1S with bloodletters.... I can dream.

Only Heretic Astartes I believe... :(

I've been looking through the Space Marine Strategems to see what we might get and one caught my eye:
Killshot - 1CP
If a Predator is 6" away from two other Predators, add 1 to the wound rolls and damage of those Predators' attacks when shooting models with the MONSTER or VEHICLE Keywords.

Notice how it's "Predators'". 3 Predators all with Twin Lascannons + Lascannon Sponsons and a Lord for re-rolls (Imagine if we get an exalted Lord that can re-roll all hits!) will have 12x S9 AP-3 D1+d6 that is basically wounding everything on a 2+! You'd be dropping a Knight per turn! Plus it's only 1CP.
Alternatively, go for the cheaper Autocannon + Heavy Bolters Predators for removing chaff: 6d3x S7 AP-1 D4 18x S5 AP-1 D2 shots both wounding on a 2+ versus T4.

And if this worked on the Hellforged Predators! Oh my! I'd be a happy bunny.

It's quite uninspiring that they mostly copied SM traits.

The WE one is quite boring, but effective enough I guess.

I wonder if there will be restrictions for cult armies concerning list building, as it was the case with some earlier editions.

You guys are true chaos! Doesn't matter how many bonuses and special powers you get, it's never enough! So within the last year chaos went from being utter garbage to getting sweet formations and LEGION RULES for the first time in donkeys years, and now we're getting unique legion traits (well some are unique but they're all fluffy it seems), unique warlord traits, unique stratagems, unique relics (well arguably we already had those and they were put back in the box temporarily) as well as a plethora of extra shred relics and stratagems. We have marks that aren't auto-picks for certain units, marks that don't turn every army into a Nurgle army because their mark is 7 times better than everyone elses. We're getting special rules and psychic powers that play off of (free) mark keywords and you can in some cases draw on Daemon buffs to further improve your forces. You get all this, which is 666 more toys and interesting features than chaos have had in years and people still aren't happy!

Look peeps, if you need your mark to give you +1T to make you feel special and add "interest" or "fluff" to your list then I'm afraid that you simply lack imagination, a shame in a game that has imagination and creativity as it's foundation.

Now, when the codex drops, your choice of marks and how you leverage the advantages of those marks are down to you as a player and your skill and cunning. Instead of sticking +T marines in cover and challenging you opponent to try and remove them, well now you have to select the right units to work with those marks, and use the appropriate powers and buffs with an equally appropriate opportunity cost.

There's a ton of stuff here for chaos. Chaos players should be rejoicing at so many options. Look at space marines. They get lots of toys too, and have way more nits to use them on, but outside of greater unit diversity they're pigeon-holed by their chapter tactics. Any of the chaos legions, except the 4 cult legions and mix and match any of the cult advantages to suit their needs. A NL army can roll with Zerkers and Khorne specific stratagems, or they could go Tzeentch and use 1k Sons as their anchor. You could even field BL with all 4 cults present in the same list, with whatever form the Psyclopea Cabal will take now sorcerers from all 3 cults with psychic powers. SM's simply can't do that. And now anything can summon daemons if that's your cup of tea, letting you summon anything you feel like you need on the table that game.

Chaos are looking pretty good with what's been revealed so far.

At this point I'm going to wait for the Community highlight because these leakers are all over the place. One minute WE ignore morale in combat, the next they get +1A, the next they're denying psykic powers or what have you. I can wait a couple of days to see what exactly we get and if it will be useful, but in reality any additional rules are going to be useful even if they don't help us GET into combat. I think we will see point adjustments like we saw with Space Marines that will allow us to bring more to the table and some kind of objective secured for being a Legion.

