Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)

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**Grotrebel**

CaptainCarrots wrote:
Speaking of walkers, can somebody explain to me how the "ramshackle monstrosity" rule for meka dreads works?

Like if I'm hit with a squad of devastators with lascannons, do I roll my d6 dice one at a time after they've rolled their d6 wounds and "degrade" the RM save after every failure? Or does one successful RM save negate all d6 unsaved wounds? Or does the save "degrade" only after the shooting from that unit has been entirely resolved?

If it's the first option, the rule feels useless, but if it's something else it could be quite good.

The order is woundallocation -> safes -> wounds loss depending on damage -> rolling for RM one dice at a time

So lets say they get 3 wounds on your Meka dread.
Now you would get to roll your saves, lets asume you make one, that means you still get 2 wounds.
Then the player controlling the devastors rolls for damage, lets say 3 & 4 which adds to loosing 7 wounds.
Now you may roll for RM, one by one.
You feel lucky and roll 5,5,4 and then a 2. -> 3 wounds prevented, 1 suffered and RM degrades to 5+.
Then you roll 5 and 2, 1 more wound safed & 1 suffered, RM degrades to 6+.
7th dice shows a 6, wound prevented and RM still active.

**Breng77**

So after my games this weekend a very orky stratagem I would like to see in our codex is a stratagem that allows you to explode your own vehicles when they die. It would be powerful and very in theme.

**Jidmah**

pismakron wrote:
Boyz One of the best units in the game. The math favours sluggas, but shootas works surprisingly well and gives you some flexibility. If you are struggling with orks, bring more boyz.
Ghazkgull An absolute killing machine and surprisingly durable. Works well in mechanized lists as well as with foot infantry.
Warboss The buffs provided by a warboss are crucial for boy blobs, and his damage output is quite decent. The Big Choppa is a good option for a Warboss, as is a Warbike, but leave the Mega Armor at home.
Weirdboy An auto-include. The weirdboy can reliable deny Magnus, is a smite machine, and has access to two good powers in Warpath and Da Jump.
Big Mek An important part of most ork lists, but not an auto-include. Always give him a KFF. A Warbike is also a good option as the KFF is very dependent on positioning. Don't waste points on klaws, saws, blastas or the stupid shokk attack gun.
Painboy The 6+ save is pretty weak, but his abillity to heal characters is very useful. Healing weirdboyz and Ghaz will earn his points back, and with four attacks he has better damage output than a Big Mek.
Grotsnik A better painboy that only costs 9 more points. He is pretty tough with dual FNP saves.
Tankbustas Very decent damage output, but they are way too squishy to use on foot. Works well in mechanized lists. When playing with Powerlevels these are extremely undercosted, and you can field a horde of only tankbustas.
Nobz They sort of work like more concentrated boyz, but somewhat less efficiently. They are probably an important part of most mechanized lists. Ammo runts are worth it for the ablative wounds.
Stormboyz Good for bracketing vehicles so they cannot fall back. Also, you don't lose out on the Greentide bonus by taking lots of min-sized squads. When playing with powerlevels Stormboyz are an absolute steal.
Banner Nob Provides a nice buff for all Ork lists, but he is pretty expensive. He is good with walkers, and practically mandatory for Kans.
Kommandos Good for grabbing objectives. Can also make first turn charges. They have a very usefull cover bonus, but they are kitted out for close combat, which is difficult to reconcile. Would be better if they could take shootas.
Battlewagon Good with hard-top and a deff-rolla. You can add som big-shootqas if you like, but the killkannon is way over-priced. A bit situational, but the deffrolla will absolutely murder culexus assassins.
Trukk Suprisingly durable and our go-to transport for anything shooty (tankbustas)
Gorkanaut Very tough and a beast in close-combat. The shooting is kind of meh, especially when you are advancing or fighting in close combat.
Zaggstruk Extremely good if you take multiple full-sized squads of stormboyz. Otherwise leave him at home.
Lootas Good damage output, but very squishy and needs to remain stationary. An auto-include if you take a fortification, which you probably never will.
Deff dread Very good damage output, but the dread is very squishy and badly needs KFF protection. Too slow to reliably charge on turn two. They are useless for shooting.
Morkanaut Like the Gorkanaut but with less damage output and a gun that fries itself.
Killa Kan Reasonably durable and shooty, but needs lots of baby sitting: A Banner Nob to make them usefull in close combat and a Bik Mek with a KFF to make them survive. They also need a warboss or command-points to help with morale. Oh, and they don't benefit from 'Ere We Go.
Kannon + KMK The artillery pieces are squishy and has a mediocre damage output. The Kannon and KMK are almost average. The rest are worse.
Dakkajet It can do plenty of damage, but it is easy to kill and quite dear. Hope for first turn.
Deffkopta The bomb is good, and the ability to assault things that are behind a screen can be game-winning. On the downside they are expensive and squishy and do too little.
Burnas Too expensive, and with the weakest flamer in the game.
Gretchin The worst statline in the game yet as expensive as a conscript.
Runtherd Useless because grots are useless. Only take him to fill a slot.
Mini mek He has a cool model, but he really has no purpose. Waste of points.
Flash Gitz Very expensive and very squishy. They badly need a transport but they also need to remain stationary.
Stompa It is a gorkanaut boosted by 50% but with the cost boosted by +200%. Would be worth it with a base cost of around 550 points.

