Thebiggesthat wrote:


We know for a fact that a Death Guard book is coming. probably in the very near future with Morty and Typhus.

Thebiggesthat wrote:

Dovis wrote:




1) Summoning - gone, there is literally no situation where it's worth risking mortal wounds to summon, when you can just pay the point price to take the units outright (since you do have to pay the points any way), so there's one game mechanic out the window, why did they even keep that mockery aside from rubbing it in our faces is beyond me

Wrong. You now get a system that isn't broken. You have 300 points for example. You either buy a unit with them, or you have the flexibility to summon a specific unit you need right at the time you need it. It's the ultimate toolbox. Works well in AoS. Try playing some games before writing off a mechanic.

2) Magic, by all the Chaos Gods, magic in 8 ed sucks, sure, not only Chaos suffered from this, but If I was collecting Tzeench or bought any of the Thousand sons which were introduced just recently I'd be pissed, they release an army focused on magic and the nerf magic into unusable level, there is literally no point in using any magic whatsoever:

you have a 1/9 chance of perils now, which do D3 wounds and to a flimsy sorcerer that's a lot, not to mention your opponent now has a 50% chance to deny the witch and the spells themselves are very weak, basically you're statistically about as likely to inflict wounds as receive them

So it's like shooting a plasma pistol that kills you on a below 4

Thousand Sons will get a codex, that will give them bonuses. If you are seriously suggesting that the rules you have on release day are as good as it gets for Tzeench, you are in for a suprise.


3) Chaos Marks - absolutely meaningless, like you add a keyword, so, yeah, cool, now my cultist is a Nurgle cultist, what changes - nothing

This is just the baseline. Wait until the codexs start appearing, and prepare to chow down on these words

4) Fortrifications? Oh they're the same as Imperium, just have worse saves


New Death Guard?

It's way worse than the old Death Guard, cause you can't use half the units, also Nurgle mark means nothing so you don't get the added toughness and you have the same Feel No Pain as before, but now your crappy poxwalkers don't even come back from the dead, cause there's no Artefact for that...


There is not 1 good thing for Chaos in this edition

Writing off an entire faction on release day is so short sighted and reactionary it barely deserves a reply. You have a release which is essentially a framework that allows all models that are currently sold to be used. We know for a fact that a Death Guard book is coming. probably in the very near future with Morty and Typhus.

Have a look at AoS. You have great battletomes that really flesh out a force, loads of narrative, unit specific rules and bonuses that fit with the army, cool detachments that thematically deliver bonuses. Don't worry, GW has proven they can do this.

Poly Ranger wrote:
It's not the same baseline infantry. See Grimmor's post above yours. Cultists cannot achieve what Guard can, as they do not have the same equipment or orders. To ensure there is a balanced game, you cannot have units which are objectively better costing less than the other unit. That goes against the concept of balance.

 Rippy wrote:
People are sad that we just got traitor legions, and then took those benefits away 6 months later.
But they will come back when the codices drop.

 Grumzimus wrote:
Hrm..... I have just realised how bland and unflavorful my 40k life will now be with the 8th edition chaos index :(

I had just got my Night Lords army rules I had always wanted....

Gone!!

Like tears in the rain

;(

 Starfarer wrote:

Thebiggesthat wrote:


We know for a fact that a Death Guard book is coming. probably in the very near future with Morty and Typhus.

We do? Where has anything about a Death Guard codex been confirmed? No, you're assuming a codex is coming. For all we know we're just getting a campaign book to give all the new shiny toys for the Primaris, and the Mortarian model and DG terminators will be tacked on there.

Yes, we might get a full codex, but we don't "know that for a fact" because it hasn't been confirmed by anyone. It's pure speculation at this point.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Yea its not like Chaos got KDK, Renegade/chaos knights, Tzeench/Thousand Sons, Traitor Legions, Death Guard...

Clearly nothing

dominuschao wrote:
As an outsider to chaos up until a month ago I share the sentiment. I've DL'd and absorbed every book. The balance seems much better the games much faster. No more gladius or "ATSKNRules" but no more marks or daemon weapons or really any customization of characters either. Overall a push is a win I guess..

The rules scream robin cruddace but I know theres still some real designers over there capable of doing traitor legions for 8th. I just hope it happens quick before I lose interest again lol.

 ChazSexington wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Yea its not like Chaos got KDK, Renegade/chaos knights, Tzeench/Thousand Sons, Traitor Legions, Death Guard...

Clearly nothing

The issue is some of our mains kits are what, 15 years old? Some are probably coming up on 2 decades by now.

Includes, but not limited to:
All HQs bar Khârn and Ahriman are in resin, lacking loads of options. At least Cypher used to come in metal. Abaddon and Fabius are 21 years old. Toy soldiers than legally buy beer in the US.
The basic CSM kit, while not awful, is ancient and doesn't come with all the upgrades. Bizarrely also always in top 10 most sold - we're bloody popular.
Khorne Berserkers and Noise Marines (GW don't even use the former kit to make Khorne Berserkers), in addition to coming with non-matching numbers of upgrades (helmets, guns etc).
Mutilators and Obliterators
Havocs. Jesus, our Havocs.

The problem is the amount of models that need reworking. Just a year ago, we were lacking Plague Marines, Thousand Sons, and all the HQs. It's going in the right direction, but we have so far to go. I would gladly take all these over Magnus any day.

dominuschao wrote:
As an outsider to chaos up until a month ago I share the sentiment. I've DL'd and absorbed every book. The balance seems much better the games much faster. No more gladius or "ATSKNRules" but no more marks or daemon weapons or really any customization of characters either. Overall a push is a win I guess..

