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Niiru wrote:
Im considering adding a 'centerpiece' unit to a chaos army, and was wondering which of the following hellforged units are worth taking, or the best value on the table?

Land Raider Achilles
Land Raider Prometheues

Fire Raptor
Storm Eagle

IMO, pick one of the flyers. They offer so much more than any LR variant. If you're looking for an excellent transport with some real good shooting, take the storm eagle. If you just want a ton of dakka, take the fire raptor. Avenger bolt cannon, quad HB turrets, and TL lascannons on the wings can usually take out an entire unit a turn. As mentioned above, both can get up to -2 hit, so your opponent will have a very tough time taking them down.

If only we could find another source of -1 to hit, then we could really go ham.

Maybe deathguard will function best with Alpha legion because of forward operatives. Just use that to put a few squads of Plague marines within 9.1 inches before the start of battle. So you save points from having to bring all those Rhinos, and you take at most one turn of shooting before you are engaged. And if deathguard can't even take one round of shooting, then they really have no business being deathguard. lol

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Maybe deathguard will function best with Alpha legion because of forward operatives. Just use that to put a few squads of Plague marines within 9.1 inches before the start of battle. So you save points from having to bring all those Rhinos, and you take at most one turn of shooting before you are engaged. And if deathguard can't even take one round of shooting, then they really have no business being deathguard. lol

If they're Death Guard, they can't also be Alpha Legion. And if they're Alpha Legion, they can't be Death Guard.

No Forward Operatives for the pox-ridden horde I'm afraid.

zzz... well Alpha legion can take plague marines as elite choices. But yeah, then they won't be death guard anymore. :(

Let's see how good the DG terminators are. Maybe they will be so good people will run a mostly DG terminator army.

 mrhappyface wrote:
If only we could find another source of -1 to hit, then we could really go ham.

And this is why Alpha Legion trait does not affect Flyers.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
zzz... well Alpha legion can take plague marines as elite choices. But yeah, then they won't be death guard anymore. :(

Let's see how good the DG terminators are. Maybe they will be so good people will run a mostly DG terminator army.

Oh they will be good. Good aka 5T and FNP and you will have to pay 60 points for each naked because "50% DG points tax ".
No doubt they will be resilient, but once again you will be able field 3 normal chaos terminators for 2 DG. So entire resilience benefit will be as always outshined by raw amount of bodies and superior firepower they bring. So losing in all aspects including resilience.

But a bit less pesimistic approach : They should be 5T FNP like plague marines and also in cataphractii armor as far as fluff goes. That is some nasty tankiness. But then again not worth 50% tax ;x.

Ok was looking at cost and naked Chaos Terminator is 31 ppm and Scarab Occult is 33 ppm. I think fair approach would be ~~37ppm since actually TS termies All is Dust ain't as potent on termies like it is on Rubricae Marines. And T5 and FNP basically gives drastic increase of protection against overheated plasma. You will be wounded on 3+ instead of 2+ , need to pass at least 1 FNP test to survive on top of probably cataphractii armor providing 4+ invu (not sure about that one). But that is fair since they won't have access to inferno combi bolters, will be inferior in movement with advance halved.

mario88826 wrote:
Wish listing.

Can we get back on track to tactics discussion, please?

Lets talk about DG and what they can do when the DG codex is out and we have all the information.

Actually just to get back to talking about tactics. I wonder if anyone has the models to try out a mostly terminator world eaters army.

Just hear me out. The +1 attack on charge which is the world eaters legion trait works best on high power CC models like terminators.

One squad of terminators by themselves is probably just fodder for plasma guns. But what if you went for threat overload and filled as much of your army with terminators as you could?

And it doesn't have to be the expensive combi plama type of terminators. Just take the normal combi bolter ones. a combi bolter still shoots 4 shots at 12 inches and that is very very decent.

A squad of 5 with full power axes and combi bolters is just 190 points. A full squad of 10 is 380 points. So, you can have 40 terminators for 1520 points. 40 terminators can put out 160 combi bolters shots. That's enough to wipe out most bubble wrap fodder. With the WE legion trait, each squad of 5 will do 16 power weapon attacks on the charge, which is again very good.