I'll take this and edit the few things that I feel don't reflect what I read in the thread. It's also a pretty raindbow

Thanks for your help everyone!

**TedNugent**

Does anyone know where to find current Zhadsnark rules?

**Breng77**

TedNugent wrote:
Does anyone know where to find current Zhadsnark rules?

They are in the FW xenos index

**Cuz05**

Half the time, Ramshackle Monster saves just 1 wound for me. The other half, I forget to even use it.
Pretty worthless to me

**Breng77**

Cuz05 wrote:
Half the time, Ramshackle Monster saves just 1 wound for me. The other half, I forget to even use it.
Pretty worthless to me

yeah the regular ramshackle rule is straight up better even though it is a 6+. I started reading it and was like "awesome!", then saw the degrading for each failure, and was like..."so 1 lascannon doing decent damage is not unlikely to erase this entirely" I mean 3 damage has a 28% chance of wiping out the entire rule. 6 damage is very going to take it out.(50-50 to fail, so the first 2 damage takes out the 4+, then the remaining 4 takes both the 5+ and 6+) if it were going to degrade I would rather see it do so with the model profile when it takes wounds, so 4+ in the first phase, 5+ in the second stage, and 6+ in the final stage. Or if it was to be more interesting, have it get better as it loses wounds and reverse that. So it gets more durable as it gets closer to being dead.

**SemperMortis**

Breng77 wrote:
Cuz05 wrote:
Half the time, Ramshackle Monster saves just 1 wound for me. The other half, I forget to even use it.
Pretty worthless to me

yeah the regular ramshackle rule is straight up better even though it is a 6+. I started reading it and was like "awesome!", then saw the degrading for each failure, and was like..."so 1 lascannon doing decent damage is not unlikely to erase this entirely" I mean 3 damage has a 28% chance of wiping out the entire rule. 6 damage is very going to take it out.(50-50 to fail, so the first 2 damage takes out the 4+, then the remaining 4 takes both the 5+ and 6+) if it were going to degrade I would rather see it do so with the model profile when it takes wounds, so 4+ in the first phase, 5+ in the second stage, and 6+ in the final stage. Or if it was to be more interesting, have it get better as it loses wounds and reverse that. So it gets more durable as it gets closer to being dead.

Another example of something that could have been good for orks but some idiot at GW grabbed and destroyed first.

The Idea of giving it a 4+ Ramshackle that degrades with wounds is a great one, It also makes more sense.

**Breng77**

SemperMortis wrote:
Breng77 wrote:
Cuz05 wrote:
Half the time, Ramshackle Monster saves just 1 wound for me. The other half, I forget to even use it.
Pretty worthless to me

yeah the regular ramshackle rule is straight up better even though it is a 6+. I started reading it and was like "awesome!", then saw the degrading for each failure, and was like..."so 1 lascannon doing decent damage is not unlikely to erase this entirely" I mean 3 damage has a 28% chance of wiping out the entire rule. 6 damage is very going to take it out.(50-50 to fail, so the first 2 damage takes out the 4+, then the remaining 4 takes both the 5+ and 6+) if it were going to degrade I would rather see it do so with the model profile when it takes wounds, so 4+ in the first phase, 5+ in the second stage, and 6+ in the final stage. Or if it was to be more interesting, have it get better as it loses wounds and reverse that. So it gets more durable as it gets closer to being dead.

