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 ClockworkZion wrote:
For the record, if someone doesn't want their viewpoint challenged, they should probably just not post it on the internet...

So underhanded manipulation tactics, trying to bait belittle people with harassment is somehow justified? Right...

 ForceChoke wrote:



No one is playing a victim card. This is the putting words in peoples mouths I was talking about. I was pointing out at the stupidity of trying to turn a subjective opionon into an argument. Enough.. Get over it.

So you don't want to discuss or be exposed to opinions that differ from your own, you just want a venue to express your subjective opinion without any feedback. May I suggest a journal?

The Sister's player is crying at this point.... but then again they are used to it.... Im not crying *sniff*.

 NenkotaMoon wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

usmcmidn wrote:
This shows us that GW will never please everyone lol.

Chaos player: We need new models.
GW: How about these cool new demons?
Chaos player: No we meant Marines.
GW: okay, what about these very detailed plague guys?
Chaos player: No looks to silly.
GW: ... sigh... Blight drone?
Chaos player: No no one wants that.
GW: Screw it I'm making a sweet looking Repulser Tank.
Space Marine Player: Ew we need more fluffy models.
Sisters player: FFS !!!

Funny thing is that I love the new Death Guard models (especailly the Bloat Drone) but since I'm not running Death Guard I am declining to oick them up for the moment.

And in the end, the real victim is the SoB player.

I don't know of any Sisters players who have real expectations of plastics being a thing anytime soon at this point, myself included.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 NenkotaMoon wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

usmcmidn wrote:
This shows us that GW will never please everyone lol.

Chaos player: We need new models.
GW: How about these cool new demons?
Chaos player: No we meant Marines.
GW: okay, what about these very detailed plague guys?
Chaos player: No looks to silly.
GW: ... sigh... Blight drone?
Chaos player: No no one wants that.
GW: Screw it I'm making a sweet looking Repulser Tank.
Space Marine Player: Ew we need more fluffy models.
Sisters player: FFS !!!

Funny thing is that I love the new Death Guard models (especailly the Bloat Drone) but since I'm not running Death Guard I am declining to oick them up for the moment.

And in the end, the real victim is the SoB player.

I don't know of any Sisters players who have real expectations of plastics being a thing anytime soon at this point, myself included.

Ye of little faith, heretic.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
There's nothing about this that should make you stop enjoying the game any more than I should stop enjoying the game because of how dull and uninteresting chaos space marines are, or how GW keeps trying to force 30k bullgak in to 40k, or how gw keeps trying to make new marines that are marinier than your marines and the mariniest marines that ever marined your marine in the marine with their marines. Or how every damned new thing is so damned marine-focused.

I think she doesn't like marines.

Let's be fair- this is a very common complaint from the about half of 40k players who don't play Space Marines.

I mean, I played IG, 'nids and Chaos Marines at a store for a while- and when I started a Salamanders, there were folks who were treating me like I was turning to the 'dark side.'

 ForceChoke wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
For the record, if someone doesn't want their viewpoint challenged, they should probably just not post it on the internet...

So underhanded manipulation tactics, trying to bait belittle people with harassment is somehow justified? Right...

You're the one who is upset that people are disagreeing with you and posting that they disagree with you. I was just pointing out that if you want an echo chamber of people who only agree with you, a public forum is likely the worst place for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NenkotaMoon wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 NenkotaMoon wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

usmcmidn wrote:
This shows us that GW will never please everyone lol.

Chaos player: We need new models.
GW: How about these cool new demons?
Chaos player: No we meant Marines.
GW: okay, what about these very detailed plague guys?
Chaos player: No looks to silly.
GW: ... sigh... Blight drone?
Chaos player: No no one wants that.
GW: Screw it I'm making a sweet looking Repulser Tank.
Space Marine Player: Ew we need more fluffy models.
Sisters player: FFS !!!

Funny thing is that I love the new Death Guard models (especailly the Bloat Drone) but since I'm not running Death Guard I am declining to oick them up for the moment.

And in the end, the real victim is the SoB player.

I don't know of any Sisters players who have real expectations of plastics being a thing anytime soon at this point, myself included.

Ye of little faith, heretic.

I have faith, but no hope. Hope leads to damnation (and weird Tzeentchy tentacles).

