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 Rydria wrote:
Now that the daemonic sword and axe are same pts cost as the pair of malefic talons how do the three daemon prince loadouts compare ?

I'd still go Malefic Talons since you have +3A (basically autohitting with a 1/36 chance of missing) and the hand over is -1D. The -1 to hit on the Axe really kills any appeal.

I think the sword for Slaanesh with the relic is worth it.

5 str 8 attacks with a -2 ap D3, 1 str 8 attack with -2 ap and D2. You can do an additional 3 if you have 3 wounds. Lots of way to add attacks. This unit will destroy tanks and other multiwound enemies.

Still the claws are pulling out really well. 8 str 8 attacks, -2 ap for 2 damage. Then the additional 3 from wounds.

If you cast the strength spell on your self str becomes 10, attacks on the sword is 6+1 and the talons are 8+1.

No matter what you can unleash a ton of damage. The axe is meh. It is +1 str and -1 ap but -1 to hit. So you hit on 3+ instead of 2+.with rerolls.

The axe could be useful i mean you can opt to attack with talon vs chumps while you use the str 9 axe to crack open things like land raiders. Isn't the sword ap-3 btw? (Not at home to check )

 Rydria wrote:
Sure the axe is aweful i mean you can opt to attack with talon vs chumps while you use the str 9 axe to crack open things like land raiders ? (Isn't the sword ap-3? Not at home to check )

-2 AP but is 3 damage instead of 2. You always get at least 1 attack from the talon you get.

Mazzyx wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Sure the axe is aweful i mean you can opt to attack with talon vs chumps while you use the str 9 axe to crack open things like land raiders ? (Isn't the sword ap-3? Not at home to check )

-2 AP but is 3 damage instead of 2. You always get at least 1 attack from the talon you get.

Ah ok shame I think i'll stick with talons for mowing down all but the most elite infantry. What i meant with the axe is you use all your attacks with the talon vs regular infanty while you use the axe on heavier armour like tanks.

Well I am definitely happy Obliterators got 4 shots. With 3 man squads and advancing that's now 6 average shots on the move, which was the original number of shots max not advancing!

So Alpha Legion Alpha Strike. You can easily take 2 Battalions of 3x10 cultists and 2 HQ's a piece with plenty points left for the cool toys. AL need those CP's bad. And having 4 HQ's will just annoyg the crap out of your opponent, especially if you continually whisper "I am Alpharius!". No StW for youpal! You also probably want a couple jump pack pyskers to use all the good stuff.

So you can infiltrate forwards havocs with whatever you feel the need to take, find a fire-base and take it for your own. The meat here are interchangeable squads of Chosen/Teminators with combi-plas all around. Termies are better, but more expensive so pick whichever you need. Infiltrate your kill team forward and try to game for first turn. ~With the 9cp's you've easily picked up you have plenty to spend on an alpha strike. Hit your kill team with Prescience, buff with Lord (also with combi-plas). Burn a CP for Veterans of the Long War (add 1 to damage dice for a unit) and shoot something big and nasty. Assuming 5 man squads you're getting 10 rapid fire bolter shots doing 2 damage a piece. And 10 rapid fire plasma doing 3 damage a piece. 2+ to hit, re-roll ones. Then throw out Endless Cacophany and do it again. Nothing says you only get VotLW for that one volley of fire, it still applies. So 20, 2 damage bolters and 20, 3 damage plasma that will only an 8% chance of missing per shot. And that's after your 5 or 6" move putting you 3" or 4" away from the chaff front line units. Termies are better for assaulting because of those power weapons but Chosen vs chaff will do ok without weapons. You're still Prescienced anyway so you still hit on 2+ regardless. If you wanted you could always add that 5+++ FnP to deal with counter charges or shooting. Or you could Warp Time a frickin Hellbrute into their face at the same and whack the FnP on that bad boy! I'd recommend a Contemptor :-D

You do that whilst dropping Raptors somewhere annoying and having your infiltrated Havoks lay down lascannon fire on whatever they like, because you'll struggle to hide your tanks from infiltrating Havoks. A couple 4 lascannon teams should be enough anti-tank, though your Chosen/Termies could easily bring down a non-Land Raider or Super Heavy tank by itself with plasma alone with all those boosted shots.

