Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)

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**SemperMortis**

koooaei wrote:
I've tried min kommandoes and they're not bad cause of free nob, burnas and infiltrate. But it's a rare day they ever get to use this +1 for cover.

They're fine to supplement the front or grab a remote point for just 45 pts. But i'd not expect them to actually tie stuff up on their own. Cause they're likely to be far away from a warboss and loose 1-2 guyz to overwatch and than 1-2 to mellee retaliation, the rest can just run away from ld. And if not, enemy can simply fall back and shoot a couple bolters at them to finish off.

They're still nice for the price.

Exactly this. I also used them though to scare the hell out of a SM Gunline army last weekend.

I gave my Nobs Big Choppas and had them "appear" behind his main lines next to his whirlewinds/predators (2 of each) I Had 4 squads of them and they managed 2 successful assaults on his gunline and due to the new CC rules I was able to tie up all 4 vehicles for his turn. Turn 2 the other units were able to close and assault as well. By this point he freaked out so badly he retreated his units to try and save his vehicles and my Stormboyz and BW Boyz mopped up the game.

In all fairness to SM players though this guy was a clown with no tactics beyond "shoot everything".

**gungo**

MangoMadness wrote:
DaisyWondercow wrote:
an immediate lesson learned for list building: minimize your deployment.

In 8th, most of the missions have the first player to finish deploying also go first. In this edition of definitely T2 (sometimes even T1!) charges, this is critical. So <SNIP> run kommandos, get that first turn!

I want to talk about kommandos and deployment as it seems to be inferred that using them reduces your total number of deployments, i would disagree but i would like others opinions.

Kommando entry states "During deployment, you may set up a unit of Kommandos in hiding instead of placing them on the battlefield"

Lets dissect the sentence
"During Deployment" - pretty obvious, during Deployment as outlined by the scenario.
", you may set up a unit of Kommandos in hiding" - gives a secondary deployment option
"instead of placing them on the battlefield" - the normal option for deployment during 'Deployment'

I see this as still having to use the normal deployment rules (as per scenario) but having a secondary option. This is how i see them being deployed

During Deployment
Opponent - Deploys Unit
Ork player - I select kommando unit 1 in hiding 'instead of placing them on the battlefield'
Opponent - Deploys Unit
Ork Player - I select kommando unit 2 and place them *here*

I dont see where their alternate placement method means they skips normal deployment, unless there is a rule in the rulebook that i have missed (a possibility as we dont even have the rules yet )

What do you think and why do you think it?

Ya I see your point and I agree with you however you don't deploy them during deployment phase. They are in reserves until you decide in which turn during your movement phase you wish to deploy. Sadly that should be all that matters for deciding who gets first turn. If it wasn't then every unit deployed in a vehicle would count for deployment. Since you actually need to declare during the deployment phase which units are deployed in which vehicles.

**JohnU**

Meka Dread rules previewed: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/12/forge-world-index-xenos-preview/

Did they have an improved BS previously?

**theocracity**

JohnU wrote:
Meka Dread rules previewed: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/12/forge-world-index-xenos-preview/

Did they have an improved BS previously?

I didn't think so but I don't have the rules in front of me to check.

The rattler cannon looks potentially insane.

**Sal4m4nd3r**

Weazel wrote:
Planning on running 8-10 Nobz. How do you feel about combi-skorchas? They cost as much as another Nob but they overcome the lackluster BS and might be useful in overwatch if you happen to catch a charge. Are they worth it or should I just use the points for another Nob?

I want to love Kombii weapons so bad! Just from a modeling perspective the thought of just attaching a scorches to the kombi shoota with some greenstuff rope or greenstuff "duct tape" is hilarious to me. I just wish they were cheaper!! 20 points is a lot. How many times will you fire that scorcha in 5 turns? 2 maybe three times? An extra nob will fight twice as many times as that. If I did Kombi weapons, I think rokkits with a couple ammo runts (which I will be taking anyways to eat wounds) could be quite effective. My first game the opponent had a ton of rhinos. And they didn't do a lot of damage but he would drop the unit inside hen use the rhinos to block me and tie up other units. Forcing them to fall back and I just didn't have enough rokkits to take them down fast enough. Volume rokkit fire is going to be helpful in a world of such tough transports.

**warhead01**

So it's around 240 points. How close is that to what it used to cost?

**JohnU**

warhead01 wrote:
So it's around 240 points. How close it that to what it used to cost?

Between ~200 and almost 300 depending on loadout.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Ork_Dread_Mob_Army_List_Update.pdf

**gungo**

JohnU wrote:
warhead01 wrote:
So it's around 240 points. How close it that to what it used to cost?