TL/DR, so I'll keep this fairly short.

Artwork. Subjective. Some consider Tracey Emin's bed to be actual art. I beg to differ. Neither party is Correct.

Gameplay. A game being made easier and thus quicker to play doesn't equate to be it being dumbed down, not is it a sign that it's solely for the youth. Consider my situation. As I type this, I'm on my coach home from work in London. It's now 17:12. If I, lucky, I'll be home around 18:30 with enough time to nip to the Post Office. That's my life Monday to Friday. Up at stupid o'clock, commute to work, do work, leave office around 4:30, commute home for around 18:30. Then there's dinner to think about, other irritating auditing to do. I barely played 6th and 7th Edition because I just never had the time.

With 8th Ed at least promising a faster gaming experience, well. That's good for me, no? If I can squeak out a decent sized game, including set up, within about two hours....I'll be active again in no time. And that's not due to a gutting of the rules. It's just less faffing. As a Mechanicus player, I'm stoked that I can field my Apocalypse Army without needing four books.

Mature? Funny. In this thread people seem to equate Mature with boobies, lady parts, rape and swearing....not a terribly mature attitude I'd wager.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 ForceChoke wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
For the record, if someone doesn't want their viewpoint challenged, they should probably just not post it on the internet...

So underhanded manipulation tactics, trying to bait belittle people with harassment is somehow justified? Right...

You're the one who is upset that people are disagreeing with you and posting that they disagree with you. I was just pointing out that if you want an echo chamber of people who only agree with you, a public forum is likely the worst place for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NenkotaMoon wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 NenkotaMoon wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

usmcmidn wrote:
This shows us that GW will never please everyone lol.

Chaos player: We need new models.
GW: How about these cool new demons?
Chaos player: No we meant Marines.
GW: okay, what about these very detailed plague guys?
Chaos player: No looks to silly.
GW: ... sigh... Blight drone?
Chaos player: No no one wants that.
GW: Screw it I'm making a sweet looking Repulser Tank.
Space Marine Player: Ew we need more fluffy models.
Sisters player: FFS !!!

Funny thing is that I love the new Death Guard models (especailly the Bloat Drone) but since I'm not running Death Guard I am declining to oick them up for the moment.

And in the end, the real victim is the SoB player.

I don't know of any Sisters players who have real expectations of plastics being a thing anytime soon at this point, myself included.

Ye of little faith, heretic.

I have faith, but no hope. Hope leads to damnation (and weird Tzeentchy tentacles).

Everyday, we stray farther and farther from the Emperor's light.

I'd just like to point out that they aren't going "cartoony" per-say. Firstly, the original figures were INCREDIBLY cartoony, as shown in a lot of images posted by people. As the developers grew the universe from rock bands (as shown in the thread, noise marines literally held guitars) and crazy action heroes in flared boots and massive shoulder pads, to suit the audiences of the time, it's gotten much more serious.
So the art style began to change with that, and the models got a little grittier and, I guess, more realistic? Though GW minis have ALWAYS had unrealistic proportions and "cartoony" features. Look at the Imperial Guard Cadian figures! Even the space marines, still with their 80's flares!
The art in the books absolutely changed and got a lot more realistic for the most part, and I feel like 6-7th ed figures began to loose some of their charm.
For AoS, they overhauled their art style, bringing in new sculptors and artists, and invented a new style that they could get into which has been the cause of some of the best models I've seen from any model company.
They're now doing that for 40k, doing the art in the books to match so that you don't have a terrible discrepancy between what the art tells you they should look like and what the figures actually look like. Also, now that they're able to put this amount of details into their minis, the art my as well replicate it.
So in short, I don't believe it's falling into a cartoony style. I think they've always had a cartoony style, but now they've got an art style for their figures that can allow their drawn art to look good even while replicating the figures.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
TL/DR, so I'll keep this fairly short.

Artwork. Subjective. Some consider Tracey Emin's bed to be actual art. I beg to differ. Neither party is Correct.

Gameplay. A game being made easier and thus quicker to play doesn't equate to be it being dumbed down, not is it a sign that it's solely for the youth. Consider my situation. As I type this, I'm on my coach home from work in London. It's now 17:12. If I, lucky, I'll be home around 18:30 with enough time to nip to the Post Office. That's my life Monday to Friday. Up at stupid o'clock, commute to work, do work, leave office around 4:30, commute home for around 18:30. Then there's dinner to think about, other irritating auditing to do. I barely played 6th and 7th Edition because I just never had the time.