And 40 terminators = 80 wounds with 2+ save and 5++ Even if you were facing a heavy gunline, I don't think it can kill off 80 terminators within one round.

And with power axes making it str 5 attacks with -2 ap, you can just activate veterans of the long war and you will be able to wound T7 or T8 vehicles on a 4+. It may not be super mobile, since once you deep strike into a sector, you are more or less commmitted. But mobility is less of a thing this edition I feel. And you can probably spread out 40 terminators enough such that you can form a cordon that would be difficult to break through.

So, anyone with 30 or more terminators tried this out with World eaters?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's an example of such a list. I just went full bore terminators, didn't really try and optimise.

World eaters termi army - 2000 points

2 terminator lords with power fists and combi bolters

3 squads of 10 cultists

3 units of 1 spawn each.

4 squads of 10 combi bolter terminators, champion has power fist, icon of wrath, mixed power weapons (mauls, swords and axes).

Total : 2000 points. 75 models. 160 shots from the terminators, and 56 power attacks on the charge (of which 16 are power fist attacks). (plus another 10 power fist attacks from the two terminator lords).

So, if I go first, I drop 42 terminator bodies at 9.1 inches and all attempt to charge with rerolls after firing over 160 shots. Then turn two onwards I just tighten the noose and continue to attempt to shoot and then charge whatever isn't already in combat. If opponent goes first, he has nothing of value to shoot at. 3 cultist squads and 3 spawns. lol Then my turn same thing again.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Actually just to get back to talking about tactics. I wonder if anyone has the models to try out a mostly terminator world eaters army.

Just hear me out. The +1 attack on charge which is the world eaters legion trait works best on high power CC models like terminators.

One squad of terminators by themselves is probably just fodder for plasma guns. But what if you went for threat overload and filled as much of your army with terminators as you could?

And it doesn't have to be the expensive combi plama type of terminators. Just take the normal combi bolter ones. a combi bolter still shoots 4 shots at 12 inches and that is very very decent.

A squad of 5 with full power axes and combi bolters is just 190 points. A full squad of 10 is 380 points. So, you can have 40 terminators for 1520 points. 40 terminators can put out 160 combi bolters shots. That's enough to wipe out most bubble wrap fodder. With the WE legion trait, each squad of 5 will do 16 power weapon attacks on the charge, which is again very good.

And 40 terminators = 80 wounds with 2+ save and 5++ Even if you were facing a heavy gunline, I don't think it can kill off 80 terminators within one round.

And with power axes making it str 5 attacks with -2 ap, you can just activate veterans of the long war and you will be able to wound T7 or T8 vehicles on a 4+. It may not be super mobile, since once you deep strike into a sector, you are more or less commmitted. But mobility is less of a thing this edition I feel. And you can probably spread out 40 terminators enough such that you can form a cordon that would be difficult to break through.

So, anyone with 30 or more terminators tried this out with World eaters?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's an example of such a list. I just went full bore terminators, didn't really try and optimise.

World eaters termi army - 2000 points

2 terminator lords with power fists and combi bolters

3 squads of 10 cultists

3 units of 1 spawn each.

4 squads of 10 combi bolter terminators, champion has power fist, icon of wrath, mixed power weapons (mauls, swords and axes).

Total : 2000 points. 75 models. 160 shots from the terminators, and 56 power attacks on the charge (of which 16 are power fist attacks). (plus another 10 power fist attacks from the two terminator lords).

So, if I go first, I drop 42 terminator bodies at 9.1 inches and all attempt to charge with rerolls after firing over 160 shots. Then turn two onwards I just tighten the noose and continue to attempt to shoot and then charge whatever isn't already in combat. If opponent goes first, he has nothing of value to shoot at. 3 cultist squads and 3 spawns. lol Then my turn same thing again.

