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 mrhappyface wrote:

And TS have to wait how long before they get Rubric troops again? How hard would it have been to put it in the book?

They didnt even need that. Put out a data slate something with the basic info on TS and DG so we have something to work with rather then "Haha feth you you get nothing after we restircted your units to less then half of what you had before."

Why can't TS use Rubrics as troops anymore? You can still use the index can't you? You dont have to have the CSM codex....

 nintura wrote:
Why can't TS use Rubrics as troops anymore? You can still use the index can't you? You dont have to have the CSM codex....

Not if your units are updated in the codex.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Why can't TS use Rubrics as troops anymore? You can still use the index can't you? You dont have to have the CSM codex....

Not if your units are updated in the codex.

Where exactly does it say that? Because there's a huge difference in Thousand Sons and standard Chaos Space Marines. Did GW come out and specifically say this? Because according to the index, Rubrics with <Thousand Sons> count as troops instead of Elites, meaning it's a replacement effect.

I still think index troop cults are legal just waiting for GW to clarify. Since if there counted as the same datasheet a few other ones like daemon princes will be considered updated too and heretic astartes powers don't work on daemons.

 nintura wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Why can't TS use Rubrics as troops anymore? You can still use the index can't you? You dont have to have the CSM codex....

Not if your units are updated in the codex.

Where exactly does it say that? Because there's a huge difference in Thousand Sons and standard Chaos Space Marines. Did GW come out and specifically say this? Because according to the index, Rubrics with <Thousand Sons> count as troops instead of Elites, meaning it's a replacement effect.

Same reason why World Eaters have to use the new Berzerkers: the unit entry has been updated in a newer book. You can't pick and choose which unit entries you want to use.

This is similar to when Horrors got updated in WoM with the "split" rule and people wanted to use the old rules but GW said no.


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 Rydria wrote:
I still think index troop cults are legal just waiting for GW to clarify. Since if there counted as the same datasheet a few other ones like daemon princes will be considered updated too and heretic astartes powers don't work on daemons.

I agreed with this until the codex designer said cult units were no longer troops.

I cannot see that being the case. That goes against what GW was saying about having to buy large number of books. This is quite literally forcing people to buy the new index when they came out, then the new codex, and finally the 1k Sons codex again when it comes out.

The codex writer CAN say that. Because those Rubrics are NOT Thousand Sons. They are generic Rubrics without the <Thousand Sons> tag are they not? So in a generic Heretic Astartes army, yes, they'd be Elites.

Besides, Thousand Sons are not even mentioned in the codex. Not in warlord traits, chapter tactics, nothing. By your logic, you cannot play a 1k Sons army at all any longer.

 nintura wrote:
I cannot see that being the case. That goes against what GW was saying about having to buy large number of books. This is quite literally forcing people to buy the new index when they came out, then the new codex, and finally the 1k Sons codex again when it comes out.

The codex writer CAN say that. Because those Rubrics are NOT Thousand Sons. They are generic Rubrics without the <Thousand Sons> tag are they not? So in a generic Heretic Astartes army, yes, they'd be Elites.

It was asked whether WORLD EATERS Berzerkers were troops and he said no.

As for less books, well they keep their promise: as a TS player you are only carrying 1 or 2 of those books to a game, they said nothing about forcing you to buy all the books just about what you'd need to carry.

Well, you play your way, I'll play mine. As it stands, 1k Sons have no codex, so you default to the index.

 nintura wrote:
Well, you play your way, I'll play mine. As it stands, 1k Sons have no codex, so you default to the index.

I'm not talking about playing my way your way, in friendly games I'm still going to use Berzerker troops, I'm talking about tournament/official games: I don't think GW would let you use cult troops in tournaments.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Well, you play your way, I'll play mine. As it stands, 1k Sons have no codex, so you default to the index.

I'm not talking about playing my way your way, in friendly games I'm still going to use Berzerker troops, I'm talking about tournament/official games: I don't think GW would let you use cult troops in tournaments.

We dont know the answer to that because they haven't answered. Personally I think it's pretty clear. Elite Rubrics have always been for the non-Thousand Sons armies. Have been that way since the beginning of time.

 nintura wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Well, you play your way, I'll play mine. As it stands, 1k Sons have no codex, so you default to the index.