Another example of something that could have been good for orks but some idiot at GW grabbed and destroyed first.

The Idea of giving it a 4+ Ramshackle that degrades with wounds is a great one, It also makes more sense.

I mean it falls into my issue with FW right now that everything they make seems better than the equivalent from GW, but yeah it would be actually a useful rule.

**SemperMortis**

I really want someone who actually plays the faction and gives a damn about them being good to be put in charge of our 8th edition codex which is set for release in 2029.

**Jidmah**

First post is still missing judgement on the following units:

Burna-Bommer
Wazbom Blastajet
Wartrakks/Buggies
Warbikers
Biker Nobz
Skorchas
Kaptin Badrukk (maybe consider running him without Flash Gits?)

"They all suck, never play them" is not something I will add to the first post.

Also a full list of FW units would be nice.

**morfydd**

Kaptain Badrukk would be dark blue on that rainbow list as a solo He provides our only source of safe plasma

(Have to admitt he did a better job overall than i did with my previous list)

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wazbom Yellow - Only needed if taking an air det to provide KFF to a flyer squadron ..(ie two or more dakkjets /blitaz)

Bikers Yellow - small groups can bubble wrap a warboss and get a BC to the front quick They are pricey thou ..
Nob Bikers = Red ..just to little for to many points

Buggies and Trakks are better than Deffkoptas at the same job for less points but no bomb so same level as deffkoptas
Yellow

Skorcha Buggy is Blue ..its auto hit and fast enough to deliver and a group is tough enough and has enough wounds per model to get a few shots off before they start popping

**koooaei**

-I'd rate blitza bombers yellow because they're too expensive for what they do. They want to kill elites but elites almost never run in squads of more than 5.

-Dakkajets are only ok because orks really lack efficient shooting and dakkajet is the closest to...almost having it. It's no more than 50% overpriced - which is almost like OP for ork standards. And that's more like blue rather than cyan.

-Burnabombers are worse blitza bombers, so they go red. Not because they're awful and unplayable but because they literally do the same thing but worse for ~the same amount of points.

- I don't understant the honor of being cyan that painboyz and banner nobz get. Especially footslogging painboyz and 79 ppm banner nobz. I can see a niche use of a biker painboy if you're desperate to make a biker horde army work somewhat (but you're probably still better off with just more bikers). There is Grotsnik - a bigger better painboy that is twice as tough, twice as killy and costs just a couple pts more. And there is almost no reason to take more than one painboy. Thus, i'd rate Painboyz...orange? Cause they're between yellow and red. If i had to choose one, i'd pick yellow. Their niche is occupied with Grotsnik that's better for like 95% of the lists. And banner nobz are just too expensive. You got to protect him and keep distance in mind and he only buffs choppiness while orks start lacking bodies by turn 3. I'd just spend this points on 13 more boyz, to be honest. Often, boy'z mellee damage output is allready enough without extra buffs.

- On the other hand, nobz and kommandoes should definitely be cyan. Nobz are the driving force of mech ork lists. And if not for the vehicles being overpriced and easy to kill, nobz would have been green. They concentrate the punch, they have big choppas and 4+. And most importantly they have ammo runts to eat multi-damage weapons. Kommandoes feel somewhat overpriced and underperforming if you just look at their stats but their tactical implimentation is huge. They can appear anywhere any time you like. A min squad just costs 45 pts and for this cost you get a free nob and 2 burnas. They don't kill all that much but they supplement the force and help you score. Great unit. A bit lacking and not great for spam but you will appretiate a squad or two of those guyz.

- I'd rate burnas yellow. They're only red because people have been given false expectations of them being green. But they're kinda like more concentrated shootaboyz. Ok for mech lists. And once again, if ork transports were better, burnas would also perform better.