And then you have 6 squads of cultists with ObSec to run up and camp them. You can spare a couple for suicide charges to eat overwatch if you like. But if one of your sorcerers is Nurgle you can cast the -1 hit spell on a bunch of Cultists in cover on an objective and laugh as your opponent tries in vain to shoot them off it! Sure they can sen units over to slaughter them in melee, but then they have your entire line breathing down their neck from turn 1 to deal with...

I think Alpha Legion Alpha Strike is gonna be ridiculous. You have to burn like 5-7 CP's by the end of turn 1 to pull it off but you begin with 9 so you can afford them if that initial punch is strong enough to stun your opponent. And you can always that Arkhos guy as your Warlord and pick up another CP on top of this, but he's expensive as far as AL HQ's should go (you're paying a lot for HQ's already), though if FW were to FAQ their keywords so The Faithless sub-faction counted as an AL successor (the way SM successor chapters are meant to work, I think) then you might be able to keyword your whole army The Faithles and make use of his +1 to charge and advance rolls to run roughshod over your opponents units.


The cult spells are all very interesting. Tzeentch buffs invul saves, which isn't worth it on anything that lacks a save (the other two negate more damage than a 5++ will) but on something that already has 4+ it's really good. But it's vulnerable to pyschic overide and mortal wounds. 5+++ is great and stattistically the strongest, but in reality it's stronger to negate an entire d6 worth of damage at the first through third stages of damage resolution rather than rely on a 1/3 chance to negate each separate wound, however it does protect against mortal wounds. -1 to hit is great if you can combine it with AL or NL hit penalties and it's also great vs plasma or armies using hit buff aura's (which is most everyone). -1 to hit does impact BS4+ significantly more than BS3+ though, and I'd wager it practically cripples BS5+ units. In fact tat -1 is so good that Guard attempting to overcharge plasma will fail to hit you significantly more often than they'll hit, and will suicide themselves as often as they strike. It just won't be worth it for guard to overcharge against that unit unless they're desperate.

So the three cult powers each brings a completely different method of protection for your army. I think Tzeentch is clearly the weakest oft he three but there's something to be said for having a unit with a 3++ that's terrorising you when you don'nt have means to counter that invul or throw out mortal wounds. In that scenario it could be the strongest. Units for my own army I'm thinking of are a LR Achilles and a Contemptor, both of which can be in your face turn 1, both of which are feckin deadly, both of which have solid invul saves and both of which can hide in combat and regenerate, using the invul as cover to do so.

Man, so many choices!

What mark of Chaos do you think is best for the Fire Raptor if you want to give it buffs?
Tzeentch means you can give it a 5++,
Nurgle is -1 to hit,
Slaanesh is a 5+++.

Now obviously the Nurgle and Slaanesh powers are better but which one of these two to go for? Personally, I'm thinking go for the Nurgle Power because I already have a -1 to hit so BS5+ won't actually be able to hit me. What do you guys think?

 mrhappyface wrote:
What mark of Chaos do you think is best for the Fire Raptor if you want to give it buffs?
Tzeentch means you can give it a 5++,
Nurgle is -1 to hit,
Slaanesh is a 5+++.

Now obviously the Nurgle and Slaanesh powers are better but which one of these two to go for? Personally, I'm thinking go for the Nurgle Power because I already have a -1 to hit so BS5+ won't actually be able to hit me. What do you guys think?

Well for high wound model like Fire Raptor the 5+++ is probably the best as it triggers from every single damage? Or have I misunderstood the the rule works?

If I am correct, 5+++ is best by far if you are being shot with lascannons and weapons like that. 5++ is not very good as after failure you lose D6 wounds. 5+++ is extremely efficient though as if lascannon wounds you and you fail your 6+ save (Fire Raptor does get 6+ save against Lascannons), you get the 5+++ on every single Damage instance coming from every 1D6 damage roll.