Between ~200 and almost 300 depending on loadout.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Ork_Dread_Mob_Army_List_Update.pdf

Not sure where you get 240. It could be anywhere. The power rating is 2/3 of a morkanaut so 180 or 200 with a Kff. In all honesty this will replace my morkanaut as the KFF dread since the morkanauts weapons are a bit lackluster compared to the gorkanaut. The mega charga is an interesting choice for a cheap melee version HOWEVER the ramshackle monster seems ripe for some command point rerolls for an extremely durable KFF dread. 3+ armor OR 5+ invul, and then a 4+ FNP. Even vs mortal wounds that 4+ FNP is insanely strong with command point rerolls.

Secondly Im confused on the arm options? did Fw at some point sell a rattler kannon arm and a big zappa arm? Because the only arm options sold right now are Klaw, kill saw, shunta, and killkannon arms for the meka/mega dread series. And I am assuming the mega dread will have the killkannon and killsaw options instead. Depending on the cost of the arms the zzap kannon is fairly nice for a 4+ bs ork vehicle with Heavy 3 shots average str7, ap-4 with 4 damage.

**Solar Shock**

The Meka-dredd looks soooo fun. Im taking two for sure. The mega-charga for literally getting it straight up the board. I still think a KFF morka might be a good companion. Then you can have a CC orientated meka that literally steams up the board the morka right behind it to give it a tasty 5++ to shooting.

Then they have to decide do they go for the CC monster that has a 4+ FNP. or the morka shielding it.

Or maybe you just go full ham and gorkas/meka's. Could be brutal. Gona get my converting going!

**SemperMortis**

8in Move +8in Charga move + D6 + 2D6

Team 2 of those up with some stormboyz and maybe an escort of bikers and you have a pretty nasty alpha strike list

**Sal4m4nd3r**

koooaei wrote:
I've tried min kommandoes and they're not bad cause of free nob, burnas and infiltrate. But it's a rare day they ever get to use this +1 for cover.

I understand the burnas are free because they cost no points, but how is the nob free? Dont you have to pay the 17 points for a boss nob in every squad?

**davou**

boss nob is always free

**Jidmah**

For those sick of flipping back and forth through the leaked indexes:

One of the better German army building tools just added Orks for 8th and even includes comand point calculation. From what I can tell there aren't any obvious errors in it either.

Some parts of it are in German, but currently all unit and upgrade names are in English, so you can use it for list building even if you don't know any German:

http://www.onlinecodex.de/forum/thread-3037.html (click the "Testversion" link")

**Dojo**

JohnU wrote:
Meka Dread rules previewed: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/12/forge-world-index-xenos-preview/

Did they have an improved BS previously?

This actually looks really good, the additional BS is really nice too. This gives me a bit of hope for the rest of our FW releases as we need some more shooty threat.

**Solar Shock**

Jidmah wrote:
For those sick of flipping back and forth through the leaked indexes:

One of the better German army building tools just added Orks for 8th and even includes comand point calculation. From what I can tell there aren't any obvious errors in it either.

Some parts of it are in German, but currently all unit and upgrade names are in English, so you can use it for list building even if you don't know any German:

http://www.onlinecodex.de/forum/thread-3037.html (click the "Testversion" link")

You da man Jidmah!
You da Ger-man!

God it was infuriating trying to sort back and forth!

**Sal4m4nd3r**

davou wrote:
boss nob is always free

While I'm very happy to hear.. can you provide an explanation as to why?

Lets use a boyz mob as an example. It says a boy can be replaced with a boss nob. I was under the assumption I had to pay the 17 points associated with a "nob" in the points section. However, on closer examination it says "Nobz" which is the entry associated with a unit of nobz.. and there is no entry for "Boss nob". WOW thats amazing. Free boss nobz. What a time to be alive.

**Blackie**

The nob upgrade is now free in each unit that can have it. Boyz, warbikers, kommandos, tankbustas, stormboyz... they can all have a nob leading them without paying any cost

**G00fySmiley**

Blackie wrote:
The nob upgrade is now free in each unit that can have it. Boyz, warbikers, kommandos, tankbustas, stormboyz... they can all have a nob leading them without paying any cost

I don't know if I would say it is free. it is part of the unit cost itself. so a boyz mob is balanced at 6 points per model under the assumption of a nob being present, same was tau now have shasui (sp?) include din the cost

**JimOnMars**

boss nob <> nobz.

**Anpu-adom**

One boy just becomes a Boss Nob, you don't need to spend any points to do that. Same thing for Sergeants in the Imperium armies. Reecius was asked about it about a week ago, and that was his answer.

**Jpr**

I Really like what theyve done with Orks this edition! So much better.