I'm not talking about playing my way your way, in friendly games I'm still going to use Berzerker troops, I'm talking about tournament/official games: I don't think GW would let you use cult troops in tournaments.

We dont know the answer to that because they haven't answered. Personally I think it's pretty clear. Elite Rubrics have always been for the non-Thousand Sons armies. Have been that way since the beginning of time.

I thought it was pretty clear until a GW game designer said you can't take them as troops anymore, the likely hood is that GW tournaments will take his word as gosbel.

TS and Rubrics are irrelevant anyway to the discussion, they've not got their codex yet (and CSM isn't their codex) so they use the Index.

 andysonic1 wrote:

 Arkaine wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
And TS have to wait how long before they get Rubric troops again? How hard would it have been to put it in the book?

Zero days. As people enjoy making abundantly clear when it benefits them to, TS are denied all the updated crap in the Codex. We're an Index only army so screw you all, I still has troobrics.

Le wut? You would take troop rubrics over cheaper units/wargear across the board, more powers, and more stratagems? Taking a cult unit as a troop instead of Elite is more important to you than having an overall better army? I mean if my opponent said he was using the index over the codex for everything I would just straight up let them gimp themselves all they want but I sure as hell won't.

Your thinking short game. We need CP for rerolls because perils is our biggest threat. Next to overcharged plasma. All those extra stratagems and spells do us no good unless we have the CP to spend on them

The rules for the Thousand Sons faction have not been replaced yet. Literally the only way to play that Faction is to use the index. In fact, the Chaos book specifically says you can't use Thousand Son instead of the <Legion> tag in that book. And that part of the index that tells you how to run the TS faction, tells you they are troops. I think this stands until they get a book, since the rule saying they are troops overwrites the codex entry, which overwrites the index entry.

 nintura wrote:


We dont know the answer to that because they haven't answered. Personally I think it's pretty clear. Elite Rubrics have always been for the non-Thousand Sons armies. Have been that way since the beginning of time.

I thought the same thung when the Index came out. But GW made it clear by slapping TS on to Rubricae they are a troops choice and are treated as troops in ANY army.


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 mrhappyface wrote:

I thought it was pretty clear until a GW game designer said you can't take them as troops anymore, the likely hood is that GW tournaments will take his word as gosbel.

Do you have a link for this? Would really apperciate it if you could post it.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 nintura wrote:
I cannot see that being the case. That goes against what GW was saying about having to buy large number of books. This is quite literally forcing people to buy the new index when they came out, then the new codex, and finally the 1k Sons codex again when it comes out.

The codex writer CAN say that. Because those Rubrics are NOT Thousand Sons. They are generic Rubrics without the <Thousand Sons> tag are they not? So in a generic Heretic Astartes army, yes, they'd be Elites.

It was asked whether WORLD EATERS Berzerkers were troops and he said no.

As for less books, well they keep their promise: as a TS player you are only carrying 1 or 2 of those books to a game, they said nothing about forcing you to buy all the books just about what you'd need to carry.

There is context though if you asked him if they are troops in the codex, he is going to say no, just like if you had asked are juggernaut lords in the codex he would also say no, it is the context of the question.

Also the codex writer has made some huge errors emperor's children and world eaters are no longer cult legions rules wise you can have rubics marines/plague marines in both legions and you aren't restricted by what marks you can take you can have mark of slaanesh world eaters or khornite emperor's children which makes no sense.

From their community page when I asked about this:

"The new codex specifically says that none of the rules in the codex apply to thousand sons or death guard and that they will be getting their own codex so that means that in the mean time you have to use the index rules for them which means rubrics are troops if you use a thousand son army.
Hope that helps"

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 nintura wrote:


We dont know the answer to that because they haven't answered. Personally I think it's pretty clear. Elite Rubrics have always been for the non-Thousand Sons armies. Have been that way since the beginning of time.

I thought the same thung when the Index came out. But GW made it clear by slapping TS on to Rubricae they are a troops choice and are treated as troops in ANY army.


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 mrhappyface wrote:

I thought it was pretty clear until a GW game designer said you can't take them as troops anymore, the likely hood is that GW tournaments will take his word as gosbel.

Do you have a link for this? Would really apperciate it if you could post it.

This is my argument for all cult troops for falling under the not updated category, since they are different datasheets from the generic ones by having a different battlefield roll and keywords.