Honestly if you want to spam terminators so badly - I would go with Thousand sons - sure they don't have access to plasma, neither to any power weapon except for swords.
BUT : Even simple non heavy weapon scarab occult terminator is very deadly model - as you mentioned if each storm bolter shoots 4 times at 12" that is cool, but what is better is 4 times with AP-2.
Basically without paying crapton of points for plasma on chaos terminators - you get weapons that when combined with veterans of long war can even melt heavy stuff.
On top of that they don't need lord to babysit them with rerolling 1's so they won't die from overcharing plasma. And there is more : you can chaos familiar stratagem warp time them and get almost guaranteed charge - so even in this aspect they beat Khorne dudes - just having 3 times higher chance to pull of charge ! Where other terminators need massive point investment of Sorcerer with terminator armor.

Of course downside is that this can only be taken Thousand sons not World eaters.

But still scarab occult Terminators are excelent for points value. You can also take squad of 10 and cast weaver of fates on them to make sure they don't go down easily.

Well, each has its pros and cons. I just wanted to make World Eaters work. Icon of wrath means that all the squads can charge with rerolls. Warptime can only be cast on one squad. But yes, thousand sons terminators are an option too.

Problem with that is you can be zoned out of juicy targets with wrap, and you will surely delete the wrap on the drop. What follows is a bunch of smites and return fire which should decimate the termies.

 Lord Commissar wrote:
Problem with that is you can be zoned out of juicy targets with wrap, and you will surely delete the wrap on the drop. What follows is a bunch of smites and return fire which should decimate the termies.

And this is very reason why TS Scarabs are so good , even if your target is wrapped , unit with massive firepower like they are with warp time can effectively rapid fire up to 17". Enough to shoot something valuable like hellblasters, deal solid damage. Then just charge wrap.

This is good in my eyes as they have this huge benefit that they don't need sorcerer to come with them or lord. And so even if they go down eventually - they usually do more damage than typical termie thanks to rapid firing inferno combi bolters.

Because let's be honest charge after deep strike is 27%, around ~~47% with reroll right ? So still unreliable. But then again that is not problem for Scarabs as they can warp time. And even if they don't - staggering firepower they dish out for mere 3 points per inferno combi bolter - makes sure they will deal some damage even if charge fails. And let's not forget that if someone tries to deal with scarabs then they don't shoot Magnus closing in . So they may aswell be forced to ignore scarabs and take on bigger threat.

As always most important tactic is to either deny your opponent any nice targets for his charges/shooting or give him so many viable that some will get through unharmed.

mario88826 wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
mario, you keep saying you are going to reserve judgement until the codex drops. But there is so much judgement in what you are laying out...

Something to consider. In 8th edition, models drop off the board much faster than in previous editions. What makes Death Guard special is that they are not going to do that, at least not as fast. From what we know about the new Codex, the point seems to be that DG just don't die easily.

Not sure what you were expecting, but this seems to be an attrition army. It's totally fine to say you don't like such a thing, but I don't see where the rules are all that bad considering the nature of the force. The stratagems are no better or worse than what other armies have, same with the special rules.

Ok indeed i post a bit too much of recent. But my point is they are not that resilent at all. And you have to pay VERY HEAVILY for extra resilence. When others just can field more bodies instead ... Who happen to be doing more damage aswell.

Good example what i'm saying is plague marine - 19 points (used to be 21 points ...) - improved resilience but that guy is still just 1 swing in CC, and simple bolter. Fact is you can just get 3 CSM Marines for your 2 plague Marines. It will be equally hard to kill them and they just do 50% more damage plain and simple. Idk how is that fair, also it helps to fill troop tax much easier aswell. This gets even more dire when you compare them to primaris marines who cost same per model but get 2 wounds , MUCH better gun and twice as many attacks ... 2 wounds beat 1 wound even with T5 and FNP. Last but not least all those mentioned marines have movement of 6 compared to Plague Marines 5 - rendering them as assault unit aswell unless with expensive transport.

And here I can pass final judgement as plague marines full value and stats were updated in recent CSM codex.

So to wrap it up : yeah DG units are more resilient but at same time way more expensive so in fact it's as easy to table them as anyone else- as example with plague marine vs csm marine proves. At same time they don't pack punch at all. This is why i'm concerned.
So idk what war attrition means if you don't have anything going for you.