With 8th Ed at least promising a faster gaming experience, well. That's good for me, no? If I can squeak out a decent sized game, including set up, within about two hours....I'll be active again in no time. And that's not due to a gutting of the rules. It's just less faffing. As a Mechanicus player, I'm stoked that I can field my Apocalypse Army without needing four books.

Mature? Funny. In this thread people seem to equate Mature with boobies, lady parts, rape and swearing....not a terribly mature attitude I'd wager.

Yeah, that level of "maturity" is the sort of maturity that pre-teens think is mature. Actual maturity would be looking at it, going "ain't my thing, but if it was a bit darker it might work" and moving on.

Flipping out because something doesn't market itself perfectly to you is definitely not a sign of maturity.

How cartoony models look is entirely subjective, while it is possible for models to look cartoony, these do not. that particular picture the Op showed is quite bright and clean though.

As for warhammer being for kids: no, it's not. At least in the way it's often implied. Warhammer is not and is not headed toward the kindergarten playroom. No even if the rules get simpler and/or the models get easier to build and paint. A lot of the fluff seems to be aimed at what teenage boys find awesome, but that does not make it "for kids".

GW models are definitely designed with ease of building and painting in mind (with exaggerated features and large flat spaces) painting a few true scale 28mm from other companies makes that obvious. Which is not a bad thing and does not mean it's necessarily aimed at younger customers, it could just as easily be aimed at people who prefer easy things over difficult things when the result is equivalent or better.

 Luciferian wrote:

 ForceChoke wrote:



No one is playing a victim card. This is the putting words in peoples mouths I was talking about. I was pointing out at the stupidity of trying to turn a subjective opionon into an argument. Enough.. Get over it.

So you don't want to discuss or be exposed to opinions that differ from your own, you just want a venue to express your subjective opinion without any feedback. May I suggest a journal?

A discussion would be great. But that's never going to happen against a lynch mob. Feedback would also be great. If people stopped with Trolling and twisting words. Not to mention the baiting and baseless arguments about baselessness.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Gameplay. A game being made easier and thus quicker to play doesn't equate to be it being dumbed down, not is it a sign that it's solely for the youth. Consider my situation. As I type this, I'm on my coach home from work in London. It's now 17:12. If I, lucky, I'll be home around 18:30 with enough time to nip to the Post Office. That's my life Monday to Friday. Up at stupid o'clock, commute to work, do work, leave office around 4:30, commute home for around 18:30. Then there's dinner to think about, other irritating auditing to do. I barely played 6th and 7th Edition because I just never had the time.

With 8th Ed at least promising a faster gaming experience, well. That's good for me, no? If I can squeak out a decent sized game, including set up, within about two hours....I'll be active again in no time. And that's not due to a gutting of the rules. It's just less faffing. As a Mechanicus player, I'm stoked that I can field my Apocalypse Army without needing four books.

I've found that I actually prefer faster and simpler rules as I get older. I have better things to occupy my mind than scouring army\rule books for the most effective way to play a game, I suppose.

Flipping out because something doesn't market itself perfectly to you is definitely not a sign of maturity.

Seems to be a sign of taking GW games too seriously.

Okay, okay, okay. i'll come in and piece it all out.

You guys are looking at cartoony paintjobs- not cartoony sculpting. The sculpts are no more or less cartoony than GW has been for a while (yes, there's some 'heroic' proportioning, but that's no more than usual- and even a little less with the Primaris Marines).

But that's not what people are seeing when they see something Cartoony here. What people are seeing is the paintjob that the studio gave to those Death guard.

They used light colors with very dark lining. Doing that together gives a mini an overly crisp look- and reminds us of the very crisp outlines in a cartoon or comic book.


This is why so many painters advise against using Black for lining- extremely dark lining gives an extremely crisp appearance that is often disliked- although I find it is entirely appropriate depending on the mini you're painting and the effect you're going for.

 ForceChoke wrote:

A discussion would be great. But that's never going to happen against a lynch mob. Feedback would also be great. If people stopped with Trolling and twisting words. Not to mention the baiting and baseless argumements about baselessness.

