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 Rydria wrote:
I don't see how bloodletters are trash, they are the most cost efficient power swords in the game.

There big weakness is getting shot which can be negated by either summoning them within 9 inch then having them pull off a 8 inch charge (instruments) where they will slaughter what ever they charged.

Or by using a wave tactics using fast units/deep striking units that provide a significant threat and forcing your opponent to deal with those first.

The above tactics work for both khorne and slaanesh though the later works better for slaanesh due to being a bit faster.

Bloodletters are trash because they have the misfortune of being both fragile and slow. An 8'' charge is going to fail 75% of the time, after which they're sitting ducks and easy points to score for your opponent.

Distraction carnifex is the last resort for all bad units. The thing is though, if I wanted a distraction carnifex there are better options.

As always, there are never truly "useless" units, but there's no reason to take Bloodletters in lieu of something else unless you're forced to by going mono khorne or something.

Can daemon troops ride in chaos drop pods? The requirement is Mark of Chaos Infantry. I was thinking one use would be to fly the letters in and unload. Packs a good punch and much cheaper than zerkers.

 BlaxicanX wrote:


Bloodletters are trash because they have the misfortune of being both fragile and slow. An 8'' charge is going to fail 75% of the time, after which they're sitting ducks and easy points to score for your opponent.

Distraction carnifex is the last resort for all bad units. The thing is though, if I wanted a distraction carnifex there are better options.

As always, there are never truly "uselsss" units, but there's no reason to take Bloodletters in lieu of something else unless you're forced to by going mono khorne or something.

41.66% chance to succeed before re-rolling isn't a 75% failure chance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
Can daemon troops ride in chaos drop pods? The requirement is Mark of Chaos Infantry. I was thinking one use would be to fly the letters in and unload. Packs a good punch and much cheaper than zerkers.

They can ride in dreadclaws but it is probably better to just summon them

Summoning on 3 dice.
99.7% chance to summon 10 Lesser Daemons (Bloodletters, Daemonettes, Plaguebearers)
83.9% chance to summon 20 Lesser Daemons (Bloodletters, Daemonettes, Plaguebearers)
50.1% chance to summon 30 Lesser Daemons (Bloodletters, Daemonettes, Plaguebearers)

 Rydria wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:


Bloodletters are trash because they have the misfortune of being both fragile and slow. An 8'' charge is going to fail 75% of the time, after which they're sitting ducks and easy points to score for your opponent.

Distraction carnifex is the last resort for all bad units. The thing is though, if I wanted a distraction carnifex there are better options.

As always, there are never truly "uselsss" units, but there's no reason to take Bloodletters in lieu of something else unless you're forced to by going mono khorne or something.

41.66% chance to succeed before re-rolling isn't a 75% failure chance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
Can daemon troops ride in chaos drop pods? The requirement is Mark of Chaos Infantry. I was thinking one use would be to fly the letters in and unload. Packs a good punch and much cheaper than zerkers.

They can ride in dreadclaws but it is probably better to just summon them

Summoning on 3 dice.
99.7% chance to summon 10 Lesser Daemons (Bloodletters, Daemonettes, Plaguebearers)
83.9% chance to summon 20 Lesser Daemons (Bloodletters, Daemonettes, Plaguebearers)
50.1% chance to summon 30 Lesser Daemons (Bloodletters, Daemonettes, Plaguebearers)

On top of this if you don't shoot the bloodletters you're in a world of pain. for a 10 man unit on a charge you're looking at 21 attacks with 5 str(6 if with herald) AP -3 and the ability to do 2 dmg on wound rolls of 6. Compound that with the fact that they are cheap and I say they're pretty awesome. Just don't walk them down the board and have other scary things and you're fine.

They cant ride in any transports because they specifically say things like "heretic astartes"

 Leth wrote:
They cant ride in any transports because they specifically say things like "heretic astartes"

it's only friendly <LEGION> units.