@Demantiae: I completely agree, the people in this and the other Chaos threads who are complaining about HOW they are getting the rules (moves from Marks to Legion Keywords) and saying how disappointed they are about points free rule updates for their desired Legion really shows just how toxic the community on this forum is. For every user who can make an argument about something that makes sense there are five doomsayers.

 andysonic1 wrote:
At this point I'm going to wait for the Community highlight because these leakers are all over the place. One minute WE ignore morale in combat, the next they get +1A, the next they're denying psykic powers or what have you. I can wait a couple of days to see what exactly we get and if it will be useful, but in reality any additional rules are going to be useful even if they don't help us GET into combat. I think we will see point adjustments like we saw with Space Marines that will allow us to bring more to the table and some kind of objective secured for being a Legion.

The things we know now seem to be pretty accurate. At least the leaked traits correspond to the ones published officially on the WH community page. As such WE get +1A as a trait, 4+ to deny in 24" as a strategem. No clue where the morale thing came from.

Demantiae wrote:
You guys are true chaos! Doesn't matter how many bonuses and special powers you get, it's never enough! So within the last year chaos went from being utter garbage to getting sweet formations and LEGION RULES for the first time in donkeys years, and now we're getting unique legion traits (well some are unique but they're all fluffy it seems), unique warlord traits, unique stratagems, unique relics (well arguably we already had those and they were put back in the box temporarily) as well as a plethora of extra shred relics and stratagems. We have marks that aren't auto-picks for certain units, marks that don't turn every army into a Nurgle army because their mark is 7 times better than everyone elses. We're getting special rules and psychic powers that play off of (free) mark keywords and you can in some cases draw on Daemon buffs to further improve your forces. You get all this, which is 666 more toys and interesting features than chaos have had in years and people still aren't happy!

Look peeps, if you need your mark to give you +1T to make you feel special and add "interest" or "fluff" to your list then I'm afraid that you simply lack imagination, a shame in a game that has imagination and creativity as it's foundation.

Now, when the codex drops, your choice of marks and how you leverage the advantages of those marks are down to you as a player and your skill and cunning. Instead of sticking +T marines in cover and challenging you opponent to try and remove them, well now you have to select the right units to work with those marks, and use the appropriate powers and buffs with an equally appropriate opportunity cost.

There's a ton of stuff here for chaos. Chaos players should be rejoicing at so many options. Look at space marines. They get lots of toys too, and have way more nits to use them on, but outside of greater unit diversity they're pigeon-holed by their chapter tactics. Any of the chaos legions, except the 4 cult legions and mix and match any of the cult advantages to suit their needs. A NL army can roll with Zerkers and Khorne specific stratagems, or they could go Tzeentch and use 1k Sons as their anchor. You could even field BL with all 4 cults present in the same list, with whatever form the Psyclopea Cabal will take now sorcerers from all 3 cults with psychic powers. SM's simply can't do that. And now anything can summon daemons if that's your cup of tea, letting you summon anything you feel like you need on the table that game.

Chaos are looking pretty good with what's been revealed so far.

I don't think the Legion book for 7th can really be used as an arguement: we got screwed over for 10 years, then they give us a book that actually makes us above average (a book we payed £40 odd quid for) and then 8th rolled in a few months late, all of the Legion stuff was gone and so was all the money we'd spent on the new books released just before a new edition. Too little too late comes to mind.

As for the new stuff, I'm much happier than I was in 7th and I'm having much more fun than I did in 7th. I don't care if this new stuff is competitive or not (I don't play tournaments or comp games, I play for fun), what I want from these new releases is something cool! I have a WE army and a NL army and so far the new stuff isn't that cool.
+1A for WE units: they already have tons of attacks and I don't really care about rolling more dice. But +1S would have been cool because then you'd have Zerkers hordes tearing tanks and monsters apart, I wouldn't have cared if we got a price hike for that, that would have been cool!
-1Ld area for NL units: this has so much potential to be cool but sadly morale means nothing thanks to either min sized units or max sized that ignored morale. If this came with other Psychic powers, relics and strategems that took advantage of low leadership (like a psychic shriek equivilent) that would be a cool list to build around!