Discussion and feedback I see in this thread from people whose opinions differ from yours; a lynch mob not so much. You said you didn't like how simple the modeling aspect of the new starter set is, and people responded by (correctly) asserting that this is nothing new. You said you don't appreciate the over the top or cartoonish art design that GW is employing, and people again asserted (correctly) that over the top, silly models have also been around since the beginning, albeit with even less detail. When I started playing this game the 2nd edition cover art featured a Blood Angels captain with hot rod flames painted on his armor. And yes, to my 10-11 year old self, I found that to be pretty rad. As a grown man I still do. Yes, that is my subjective taste, but it's objectively false that the game or models themselves are moving in a particularly more cartoonish or childlike direction, because it always has had those elements. If that doesn't suit your own subjective tastes, there are plenty of ways you can paint or model your own miniatures in a more gritty and realistic manner. That's the point.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
TL/DR, so I'll keep this fairly short.

Artwork. Subjective. Some consider Tracey Emin's bed to be actual art. I beg to differ. Neither party is Correct.

Gameplay. A game being made easier and thus quicker to play doesn't equate to be it being dumbed down, not is it a sign that it's solely for the youth. Consider my situation. As I type this, I'm on my coach home from work in London. It's now 17:12. If I, lucky, I'll be home around 18:30 with enough time to nip to the Post Office. That's my life Monday to Friday. Up at stupid o'clock, commute to work, do work, leave office around 4:30, commute home for around 18:30. Then there's dinner to think about, other irritating auditing to do. I barely played 6th and 7th Edition because I just never had the time.

With 8th Ed at least promising a faster gaming experience, well. That's good for me, no? If I can squeak out a decent sized game, including set up, within about two hours....I'll be active again in no time. And that's not due to a gutting of the rules. It's just less faffing. As a Mechanicus player, I'm stoked that I can field my Apocalypse Army without needing four books.

Mature? Funny. In this thread people seem to equate Mature with boobies, lady parts, rape and swearing....not a terribly mature attitude I'd wager.

Yeah, that level of "maturity" is the sort of maturity that pre-teens think is mature. Actual maturity would be looking at it, going "ain't my thing, but if it was a bit darker it might work" and moving on.

Flipping out because something doesn't market itself perfectly to you is definitely not a sign of maturity.

This is exactly the BS I'm talking about. Your statement is inflammatory. How is saying "it aint my thing " Than agreeing with everyone I don't agree with. By saying ,but if It was a bit darker it might work." how is being force fed your ideals. Or being told I need to agree with you 100% in some way is mature at all. It's not.

You could paint the thing entirely black And I would still say the aesthetic is Cartoonish. I stand by my statement that the character assassination and manipulation by the fanboys here is insane. Control freaks much? You literally said "unless you say exactly my view point you're immature.

I am not saying no to being challenged. Sure go ahead say" I think it's not cartoonish. "

But there was no challenge. I was simply insulted told my subjective view point was baseless then told unless I accept that I'm wrong.

What I have been told to accept is not only abusive but down right creepy.

Unless I parrot exactly what you want me to say. You will continue to be controlling abusive trolls. So yeah. Try again maybe this time with basic human respect.

I will state this very simple so everyone can understand

To me personally. No matter how dark you paint it. The Aesthetic looks cartoonish.

Disagree all you want. But don't be a total creepy control freak when you do.

 ForceChoke wrote:


This is exactly the BS I'm talking about. Your statement is inflammatoire. How is saying "it aint my thing " Than agreeing with everyone I don't agree with. By saying ,but if It was a bit darker it might work." how is being force fed your ideals. Or being told I need to agree with you in some way mature at all. It's not.

You could paint the thing entirely black And I would still say the aesthetic is Cartoonish. I stand by my statement that the character assasination and manipulation by the fanboys here is insane. Control freaks much? You litteraly said "unless you say exactly my view point you're immature.

I am not saying no to being challanged. Sure go ahead say" I think it's not cartoonish. "

But there was no challenge. I was simply insulted told my subjective view point was baseless then told unless I accept that I'm wrong.

What I have been told to accept is not only abusive but down right creepy.

Unless I parrot exactly what you want me to say. You will continue to be controlling abusive trolls. So yeah. Try again maybe this time with basic human respect.