Maybe someone can clarify something for me, but if you want to take full advantage of Berserker's 2nd, (and possibly 3rd with the strat) attacks, do you need to initially name every target you MIGHT later want to hit, in a multi-charge?

Obviously you can't put attacks into something you didn't declare part of your charge, but after their initial big attack, and any consolidation, etc... does this extend to their 2nd full fight-phase?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Maybe someone can clarify something for me, but if you want to take full advantage of Berserker's 2nd, (and possibly 3rd with the strat) attacks, do you need to initially name every target you MIGHT later want to hit, in a multi-charge?

Obviously you can't put attacks into something you didn't declare part of your charge, but after their initial big attack, and any consolidation, etc... does this extend to their 2nd full fight-phase?

The target of every one of their fight phases (on a turn they've charged) need to be a unit that they declared a charge against. So if you didn't declare a charge against two units and you whiped a squad in your first fight round, then you can't attack a second unit with your second round of fighting because you didn't declare a charge against them.

 mrhappyface wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Maybe someone can clarify something for me, but if you want to take full advantage of Berserker's 2nd, (and possibly 3rd with the strat) attacks, do you need to initially name every target you MIGHT later want to hit, in a multi-charge?

Obviously you can't put attacks into something you didn't declare part of your charge, but after their initial big attack, and any consolidation, etc... does this extend to their 2nd full fight-phase?

The target of every one of their fight phases (on a turn they've charged) need to be a unit that they declared a charge against. So if you didn't declare a charge against two units and you whiped a squad in your first fight round, then you can't attack a second unit with your second round of fighting because you didn't declare a charge against them.

Allthough for hilarity sake you can still do your pile in and consolidation. Just cant attack

 Leth wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Maybe someone can clarify something for me, but if you want to take full advantage of Berserker's 2nd, (and possibly 3rd with the strat) attacks, do you need to initially name every target you MIGHT later want to hit, in a multi-charge?

Obviously you can't put attacks into something you didn't declare part of your charge, but after their initial big attack, and any consolidation, etc... does this extend to their 2nd full fight-phase?

The target of every one of their fight phases (on a turn they've charged) need to be a unit that they declared a charge against. So if you didn't declare a charge against two units and you whiped a squad in your first fight round, then you can't attack a second unit with your second round of fighting because you didn't declare a charge against them.

Allthough for hilarity sake you can still do your pile in and consolidation. Just cant attack

Aye, whipe two units and tie up a third.

Thanks guys, that makes complete sense, but I felt obliged to ask as some special abilities like the Sisters Act of Faith which gives them an out of sequence attack doesn't seem to have any restriction.

What do you think of plasma fallen squad guys ?

PandatheWarrior wrote:
What do you think of plasma fallen squad guys ?

Meh, I'd rather take chosen/havoc plasma since you can stick them in transports.

 mrhappyface wrote:

PandatheWarrior wrote:
What do you think of plasma fallen squad guys ?

Meh, I'd rather take chosen/havoc plasma since you can stick them in transports.

They are good for protecting your table side and as objective campers. The lack of transport options makes them hard to use otherwise.

With regards to Fallen versus Havocs, the two things I like about Fallen are the extra attack and the morale rule. I like the idea that they might stick around a little longer if they are ever charged.

So i have a load of khorne bezerkers in an old 'Khorne' army, but it seems like the best way to run them is not with the World Eaters legion.

I have been trying to think of the easiest way of getting them into combat and have the following options for a potential Turn 1 combat:

Alpha Legion - Use strategem to deploy 20 bezerkers >9" away (and hope for first turn!)

Renegades - Use a psyker to warptime 20 bezerkers so that they can move and advance twice. Averages as 9.5" + 9.5 puts you 5" away on a standard 24" midboard (assuming both armies deployed at the edge of their zones). You can still re-roll a charge if needed.

Anyone have any others? If both of the above are viable, i may even consider running a detachment of each legion for maximum scary-ness!