I might add that Slaanesh, Nurgle or Tzeentch dedication on World Eaters Fire Raptor is ultimate blasphemy and your skull will surely be added to the skull throne after your army fails in the fields of battle

Ghorgul wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
What mark of Chaos do you think is best for the Fire Raptor if you want to give it buffs?
Tzeentch means you can give it a 5++,
Nurgle is -1 to hit,
Slaanesh is a 5+++.

Now obviously the Nurgle and Slaanesh powers are better but which one of these two to go for? Personally, I'm thinking go for the Nurgle Power because I already have a -1 to hit so BS5+ won't actually be able to hit me. What do you guys think?

Well for high wound model like Fire Raptor the 5+++ is probably the best as it triggers from every single damage? Or have I misunderstood the the rule works?

If I am correct, 5+++ is best by far if you are being shot with lascannons and weapons like that. 5++ is not very good as after failure you lose D6 wounds. 5+++ is extremely efficient though as if lascannon wounds you and you fail your 6+ save (Fire Raptor does get 6+ save against Lascannons), you get the 5+++ on every single Damage instance coming from every 1D6 damage roll.

But, -1 to hit and 5+++ save both have the same mathmatical outcome when being hit by a lascannon.

 mrhappyface wrote:

But, -1 to hit and 5+++ save both have the same mathmatical outcome when being hit by a lascannon.

Haha yeah, they are exactly the same I'm surprised. Well I guess -2 is then better as if enemy ends up using his re-rolls on the hit step it is better than later in the damage step.

And I guarantee that -2 is better if enemy has any auras available that allow re-rolling of failed to-hit rolls.

Ghorgul wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

But, -1 to hit and 5+++ save both have the same mathmatical outcome when being hit by a lascannon.

Haha yeah, they are exactly the same I'm surprised. Well I guess -2 is then better as if enemy ends up using his re-rolls on the hit step it is better than later in the damage step.

And I guarantee that -2 is better if enemy has any auras available that allow re-rolling of failed to-hit rolls.

That's true, if the unit has re-roll all to hit rolls then the -1 to hit is better than the 5+++.

OK enough doom and gloom for the black legion folks. I love em lol. I had a pretty sweet idea for a backfield chaos lord.

Black legion
Chaos lord,
jump pack
bolter and
power sword. Switch to Murder Sword
Mark of Slaanesh
WLT- Black crusader or whatever the BL one is called lol

Basically nominate any assault oriented killy character in the enemy army, even a front line tank provoding buffs and watch your opponent struggle to decide what to do. Heres why.

You can really feth up a character even Gobby G. Lets consider they send Bobby G himself in.

You hop this guy out casting prescience on him (you'll see why in a minute) Start off by firing a demon bolt into him for D3 Mortal wounds, next burn a CP for Endless Cacaphony, plug him again for another d3 Mortal wounds . thats an average of 4 but you can always burn a CP to fish for more with a reroll. EDIT can't pull off two shots but 1 is still sweet with a CP reroll to ensure 2-3 MW's.

Now charge in, you hit on 2's rerolling but thanks to prescience and your WL trait your death to the false emperor is now triggering on 4's, so half your attacks are generating more hits. All those hits also bypass wounding and saves for Mortal Wounds.

You can drop Bobby G himself in a single turn with this guy and the help of 1CP and prescience. He's also dirt cheap and he and the sorceror with prescience keep that quad las predator hitting on rerollable 2's so this really doesn't require much of a commitment outside what you normally would take if any.

If he can solo a primarch he can solo pretty much any enemy beatstick thats a character.

Hmm I feth up on the demon bolt obviously ( I was excited lol), but that said I still love this load out. In place of endless cacophony I'd then go MoK for the extra attack and a shot at a second attack phase if your opponent can't spare the 2 CP's to interrupt it. just Smite the guy for the second dose of MW's You'll want a jump pack for the sorceror.

What's the murder sword do?

Gibs55 wrote:
What's the murder sword do?

Murders.

Points changes (excuse spelling and may have misheard one or two as on my phone).

