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Coh Magnussen wrote:

pismakron wrote:
The Shokk Attak Gun is one of the few things that I think perhaps ought to be removed from the game all together.

That would make me sad :(. I loves me some snotlings and that's the only remnant of them left in 40K it seems... plus, how can you not love the idea of teleporting a snotling INSIDE those crazy oomie's power armor?

There is nothing wrong with the model or the snotling transportation idea. I just don't like the concept of something that can shoot from across the board while it cannot itself be targeted in retaliation. Secondly, being a static artillery piece does not blend well with the Big Meks regular support functions. Thirdly, units that never moves from where they are deployed tends to lead to a boring game. Maybe they should change the SAG into an actual gretchin teleport device that can fling squads of grots right into CC from across the board. Or maybe let them commandeer enemy vehicles when enough grotlings has been tellyported aboard.

Coh Magnussen wrote:
Ok, I've typed this in and deleted it a half-dozen times, but...

I realize that I'm Johnny-come-lately, I have even less experience playing Orks than rvd, and less knowledge than basically anyone else on that thread.

But.

Can we please stop arguing over how good or bad Orks are as compared to other armies, and focus on how to best utilize the units we have? What synergizes well with this or that, and what doesn't?

What's the best way to field my grotz, 20 in a battlewagon or a blob of 30 footslogging?

If I'm going to field some outriders, are Wartrakks worth the extra points over Buggies? What about Skorchas? How about that chinork copta?

The best way to run Grotz? For me you're looking at min squads to sit and hide on objectives and to fill a Brigade/Battalion detachment. Don't invest in a 180 odd pt Battlewagon for them, they are objectively undeserving (unless you have a fluffy reason you want to throw them in there in which case - go wild).

People seem to have done relatively well with Trakks, Buggies and Skorchas. Generally they are considered equally useful from what I've gathered and I think they serve as a nice distraction unit that is relatively point's efficient. Whenever I run them I take Trakks over Buggies every time. 4 pts for an extra Wound and - 2" movement? Deal. Personally I like the idea of Skorchas because burn all da gits! They are less flexible but more killy than their Trakk and Buggy cousins.

The Chinork Kopta is currently massively under priced but I've no doubt GW will correct this mistake soon, I wouldn't go and buy 10 of them or anything just yet. It also has the Forge World price tax. If you have one - use it.

Thanks, English. I don't actually have any official GW or FW vehicles, I was planning to build something like the zeppelins from the tutorials section, and kit it out like a chinork kopta (since it seems to big to be a deffkopta, and too slow to be any of the jets or bommas).

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Coh Magnussen wrote:
Ok, I've typed this in and deleted it a half-dozen times, but...

I realize that I'm Johnny-come-lately, I have even less experience playing Orks than rvd, and less knowledge than basically anyone else on that thread.

But.

Can we please stop arguing over how good or bad Orks are as compared to other armies, and focus on how to best utilize the units we have? What synergizes well with this or that, and what doesn't?

What's the best way to field my grotz, 20 in a battlewagon or a blob of 30 footslogging?

If I'm going to field some outriders, are Wartrakks worth the extra points over Buggies? What about Skorchas? How about that chinork copta?

The best way to run Grotz? For me you're looking at min squads to sit and hide on objectives and to fill a Brigade/Battalion detachment. Don't invest in a 180 odd pt Battlewagon for them, they are objectively undeserving (unless you have a fluffy reason you want to throw them in there in which case - go wild).

I also use them to fill in the gaps to prevent deepstriking. That's actually very important this edition.

Can grot crew off mek or big gunz be used for that effectively, vitali, or does the requirement to stay with/near the gun prevent that?

i have seen codex armys artillery units gain a new rule where they need to take a moral check if not 6'in from the gun, but for now i park 5 guns around a big mek with KFF and 5 crew, then run the other 20 for the objectives and/or deep strike deny.

Coh Magnussen wrote:
Can grot crew off mek or big gunz be used for that effectively, vitali, or does the requirement to stay with/near the gun prevent that?

They are a unit, and therefore have to retain unit coherency. When the gun dies, or all the grots die, the unit is destroyed as per the rules, so not, they cannot leave the gun.

About the not trusting FLG: Oh I'm well aware by this point, that FLG(mostly Reece) thinks everything is good. However the clip I linked was factual information from ITC tournament stats.

About the posted tier list: I do not agree with the structure. You're missing half the armies by shoving them into 4th tier. If you actually spread them out, you see that orks are above average.