To show you what balanced and solid cult marine looks and it's priced as it should be is Rubricae Marine :
1. Very resilient against 1 damage attacks - and those usually are aimed at your troops, when bigger guns go for Magnus/Vehicles/Other heavy stuff.
2. Even against bigger guns they still hold on 5+ invu when such plague marine is striped to no armor against helblaster shoot.
3. And most importantly along extra resilience they also hit like a truck with -2 AP bolters.

For DG units we get random +1T and FNP and suddenly price goes up 50% out of nowhere. So yeah sounds like gak :(.

You have to understand we are waiting for codex from people who put original prices in mini book for DG like that: Bloat drone - 206 (my God ...) , LoC 184 (hohoho) , plague marines - 21 points ( yep no mistake 8 points more than normal CSM for what ?). So yeah i have my faith shattered as for now.
Can you really trust when someone charges you for FNP 50% or more compared to equivalents without ? I don't :(.

I don't think I understand your comparisons here. By my math, a plague marine is tougher than a rubric marine. Against a bolter hit for example, 1/3 to wound, 1/3 to fail armor, and 2/3 to fail FNP. Rubric is 1/2 to wound, 1/6 fail save. Pop the plague marine in cover though and he gets a huge durability increase while the rubric marine can't do anything to increase his save further.

For higher power weapons like las cannons, it doesn't completely ignore your armor. In fact, if you pop into cover with the plague marine you'll have the same 5+ save the rubric marine gets while also having the 5+ FNP and be wounded on a 3+ instead of a 2+.

For warlord trait comparison, yes the +1 wound and 6+ FNP is probably better for smaller characters like lords and sorcerers, but the more wounds you have the better the 4+ FNP becomes. On Mortarian or a Daemon Prince, for example, the 4+ FNP will be more powerful.

Even the strategem to make units untargetable unless they're the closest can dramatically reduce damage taken if it forces opponents out of rapid fire range. It will also be amazing while working on missions like the relic or anything else objective based where the unit becomes incredibly hard to displace.

@ kessthanjeff

Well sorry mate, but I disagree. Rubric Marines tend to be extremely durable against very popular weapons like ASS-cannons , bolters or even non overheated-plasma.

Simple comparison against very popular in this meta assault cannon - both will be wounded on 3+ , but Rubric will remain 2+ in cover and 3+ outside of cover - when plague Marines will have 3+ and 4+ respectively. Sure there is FNP. But I would call that far from being more durable especially in cover Rubric Marines shine big time. And damn assault cannons are one of dominant in this meta weapons who like to aim infantry !

Against multi wound weapons both cult marines have serious problems as chain rolling 5+ is already pretty hard even against D2 weapons it's 1 out of 9... Rubric lose thier extra armor there, but very often when you are outside of cover - or enemy can ignore cover they at least can hide behind invu save to bounce of multi melta/ hellblaster or lascannon. And what about plague marine ? Can you really Pass 6 times FNP for example ?

So it's situational really but against tons of stuff Rubrics hold better or equally than Plague Marines - and at same time and same cost they dish SUBSTANTIALLY more firepower - inferno bolters are threat to anything but T8 targets, and even those you can damage with Veteran stratagem.
While Plague Marines who don't hold some xpensive special weapon simply cannot hurt anything - against other marines thier pathethic S4 no AP bolters basically bounce off.

Good example is to simply put rubric in front of plague marine and let them fight - i bet my money on rubric dude. GL getting through 2+ WITHOUT even need to be in cover. While despite T5 and FNP you get save of 5+ or 4+ if you sit in cover ...

And stop being so optimistic in your bolter comparison - more and more bolters are replaced by autobolt rifles - so Rubric in cover is still 2+ when your Plague Marine let TWICE as many hits gets through - same against popular ASS-Cannons.