Brimestones 2-3
Bikers 31-25
Cultists 31-25
Chaos Lord Term 122-105
Predator 102-90
Defiler 216-152
Vindicator 160-135
Lord Skulls 465-365
Maulerfiend 149-140 (may have misheard this one)
Mutilatiors 65-50
Noise Marines 16-15
Plague Marines 21-19
Warpsmith 78-45
Abbadon 253-240
Khan 173-160
Bloodleters 9-7
Horrors 10-8
Plaugebearers 8-7
Demonetts 9-7

Bale Flammer 60-30
Blast Master 28-20
Hades autocannon 33-25
Reaper cannon 18-15
Soul reaper cannon 20-15
Demonic axe 45-10
Hellforged sword 42-10
Lightning claws 9/13 - 8/12
Plauge sword 3-1
Power fist 20-12

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wQa-to_os94

Alpha legion obliterators with mark of tzeench and changeling

lbennett1991 wrote:
Alpha legion obliterators with mark of tzeench and changeling

lbennett1991 wrote:
Alpha legion obliterators with mark of tzeench and changeling

What about them?

I will never again say GW doesn't love Slaanesh.


Noise Marines:

- Noise Marines are 15 pts.
- Sonic Blaster stayed at 4 pts.
- Blastmasters are 20 pts, its now just better than a missile launcher in every way, you can now get a 5X MSU squad with a Blastmaster for 95 pts!
- Doom Sirens are now: Assault D6 instead of D3.

Sonic Dreadnought:

- Due to Blastmaster dropping 8 pts each, it's cost went down 16 pts, getting you most of the cost back to take an improved Doom Siren.
- Fire Frenzy: for 1 CP its can fire twice if it doesn't move for 4D3 shot at S8/AP-2/DMG D3, for potentially 36 damage in a single shooting phase.

Daemonettes:

- Daemonettes are 7 pts a 22% point drop; saving 20-60 pts depending on the units size.


Emperor's Children Legion Trait - Flawless Perfection:

- Legion Traits are abilities available Chaos to Infantry, Bikers and Helbrutes of the same Legion.
- Units with this trait always fight first in the Fight phase even if they didn’t charge.
- If the enemy charge or has a similar ability, then alternate choosing units to fight with.
- Starting with the player whose turn is taking place.

Emperor's Children Warlord Trait - Stimulated By Pain:

- Add +1 to your Warlords attacks characteristic for each wound he has suffered.
- To a maximum of +3 attacks.
- If the Warlord heals any wounds, he loses the associated bonus attacks.

Slaanesh Stratagem - Endless Cacophony:

- For 2 CP a marked Infantry or Biker units can fire twice.
- Effects: Havocs, Obliterators, Chosen, Terminators, Raptors and Bikes.
- Obliterators are Assault 4, minimum unit size of 3, firing twice for 24 shots!
- Bike are now only 25 pts!

Emperor's Children Stratagem - Excess of Violence:

- For 1 CP a marked Infantry units gains +1 attack for each model slain in the fight phase.

Slaanesh Psychic Power - Delightful Agonies:

- : for a 5+ FNP.

Emperor'd Children Artifact - Intoxicating Elixir:

- SLAANESH model only.
- Add +1 to the bearer’s Strength and Attack characteristics.

Emperor'd Children Artifact - Blissgiver:

- EMPEROR’S CHILDREN model only.
- Blissgiver: 6”/Assault D6/S: User/AP-1/Dam 1; replaces the models bolt pistol.
- If an enemy Character model is wounded by Blissgiver but not slain.
- Roll D6 at the end of the phase, on a 6 they suffer D3 mortal wounds.

demons players with what versions of horrors, demonettes and so on, will play? i guess the one showed in chaos marines codex

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Daemon troops don't get ObSec, & mean you can't use Legion Traits (they lack the <Legion> & Heretic Astartes Keyword). In fact taking the Daemon Troops means any other Heretic Astartes troops in the detachment don't get ObSec

This is incorrect.
"If your army is Battle-forged, all Troops units in Chaos Space Marine Detachments gain this ability...."

Chaos Space Marine Detachments can take Plaguebearers, Daemonettes, 'Letters, and Horrors as troops. It does not say anything about Heretic Astartes. Heretic Astartes =! Chaos Space Marine Detachment.