I will state this very simple so everyone can understand

To me personally. No matter how dark you paint it. The Aesthetic looks cartoonish.

Disagree all you want. But don't be a total creepy controll freak when you do.

You're the one throwing around insults and calling people creepy control freaks and fanboys for disagreeing with you. You were told your viewpoint was baseless because, well, it doesn't appear to be based on anything. You don't have any kind of supporting information to point to to back up what you're saying, you're just stating your opinion and then rebutting any dissent from that opinion by accusing people of being abusive toward you. So again, if you just wanted to state your opinion without having the expectation that you would elaborate on it or back it up with anything, and you don't want to entertain any other opinions, then why start the thread in the first place?

 Luciferian wrote:

 ForceChoke wrote:

A discussion would be great. But that's never going to happen against a lynch mob. Feedback would also be great. If people stopped with Trolling and twisting words. Not to mention the baiting and baseless argumements about baselessness.

Discussion and feedback I see in this thread from people whose opinions differ from yours; a lynch mob not so much. You said you didn't like how simple the modeling aspect of the new starter set is, and people responded by (correctly) asserting that this is nothing new. You said you don't appreciate the over the top or cartoonish art design that GW is employing, and people again asserted (correctly) that over the top, silly models have also been around since the beginning, albeit with even less detail. When I started playing this game the 2nd edition cover art featured a Blood Angels captain with hot rod flames painted on his armor. And yes, to my 10-11 year old self, I found that to be pretty rad. As a grown man I still do. Yes, that is my subjective taste, but it's objectively false that the game or models themselves are moving in a particularly more cartoonish or childlike direction, because it always has had those elements. If that doesn't suit your own subjective tastes, there are plenty of ways you can paint or model your own miniatures in a more gritty and realistic manner. That's the point.

I can agree to some of what you say. But I would point out that yes it started out cartoony do to lack of skill/ressources at the time. Around 4th 5th and 6th /7th there was a push for realism. Or less cartoony. The latest edition of tac squad could be an example. I will agree that somewhat cartoonish has always been a thing. But I would argue that the pendulam has swung to far back from realism into the realm of fusion/comics cartoons. And I know more then a few people agree. I suggest agreeing to disagree. It seems a lot better then the belittlement harrasment creepy controll freaks and trolls.

I disagree with you. By saying that we have "Correctly" asserting that this has always been the case. And saying it's objectivly false is just more being a controll freak. "Grim Dark" has been the standard. Visceral terrifying and hopeless. Is what the game is billed as.

You may feel that your subjective oppion is the only right anwser. But I disagree. And honestly nothing has been said to change my subjective opinion. I did learn never dissagree with creepy trolls that brow beat anyone they see as threatening or having differnt ideas.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 odinsgrandson wrote:
Okay, okay, okay. i'll come in and piece it all out.

You guys are looking at cartoony paint jobs- not cartoony sculpting. The sculpts are no more or less cartoony than GW has been for a while (yes, there's some 'heroic' proportioning, but that's no more than usual- and even a little less with the Primaris Marines).

But that's not what people are seeing when they see something Cartoony here. What people are seeing is the paint job that the studio gave to those Death guard.

They used light colors with very dark lining. Doing that together gives a mini an overly crisp look- and reminds us of the very crisp outlines in a cartoon or comic book.


This is why so many painters advise against using Black for lining- extremely dark lining gives an extremely crisp appearance that is often disliked- although I find it is entirely appropriate depending on the mini you're painting and the effect you're going for.

You could paint it any color you want and it will always look cartoonish.

 ForceChoke wrote:
This is exactly the BS I'm talking about. Your statement is inflammatoire.

Says the person who has attacked people for not agreeing with him and compared them to inflammatory groups.

That said, it's fitting that a Sister's player would light fires, no?

 ForceChoke wrote:
How is saying "it aint my thing " Than agreeing with everyone I don't agree with. By saying ,but if It was a bit darker it might work." how is being force fed your ideals. Or being told I need to agree with you in some way mature at all. It's not.

No one said you had to agree with anyone. But perhaps, you know, attacking people like you do in your very post I'm replying to right now (labeling people "fanboys" as an insult for making factual statements about the history of models, model kits and you know, everything GW has ever done). You claim you want a grittier and more mature look for the models while showing no maturity about the very topic you raised. Congrats?