You need a DS -3 weapon to make the 5++ of Rubrics count. Everything less means the Plague marines will have the same safe + their DR afterwards + increased T reducing the amount of wounds. Rubrics don't beat them on resilience. "Tons of stuff" is probably only the Assault cannon, reaper Autocannon and Scatterlasers - weapons with high strength but 1 damage.
Also you can have 3plasma guns on 5 PMs, making them 21points more expensive than 5 rubrics. Or take two blight launchers for 23 points, which are better than inferno bolters in every way (4 inferno shots on 12-24" vs 4 BL shots + 2 Bolters + 1Plasma, maximum damage: 4 vs. 11 on average). Rubrics aren't bad (their sorcerer is of course better than the plague champion), but neither are ranged plague marines.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Maybe someone could clarify something for me... but can Hellforged (Forgeworld) Dreads gain Chapter Tactics? I know they added the Hellbrute Keyword in one FAQ, but a very capable tournament player I know says that GW elsewhere said they could not.

I think some people, possibly the Judge are confusing when something is a Keyword and when it isn't. This one in particular is important when you're talking about Legion Tactics and the Fire Frenzy Strategim. Legion Tactics affect all HELBRUTES. You know it is talking about the keyword "HELBRUTES" because it is Bolded, specifically mentions it being a keyword, or both. So Legion Tactics affect FW dreads, because they were given that keyword. The Fire Frenzy Strategim affects "Helbrutes". Not bolded, no mention of keywords. Fire Frenzy only affects the unit entry "Helbrute", so not any of the FW dreads.

I mention this to clarify. You mentioned FB and I've seen this specific issue on FB many, many times.

So, I know when the codex came out one thing people were raving over was combi plasma terminators with the double firing stratagem. However, in the horde heavy meta I've found myself using a 10 man squad of combi flamer terminators, with a sorcerer to warp time them in range.

Double firing 10 flamers and boltguns is fairly brutal. 70 flamer hits and 20 bolter hits on average. I use power fists on them to make sure the enemy worries about them getting through their expandable chaff into the juicy protected bits.

Lightning claw khorne+WE terminators can do a similar job, but I find they don't threaten tanks quite as well.

Add in DTTFE for +1 to wound..

Problem with flamers is if warptime fluffs you're not shooting them

I had a couple chaos questions.

If I am playing Berserkers does their target also get to fight again or just them? In the additional fight phase?

If I want to play a CC heavy army like Khorne how can I also run sorcerors?

Jaynen wrote:
I had a couple chaos questions.

If I am playing Berserkers does their target also get to fight again or just them? In the additional fight phase?

If I want to play a CC heavy army like Khorne how can I also run sorcerors?

Only the Berzerkers get to fight twice, not their target. As for Sorcerers, run them in a separate detachment. I'm going to be playing in a tournament on Saturday with both a WE detachment and an AL detachment (which includes Sorcerers and a Slaanesh DP). Berzerkers + Warptime = Profit!

Sorry if this has come up already, but on a 20 chaos marine squad, what 2 heavy or special weapons would you bring?
I plan on playing as Black Legion, but I'm not sure their legion trait should be a factor for picking what special/heavy weapon to bring, as I'm not quite sure if the blob will be doing that much moving around? (I haven't played Csm that much).

So, as someone currently playing a WE / Khorne Daemon army, and always looking to try new tactics and units, what's the concensus on running a landraider with 3x Mutilators along with a chaos lord or other 1x capacity IC? I know mutilators are currently living in the dark, dark shadows of their ranged brethren, the Obliterators, Mutilators would take great advantage of the WE legion perk for +1 Attack on the charge.

The current drawback for Mutilators, from what I've read, is that they're so damn slow. The land raider would rectify this, at least up until the point where they disembark (they could eventually get back in though right?). Also, I just checked and they cannot take an Icon of Wrath it appears, so no +1" to charges and advances. But they are daemon keyword, so lets keep a herald or DP nearby for the Unstoppable Ferocity bonus. They also benefit from the WE legion trait so that's +1 attack on the charge. There is a bit of a price tag on this at 506 pts base and I would only consider it if I was already planning on taking a LR and was simply looking for a unit to fill it with.