- I also think that big/mek gunz should be blue. They aren't great at shooting but they can score and distract an opponent from pouring more fire into boyz. So, that's a niche.

TL

R
Dakkajets
Burnabombers
Painboyz
Banner Nobz
Nobz
Kommandoes
Burnas
Big/Mek Gunz

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jidmah wrote:
First post is still missing judgement on the following units:

Burna-Bommer
Wazbom Blastajet
Wartrakks/Buggies
Warbikers
Biker Nobz
Skorchas
Kaptin Badrukk (maybe consider running him without Flash Gits?)

"They all suck, never play them" is not something I will add to the first post.

Also a full list of FW units would be nice.

I've covered burna bomber above.

Warbikers - they're really fast, can be considered to have ok shooting for ork standards, are quite durable vs small arms fire but fold like wet paper vs d2+ weapons - especially imperial plasma. If not for that weakness, bikers would have been better. I've played vs an ork biker horde as tau and they did way better than i had expected. But the tau list really lacked multi-damage weapons outside of a couple fusion commanders and an overpriced ghostkeel. What's good about bikers is that they can be used alongside footslogging hordes. They'd probably be not as good as stormboyz cause they take away from redundancy of such lists. But IF you can avoid multi-damage weapons with bikers, they're good.

Wartrakks, warbuggies and skorchas. They should be 30% cheaper to become decent. But other than that, they're all basically bikers. Skorcha would have been better if it had 10' range on it's flamer so that it could outflank and burn things emidiately. All this units have basically the same niche. Move quick and try to tarpit stuff.

Other stuff i haven't tried or seen yet.

**Blackie**

koooaei wrote:

Warbikers - they're really fast, can be considered to have ok shooting for ork standards, are quite durable vs small arms fire but fold like wet paper vs d2+ weapons - especially imperial plasma. If not for that weakness, bikers would have been better. I've played vs an ork biker horde as tau and they did way better than i had expected. But the tau list really lacked multi-damage weapons outside of a couple fusion commanders and an overpriced ghostkeel. What's good about bikers is that they can be used alongside footslogging hordes. They'd probably be not as good as stormboyz cause they take away from redundancy of such lists. But IF you can avoid multi-damage weapons with bikers, they're good.

I agree they're not that terrible, but still yellow imho. If you run footslogging dudes those bikes are gonna receive all the multi-damage weapons in the opponent list dying turn 1. I think they can be decent in a full mechanized list with walkers and/or transports. They can decently soak anti infantry shots but die horribly to plasmas or better weapons.

**pismakron**

koooaei wrote:

- I don't understant the honor of being cyan that painboyz and banner nobz get. Especially footslogging painboyz and 79 ppm banner nobz. I can see a niche use of a biker painboy if you're desperate to make a biker horde army work somewhat (but you're probably still better off with just more bikers). There is Grotsnik - a bigger better painboy that is twice as tough, twice as killy and costs just a couple pts more. And there is almost no reason to take more than one painboy. Thus, i'd rate Painboyz...orange? Cause they're between yellow and red. If i had to choose one, i'd pick yellow. Their niche is occupied with Grotsnik that's better for like 95% of the lists. And banner nobz are just too expensive. You got to protect him and keep distance in mind and he only buffs choppiness while orks start lacking bodies by turn 3. I'd just spend this points on 13 more boyz, to be honest. Often, boy'z mellee damage output is allready enough without extra buffs.

I usually bring two painboyz (one being grotsnik), and I definately think they are worth it. I bring them even when I don't bring KFF-meks. The way I see it, they have earned their points back if they heal 5-6 wounds on characters, and made the same number of saves on boyz. And they almost always accomplish that. Also, they have great damage output, while being very fragile (not grotsnik). So they are great for popping rhinos and such. I think they are solid.

I would also rate Nobz as cyan, but I think people are down on them because of plasma-scions being such a big part of the meta (at least where I am playing). Plasma scions just wreck anything with W2, and it is not just Nobz that are hurting. Things like bikers, terminators, flesh hounds and primaris marines are all super fragile because of them. But of course ammo runts really help nobz out here. I wish warbikers could take ammo runts.