The rules scream robin cruddace but I know theres still some real designers over there capable of doing traitor legions for 8th. I just hope it happens quick before I lose interest again lol.

We have TOs to thank for the current balance, I believe. The Pansersex better stay away.

Thebiggesthat wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:

Thebiggesthat wrote:


We know for a fact that a Death Guard book is coming. probably in the very near future with Morty and Typhus.

We do? Where has anything about a Death Guard codex been confirmed? No, you're assuming a codex is coming. For all we know we're just getting a campaign book to give all the new shiny toys for the Primaris, and the Mortarian model and DG terminators will be tacked on there.

Yes, we might get a full codex, but we don't "know that for a fact" because it hasn't been confirmed by anyone. It's pure speculation at this point.

Ok fine. As a Death Guard player, I'll give 100 quid to a charity of your choice if we don't get a Codex with more Deathguard rules.

If it does, you can do the same?

 WrentheFaceless wrote:


See though, you guys are getting things

Think of sisters, forever waiting for plastic; as much as I hate admitting it, a lot of eldar models are even older than chaos stuff, Ork stuff is also out of date as well as other factions

Chaos being the big bad is getting a plethora of new and updated models, and this is why people are mocking chaos players for whining about 'never getting anything'

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Summoning is more flexible in that any Chaos Character can Summon, not just Psykers. Also, you don't have to specify what you are summoning till after you roll. Roll high, bring something heavy hitting or a big unit of 20, roll low bring in a herald or 10 lesser daemons.

I wouldn't put more than 1-2 units in for summoning anyways.

It also can't be denied.

SilverAlien wrote:
Again, they had those rules for a few years. We got to play with ours for six months. We hope we get all that back soon, but we are aware we will likely take a back seat. DG will get early support, but after that expect chaos to have a decent wait time to get anything like legion rules back.

We might get the cults updated soon, but even that isn't a given (emperor's children and world eaters look like they aren't expecting new units for example). Thousand sons might get an update, as the alck of a unique psychic discipline seems galling, but more likely they will get a modified version of tzeentch in a FAQ, maybe chapter approved.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Clearly, the solution is, then, to say "Well, sucks to suck, guess we never get special rules unless we're Space Marines."

Or, you know, maybe GW should give EVERYONE cool and special rules.

 Galas wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
The protagonists of Warhammer 40k are Space Marines. Thats a fact. The rest of the Imperium are here just to be addons to the Space Marines narrative, and complete races like Tyranids and Orks are just here to be the NPC race for the Space Marines.
Is just being realistic.

Truth.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
It's not the same baseline infantry. See Grimmor's post above yours. Cultists cannot achieve what Guard can, as they do not have the same equipment or orders. To ensure there is a balanced game, you cannot have units which are objectively better costing less than the other unit. That goes against the concept of balance.

If you bothered reading my entire post you'd know that I was taking hypothetically. If the Cultists were either made to be identical to Guardsmen OR balanced against the Guardsmen, it'd instead cause an inbalance in the rules overall. Looking at a single unit in a complete vacuum without consideration of the larger faction as a whole is a fallacy a lot of people have on this forum. One of the things with Guard is that they don't have all-rounder elite infantry like Space Marines; the closest are Scions which are really expensive for what they bring to the field and not all that flexible (try putting one in fisticuffs with a space marine and see how that turns out).

It sucks to play more, yes, but looking at another faction and demanding you have the same thing while not looking at what you already have in your faction is silly and selfish. If every faction had every unit balanced against each other, the only possible way it could work out is if every faction was functionally identical (i.e: there would be only one faction) with only minor tweaks.

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Summoning is more flexible in that any Chaos Character can Summon, not just Psykers. Also, you don't have to specify what you are summoning till after you roll. Roll high, bring something heavy hitting or a big unit of 20, roll low bring in a herald or 10 lesser daemons.

I wouldn't put more than 1-2 units in for summoning anyways.

It also can't be denied.

Agreed, I like this, to a degree. Dark Apostles, Daemon Princes, and Sorcerers should definitely be able to summon, more unsure on Chaos Lords and Warpsmiths.

 Galas wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Clearly, the solution is, then, to say "Well, sucks to suck, guess we never get special rules unless we're Space Marines."

Or, you know, maybe GW should give EVERYONE cool and special rules.

I think the problem comes down to how players see themselves.

GW don't stop repeating how "Chaos is the big bad!" so when Chaos are treated equally bad as other non-space marine factions they feel they are more entitled to receive new kits, etc... and when they receive those they aren't enough because they aren't as much as Space Marines!

As a xenos player obviously I'll love for a less Space-Marine centric 40k.

But thats not what 40k is about. The protagonists of Warhammer 40k are Space Marines. Thats a fact. The rest of the Imperium are here just to be addons to the Space Marines narrative, and complete races like Tyranids and Orks are just here to be the NPC race for the Space Marines.

Is just being realistic. I don't go saying that Action Man receives all the atention, and call for more attention and toys for Doctor X. Because thats isn't how that "setting" is constructed.

 Torga_DW wrote:
This right here.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Torga_DW wrote:
This right here.

So in other words:

"You don't play Space Marines, so go feth off and enjoy scraps from the dinner table."

Chaos just happens to be the first to get the scraps-I guess Chaos is the family dog and the rest of the factions are the mice.