When the Mutilators disembark, you're looking at a variable charge range and since they have no icon I believe it would be wise to try to get them to at least 8" or 9" if you're feeling brave. When they make it in and with Unstoppable Ferocity, you'll be looking at 15 attacks on top of the D3 values from the STR, AP and DMG rolls. Keep a lord nearby so you're rerolling those ones, or an Exalted Champ for wound reroll's. Playing against an Imperium foe? Look to add some extra attacks on with DttFE. So that's STR 5+D3(+1) and while it's not extremely devastating, it will definitely do some damage. Now perhaps you got some particularly good rolls on your stats, throw in the VofLW or Fury of Khorne stratagems and they'll be frolicking in giblets I'd think.

This of course is all in theory. With 3 wounds, a 2+ save and 5++ daemon save, and potentially a Land Raider in the near vicinity, they could be tough to remove. Any thoughts on this? Potential drawbacks or other viable tactics?

Honestly, if you are going WE, I'd just deepstrike them with a khorne chaos icon and hope the charge goes off. Your enemy can keep kite them, but having to move a ton of your army, often with heavy weapons, every turn is going to mess things up. It's also 10 points for a 50/50 shot at a turn one charge vs 300ish points for probably a turn two charge, and the land raider isn't offering enough firepower to make up for the other 250 points being spent.

eternalxfl wrote:
So, as someone currently playing a WE / Khorne Daemon army, and always looking to try new tactics and units, what's the concensus on running a landraider with 3x Mutilators along with a chaos lord or other 1x capacity IC? I know mutilators are currently living in the dark, dark shadows of their ranged brethren, the Obliterators, Mutilators would take great advantage of the WE legion perk for +1 Attack on the charge.

The current drawback for Mutilators, from what I've read, is that they're so damn slow. The land raider would rectify this, at least up until the point where they disembark (they could eventually get back in though right?). Also, I just checked and they cannot take an Icon of Wrath it appears, so no +1" to charges and advances. But they are daemon keyword, so lets keep a herald or DP nearby for the Unstoppable Ferocity bonus. They also benefit from the WE legion trait so that's +1 attack on the charge. There is a bit of a price tag on this at 506 pts base and I would only consider it if I was already planning on taking a LR and was simply looking for a unit to fill it with.

When the Mutilators disembark, you're looking at a variable charge range and since they have no icon I believe it would be wise to try to get them to at least 8" or 9" if you're feeling brave. When they make it in and with Unstoppable Ferocity, you'll be looking at 15 attacks on top of the D3 values from the STR, AP and DMG rolls. Keep a lord nearby so you're rerolling those ones, or an Exalted Champ for wound reroll's. Playing against an Imperium foe? Look to add some extra attacks on with DttFE. So that's STR 5+D3(+1) and while it's not extremely devastating, it will definitely do some damage. Now perhaps you got some particularly good rolls on your stats, throw in the VofLW or Fury of Khorne stratagems and they'll be frolicking in giblets I'd think.

This of course is all in theory. With 3 wounds, a 2+ save and 5++ daemon save, and potentially a Land Raider in the near vicinity, they could be tough to remove. Any thoughts on this? Potential drawbacks or other viable tactics?

Icon of Wrath re-rolls charge ranges, not adds +1".
They do not benefit from unstoppable ferocity because they don't have that special rule and the rule itself isn't an aura affect (you might be thinking of Herald of Khorne which is +1S within 6").
If you are looking to get into 8/9" range then why not just deep strike them? Why wait 1/2 turns to get into melee?

As it is, mutilators are completely out shone by Terminators who have access to better CQC weapons and ranged weapons as well as being more consistent in their attacks and having access to icons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SilverAlien wrote:
Honestly, if you are going WE, I'd just deepstrike them with a khorne chaos icon and hope the charge goes off. Your enemy can keep kite them, but having to move a ton of your army, often with heavy weapons, every turn is going to mess things up. It's also 10 points for a 50/50 shot at a turn one charge vs 300ish points for probably a turn two charge, and the land raider isn't offering enough firepower to make up for the other 250 points being spent.