As for the banner nob, I think he is solid in any list but a greentide list where he is average. In mechanized lists and walker lists he is very good, and a lot of people run those lists.

Fourthly, I think the dark blue colour is annoying on a black background.

**Vineheart01**

if youre running 90+ boyz i dont see why you wouldnt add a painboy.
The odds of him not making his cost back are pretty low. Usually between the 3 30boy blobs he saves about 10-20boyz for me...which easily makes his price worth it. I actually rarely get to heal characters with him since most of the time my boss/mek/nobz just dont ever get hurt or die in 1 swoop (except Ghaz, only used him once so far but the dude's 4++ luck was intense that game)

Why would a bannernob be average in a greentide? Making 70-120 attacks hit on 2s doesnt sound average to me.

**skyfi**

I didn't see zhadsnark listed in OP. Thinking he's pretty up there in terms of quality

**Breng77**

skyfi wrote:
I didn't see zhadsnark listed in OP. Thinking he's pretty up there in terms of quality

List on page 1 does not include any FW units.

**JohnU**

Zhad is a house in every game I run him (which is almost every game now). 21" in the movement phase is no joke.

**skyfi**

I didn't realize first page didn't include FW. Whoops my bad! Is ther by intent?

Kill tank is quite good, as is garg squig. Not sold on big trukks myself yet. Hope we give analysis of FW stuff too!

Zhad has been a beast for me as well. Dies every game but. Or before causing a lot of wrecked vehicles and firepower directed at him though. I've been playing him with fully mek orks in rolla wagons with ard tops. Wagons zhad and a biker KFF push as a blob and can spread out once they hit enemy lines, while dakka trukks run amok and kill people off obj and claim them/create openings for boys via shooting. My dash gits got really lucky one game and squad of 6 killed 30 conscripts in one turn from rolling a 6 twice and getting two free rounds of shooting that turn. Using Cp to reroll this die is highly advised lol.

Supported by flash gits bustas and lootas all in trukks I'm having fun but I can tell it's going to have a hard time vs more competitive lists. Outside of my one psyker I can't deal any mortal wounds anywhere, making things like Magnus very scary to compete against. Considering trying to run a garg squig possibly, maybe even a couple kill tanks to work around this. That's 1000 points of transports though that macro weapons could erase quickly. Have worries about including them at all for that reason. Wagons seem safer investments because of macro weapons im afraid

**Breng77**

skyfi wrote:
I didn't realize first page didn't include FW. Whoops my bad! Is ther by intent?

Kill tank is quite good, as is garg squig. Not sold on big trukks myself yet. Hope we give analysis of FW stuff too!

Zhad has been a beast for me as well. Dies every game but. Or before causing a lot of wrecked vehicles and firepower directed at him though. I've been playing him with fully mek orks in rolla wagons with ard tops. Wagons zhad and a biker KFF push as a blob and can spread out once they hit enemy lines, while dakka trukks run amok and kill people off obj and claim them/create openings for boys via shooting. My dash gits got really lucky one game and squad of 6 killed 30 conscripts in one turn from rolling a 6 twice and getting two free rounds of shooting that turn. Using Cp to reroll this die is highly advised lol.

Supported by flash gits bustas and lootas all in trukks I'm having fun but I can tell it's going to have a hard time vs more competitive lists. Outside of my one psyker I can't deal any mortal wounds anywhere, making things like Magnus very scary to compete against. Considering trying to run a garg squig possibly, maybe even a couple kill tanks to work around this. That's 1000 points of transports though that macro weapons could erase quickly. Have worries about including them at all for that reason. Wagons seem safer investments because of macro weapons im afraid

I mean compared to the idex most FW stuff is good

**Vineheart01**

Ironically the main FW model i think isnt that awesome sounding is grot tanks, which is funny because they USED to be amazing.
Theyre actually quite pricy right now and still squishy as squishy can be. We didnt care before because they were pennies to field anyway.
Theyre 36-47pts each for a T5 4W model depending on the gun (Kommanda being more expensive since he can buy 2 guns). I'd rather pay slightly more and get Kanz because theyre just as shooty and can actually melee while the Grot Tanks cant.
Still debating if the Liftadroppa is any good. Leaning towards no though.