Generic on the left, legion specific on the right.
Chaos, heretic Astarte, Khorne <Legions> vs Chaos, heretic Astarte, Khorne, World eaters (Khorne Berserkers)
Chaos, heretic Astarte, Slaanesh <Legions> vs Chaos, heretic Astarte, Slaanesh, Emperor's children (Noise Marines)
Chaos, heretic Astarte, tzeentch <Legions> vs Chaos, heretic Astarte, , tzeentch, Thousand sons (Rubic marines)
Chaos, heretic Astartes, Nurgle <Legions> vs Chaos, heretic Astarte, Nurgle, Deathguard (Plague marines)

It would be like claiming index chaos daemon daemon princes are no longer legal because they have an identical name to chaos space marine daemon princes who just got updated despite them having different keywords and psychic powers.

If i'm wrong all i can suggest is we bombard them with complaints as a community asking about where cult troop are for Emperor's children and world eaters until they FAQ it because quite frankly i don't appreciate being forced to use cultists or chaos space marines as troops considering neither fulfill the same role as noise marines. (In addition we should be asking why those two cult legions can take inappropriate marks)

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

I thought it was pretty clear until a GW game designer said you can't take them as troops anymore, the likely hood is that GW tournaments will take his word as gosbel.

Do you have a link for this? Would really apperciate it if you could post it.

It was on the WarhammerTV twitch stream yesterday, they had an interview with the desighner of the two new codeces.

How much cost a new elite unit of rubrics with the new codex?

One unit is 4 Rubric with 1 Aspiring Sorcerer. In point cost list there is no entry for Aspiring Sorcerer, but it say for Rubric 5-20 for 18 each.

So is it
a) 5 * 18 for one unit of 4 Rubric and 1 Aspiring Sorcerer
b) 4 * 18 + 30 for 1 Aspiring Sorcerer from Index
c) 5 * 18 (cuz it says in codex 5-20) + 30 for 1 Aspiring Sorcerer from index

For the discussion about troop and elite choices for cult units, there are pros and cons against it... only GW can help us here. I guess it lacks some extra datasheets for cult units then.

I don't get the problem with the troops Rubrics.

Rubrics being troops in TS detachments is NOT a rule in the Rubrics dataslate, but it is a rule of TS detachments.

There is nothing in the codex that overwrites the rules for TS detachments.

I think the problem is, that these detachments does not exist anymore?

Again, this is the best explanation I've read yet, from their community page:

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1879897585664205&id=1575682476085719&comment_id=1879932672327363&reply_comment_id=1879955342325096¬if_t=feed_comment¬if_id=1502484325578213

So wait, Thousand Sons doesn't even get the updated Dark Hereticus discipline or any of the other non-legion-specific stuff? Guess I'm playing a Renegade Chapter until the codex comes out...

Arachnofiend wrote:
So wait, Thousand Sons doesn't even get the updated Dark Hereticus discipline or any of the other non-legion-specific stuff? Guess I'm playing a Renegade Chapter until the codex comes out...

Correct, they are no more "Chaos Space Marines" than Space Wolves are "Space Marines"

They share some units but are completely different armies.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
If any one God/legion got the shaft, I'd say it's probably Nurgle. Their units are tough but their offensive power seems pretty gakky.

I've been playing this nurgle list for NOVA style events lately.
I've been willing more games than losing at tourneys. It has weaknesses (mostly because it can't earn butchers bill consistently, and the only guaranteed secondary to get is 'heart of the matter') but it's a solid list.

Nurgle is in a good spot right now.

I'm a bit late to the party, but what's the list?

Are Autocannons worth taking on Havocs at all? I ask because my only squad of Havocs has 3x Autocannon and 1 Lascannon.

jcd386 wrote:

Arachnofiend wrote:
So wait, Thousand Sons doesn't even get the updated Dark Hereticus discipline or any of the other non-legion-specific stuff? Guess I'm playing a Renegade Chapter until the codex comes out...

Correct, they are no more "Chaos Space Marines" than Space Wolves are "Space Marines"

They share some units but are completely different armies.

Pretty sure according to that same warhammer TV episode on twitch that said no more cult troops. Also said that thousand sons could use the updated heretics discipline from codex chaos space marines.

Am I reading it right that despite being in the CSM codex, the demon infantry disqualify a detachment for Legion traits?