They don't have access to the icon.

Oh. Well. I mean, in that case... maybe you could try the land raider? Honestly I think that unit might just need to sit on the shelf for a bit.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Icon of Wrath re-rolls charge ranges, not adds +1".
They do not benefit from unstoppable ferocity because they don't have that special rule and the rule itself isn't an aura affect (you might be thinking of Herald of Khorne which is +1S within 6").
If you are looking to get into 8/9" range then why not just deep strike them? Why wait 1/2 turns to get into melee?
As it is, mutilators are completely out shone by Terminators who have access to better CQC weapons and ranged weapons as well as being more consistent in their attacks and having access to icons.

Hmm, yea I had unstoppable ferocity mistaken for the simple +1S aura from the HoK.
Yea, I guess in hindsight now it's either deepstrike or keep em on the shelf. Deepstrike wouldn't be so bad if their movement wasn't so poor. You bring them in, they swing their load and that's practically it for them.
I do like the option of running Obliterators, I just feel like I'm neglecting the WE legion trait with them. Perhaps I should ignore that fact since their ranged firepower can be so strong.

The literal only benefits to Mutilators is they don't die to Overcharged Plasma at the same rate and have a lower point investment.

Really the profiles for Obliterators and Mutilators just need to be combined.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

eternalxfl wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

Icon of Wrath re-rolls charge ranges, not adds +1".
They do not benefit from unstoppable ferocity because they don't have that special rule and the rule itself isn't an aura affect (you might be thinking of Herald of Khorne which is +1S within 6").
If you are looking to get into 8/9" range then why not just deep strike them? Why wait 1/2 turns to get into melee?
As it is, mutilators are completely out shone by Terminators who have access to better CQC weapons and ranged weapons as well as being more consistent in their attacks and having access to icons.

Hmm, yea I had unstoppable ferocity mistaken for the simple +1S aura from the HoK.
Yea, I guess in hindsight now it's either deepstrike or keep em on the shelf. Deepstrike wouldn't be so bad if their movement wasn't so poor. You bring them in, they swing their load and that's practically it for them.
I do like the option of running Obliterators, I just feel like I'm neglecting the WE legion trait with them. Perhaps I should ignore that fact since their ranged firepower can be so strong.

Don't think like that. Remember: Obliterators hit units hard with their guns but they might not kill them. Charging after firing is a legit thing to do.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The literal only benefits to Mutilators is they don't die to Overcharged Plasma at the same rate and have a lower point investment.

Really the profiles for Obliterators and Mutilators just need to be combined.

For a second there, I thought you were saying their only benefit was that they don't die so easy to overcharged plasma because they can't take a plasma gun and kill themselves with it... Which I guess does make them less likely to die to overcharged plasma...

If you really want to run a Land Raider just to transport something killy, probably the better thing to use would be two squads of world eaters Berserkers with champs using power fists. Now, just from the two champs, you have 4 attacks on the charge each, and they fight twice, so thats 8 attacks. Two champs = 16 power fist attacks already. And we are not even counting the boatload of chainaxe and chainsword attacks from the rest of the 8 normal berserkers.

The article on DG legion traits and psychic powers are out! I am sad, my army is painted black legion, but the DG legion traits are better in every way. zzzz Pretty good for DG though. Rapid fire plasma guns at 18 inches is a thing with DG armies. That's a pretty long range. If not running Motarion, I am thinking Typhus with two large squads of pox walkers for bubble wrap, marching forward infront. Followed behind by MSU squads of plague marines with either 3 plasma guns each (champ can take plasma gun too), or 1 plasma gun and 2 blight launchers. And maybe a Daemon prince to give rerolls to 1 if you absolutely need to overcharge your plasma. lol

If they have DG terminators who can take plasma guns or combi plasmas... its going to be brutal lol. Imagine a squad of 10 deep striking in and then unleashing 20 plasma shots at 18 inches. The bubblewrap will have to be really far away from the juicy units in order to prevent them from double tapping! lol

BTW, the article mentions that there will be new DG daemon engines, and these get DR! Wonder what these will be.