**Breng77**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Ironically the main FW model i think isnt that awesome sounding is grot tanks, which is funny because they USED to be amazing.
Theyre actually quite pricy right now and still squishy as squishy can be. We didnt care before because they were pennies to field anyway.
Theyre 36-47pts each for a T5 4W model depending on the gun (Kommanda being more expensive since he can buy 2 guns). I'd rather pay slightly more and get Kanz because theyre just as shooty and can actually melee while the Grot Tanks cant.
Still debating if the Liftadroppa is any good. Leaning towards no though.

Very true, Grot tanks need to be able to take two weapons, or take twin weapons. 1 Shot per 36-47 points is too much. I really feel the same way about Kans but at least they can kill stuff in melee.

**Jidmah**

skyfi wrote:
I didn't realize first page didn't include FW. Whoops my bad! Is ther by intent?

As previously stated, I currently don't have the time to write up a full review of everything, plus I have never found this kind of lists to be very useful, so I'd rather finish magnetizing my deff dreads than writing those.

If you post a decent review off all (or at least most) FW units, I will add it to the first post.
Note that the reviews are one-liners and should match the format of the first post.

@koooaei: Thanks for the summaries, I will have to shorten them to fit them in the first post though. Maybe later today.

**koooaei**

Jidmah wrote:

@koooaei: Thanks for the summaries, I will have to shorten them to fit them in the first post though. Maybe later today.

- Painboy - is used to heal up yor IC and mitigate some damage on the boyz with 6+++. Too expensive and there is Grotsnik - a bigger better painboy that is twice as tough, twice as killy and costs just a couple pts more.
- Banner Nob - adds more punch to whatever he's close to. +1 to hit in mellee is nice, however, he's pretty expensive and his aura range is just 3". He only adds to choppiness and in many cases it's just better to get more of the stuff he's supposed to buff. OK in larger games though cause you can only get a limited amount of models within chopping range.
- Nobz - quite choppy, reasonably priced and have a wide range of equipment options. Come stock with 4+ armor now and can take ammo runts that increase their durability - especially useful against multi-wound weapons. Nobz are the driving force of mech ork lists. And if not for the vehicles being overpriced and easy to kill, nobz would have been green.
- Kommandoes - are basically boyz with +1 to cover and ability to infiltrate. Feel somewhat overpriced and underperforming if you just look at their stats but their tactical implimentation is huge. They can appear anywhere any time you like. A min squad just costs 45 pts and for this cost you get a free nob and 2 burnas. They don't kill all that much but they supplement the force and help you score.
- Burnas - they're boyz with d3 shot flamers and ap2 in mellee. People have been given false expectations of them being green and that's why they're not too popular now. But burnas are kinda like more concentrated shootaboyz if you calculate their damage output. Ok for mech lists. And once again, if ork transports were better, burnas would also perform better.
Warbikers - really fast, can be considered to have decent shooting for ork standards, are quite durable vs small arms fire but fold like wet paper vs d2+ weapons - especially imperial plasma. If not for that weakness, bikers would have been better. If you want to utilise them to the max capacity, try to avoid multi-damage weapons and use them both in shooting and mellee.
Wartrakks, Warbuggies and Skorchas - they all are basically a couple bikers welded together resulting in a slight increase in durability and in decrease in damage output point-for-point. All this units have basically the same niche. Move quick and try to tarpit stuff.
- Big/Mek Gunz - artillery pieces operated by grots. They aren't great at shooting but they can score and distract an opponent from pouring more fire into boyz. So, that's a niche.
- Dakkajet - only ok because orks really lack efficient shooting and dakkajet is the closest to...almost having it. Can reliably put down a couple wounds a turn on meq. Can be quite useful when you NEED to tear through not too numerous bauble wrap or start taking down those heavy weapon squads on the other side of the board.
- Blitza bomber - supposed to blow expensive stuff away with mortal wound bombs but elites almost never run in squads of more than 5. Other than that, playable but is not likely to pay off point-wise. Has a niche of trying to rapidly kill something like devastators or dark reapers in cover.
- Burnabomber - worse blitza bomber. Not awful but they literally do the same thing but worse for ~the same amount of points.