Levski wrote:
So i have a load of khorne bezerkers in an old 'Khorne' army, but it seems like the best way to run them is not with the World Eaters legion.

I have been trying to think of the easiest way of getting them into combat and have the following options for a potential Turn 1 combat:

Alpha Legion - Use strategem to deploy 20 bezerkers >9" away (and hope for first turn!)

Renegades - Use a psyker to warptime 20 bezerkers so that they can move and advance twice. Averages as 9.5" + 9.5 puts you 5" away on a standard 24" midboard (assuming both armies deployed at the edge of their zones). You can still re-roll a charge if needed.

Anyone have any others? If both of the above are viable, i may even consider running a detachment of each legion for maximum scary-ness!

You don't have the "hope you get first turn".

The FLG guys, and I believe a GW FAQ regarding Dominion moves which are worded the same way, suggest the placement happens after the Seize roll. So you either go 9" away if you know you're going first, or hide them half-way up table and within a flying Psykers Warp-Time range, otherwise.

 Leth wrote:
They cant ride in any transports because they specifically say things like "heretic astartes"

The pods say Legion or Mark of Chaos Infantry.

Levski wrote:
So i have a load of khorne bezerkers in an old 'Khorne' army, but it seems like the best way to run them is not with the World Eaters legion.

I have been trying to think of the easiest way of getting them into combat and have the following options for a potential Turn 1 combat:

Alpha Legion - Use strategem to deploy 20 bezerkers >9" away (and hope for first turn!)

Renegades - Use a psyker to warptime 20 bezerkers so that they can move and advance twice. Averages as 9.5" + 9.5 puts you 5" away on a standard 24" midboard (assuming both armies deployed at the edge of their zones). You can still re-roll a charge if needed.

Anyone have any others? If both of the above are viable, i may even consider running a detachment of each legion for maximum scary-ness!

I have been playing a variant of the following: Kharbdis Assault Claw with Kharne + 19 Berzerkers, plus 2 Terminator Sorcerers.

I did not know this before yesterday, but you can't move the turn you disembark from a KAC. You can assault, so cast warptime to move the Berzerkers in to get a 3 inch charge. The KAC can move 15 inches and has a devastating charge of it's own against vehicles, monsters and titanic things.

Even without the stratagem in the new Codex, it's about the best alpha strike any army could hope for. I played this against Eldar and ate about a third of his army before 2nd turn, tabled him by 4th turn.

,Anyone tried relic contemptor dreads?

BloodPigeons89B wrote:
,Anyone tried relic contemptor dreads?

Relic!? Get out!

 techsoldaten wrote:

Levski wrote:
So i have a load of khorne bezerkers in an old 'Khorne' army, but it seems like the best way to run them is not with the World Eaters legion.

I have been trying to think of the easiest way of getting them into combat and have the following options for a potential Turn 1 combat:

Alpha Legion - Use strategem to deploy 20 bezerkers >9" away (and hope for first turn!)

Renegades - Use a psyker to warptime 20 bezerkers so that they can move and advance twice. Averages as 9.5" + 9.5 puts you 5" away on a standard 24" midboard (assuming both armies deployed at the edge of their zones). You can still re-roll a charge if needed.

Anyone have any others? If both of the above are viable, i may even consider running a detachment of each legion for maximum scary-ness!

I have been playing a variant of the following: Kharbdis Assault Claw with Kharne + 19 Berzerkers, plus 2 Terminator Sorcerers.

I did not know this before yesterday, but you can't move the turn you disembark from a KAC. You can assault, so cast warptime to move the Berzerkers in to get a 3 inch charge. The KAC can move 15 inches and has a devastating charge of it's own against vehicles, monsters and titanic things.

Even without the stratagem in the new Codex, it's about the best alpha strike any army could hope for. I played this against Eldar and ate about a third of his army before 2nd turn, tabled him by 4th turn.

You can't cast WT on them if they are in it....
or do you mean cast WT on the KAC first turn, that'd work

 Latro_ wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

Levski wrote:
So i have a load of khorne bezerkers in an old 'Khorne' army, but it seems like the best way to run them is not with the World Eaters legion.