About "actual astra militarum": love how you mever fail to miss the point. Look at the IG, SM, CSM, ork, nids, etc army lists that are winning. Then look at chaos daemon armies:
Brimstones, changeling, maybe nurglings. Everything else is CSM/DG/TS. There is only 1 actual chaos daemons list that does OK. Nurgle daemons.however now everything got so much better, even they are barelly useable

 Vitali Advenil wrote:

Coh Magnussen wrote:
Can grot crew off mek or big gunz be used for that effectively, vitali, or does the requirement to stay with/near the gun prevent that?

They are a unit, and therefore have to retain unit coherency. When the gun dies, or all the grots die, the unit is destroyed as per the rules, so not, they cannot leave the gun.

This is not true. You set them up at the same time but they become separate units after that. You can leave a 5-man crew with 5 guns and have fun running around with the other 4x 5-man crews.

Ashkayel wrote:

 Vitali Advenil wrote:

Coh Magnussen wrote:
Can grot crew off mek or big gunz be used for that effectively, vitali, or does the requirement to stay with/near the gun prevent that?

They are a unit, and therefore have to retain unit coherency. When the gun dies, or all the grots die, the unit is destroyed as per the rules, so not, they cannot leave the gun.

This is not true. You set them up at the same time but they become separate units after that. You can leave a 5-man crew with 5 guns and have fun running around with the other 4x 5-man crews.

Agreed. 5 guns and crew is 10 units total...note that in that case (as per current index rules) it only takes 1 of the grot crews to fire ALL of the guns...the other 20 grots (in 4 crews) can wander around freely.

I apologize sincerely if this has already been addressed. I searched but to no avail. Has anyone used a supreme command detach so you can get 5 weirdboyz to use as a somewhat deep-striking ork army in conjunction with another detachment type?

 Boris420 wrote:
I apologize sincerely if this has already been addressed. I searched but to no avail. Has anyone used a supreme command detach so you can get 5 weirdboyz to use as a somewhat deep-striking ork army in conjunction with another detachment type?

I have run 5-6 Weirdboyz before, but I don't see where the deep-strike comes into it. Regards

pismakron wrote:

 Boris420 wrote:
I apologize sincerely if this has already been addressed. I searched but to no avail. Has anyone used a supreme command detach so you can get 5 weirdboyz to use as a somewhat deep-striking ork army in conjunction with another detachment type?

I have run 5-6 Weirdboyz before, but I don't see where the deep-strike comes into it. Regards

I think he means with regards using da jump as a pseudo deep striking army.

Boris the best lists have 5-6 weirdboyz in a trukk spamming smite to all hell. Lots of people use the supreme command detachment to get them in the a list legally.

You can only cast one Da Jump per turn in matched play.

Coh Magnussen wrote:
Can we please stop arguing over how good or bad Orks are as compared to other armies, and focus on how to best utilize the units we have? What synergizes well with this or that, and what doesn't?

Yes! Please. Stay on topic please.

My contribution to this:

I had a game yesterday since my eldar arch-nemesis and me found some time for a game and be both agreed on keeping the lists as elite as possible to finish the game within two or three hours. I knew I wasn't going to win the game anyways, so I took some rarely used units for a spin.

My List:


His list (he kindly switched his Alaitoc trait for Ulthwe):


We got the frontline assault deployment and were playing communications lost (you get one objective card per mission objective you're holding).
His fire prisms are sitting one in each corner, everything else is deployed in or around a ruin in the center of his deployment area, with the Autarch sitting on first floor. I deploy big guns to my three objectives, the SAG goes on top of a ruin with a kannon to screen it, one lobba is hidden behind a huge LOS blocking mountain, nob bikers are hidden behind battlewagon, trukks are deployed one on each flank.
He wins the roll-off and goes first, fails to debuff the bikers, smites and shoots his fire prisms, wraith lords and wraithfigher all into the battlewagon, killing it. One mortal wound goes to Grotznik, he saves it. Scatter lasers kill 4 burna boyz, Autarch shoot 3 wounds off the KFF mek.

On my turn, trukks move forward, use DakkaDakkaDakka! on one unit of tank bustaz and shoot one fire prism for 6 damage, he saves 3 of those with Ultwe 6+++. Squigs go towards the wraith lord (can't a target fire prisms), one misses, the other does 5 damage, two of those saved. The other trukk does the same thing minus stratagem on the other side of the table, resulting in 3 damage to the fire prism and two to the wraith lord. One cannon blows another two damage of one prism, the other two miss. Lobbas don't do gak, burnas advance and flame one of the hemlocks for 2 damage. KFF mek and doc follow them. Warboss and nob bikers drive into cover and shoot one of the wraithlords for 3 damage, since nothing else is in range. SAG does 2 damage to the other fire prism, leaving two of them a 6 wounds, just above degration.