**Jidmah**

Uh, the range of the banner aura is 6" in my book, only Keepin' Order is 3". Maybe that's why it is performing so badly for you?

I don't really think there is currently a reason to pick burnaz over shoota boyz. You can get 7 shoota boyz for every 3 burnaz, which means more wounds, range and only slightly less shooting and melee damage. In transport lists, I would never field them over tank bustaz which are way better glass cannons than them.
They are simply too expensive for what they do and how easy they are killed, plus they don't get a nob.
If it were 5 shootas for 3 burnaz, I'd field them.

On warbikers, even when the opponent doesn't aim his multi-damage weapons (because walkers or BW are present) they die really, really fast. Too fast for 27 points a piece.

**Vineheart01**

Banner aura is definitely 6"
Hes worth it. Easily the difference between your boys landing a ton of hits vs landing a good number.

**Jidmah**

Updated the OP, still missing a good list on FW stuff.

Also bolded all unit names to improve readability of blue.

**koooaei**

Yeah, 6" for banner nobz - no idea why i wrote 3. My point is that he is a bit too pricey. You often allready do enough if you get to combat in numbers. The main problem i've faced with ork hores is not the choppiness but speed and durability. If he also made boyz run fasta...

**Niiru**

Putting out some drafts for Forgeworld units. I have only had limited experience with these though so someone else should probably read through and make some alterations maybe. There's a couple units I wasn't able to make a decent opinion on too, but I put the titles in so people can add in the blanks.

Grot Tanks (yellow or red) - Nice fluffy units, but only one shot per ~40 points isn't great, even at Grot BS. Random movement is hit&miss for a fast attack slot too. Cheaper than Kanz, and about the same survivability, but Kanz can melee. Not much point having both in the same list. Usable as a shooting platform, especially in a pure Mek list, but not efficient.

Grot Mega Tank (yellow or red) - Another fluffy Grot unit, the bigger and more powerful Grot Tank. More survivable, and a lot more gunz, but still has random movement. Also has a 1/6 chance of not being able to shoot in a turn, which is a big drawback. If the 6 roll allowed it to fire twice, it would be a good (and fluffier) unit, but the 6 only gives +1 to BS, which is pretty lackluster considering the huge downside.

Squiggoth - **I'll leave this one to someone else to fill in. I want it to be good but I'm yet to test it in any way.**

Meka-Dread (Blue or light blue) - Possibly the best of the Ork walkers. Decent movement, tough stats, good rules. Rattler Kannon giving 2D6 shots is probably it's best loadout. Can either have a KFF (good for a Kan Wall list), or a Mega Charga giving it a free 8" move on a turn. KFF is the better option generally. Good value for it's points.

Lifta Wagon - **Never used to looked into this unit**

Big Trakk (Blue or Light Blue) - A halfway choice between a Trukk and a Battlewagon. More survivable than the trukk, with plenty of weapon options and a fast 14" movement. Supa-Skorcha is probably the best weapon choice - Heavy 4D3 S6 AP-2 Autohits at a huge 24inches, with no movement penatlies. The biggest, nastiest flamethrower in town. One of the few options that seems to be worth its points.

Battlewagon with Supa-Kannon (Blue) - Basically just an extra weapon option for the battlewagon, so maybe include this with the normal battlewagon entry. +30 points for a 2D6 shot S8 weapon at 60" range seems like ok value, but you lose a lot of transport capacity so would depend on your list.

Kill Tank (Blue or Light Blue) - A super-heavy for a hair less than 300 points. Tough and survivable. Both weapon options give a lot of Dakka. Can even transport units that can shoot, though only at BS6+. Lots of guns and 24 wounds make this pretty good for its low cost.

Chinork Warkopta (Yellow) - Very fast, and has some decent weapons, but no flying bonus and only T5 so will die fast. For some reason is no longer open-topped. Pretty expensive for a suicide unit.

Kustom-Stompa (Red) - More expensive than a regular Stompa. Not much in the way of better options. Can't see any reason why you'd use one.

Gargantuan Squiggoth - **I've heard good things about this, but I haven't used one myself, so I'll leave this to someone else to fill in hopefully.**