The way I read this is that if you take daemonettes as troops with a daemon prince from the CSM codex, you get Obsec.

And under the Chaos Space Marine Units section, it says a Chaos Space Marine unit is any unit with the <Legion>, Black Legion, Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Night Lords, World Eaters, Emperor's Children, Fallen or Red Corsair keywords, and that a Chaos Space Marine Detachment is therefore any detachment that includes only units with one of those keywords.

None of the 4 Daemon entries have any of those keywords, and thus make the detachment not be a Chaos Space Marine detachments, so no more Despoilers of the Galaxy (ObSec).

 Sersi wrote:
I will never again say GW doesn't love Slaanesh.


Noise Marines:

- Noise Marines are 15 pts.
- Sonic Blaster stayed at 4 pts.
- Blastmasters are 20 pts, its now just better than a missile launcher in every way, you can now get a 5X MSU squad with a Blastmaster for 95 pts!
- Doom Sirens are now: Assault D6 instead of D3.

Sonic Dreadnought:

- Due to Blastmaster dropping 8 pts each, it's cost went down 16 pts, getting you most of the cost back to take an improved Doom Siren.
- Fire Frenzy: for 1 CP its can fire twice if it doesn't move for 4D3 shot at S8/AP-2/DMG D3, for potentially 36 damage in a single shooting phase.

Daemonettes:

- Daemonettes are 7 pts a 22% point drop; saving 20-60 pts depending on the units size.


Emperor's Children Legion Trait - Flawless Perfection:

- Legion Traits are abilities available Chaos to Infantry, Bikers and Helbrutes of the same Legion.
- Units with this trait always fight first in the Fight phase even if they didn’t charge.
- If the enemy charge or has a similar ability, then alternate choosing units to fight with.
- Starting with the player whose turn is taking place.

Emperor's Children Warlord Trait - Stimulated By Pain:

- Add +1 to your Warlords attacks characteristic for each wound he has suffered.
- To a maximum of +3 attacks.
- If the Warlord heals any wounds, he loses the associated bonus attacks.

Slaanesh Stratagem - Endless Cacophony:

- For 2 CP a marked Infantry or Biker units can fire twice.
- Effects: Havocs, Obliterators, Chosen, Terminators, Raptors and Bikes.
- Obliterators are Assault 4, minimum unit size of 3, firing twice for 24 shots!
- Bike are now only 25 pts!

Emperor's Children Stratagem - Excess of Violence:

- For 1 CP a marked Infantry units gains +1 attack for each model slain in the fight phase.

Slaanesh Psychic Power - Delightful Agonies:

- : for a 5+ FNP.

Emperor'd Children Artifact - Intoxicating Elixir:

- SLAANESH model only.
- Add +1 to the bearer’s Strength and Attack characteristics.

Emperor'd Children Artifact - Blissgiver:

- EMPEROR’S CHILDREN model only.
- Blissgiver: 6”/Assault D6/S: User/AP-1/Dam 1; replaces the models bolt pistol.
- If an enemy Character model is wounded by Blissgiver but not slain.
- Roll D6 at the end of the phase, on a 6 they suffer D3 mortal wounds.

So... Emperor's children mid-range gunline of Helbrutes and Noise Marines (max units because let's take advantage of strategems) and Daemonettes for counter charge. An ork Horde gets within 24" and you open up fire with your sonics and then open it again: 20 man squad now firing a total of 114 S4 ignores cover shots and another 2d6 S4 AP-1 ignores cover shots and the sonics dread doing another 4d6 S4 AP-1 shots. Once (what is left) hits your gunline, you fight first and activate the Excess of Violence strategem on top of the Icon of Excess for a total of 41 attacks generating extra attacks on a 5+ and generating even more when you kill units. And if what went through that meat grinder is still alive? Back out of combat and charge with the Daemonettes.

Emperor's children are shaping up to be THE anti-cc army, seriously whatever doesn't die to shooting/overwatch will get murdered in cc!

Pretty sure Slaanesh marked termies are the best termies in the game now 500pts for 10 armed with power swords or mauls + combi-plasma.