We want some new stuff that gives more options to our play styles, not just to buff what we already have!

 mrhappyface wrote:
I don't think the Legion book for 7th can really be used as an arguement: we got screwed over for 10 years, then they give us a book that actually makes us above average (a book we payed £40 odd quid for) and then 8th rolled in a few months late, all of the Legion stuff was gone and so was all the money we'd spent on the new books released just before a new edition. Too little too late comes to mind.

Or to better explain it for the commoners...

Imagine you're totally all up inside your gal and she all wet and moist and you lovin' it and you about to bust a nut when suddenly -- her damn cellphone ring and she all like "Baby, I gotta take it" and she go and talk to her mom for three hours while you all blue ballin' over here.

That's what it's like to be a Chaos player.

 Arkaine wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
I don't think the Legion book for 7th can really be used as an arguement: we got screwed over for 10 years, then they give us a book that actually makes us above average (a book we payed £40 odd quid for) and then 8th rolled in a few months late, all of the Legion stuff was gone and so was all the money we'd spent on the new books released just before a new edition. Too little too late comes to mind.

Or to better explain it for the commoners...

Imagine you're totally all up inside your gal and she all wet and moist and you lovin' it and you about to bust a nut when suddenly -- her damn cellphone ring and she all like "Baby, I gotta take it" and she go and talk to her mom for three hours while you all blue ballin' over here.

That's what it's like to be a Chaos player.

But you also imagine that this was the first time you've seen your gal in 10 years since you've been away earning money as a punching bag and have people laugh at your topknot and lack of arms.

 Darkseid wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
At this point I'm going to wait for the Community highlight because these leakers are all over the place. One minute WE ignore morale in combat, the next they get +1A, the next they're denying psykic powers or what have you. I can wait a couple of days to see what exactly we get and if it will be useful, but in reality any additional rules are going to be useful even if they don't help us GET into combat. I think we will see point adjustments like we saw with Space Marines that will allow us to bring more to the table and some kind of objective secured for being a Legion.

The things we know now seem to be pretty accurate. At least the leaked traits correspond to the ones published officially on the WH community page. As such WE get +1A as a trait, 4+ to deny in 24" as a strategem. No clue where the morale thing came from.

No they are not?

The leak claimed IW get +1 in cover and "ignores cover", but in reality they got "ignores cover" and +1 against buildings.

If one thing is inaccurate, especially one as easy to guess as IW (who were very predictably similar to IF), then everything else is to be doubted.

Black legion seems decent if not earth shaking so I'm happy I decided to paint them up for the warlords contest on reddit. Kind of an aggressive version of the ultramarine chapter tactics, Advance and fire non-assault weapons might be more generally useful than fallback and fire weapons. Makes a foot heavy army of CSM a little more mobile. The modifier is probably cumulative with moving heavy weapons, so hitting on 5+ for heavies means it's more aimed at CSM/chosen/and terminators. The exception being heavy flamers, which will be tasty.

Wish we had more details on the stratagems, but all in good time I suppose.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Darkseid wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
At this point I'm going to wait for the Community highlight because these leakers are all over the place. One minute WE ignore morale in combat, the next they get +1A, the next they're denying psykic powers or what have you. I can wait a couple of days to see what exactly we get and if it will be useful, but in reality any additional rules are going to be useful even if they don't help us GET into combat. I think we will see point adjustments like we saw with Space Marines that will allow us to bring more to the table and some kind of objective secured for being a Legion.

The things we know now seem to be pretty accurate. At least the leaked traits correspond to the ones published officially on the WH community page. As such WE get +1A as a trait, 4+ to deny in 24" as a strategem. No clue where the morale thing came from.

No they are not?

The leak claimed IW get +1 in cover and "ignores cover", but in reality they got "ignores cover" and +1 against buildings.

If one thing is inaccurate, especially one as easy to guess as IW (who were very predictably similar to IF), then everything else is to be doubted.

There has been an update on that in the rumor thread. Yeah, those are wrong. But they are outdated, as far as rumors go.

I'm wondering if you can still make rubric marines with different legion tactics. Setting up warpflamers rubrics 9 inches away would be very nice. Or a berserker unit