His turn. Autarch hits the KFF mek with another missile and kills it. He uses the stratagem to link his fire prisms, re-rolling all to-hit and to-wound rolls and blasting away at the now visible nob bikers, putting13 S9 AP-4 d3 hits into them, plus Wraithlord Brightlances and Scatter Lasers, cause just barely enough damage to kill them all. While it sucked that 250 points were simply deleted, it took some impressive firepower to do so. One hemlock smites a unit of kannon gunners to kill it and destroys a lobba by shooting. The other hemlock fails his smite and shoots a kannon crew dead. He scores 1 VP for killing units in at least two phases and 1 VP for killing a character.

My turn 2, trukks move into grenade/charge range for fire prisms, burna boyz and dok move towards wraithlord A and warboss towards wraithlord B. The lobba-less gretchin crew fails an advance roll to get objective 3, but the remaining kannon crew can conga-line to it with a 9" advance. The first mob of tank bustaz throw a tank busta bomb and rokkits into a fire prism, which manages to leave the damn tank standing with 1 wound left. The other fire prism manages to make spectacular 4 6++ rolls and is down to 5 wounds now. I re-roll a one for SAG shoots into a six and it does a spectacular 5 wounds to wraithlord B. Kannon shot gets saved by wraithlord B, skorchas ping another wound off him, lobba does one more damage. Warboss shooting and big shootas do nothing.
Charge time! Trukk charges and nominates one fire fireprism and the wraithlord B , which is 9" away as targets. The fire prism manages to overwatch with a single lance shot, blowing a whooping 6 damage off the trukk, the shuriken catapult does another one, wraithlord overwatch misses. With 10" charge range I decide to charge the wraithlord to prevent him from overwatching my warboss. The other trukk charges wraithlord A and a fireprism locking both in combat - or so I thought. Bruna boyz charge wraithlord A, doc does a 11" charge (he needed 10") to join the fray, warboss charges wraithlord B.
In combat, the damaged trukk manages to do one damage to wraithlord B, the warboss does 2 mortal wounds and two more from the killchoppa, but one is saved with 6+++, leaving it at 1 life. The wraithlord strikes back, hits the warboss twice despite hitting on 5+, rolls double-sixes for damage and slays the warlord. Buna boyz don't do jack against wraithlord A, Grotznik punches him for 5 damage, two saved again, the trukk does no damage to the fire prism with his wreckin' ball. Wraithlord A destroys the trukk with his sword, no damage to tank bustaz.
I score 1 VP for holding objective 3.

Turn 3 the fire prism falls back, wraithlord A falls back with stratagem to allow him to shoot and charge. All burna boyz but one are killed by a hemlock, Autarch, scatter lasers and 2d6 profile from one fire prism. Tank bustaz from the destroyed trukk are wiped out by another fire prism and wraithlord A. Hemlock smites the last kannon dead and fails to hurt Grotznik with his shooting. Wraithlord A charges Grotznik to kill him, but fails, Grotznik does 2 damage to him. Wraithlord B destroys the trukk he was fighting. Moral kills last burna boy. Eldar score 1 VP for objective 5 and 1 VP for making a unit fail moral. 6:1 for him now.

In my turn, Grotznik falls back towards the Autarch and charges him because he is one scalpel short of a med pack. Lobba kills the fire prism at one wound. SAG blows away wraithlord B, tank bustaz blow up a war walker, charge the other and the Autarch.
Eldar use -1 to hit stratagem on Autarch (-2 with relic), so Grotznik doesn't hit him at all, Autarch kills Grotsnik with his PF. Tank bustaz do some damage to the remaining war walker, who stomps one of them into the ground. 4 Tankbustas outnumber Autarch and the Warwalker on objective 5, so I get to score that for 1 VP

Turn 4 the scatter laser warwalker and Autarch wipe out the tank bustas, one hemlock smites the grot crew screening the SAG and then kills it with shooting, the other kills the lobba crew, fire prisms kill the remaining two grot crews running about. I am wiped out, game ends at 7:2 VP.

So, don't try this at home kids.