 ForceChoke wrote:
You could paint the thing entirely black And I would still say the aesthetic is Cartoonish. I stand by my statement that the character assasination and manipulation by the fanboys here is insane. Control freaks much? You litteraly said "unless you say exactly my view point you're immature.

I am not saying no to being challanged. Sure go ahead say" I think it's not cartoonish."

I assume you're using the "figurative" definition of "literally" since I literally have never demanded that anyone agree with me. I have however pointed out that if you have issues with your views being challenged as you seem to, then the internet is no the best place to post said views.

And no, I don't think they're "cartoonish" as I don't see something I typically thing as "cartoony". That is a difference of opinion on what fits that definition though.

Now, claiming that this is somehow a new direction for the universe and the models is something that is blatantly false and something many of us have been actually been pointing out. GW has always had designs that tend to lean in this sort of direction and frankly to act like it's the new worst thing ever is a bit of a jump.

 ForceChoke wrote:
But there was no challenge. I was simply insulted told my subjective view point was baseless then told unless I accept that I'm wrong.

The only thing people have told you where wrong on had to do with the lack of poses due to it being a starter kit, and the idea that this direction of modeling is somehow a new thing that is now ruining the universe when it's the same direction things have been going in for decades.

Oh, and the idea that Plague Marines have [i]ever[/b] been the sort of entrail dragging models you prefer. To illustrate the point, these are all of the plague Marine models we have had since RT to the current kit:

Number 022317 in the middle has a Plague Marine gut







So yeah, while disgusting Plague Marines with hanging guts and the like are something that fit the lore, they've never been the official face of the unit on the table.

 ForceChoke wrote:
What I have been told to accept is not only abusive but down right creepy.

I've stated no such thing. All I said was that a knee jerk reaction and inflammatory posts about how everyone else is wrong for not agreeing with you is not really a mature reaction.

 ForceChoke wrote:
Unless I parrot exactly what you want me to say. You will continue to be controlling abusive trolls. So yeah. Try again maybe this time with basic human respect.

Again with the slander while pretending to be a victim of anything other than your own attitude. No one wants you to parrot anything, so please stop posting this tripe.

 ForceChoke wrote:
I will state this very simple so everyone can understand

To me personally. No matter how dark you paint it. The Aesthetic looks cartoonish.

Disagree all you want. But don't be a total creepy controll freak when you do.

Congrats, you think it's cartoonish and others don't. That's not what people have been correcting you on. We have tried to show that the paint job is largely responsible for how it looks since that can influence opinions, but no one has claimed (as far as I recall anyways) that you have to agree that it doesn't look cartoonish.

ForceChoke, I believe that you are recognising some legitimate issues with the new models, It's just that "cartoonish" is not the right word to describe it. It just isn't a very useful word to describe what you are talking about. At best cartoonish is having exaggerated eyes, heads, and hands, and wildly animated too. The new models are literally the opposite of that with more realistic proportions. There are lots of negative things you can call them but cartoon is one that doesn't actually fit very well.

What other people have commented on these models is that they are over designed. Too many details in an effort that screams "look how much detail is on these models". It doesn't look realistic at all but that's not the same as being cartoonish. Maybe stylized would be a better word. The best example is that gigantic bell. Can you imagine how that thing would swing around while the marine runs about the battlefield? Yeah, no paint job is going to cover that one.

Personally though I don't think 40k would be better off if everything was painted call of duty brown or michael bay orange. And I don't think you do either.

I think these plague marines look better than previous generations, but I think gw painted them cartoony to appeal to a more family friendly crowd. with the right paintjob I think they could look downright gruesome.

 Luciferian wrote:

 ForceChoke wrote:


This is exactly the BS I'm talking about. Your statement is inflammatoire. How is saying "it aint my thing " Than agreeing with everyone I don't agree with. By saying ,but if It was a bit darker it might work." how is being force fed your ideals. Or being told I need to agree with you in some way mature at all. It's not.

You could paint the thing entirely black And I would still say the aesthetic is Cartoonish. I stand by my statement that the character assasination and manipulation by the fanboys here is insane. Control freaks much? You litteraly said "unless you say exactly my view point you're immature.