40 rapid fire plasma shots (you can also throw in the 40 bolter shots depending on what you are shooting) which should be enough to alpha strike two units (especially with support characters) you then try and charge a 3rd unit and kill that off in melee.

So my idea you drop in the 10 Slaanesh termies 9 inch away where they are hopefully within 12 of 2 units along with a lord and sorcerer, have the sorcerer cast presence for that 2+ re-rollerble BS, then cast either delightful agonies to give them 5+++, or warp time to move closer to more delicious targets or to prepare for a charge.

Meanwhile the rest of your army should be pretty chill since most people will have an oh gak reaction when they watch the 40 str8, ap-3, 2D shots obliterate a couple of squads.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Emperor's children are shaping up to be THE anti-cc army, seriously whatever doesn't die to shooting/overwatch will get murdered in cc!

Slaanesh in general is shaping up to be the go to shooting mark for chaos, like how khorne is now the go to melee mark.

 mrhappyface wrote:
What mark of Chaos do you think is best for the Fire Raptor if you want to give it buffs?
Tzeentch means you can give it a 5++,
Nurgle is -1 to hit,
Slaanesh is a 5+++.

Now obviously the Nurgle and Slaanesh powers are better but which one of these two to go for? Personally, I'm thinking go for the Nurgle Power because I already have a -1 to hit so BS5+ won't actually be able to hit me. What do you guys think?

Wouldn't Nurgle combine with the -1 for Hard to Hit so it's a -2, or am I being dumb for not reading the rules?

 Frozocrone wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
What mark of Chaos do you think is best for the Fire Raptor if you want to give it buffs?
Tzeentch means you can give it a 5++,
Nurgle is -1 to hit,
Slaanesh is a 5+++.

Now obviously the Nurgle and Slaanesh powers are better but which one of these two to go for? Personally, I'm thinking go for the Nurgle Power because I already have a -1 to hit so BS5+ won't actually be able to hit me. What do you guys think?

Wouldn't Nurgle combine with the -1 for Hard to Hit so it's a -2, or am I being dumb for not reading the rules?

That's what I said, I already have a -1 to hit so BS5+ won't actually be able to hit me.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
What mark of Chaos do you think is best for the Fire Raptor if you want to give it buffs?
Tzeentch means you can give it a 5++,
Nurgle is -1 to hit,
Slaanesh is a 5+++.

Now obviously the Nurgle and Slaanesh powers are better but which one of these two to go for? Personally, I'm thinking go for the Nurgle Power because I already have a -1 to hit so BS5+ won't actually be able to hit me. What do you guys think?

Wouldn't Nurgle combine with the -1 for Hard to Hit so it's a -2, or am I being dumb for not reading the rules?

That's what I said, I already have a -1 to hit so BS5+ won't actually be able to hit me.

Yeah, I stopped reading after the Slaanesh 5+++ Good ol' Orks getting some love.

Out of curiousity, what would the Khorne benefit (if any) be?

 Frozocrone wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
What mark of Chaos do you think is best for the Fire Raptor if you want to give it buffs?
Tzeentch means you can give it a 5++,
Nurgle is -1 to hit,
Slaanesh is a 5+++.

Now obviously the Nurgle and Slaanesh powers are better but which one of these two to go for? Personally, I'm thinking go for the Nurgle Power because I already have a -1 to hit so BS5+ won't actually be able to hit me. What do you guys think?

Wouldn't Nurgle combine with the -1 for Hard to Hit so it's a -2, or am I being dumb for not reading the rules?

That's what I said, I already have a -1 to hit so BS5+ won't actually be able to hit me.

Yeah, I stopped reading after the Slaanesh 5+++ Good ol' Orks getting some love.

Out of curiousity, what would the Khorne benefit (if any) be?

What Khorne benefit?

 mrhappyface wrote:
What Khorne benefit?

Oh, I've not followed the Chaos rumours aside the ones posted on Warhammer community so thought you knew what the Mark of Khorne does.

 Frozocrone wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
What Khorne benefit?

Oh, I've not followed the Chaos rumours aside the ones posted on Warhammer community so thought you knew what the Mark of Khorne does.

Marks do nothing this edition, those up there are psychic powers.