My takeaways:
- Wow, burna boyz are terrible. Someone called them "concentrated boyz" in this thread - in my experience they are just less, more expensive boyz. Their shooting is marginal (less range than sluggas), their assault is weak since they only have 2 attacks and no nob and AP-2 is not nearly as good as it sounds since they only do 1 damage. Boyz with a PK nob are simply always better and I will never use them again until they get an update. For 210 point, I should just have fielded a unit of nobz.
- Nob bikers are slightly better than expected. There was no good target for their shooting, but they weathered almost 1000 points of dedicated anti-tank before going down. A lot of damage was lost due to overkill of single models. They definitely compare well to nobz in battlewagons, but those aren't that great in the first place.
- SAG was surprisingly good for just 80 points. Due to AP-5 nothing gets to takes armor saves ever, and it reliably hurt both T8 and T7 models. Spending CPs for low shots is mandatory though. It's not worse at shooting than the same points spent on lootaz, but (obviously) worse than a KMK. With some grot gunners hanging around the mek, no one will bother shooting him. So, if you need another HQ and don't have any more weird boyz, it's an ok choice.
- Dakka stratagem did very little even on tank bustas. One turn I rolled 3 sixes, followed by another two hits. AP-2 mean 5+ saves for vehicles, some more shots fail to wound on 3+ and in the end some more were saved due to that annoying Ulthwe craftworld trait. I barely got two additional damage for 2 CP over the course of two turns.
- Minimum tank bustaz in trukks are actually very good, provided you have other stuff that your opponent wants to shoot with big guns. Definitely better than using open topped battlewagons.
- 'eadwompa's killchoppa is not great against vehicles.
- Being forced to ignore hemlock wraithfighters sucks.

Nice report. Not actually too bad a performance given your list. SAG a surprising impact, good to see. I love em but mine have been shelved a little while after neglible results from them. Price drop will have em back out for some occasional fun, Mek Gunz nearby for screens and repair. #praysforgitfinda

Awesome thanks for clearing that up for me! Darn I wish da jump could be used multiple times in one turn

A question -- why minimum units of tankbusters in the trukk and leaving it with 5 empty seats?

My list of "I must build!" is rapidly growing, but like Cuz I was happy to see a SAG being effective... I really want to field one with my gunz and model his oiler as herding some snotlings to their doom glory.

Yea useful and good report. Lol @ not to bad a performance though, he was tabled and lost heavily on VPs. It couldn't be much worse, particularly when you think about how many Eldar units were left.

I'm surprised that you consider the Nob Bikers to have performed well. They didn't have any impact and were wiped in a single round? Your points would have been better spent on more Boyz, Bustas or even Warbikes I reckon. My main rival is an Ulthwe player too and I find Fire Prisms extremely obnoxious. No saves for our mega expensive Nob Bikers (even on the weakest, spread shot type) and I'm sure the second shot type does a flat 3 damage which is perfect for them? Also the fact that they can just fly out of combat is not fun.

 Jidmah wrote:

- Dakka stratagem did very little even on tank bustas. One turn I rolled 3 sixes, followed by another two hits. AP-2 mean 5+ saves for vehicles, some more shots fail to wound on 3+ and in the end some more were saved due to that annoying Ulthwe craftworld trait. I barely got two additional damage for 2 CP over the course of two turns.

The Dakka dakka stratagem needs roughly 10 Tankbustas before it really starts to shine. It's probably wasted on 5 man squads unless you roll like a god. With a 8 man squad I managed a decent amount of extra hits, so much so that the stratagem was definitely better than just a simple reroll stratagem (which I believe is considered a fair stratagem.)

Should you ever run full 15 Bustas you'll really want to use the stratagem.

DDD stratagem is just really bad. The "re-roll 1 die" is actually better IMO. As you can re-roll on the to-wound/damage roll when you actually need that little bit more damage. If there's anything worth complaining about - it's this. Even in best case scenarios you only get about 6 hits(boyz) or 4 hits(lootas) that STILL need to wound, get saved, etc. Complete waste.

Wow I'm shocked. I agree with rvd1ofakind. Even if you had 18 tankbustas you are only averaging 3 extra shots and 1 extra hit (1.5 against vehicles) in what world is that considered good?

This just further confirms my opinion on most of the units used. Burnas on paper sound good but suck horribly. No dakka and in CC they are weak. Nob bikers and bikers in general are trash and tank bustas are too expensive for what they do and the DDD strategy is worthless. I wrote off the SAG when the index dropped as I did with trukkz.

I'm really hoping the codex does something meaningful because I've about had it with the constant trash GW shoved down our throats.