I am not saying no to being challanged. Sure go ahead say" I think it's not cartoonish. "

But there was no challenge. I was simply insulted told my subjective view point was baseless then told unless I accept that I'm wrong.

What I have been told to accept is not only abusive but down right creepy.

Unless I parrot exactly what you want me to say. You will continue to be controlling abusive trolls. So yeah. Try again maybe this time with basic human respect.

I will state this very simple so everyone can understand

To me personally. No matter how dark you paint it. The Aesthetic looks cartoonish.

Disagree all you want. But don't be a total creepy controll freak when you do.

You're the one throwing around insults and calling people creepy control freaks and fanboys for disagreeing with you. You were told your viewpoint was baseless because, well, it doesn't appear to be based on anything. You don't have any kind of supporting information to point to to back up what you're saying, you're just stating your opinion and then rebutting any dissent from that opinion by accusing people of being abusive toward you. So again, if you just wanted to state your opinion without having the expectation that you would elaborate on it or back it up with anything, and you don't want to entertain any other opinions, then why start the thread in the first place?

Your god dam right I'm calling the control freaks creepy and abusive. Being told that unless you parrot what we think your immature and wrong is creepy as ..

I don't need to back up a subjective opinion on art. The plastic modeling no matter how you paint it with the stupid bells and giant teeth look cartoonish. Which is an entirely subjective opinion. If you all understood that evidence is not reacquired for personal taste and stopped being creepy and abusive we could all get along great. I will not parrot what you want. I refuse to capitulate to abusive creeps that control everything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Point_blank wrote:
ForceChoke, I believe that you are recognising some legitimate issues with the new models, It's just that "cartoonish" is not the right word to describe it. It just isn't a very useful word to describe what you are talking about. At best cartoonish is having exaggerated eyes, heads, and hands, and wildly animated too. The new models are literally the opposite of that with more realistic proportions. There are lots of negative things you can call them but cartoon is one that doesn't actually fit very well.

What other people have commented on these models is that they are over designed. Too many details in an effort that screams "look how much detail is on these models". It doesn't look realistic at all but that's not the same as being cartoonish. Maybe stylized would be a better word. The best example is that gigantic bell. Can you imagine how that thing would swing around while the marine runs about the battlefield? Yeah, no paint job is going to cover that one.

Personally though I don't think 40k would be better off if everything was painted call of duty brown or michael bay orange. And I don't think you do either.

I 100% believe cartoonish is the right word to describe it. Please explain how it looking cartoonish no matter how you paint it to my eyes is incorrect. Cartoonish and heavily stylized. My subjective oppion. How canI be incorrect from an entirely subjective view point or baseless or anything else that was said.

Also others agree others disagree. Just leave it at that. Stop trying to tell me that my brain coming up with the "cartoonish" adjective on a subjective art piece is incorrect.


How about a basic level of understanding you could say. " I personally dont find it cartoonish. That would make more sense

This thread got hilarious.

What he wants is for people to validate his opinion by telling him his opinion is valid.

C'mon everybody!

Hey Forcechoke. You are entitled to your opinion. If you think the sculpt is cartoony and bad that is okay. It's okay man. People feel all kinds of ways and this is the way you feel and it's okay. Your opinion is valid.

 Lance845 wrote:
This thread got hilarious.

It's been hilarious for a while now. I'm starting to wonder if we're being trolled.

Considering no one understands English or the word subjective. I think I will stop replying.

No one is wrong we are talking about weather you like something as in personal taste.

"I disagree I don't find it cartoonish" would have been a less creeptastic control freak response.

It's art. Art is subjective. I personally find the kits aesthetics not to my personnel taste because no matter how you paint it. It will still look cartoonish to me. There is no being wrong or incorrect. When it comes to personal taste. Can you all off with the trolling. And can a mod close this thread.

Jebus Christ

 ForceChoke wrote:


Around 4th 5th and 6th /7th there was a push for realism. Or less cartoony.

 ForceChoke wrote:

 Luciferian wrote:

 ForceChoke wrote:


This is exactly the BS I'm talking about. Your statement is inflammatoire. How is saying "it aint my thing " Than agreeing with everyone I don't agree with. By saying ,but if It was a bit darker it might work." how is being force fed your ideals. Or being told I need to agree with you in some way mature at all. It's not.

