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Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






Hello,
So a quick question. Why is the Power Claw 25pts and the Power First now 20pts? They are the exact same weapon if I am not correct? They literally do the exact same thing!
I noticed this when adding up my Terminators and thinking the points must be wrong because the Power Claw on a Nob was more expensive.
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







Items don't necessarily have a flat cost in different armies anymore.

If I were to speculate you may be paying 5pts more for an Ork Power Klaw than a Space Marine Powerfist because you're getting it on S5 models with three Attacks instead of S4 models with two Attacks, sort of like how Space Marines are paying 25pts for a lascannon while the Guard are only paying 20 because the Marines have better Ballistic Skill.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






I'm guessing it's down to the sort of Orks that get power klaws getting more attacks in general than marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Beaten to it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/05 20:09:12


 
   
Made in us
Wicked Warp Spider





 AnomanderRake wrote:
Items don't necessarily have a flat cost in different armies anymore.

If I were to speculate you may be paying 5pts more for an Ork Power Klaw than a Space Marine Powerfist because you're getting it on S5 models with three Attacks instead of S4 models with two Attacks, sort of like how Space Marines are paying 25pts for a lascannon while the Guard are only paying 20 because the Marines have better Ballistic Skill.


Yes. BTW, they finally did it. I expect adjustments, like the low-cost plasma for the scion (BS 3+), even if I wish it stays in that way, but overall they did a good job.

Same with the units that now don't pay for the standard issue weapon they substitute for the special one. That is very good and fair, too.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/05 20:11:49


Generic characters disappearing? Elite units of your army losing options and customizations? No longer finding that motivation to convert?
Your army could suffer Post-Chapterhouse Stress Disorder (PCSD)! If you think that your army is suffering one or more of the aforementioned symptoms, call us at 789-666-1982 for a quick diagnosis! 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Stop comparing weapons and units in a vacuum between armies.

Just.Stop.It.

Thats a useless way of looking for balance.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/05 20:11:57


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






I love how most of you gave fair responses I didn't think of and then the last guy just yelled at me and didn't tell me anything.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/05 20:22:15


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Arashen, Segmentum Pacificus

Agreed with the above analysis. Also let's all chill with the balance/imbalance thing; keep it cordial and GW will undoubtedly switch things up if it gets too broken.

I saw with eyes then young, and this is my testament.
 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

 lolman1c wrote:
I love how most of you gave fair responses I didn't think of and then the last guy just yelled at me and didn't tell me anything.


You have to understand the context.

The same squad of like 10 people go around to every thread and complain about 8th ad nauseam.

There's not a day that goes by without a thread surfacing trying to complain about 8th because unit A in army B has higher stats than unit C in army D.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in gb
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!

 Galas wrote:
Stop comparing weapons and units in a vacuum between armies.

But what if we're fighting space battles?

Ghorros wrote:
The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
 Marmatag wrote:
All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

 lolman1c wrote:
I love how most of you gave fair responses I didn't think of and then the last guy just yelled at me and didn't tell me anything.


You are right. My hostility wasn't justified. I apologize for that.

 mrhappyface wrote:
 Galas wrote:
Stop comparing weapons and units in a vacuum between armies.

But what if we're fighting space battles?


Then probably we'll be playing Batltefeet Gothic

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/05 20:31:56


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in gb
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!

 Galas wrote:
 mrhappyface wrote:
 Galas wrote:
Stop comparing weapons and units in a vacuum between armies.

But what if we're fighting space battles?


Then probably we'll be playing Batltefeet Gothic

I want to give my frigates power klaws!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/05 20:36:27


Ghorros wrote:
The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
 Marmatag wrote:
All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







 Kaiyanwang wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
Items don't necessarily have a flat cost in different armies anymore.

If I were to speculate you may be paying 5pts more for an Ork Power Klaw than a Space Marine Powerfist because you're getting it on S5 models with three Attacks instead of S4 models with two Attacks, sort of like how Space Marines are paying 25pts for a lascannon while the Guard are only paying 20 because the Marines have better Ballistic Skill.