Yup it is bad, though to be fair the best case is lootas that have been mobbed up to 25 strong (so an extra CP).

If you get 3 shots each(random)that is 75 shots, and it nets you 4 extra hits (boyz net about 3)

Or I guess the super realistic turn 4 loota shooting when you have mobbed up every turn and have a squad of 65 lootas, and then you got 3 shots for 195 shots you would still only get about 10 extra hits.

Your math is off. For 18 Tankbustas you get 3 extra shots for the first batch. Then you reroll all 1-4 meaning 12 dice which will generate 2 more shots. So 5 extra shots with rerolls to hit are going to probably give you about 3 extra hits (can't really be bothered to do the exact math).

I simulated (well rolled actual dice) several batches for 10 Tankbustas and got 2-3 extra hits fairly consistently. Of course YMMV because it's a dice game. But I'm not calling it complete garbage.

 Weazel wrote:
Your math is off. For 18 Tankbustas you get 3 extra shots for the first batch. Then you reroll all 1-4 meaning 12 dice which will generate 2 more shots. So 5 extra shots with rerolls to hit are going to probably give you about 3 extra hits (can't really be bothered to do the exact math).

I simulated (well rolled actual dice) several batches for 10 Tankbustas and got 2-3 extra hits fairly consistently. Of course YMMV because it's a dice game. But I'm not calling it complete garbage.

True I left that out. So let's do the averages against Vehicles, because you don't get rerolls Vs anything else.

18 Bustas on average get about 6 hits and 3 6s. With the rerolls you get 4 more hits and 2 more 6. So 5 extra shots which give you about 2-3 extra hits with rerolls against vehicles.

Still not worth it, especially since you need to use mob up and somehow walk those buggers across the field or buy them a BW

So I don't play orks, ( play nids mainly), but I love to play against them, I have a few for modeling purposes. After the codex drops I may start collecting. Looking at doing a Mechanized Blitzkrieg style list.

Has anyone tried this combo? It requires a warboss, a weirdboy, a mob of boyz, a nob with banner.
Weirdboy cast warpath on unit of boyz +1 attack
Warboss on bike for WAAAGH to allow Boyz to advance and charge.
Army rule already allows Re-roll charges
Boyz move 5" + d6 advance + 2d6 charege (rerollable)
Boyz base Attack 2 WS 3
Boyz 20+ unit get +1 attack, Choppas +1 attack
Nob with banner add +1 to hit in fight phase

Moving 5 + d6 + 2d6 with rerolls (8+9=17" avg)
Hitting on 2's with 5 (2+1+1+1) attacks per model for 30 guys; thats more attacks than Genestealers, but without the rend. 150 attacks is bound to do some damage. Plus you got your pistols you can shoot as well.

Thats pretty nasty combo, though it requires a lot of pieces.

Also, the Dakka dakka dakka, would have been better if its something like the Tyranid Single Minded Annihilation. 2 Cp and shoot twice.

I think the orcs and nids are fairly similar in style, in that they are meant to be horde based melee based armies with shooting support. I would imagine a lot of the clans (chapter tactics) would be similar. (like roll 3d6 take highest on advance, reroll 1 for hitting, wounding in Fight Phase, shooting phase.)

I think something that would give them a -1 to hit would certainly help them close in combat. Maybe a new Pysker spell that wierdboyz cast like a shroud ability.

I would imagine some reinforcement or regeneration unit stratagems as well to represent the endless tide.

Getting some hero/hq that can buff to hit and to wound in shooting might be helpful to push them into more competitive environment. Though, I think Orks are going to be meant to be played as a melee based army.

Some other stragagems that would help I think:

Move and advance a unit again but it cannot chare
Double the units advance dice roll
An ability that make a painboy kill a model to inspire fear, forcing them to move +1" (similar to nids AG).
Pick a unit fight again.

The problem with orcs seems to be their lack of speed for the boys so having stratagems that can get them into assault turn 1 like Nids, BA, and other melee based armies will definitely help.

I know a lot of people complain about shooting being BS5, and I get that, but I don't see GW doing a universal buff of all orcs to increase BS. They might do it for the HQ, Elites and what not, that or have units grant a +1 to hit bubble.

 Dynas wrote:
So I don't play orks, ( play nids mainly), but I love to play against them, I have a few for modeling purposes. After the codex drops I may start collecting. Looking at doing a Mechanized Blitzkrieg style list.