Here is the list I was going to run as my start point:

Batallion:
Warboss, kustom shoota big choppa
Weirdboy
Nob with banner, kustom shoota
Painboy klaw
Painboy klaw
5x30 orks
1x29 orks
Trukk big shoota

Supreme Command
5xWeirdboy

Fortification
Void shield generator

Love the idea of putting 180 orks down using the void shields and pain boys to help advance across the field using wound shenanigans, while weirdboys pick off bits and pieces. Orks are so much better in combat with str4!

**warhead01**

Jpr wrote:
I Really like what theyve done with Orks this edition! So much better.

Here is the list I was going to run as my start point:

Batallion:
Warboss, kustom shoota big choppa
Weirdboy
Nob with banner, kustom shoota
Painboy klaw
Painboy klaw
5x30 orks
1x29 orks
Trukk big shoota

Supreme Command
5xWeirdboy

Fortification
Void shield generator

Love the idea of putting 180 orks down using the void shields and pain boys to help advance across the field using wound shenanigans, while weirdboys pick off bits and pieces. Orks are so much better in combat with str4!

Why so many Weird boys. Right now there a total of 4 Powers. What kind of game is this for? If it's matched play you'll have a few weirdboys standing around waiting their turn.

**Jpr**

I use them for smiting, they can easily do lots of d6 mortal wounds as you can cast multiple smites (its an exception in matched play) and they are great for removing tougher vehicles and things. Of course you only hit the closest target but im happy removing d6x6 wounds every turn!

**Anpu-adom**

This is where I'm at right now, at least for a start.

Batallion:
Big Mek, KFF and oiler
Big Mek, KFF and oiler
11 Slugga Boyz and Nob
11 Slugga Boyz and Nob
11 Slugga Boyz and Nob
8 Burnas
Battle Wagon w/Deff Rolla
3 Trukks w/Wreckin's Ball

Outrider
Big Mek, KFF and Oiler
2 Deff Dreads, 2 Klaws, Skorcha, and Big Shoota on each
3 Killa Kans w/Rokkits
3 Killa Kans w/Rokkits
3 Killa Kans w/Grotzooka
3 Killa Kan

**warhead01**

Jpr wrote:
I use them for smiting, they can easily do lots of d6 mortal wounds as you can cast multiple smites (its an exception in matched play) and they are great for removing tougher vehicles and things. Of course you only hit the closest target but im happy removing d6x6 wounds every turn!

I completely missed that. Learn something new everyday lol.

**davou**

Jpr wrote:
I Really like what theyve done with Orks this edition! So much better.

Here is the list I was going to run as my start point:

Batallion:
Warboss, kustom shoota big choppa
Weirdboy
Nob with banner, kustom shoota
Painboy klaw
Painboy klaw
5x30 orks
1x29 orks
Trukk big shoota

Supreme Command
5xWeirdboy

Fortification
Void shield generator

Love the idea of putting 180 orks down using the void shields and pain boys to help advance across the field using wound shenanigans, while weirdboys pick off bits and pieces. Orks are so much better in combat with str4!

whats the points total?

**Latro_**

how are folks getting on with deffkoptas? seem to be one of the units that have changed the most almost trippled in pts but more durable, better setup options and the bigbomm!

**SemperMortis**

Latro_ wrote:
how are folks getting on with deffkoptas? seem to be one of the units that have changed the most almost trippled in pts but more durable, better setup options and the bigbomm!

Stripped them of their now useless rokkitz and gave them a pair of big shootas. They did decent work and were excellent support for my Kommandos

**tag8833**

The Battlescribe Ork file is all ready for 8th. In fact almost all of the BS files are updated for 8th.

Right now you have to download them manually: https://github.com/BSData/wh40k/tree/40k8eprep
1) Clone or Download, Download as a zip file.
2) Unzip to your BS data folder, which usually lives at c:\users\(Your Username)\Battlescribe\data\
Instructions for mobile here: https://github.com/BSData/wh40k/issues/3823

On release day (this weekend) they should go out automatically.

**davou**

tag8833 wrote:
The Battlescribe Ork file is all ready for 8th. In fact almost all of the BS files are updated for 8th.

Right now you have to download them manually: https://github.com/BSData/wh40k/tree/40k8eprep
1) Clone or Download, Download as a zip file.
2) Unzip to your BS data folder, which usually lives at c:\users\(Your Username)\Battlescribe\data\
Instructions for mobile here: https://github.com/BSData/wh40k/issues/3823

On release day (this weekend) they should go out automatically.

Used to love battle scribe, and I would gladly pay for a premium version... but the subscription model is garbage and I booted it off my phone the second I saw it.