Yes. BTW, they finally did it. I expect adjustments, like the low-cost plasma for the scion (BS 3+), even if I wish it stays in that way, but overall they did a good job.

Same with the units that now don't pay for the standard issue weapon they substitute for the special one. That is very good and fair, too.


(...Sometimes. Not sure Windriders really needed to be paying 10pts for the twin shuriken catapult, I know scatterbikes were grotesquely overpowered and terrifying in 7th but when you're dumping 30pts base on one of them and someone comes along and says "Hey, you want to trade one shot for two Strength and double the range for 2pts?" who's going to say no?)

(And I'm really hoping the 17pt Dire Avengers were a typo because that one's just silly.)

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Items don't necessarily have a flat cost in different armies anymore.

If I were to speculate you may be paying 5pts more for an Ork Power Klaw than a Space Marine Powerfist because you're getting it on S5 models with three Attacks instead of S4 models with two Attacks, sort of like how Space Marines are paying 25pts for a lascannon while the Guard are only paying 20 because the Marines have better Ballistic Skill.


Yeah a power fist, is a power fist but a guardsman, marine, primus, or dreadnought.
However each gets a very different power from that weapon, and different base line to hit dice.

Its only fair a higher to hit and higher strength costs more. Example a higher to hit character, pays a small premium to have a powerfist over the baseline marine.
A guardsman, gets less millage from the fist, pays less.

A dreadnought hits like a absolute truck and pays for that hitting like a truck.

It makes sense..

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in us
Wicked Warp Spider





 AnomanderRake wrote:
 Kaiyanwang wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
Items don't necessarily have a flat cost in different armies anymore.

If I were to speculate you may be paying 5pts more for an Ork Power Klaw than a Space Marine Powerfist because you're getting it on S5 models with three Attacks instead of S4 models with two Attacks, sort of like how Space Marines are paying 25pts for a lascannon while the Guard are only paying 20 because the Marines have better Ballistic Skill.


Yes. BTW, they finally did it. I expect adjustments, like the low-cost plasma for the scion (BS 3+), even if I wish it stays in that way, but overall they did a good job.

Same with the units that now don't pay for the standard issue weapon they substitute for the special one. That is very good and fair, too.


(...Sometimes. Not sure Windriders really needed to be paying 10pts for the twin shuriken catapult, I know scatterbikes were grotesquely overpowered and terrifying in 7th but when you're dumping 30pts base on one of them and someone comes along and says "Hey, you want to trade one shot for two Strength and double the range for 2pts?" who's going to say no?)

(And I'm really hoping the 17pt Dire Avengers were a typo because that one's just silly.)


Fair enough, but remember that this is more in line with a "3rd edition feel" of 8th edition that many miss.
Infantry is reasonably costed, but you pay premium for more exotic stuff.
Also, I am afraid most of this will go out of the window with codices and pet armies... but a man can always dream.

Generic characters disappearing? Elite units of your army losing options and customizations? No longer finding that motivation to convert?
Your army could suffer Post-Chapterhouse Stress Disorder (PCSD)! If you think that your army is suffering one or more of the aforementioned symptoms, call us at 789-666-1982 for a quick diagnosis! 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





Denver, Colorado

 lolman1c wrote:
Hello,
So a quick question. Why is the Power Claw 25pts and the Power First now 20pts? They are the exact same weapon if I am not correct? They literally do the exact same thing!
I noticed this when adding up my Terminators and thinking the points must be wrong because the Power Claw on a Nob was more expensive.


I saw that too and was a little miffed, but then I realized that everything that can take a power klaw is now str 5. (or warbosses, who are str 6). I haven't studied it too extensively, but I think most marines are still str 4.

So, it's a str 10 power klaw for 25, or a str 8 power fist for 20. That's pretty fair in my book. Hell, a guard (st6) power fist is 10 points.

That being said, I'd like to know who playtested this edition that thought a fair price for a storm shield is 5 FRIGGING POINTS. Cheaper than a damned big shoota.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/06/06 21:40:49


"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by. 
   
 
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