Has anyone tried this combo? It requires a warboss, a weirdboy, a mob of boyz, a nob with banner.
Weirdboy cast warpath on unit of boyz +1 attack
Warboss on bike for WAAAGH to allow Boyz to advance and charge.
Army rule already allows Re-roll charges
Boyz move 5" + d6 advance + 2d6 charege (rerollable)
Boyz base Attack 2 WS 3
Boyz 20+ unit get +1 attack, Choppas +1 attack
Nob with banner add +1 to hit in fight phase

Moving 5 + d6 + 2d6 with rerolls (8+9=17" avg)
Hitting on 2's with 5 (2+1+1+1) attacks per model for 30 guys; thats more attacks than Genestealers, but without the rend. 150 attacks is bound to do some damage. Plus you got your pistols you can shoot as well.

Thats pretty nasty combo, though it requires a lot of pieces.

Also, the Dakka dakka dakka, would have been better if its something like the Tyranid Single Minded Annihilation. 2 Cp and shoot twice.

I think the orcs and nids are fairly similar in style, in that they are meant to be horde based melee based armies with shooting support. I would imagine a lot of the clans (chapter tactics) would be similar. (like roll 3d6 take highest on advance, reroll 1 for hitting, wounding in Fight Phase, shooting phase.)

I think something that would give them a -1 to hit would certainly help them close in combat. Maybe a new Pysker spell that wierdboyz cast like a shroud ability.

I would imagine some reinforcement or regeneration unit stratagems as well to represent the endless tide.

Getting some hero/hq that can buff to hit and to wound in shooting might be helpful to push them into more competitive environment. Though, I think Orks are going to be meant to be played as a melee based army.

Some other stragagems that would help I think:

Move and advance a unit again but it cannot chare
Double the units advance dice roll
An ability that make a painboy kill a model to inspire fear, forcing them to move +1" (similar to nids AG).
Pick a unit fight again.

The problem with orcs seems to be their lack of speed for the boys so having stratagems that can get them into assault turn 1 like Nids, BA, and other melee based armies will definitely help.

I know a lot of people complain about shooting being BS5, and I get that, but I don't see GW doing a universal buff of all orcs to increase BS. They might do it for the HQ, Elites and what not, that or have units grant a +1 to hit bubble.

I don't think BS5+ overall is a problem, I think that the shooty specialist orks being bs 5+ while wearing tissue paper into battle is the problem. ork units like lootas probably should be bs4+ as they are long range specialists, and they should probably have a 4+ so they might survive being shot that or just drop their points by 2/3 and then they would be worth taking. 17 points for what amounts to a T4 model averaging 2 shots and getting 0.66 hits per turn that still need to damage at str 7 ap-1 D2. so on the most common army space marines we wound on 3's so 0.44 wounds average, and they save on a 4+ so lootas get... an average of .22 wounds on a space marine, so to average one kill on a tac marine (13 points) lootas take 85 points (5 lootas). assuming nobody shoots at the lootas and they shoot space marines and the game ends turn 5 they remove 65 points of space marines. In reality they will not perform that well even as they will be shot at, in cover they have a 5+ save and low leadership so they run. This is not even the least points efficient unit we have, just an example of what orks deal with.

on a positive note I had fun in a game using the new mob up with 10 boyz joining a mob of 30 boyz for 2 power claws in a 40 man unit. bike warbss and biker painboy to back them up advanced on a hammer and anvil deployment. weirdboy jumped the ork boyz up, warboss and painboy were close enough to daisy chain up buffs (with 40 not a problem) and while I command pointed one dice I got off a massive multicharge ... it was orks vs guard so it was still a huge loss by turn 3 but getting the one crazy charge was fun.

I just call out BS when I see itr. Be it ork viability or really bad stratagems.
The fact that the precedent is +1 to hit = 1CP and orks get... THAT... ugh...

Coh Magnussen wrote:
A question -- why minimum units of tankbusters in the trukk and leaving it with 5 empty seats?

My list of "I must build!" is rapidly growing, but like Cuz I was happy to see a SAG being effective... I really want to field one with my gunz and model his oiler as herding some snotlings to their doom glory.

Mostly because I didn't want them all on one trukk and I didn't have the points. If you replace burna boyz with boyz the additional points would go to tank bustas.

Dynas, the main problem about the super-buffed choppa boys is the impossibly of attacking on turn 1, and the unlikelyness of an attack on turn 2. By turn 3 they are mostly dead. No other army flat-out is dissalowed 2 full turns of attacking...just non-jumped choppa boys.