I have been trying to think of the easiest way of getting them into combat and have the following options for a potential Turn 1 combat:

Alpha Legion - Use strategem to deploy 20 bezerkers >9" away (and hope for first turn!)

Renegades - Use a psyker to warptime 20 bezerkers so that they can move and advance twice. Averages as 9.5" + 9.5 puts you 5" away on a standard 24" midboard (assuming both armies deployed at the edge of their zones). You can still re-roll a charge if needed.

Anyone have any others? If both of the above are viable, i may even consider running a detachment of each legion for maximum scary-ness!

I have been playing a variant of the following: Kharbdis Assault Claw with Kharne + 19 Berzerkers, plus 2 Terminator Sorcerers.

I did not know this before yesterday, but you can't move the turn you disembark from a KAC. You can assault, so cast warptime to move the Berzerkers in to get a 3 inch charge. The KAC can move 15 inches and has a devastating charge of it's own against vehicles, monsters and titanic things.

Even without the stratagem in the new Codex, it's about the best alpha strike any army could hope for. I played this against Eldar and ate about a third of his army before 2nd turn, tabled him by 4th turn.

You can't cast WT on them if they are in it....

They aren't in it, they disembarked...

ah ofc, for some reason thought they had to stay in it.

still WT on the klaw its self might work too

BloodPigeons89B wrote:
,Anyone tried relic contemptor dreads?

I'm using the Loyalist ones, and I can tell you they're wonderful on this side. Not losing speed after losing wounds is very clutch compared to the regular ones losing movement speed. I'd rather take the random attacks than that.

Red corsairs with 3 hellforged contemptors with claw, chainfist and two plasma blasters, or 2 with claw/fist and soulburners and one with claw/fist hellflamers?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mrhappyface wrote:

BloodPigeons89B wrote:
,Anyone tried relic contemptor dreads?

Relic!? Get out!

Hellforged my bad, couldn't think of the word.

BloodPigeons89B wrote:
,Anyone tried relic contemptor dreads?

I don't know but this this other guy (he had a similar name to you) asked something similar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BloodPigeons89B wrote:
Red corsairs with 3 hellforged contemptors with claw, chainfist and two plasma blasters, or 2 with claw/fist and soulburners and one with claw/fist hellflamers?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mrhappyface wrote:

BloodPigeons89B wrote:
,Anyone tried relic contemptor dreads?

Relic!? Get out!

Hellforged my bad, couldn't think of the word.

Personally more of a Leviathan guy: those beasts are so tough!

What do you guy prefer :

Chosen with special ranged weapons or Havocs with special ranged weapons ?

I ask because, of course, Havocs are cheaper, but they are also a source of heavy weapons.

I ran some plasma havocs for the last Konor mission as kind of a clean up crew. So if something got to my lines I would pull them in and rapid fire with some buffs on them. Worked pretty well for really cheap.

I mean you can have more than one havoc squad.

Chosen though get better leadership and more attacks and can have some melee special weapon back ups havocs don't which is nice.

 Khornate25 wrote:
What do you guy prefer :

Chosen with special ranged weapons or Havocs with special ranged weapons ?

I ask because, of course, Havocs are cheaper, but they are also a source of heavy weapons.

Havocs all the way, don't really see a need for chosen unless you want a cc orientated unit (even then I'd go for the cult units... mostly...).

With the changes to Oblits, I'm not sure why people would take Havocs now...
They can DS, They are tougher and are costed similarly.

Heres the Obliterators profile against a Hammerhead. (Generic T7 vehicle) - I had the page to hand.

Ive attached Leviathan/Oblits (6) and I have also simmed 2 units of havocs. Lascannons.



Pts per damage tells all.

In summary, Oblits, on average, will be better than similar points in Havocs. While being more survivable.
Levi is only there to highlight how efficient it is.
Your welcome MrHappy.