You could paint the thing entirely black And I would still say the aesthetic is Cartoonish. I stand by my statement that the character assasination and manipulation by the fanboys here is insane. Control freaks much? You litteraly said "unless you say exactly my view point you're immature.

I am not saying no to being challanged. Sure go ahead say" I think it's not cartoonish. "

But there was no challenge. I was simply insulted told my subjective view point was baseless then told unless I accept that I'm wrong.

What I have been told to accept is not only abusive but down right creepy.

Unless I parrot exactly what you want me to say. You will continue to be controlling abusive trolls. So yeah. Try again maybe this time with basic human respect.

I will state this very simple so everyone can understand

To me personally. No matter how dark you paint it. The Aesthetic looks cartoonish.

Disagree all you want. But don't be a total creepy controll freak when you do.

You're the one throwing around insults and calling people creepy control freaks and fanboys for disagreeing with you. You were told your viewpoint was baseless because, well, it doesn't appear to be based on anything. You don't have any kind of supporting information to point to to back up what you're saying, you're just stating your opinion and then rebutting any dissent from that opinion by accusing people of being abusive toward you. So again, if you just wanted to state your opinion without having the expectation that you would elaborate on it or back it up with anything, and you don't want to entertain any other opinions, then why start the thread in the first place?

Your god dam right I'm calling the controll freaks creepy and abusive. Being told that unless you parrot what we think your immature and wrong is creepy as ..

I don't need to back up a subjective oppion on art. The plastic modeling no matter how you paint it with the stupid bells and giant teeth look cartoonish. Which is an entirely subjective oppion. If you all understood that evidence is not reauired for personal taste and stopped being creepy and abusive we could all get along great. I will not parrot what you want. I refuse to capitulate to abusive creeps that controll everything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Point_blank wrote:
ForceChoke, I believe that you are recognising some legitimate issues with the new models, It's just that "cartoonish" is not the right word to describe it. It just isn't a very useful word to describe what you are talking about. At best cartoonish is having exaggerated eyes, heads, and hands, and wildly animated too. The new models are literally the opposite of that with more realistic proportions. There are lots of negative things you can call them but cartoon is one that doesn't actually fit very well.

What other people have commented on these models is that they are over designed. Too many details in an effort that screams "look how much detail is on these models". It doesn't look realistic at all but that's not the same as being cartoonish. Maybe stylized would be a better word. The best example is that gigantic bell. Can you imagine how that thing would swing around while the marine runs about the battlefield? Yeah, no paint job is going to cover that one.

Personally though I don't think 40k would be better off if everything was painted call of duty brown or michael bay orange. And I don't think you do either.

I 100% believe cartoonish is the right word to describe it. Please explain how it looking cartoonish no matter how you paint it to my eyes is incorrect. Cartoonish and heavily stylized. My subjective oppion. How canI be incorrect from an entirely subjective view point or baseless or anything else that was said.

Also others agree others disagree. Just leave it at that. Stop trying to tell me that my brain coming up with the "cartoonish" adjective on a subjective art piece is incorrect.


How about a basic level of understanding you could say. " I personally dont find it cartoonish. That would make more sense

Just because you can have your own personal and subjective opinion does not give you a magical "get out of jail" free card that makes you exempt from people critiquing or pointing out the flaws in your opinion. Opinions CAN in fact, be wrong. The fact that you have to resort to ad hominems and playing the victim rather than backing up your statements (notice how the posters you're decrying as control freaks and "abusers" post actual pics and evidence that directly support their opinion, unlike yours) implies that maybe your subjective opinion isn't such an untouchable thing after all?

Also, it's kinda ironic that you call people out for being control freaks when its you whose been telling everyone to back off and accept that your opinion is correct.

 ForceChoke wrote:


I don't need to back up a subjective oppion on art. The plastic modeling no matter how you paint it with the stupid bells and giant teeth look cartoonish. Which is an entirely subjective oppion.

 Luciferian wrote:

 ForceChoke wrote:


I don't need to back up a subjective oppion on art. The plastic modeling no matter how you paint it with the stupid bells and giant teeth look cartoonish. Which is an entirely subjective oppion.

Agreed. I like objectivity over subjectivity in my opinions.